4/11/09

Sales and Trading Internships - What do you do?

What do you do as a sales and trading intern?

Sales and trading internships are no different from other investment banking internships. There's a whole lot of grunt work in each, and that's to be expected of any finance internship. Because you lack any licenses and any substantial experience going in, you can't contribute much of substance to your firm. However, that doesn't mean you can't add value, especially in terms of cultivating relationships to help land a return offer. Here's @big unit to summarize what S&T interns do.

Primarily, you just listen, take notes, and update lists of clients, and occasionally do data entry work (sometimes you do simple things with Access, but mostly Excel). You typically are working closely with a couple of the more senior salespeople. You will try to record what products clients are interested in, rates your traders can get them at (usually a range, which is based on volatility etc. but it's pretty much just +-5% target price), and rates in which the clients will buy them.

Depending on the type of person your senior salesperson is, you may get to attend the "pitch" meeting. You'll meet multiple institutional clients while selling a new product in these meetings. Occasionally, you'll make a few powerpoint slides that'll be used in the meeting. Overall, it's a great experience. Meeting with and selling to high-level clients is invaluable practice for your career.

While you don't necessarily add direct value, you certainly make the lives of the employees much easier. If you can build a quality reputation within the firm, and if you can make yourself a desirable coworker, then you'll be in a great position to land a return offer. That should be the focus of your internship. Considering the competition when landing a full-time offer in S&T, along with the shrinkage of the industry and overall headcount, you absolutely need to cultivate good relationships and establish a reputation as a hard worker to land that FT offer.

This guide is going to illustrate the process - from networking and resume drops to the interviews themselves - of getting an S&T internship which will be your stepping stone to a FT offer.

Getting an S&T Internship

To have a shot at landing an S&T internship, you need to have some supporting internships to bolster your resume, among other things. There are a great deal of internships that do this:

  • Private wealth management
  • Private equity
  • Venture capital
  • Hedge fund
  • Investment banking (almost all IB internships pre-junior year are at boutiques)
  • Consulting

Any one of these, and these are not the only internships that lend pedigree, will tremendously help in getting your foot in the door, whether that be from networking, on-campus recruiting, or resume drops.

Really, any internship that demonstrates you have experience in the professional world will do, but the more relevant to S&T, the better. Bonus points if you can cultivate relationships with the people at the firm you're interning with and utilize those connections to get your foot into the S&T door.

So we've discussed reinforcing your resume with internships as a prerequisite to S&T internships, what comes next? The fact is, getting an S&T internship is pretty much the same process as getting any other investment banking internship.

First, you can't get anywhere without a polished resume. Beyond that, make sure you don't mess up the cover letter. If you have solid experience, a polished resume, and a cover letter that checks the box, then you've done everything right up to this point. If you go to a target or semi-target, you should have no problem networking at the very least.

Like it or not, the school you attend and its status in investment banking plays a huge role in landing interviews and getting the job. Target schools are heavily recruited by investment banks, and they have the distinct advantage of resume drops and on-campus recruiting. Additionally, your school will play a role in the interviewer, whether that effect is bad, good, or neutral depends on the interviewer(s). Non-target status appeals to some the same way people appreciate an underdog, but some see non-target status and dislike the uncertainty that comes with it opposed to the most prestigious and selective universities in the nation.

Resume Drops

Investment banks have a list of schools where they set up resume drops, these are known as a firm's core schools. You submit your resume and cover letter, and a few analysts and associates from the firm comb through all of them (typically 50-100) and choose 15-30 candidates to interview. @Marcus_Halberstram revealed his procedure for combing through resumes, and it contained plenty of wisdom to be utilized in your recruiting process.
Keep in mind that these are all ivy league kids he's reviewing. Most have a solid GPA coupled with decent experience. It's not exactly easy to cut 50 of 75 resumes when you're evaluating the cream of the crop. Here's how he eliminates the first 15:

  • Sub-3.4 GPA nets a ding, regardless of everything else. 3.4-3.5 gets extra consideration to see if something makes them well rounded (2+ senior level positions in clubs, varsity athletics, obvious interest in finance). If not, they also get dinged. Different analysts/associates have different GPA cutoffs, but 3.4 is a pretty typical one.
  • Any typos on the resume or cover letter
  • Poor formatting
  • I only dinged about 15... still need to ding another 30 to get to the 20+10 back-ups. I go back again, too many asians, too many guys, I narrow the field down a bit more. Ding another 5-10. Still need to cut another 20 resumes. Now I read the resumes a bit closer... finance case competitions, internships, club-involvement, does this resume tell me he/she wants to be a banker? I end up not finishing before our recruiting committee meeting, but I have starred the resumes I like (high GPA3.7+, some sort of past finance internship, varsity sports, and/or any other uniquely impressive/interesting aspect (e.q. interests: Thai slap boxing).

    Once @Marcus_Halberstram is further in the process, he looks at two things, among others, to make the decision easier.

    • Do they have an interest in finance? Priority number one. It doesn't matter if they're a 4.0 double major in math and chemistry, if they don't communicate an interest in finance then they get dinged. A couple of ways to convey this: case competitions, putting investing as an interest and being able to speak to it intelligently, investing club, etc.
    • Lack of interests outside working/studying: this one is completely self-explanatory. You're going to be working with these people for 80 hours a week, you want to convey yourself as an interesting person.

    So what puts you at an advantage in these resume drops? Here are some things that will help you develop a well-rounded profile as a candidate.

    • A high GPA: the higher the better, although understand that a very high GPA is itself a guarantee. Most importantly, you need to demonstrate...
    • An interest in finance:

      If you've never interned in finance and are a non-traditional major, you should be actively involved (pref. at a senior level) in the finance clubs, you should participate in finance/modeling training seminars sponsored by your school, you should have a section under interests with "Readings" or "Favorite Books" that have a finance tinge to them (more When Genius Failed or Fooled by Randomness or Barbarians at the Gate, less Monkey Business or Liars Poker)... Wall Street Journal, DealBook, FT, etc... I wouldn't advise adding that section if the rest of your resume already sells your finance interest... otherwise its overkill and you seem uninteresting and boringly uni-dimensional. You want to be well rounded.

    • A properly formatted resume: poorly formatted ones will get you auto dinged. In addition, consider getting your resume reviewed, it's worth guaranteeing that your resume isn't holding you back. WSO offers both a free and paid resume review service. Both will go a long way in improving your resume.
    • Minimalist cover letter: your cover letter isn't something that lands you the job, it's something that gets you dinged. The exception is in addressing glaring shortcomings on your resume.

Getting an Interview as a Non-Target

Target and semi-target students have the luxury of on-campus recruiting and resume drops, but how do non-target students get their foot in the door? The short answer: a lot of cold calling and cold emailing. Networking is your greatest power is a non-target, you get your foot in the door with hard fought connections.

There are four aspects of cold contacting. You need to understand each of these and utilize them in your networking efforts. This methodology, which is incredibly comprehensive and helpful in making your networking as efficacious as possible, is the brainchild of @Big_Red.

Tools

How to get contact information
Zoominfo/data.com are two great sites for getting phone numbers and emails. Both cost money but zoominfo has a free trial. If you don't want to shell out the money for that, then you can use the uniform format banks use (ex: [email protected]) to cold contact. You can find their formats on the web. This won't be as efficient, however, because you won't get access to their direct phone lines which is a helpful aspect of cold contacting.

Email tracking
The ability to track when/how many times your email was opened, if the email has been forwarded, and if any attachments have been clicked or opened is very telling of how effective your process is. It enables you to adjust accordingly. The product @Big_Red swears by is Yesware, which cost $15 per month. Again, this is a cost you can avoid altogether, but it's very helpful in the process. At the very least, try to circumvent the cost of contact gathering and email tracking through free software, there are probably some quality alternatives out there if you look.

Targets

Who do you hone your networking efforts on? Here's some insight on the matter from @dartzrip.

Contacting analysts / associates are probably the best point of contact coming from a non-target. They were most recently in your shoes and are really willing to stick their neck out for you if you can prove yourself to them. The way it seems, they're the main points of contact when it comes to recruiting at the non-target, and have significant pull.

Timing

First, the best time to contact someone is early on a Tuesday or Wednesday, although that's more subjective than everything else in this guide.

In sales, there's a term called cadence. Cadence is the set of steps you take when contacting them to encourage a response. The structure of your cadence should consist of the initial email and a follow-up email a week or two later if they never responded. While cold calling was a part of the originally suggested cadence, we disagree considering how busy investment bankers are. A call in the middle of the work day would be quite invasive and a quick way to get on a banker's nerves.

Move on

At any point in this process, if they contact you, take them off the cadence. Use Excel to track each person and which step of the process they are on.

Content

Cut to the chase, investment bankers are very stressed for their time.

Email
The goal of your email is to translate into an in-person meeting. That's how you build quality relationships and prove yourself to people who will vouch for you.

Your email should look something like this:

  • Intro: Explain who you are and why you're reaching out
  • Body: Explain why you want to work at firm X and why you're worth consideration. You establish your credibility not by saying that you're "hardworking and motivated," but with either a resume attached or solid objective examples in the body of your email. Additionally, if you have any common ground with the person (similar interest, same fraternity, etc.) make sure to mention that.
  • Close: Ask for either a call or a meeting.

    Avoid general asks such as "I would love to meet for a coffee or beer". Instead, do some research. Find a place near their office and make your request specific. I.e "I would be willing to meet up and buy you a beer. How does X bar on Thursday or Friday evening work?"

Overall, your email should be no longer than 4-5 sentences as one paragraph. Once you've crafted a template send it to yourself, check it out, view it on your phone, and make any adjustments as necessary

So there you have it, a guide for cold contacting as a non-target. Networking is your friend, in fact it's your greatest tool in obtaining an S&T internship. Wield it wisely, and remember that nothing replaces hard work. The best thing you could do for yourself is buckle down and get to networking right away. It's a scary beast at first, but once you start it becomes much more familiar and before you know it meeting with bankers will be a garden variety day for you.

The First Round Interview - S&T and Investment Banking

Here are two critical questions you'll almost invariably get asked in your interview and how to answer them, according to @Marcus_Halberstram.

  • What is an investment bank?
  • It's a financial institution that essentially creates markets by connecting buyers and sellers, and risk and capital. At a very high level, there is a sales and trading business and an investment banking business. And from what I understand, the investment banking division is structured into products (e.g. M&A, Leveraged Finance, ECM, DCM) and industries (e.g natural resources, consumer products, financial institutions).

  • Why this firm?
  • The answer should be well thought out and as much as possible unique to the bank. What I always did was network within that bank before my interview and regurgitate the same answers I got when I asked my contacts why they joined that bank. Most banks have a few one liners on why they are special... be smart and know how to use those to your advantage. DO NOT read off Goldman Sachs top 10 principles as the reasons you want to work at GS. Do use one of the less cheesy one of those to put in your own words a theme you can say you've observed that sets them apart and makes you want to work there over other banks.

    Ultimately, you have to prove a few things about yourself to do well in your first interview (@marcus_halberstram):

    • Prove you're smart, driven, and an over-achiever
    • Demonstrate your understanding in banking and why you're pursuing it
    • Explain why this specific firm
    • Prove you're a potential leader
    • Prove you're a fast learner and pay attention to detail
    • You are mature, reliable, and a hard worker

superday

It's superday, and you're ready to slay that interview. You feel comfortable answering technicals, why banking, why this bank, etc. But being too comfortable is very much so an affliction common to superdays. Kids got past the first round interview and they're no longer feeling the nerve necessary to keep them grounded. Remember, you want to come off as someone the interviewer is willing to work 80+ hours a week with. Nobody wants to work with a cocky jerk. The content of superday interviews are fairly similar to first round interviews, so if you're prepared for those (which you clearly are if you made it to superday), then you're in good shape.

How to Succeed as an S&T Intern

The work of S&T interns isn't exactly sophisticated, but that doesn't mean succeeding as an S&T intern is easy. Here are some do's and don'ts on succeeding as an S&T intern from @derivstrading.

Do's

  1. Don't mess up the lunch order. It seems simple enough, but it's entirely a matter of demonstrating reliability. Until you are trusted, you won't be assigned any tasks of significance. Trust starts with menial tasks like delivery.
  2. Don't ask simple questions that can be learned through google.

    When you learned the basic knowledge yourself you can actually have a discussion with the traders on how they run their books, for example what kind of div risk he is running, how he is hedging/managing it. From a traders perspective you will get a lot more points from a 30 min discussion about the persons book than being taught basic things you should have already learned.

  3. One source of office banter is sort of self-deprecating, cracking jokes at the expense of the company in any way. While it's good to get involved in office banter, don't make the mistake of cracking jokes at the company's expense, you're just an intern.
  4. Arrive early, and don't ever be the last one on the desk.
  5. Don't take a seat at the table during a meeting until you're sure every senior person is seated. It's a matter of etiquette that applies to pretty much anything.

Don'ts

  1. Stay humble, just as much a piece of general life advice as much it is intern advice.
  2. Talk to as many people as possible. First of all, you'll gaina better understanding of where you fit best. It'll also give you as much exposure to MDs as possible, which is a critical factor in determining whether you get a return offer. If you leave good impressions on the MDs, you'll be in a great spot to get a FT offer.
  3. Whatever you get taught during the day, review your notes before the next day and make sure you can answer questions on the topic: One of the things you are judged most on is how you pick up information. If you learn something, you should be able to answer questions on that stuff from then on. Its not university where you have an exam at the end and you just need to learn it before the day, but you need to be able to absorb information like a sponge. If a trader teaches you something, 10 minutes later you should be able to answer questions on the material.

Original Thread - What do Sales Interns Actually do?

Will be interning on Fixed Income, Sales desk at a BB. What would I actually be doing? (Note the desk was not my first choice, I assumed I was going to be trading but apparently they just randomly put me in sales). Thanks.

S&T Interview Course Here

Comments (59)

2/2/14

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Investment Banking Interview Course
4/11/09

Um yes, and...?

4/11/09

What he is implying is that you have no idea about the positions to which you applied.

Jack: They're all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard.
-30 Rock

4/11/09

You would think you would know a little bit about the position you applied to. I know you said you thought you'd be placed on a trading desk, but S&T go hand-in-hand and one would expect you know what S&T actually is before applying for the position.

You're going to be selling shit.

4/12/09
jimbrowngoU:

You would think you would know a little bit about the position you applied to. I know you said you thought you'd be placed on a trading desk, but S&T go hand-in-hand and one would expect you know what S&T actually is before applying for the position.

You're going to be selling shit.

You are utterly wortheless. First of all, you go to a f* non-target school. You have a job at a f* boutique. (visit, http://www.leveragedsellout.com/2005/09/the-boutique/)
Secondly, your idiocy is beyond me. Just take a look at this thread. It just shows you how big of a tool he is. He still can't get over with his 1320 SAT1 score: (visit, //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/retaking-the-sat) I can't believe you are shitting on others. F*, you are an amateur yourself. Tool:

jimbrowngoU:

It is my goal to get into a big-time bank. It has a bit to do with everything - prestige

Lastly, I am better than you cuz I have an offer from your dream company. I agree with you on this though, no, you prob won't get a job here.

jimbrowngoU:

Another question - I found a really good contact through my Alumni Community that is a Senior MD with @# PE. Would it be useful to try and leverage him into a contact for both @# PE and @# M&A? My thought on this is that I am unlikely to get into @# PE from my bank, but if I could lateral into @# M&A (I'd return back to a 1st year), I would be in a great position.

Also, what's with your GMAT score obsession/discrepancy?

On 4/7/09 at 1:35pm

jimbrowngoU:

I have a really high GMAT (760)

on 2/22/09 at 11:24am

jimbrowngoU:

I am studying for the GMAT right now because I know that when I do well (had a 650 test score with no practice) it at least proves that I am smart enough to do the work.

On 2/7/09 at 1:29pm

jimbrowngoU:

and a 750 GMAT

4/12/09
LondonE1:

While I suck cock in the village, I think about your dream company....

Really buddy?

4/12/09

For some unknown reason I am going to respond to London's post. I'll make it brief.

  1. If you're going to put enough effort forth to go through my 250+ posts to try and make me look like an "idiot," please make sure I actually posted what you're quoting. For example, I never once wrote that I was in the process of studying for the GMAT, nor would I have; I took it before I signed up on these forums and scored a 760 (as you quoted me saying).
  2. I am over the fact that I scored a 1320 on the SAT. In fact, I believe it was representative of my abilities when I was 16. Unfortunately, some headhunters and top PE firms would not be able to get over the 1320, which is where my concern lies - especially when my "abilities" are far greater than the 1320 indicates.
  3. Blackstone is a boutique. Based on your system, that would make you "utterly worthless" (which I will address).
  4. Blackstone is a great firm, and I'd love to do M&A there. But Blackstone Restructuring is far, far, far from my dream job. And Blackstone is far from my dream firm. So relax. It's nice that you got a summer offer from BX restructuring, but you probably should have stuck with the more traditional IB, especially because that is what you wanted to do all along (you couldn't get over the name). You also don't have a FT job there, and there's a solid chance you won't get an offer. Not only is the conversion rate at BX so-so, but there's a solid chance there is someone from BX restructuring that reads these forums and realizes what a tool you are. As soon as you slip that you were supposed to summer in London, you'll be dinged - they certainly won't want you back.
  5. I was recruited by multiple Ivies to play a sport but chose my "non target" because it combined a good athletic program with a good education (and it was closer to home). The opportunities are slightly less than what I would have gotten at an Ivy (though I probably got a better, more well-rounded education), but the athletic experience was quite a bit better. If I could go back to the September of my senior year when I chose where I went to school, I would make the same decision again.
  6. My GMAT posts were made within GMAT topics. Maybe that has something to do with why I made posts about my score?

I'm not sure where you get off calling me utterly worthless, but you, my friend, are an absolute fool. Your ability to strike others as an arrogant prick is stunning; I've never really spoken with someone who does it as well as you do (and this is over an internet forum - can't imagine what you're like in real life). Unfortunately for you, it is the kids who think they deserve the world and are "better than everyone else" that usually end up as failures. It's really nice that you went to a target and got a summer offer at a great firm in a great group, but do you think anyone will care when you get to the business world? They won't give a fuck if you're from Harvard or ITT Tech - to the people who own you, you're just that little bitch that makes their life easier. And it's easy to see that you're one of those kids with the belief that you're owed the world and you're better than everyone else. And that shit won't get you anywhere. Sure, it might be "hard work" that got you into your target school, and I'm sure you really bust your balls to get good grades (I'm pretty sure you can't get below a B- at an Ivy, where teachers have to scale to a B- average at my "non target" - but that's just because you're all so much smarter than we are). Just like I'm sure you worked really hard to get those interviews. It's the hard workers that make it buddy, not the douche bags who think they are superior because they go to an Ivy. Good luck.

4/12/09
jimbrowngoU:

you are a fucking dumb piece of shit London....

Sadly he is still working at our "dream company", going to our "dream school", while sucking on that massive cock.

4/11/09

Goddamn stop being such a jealous little bitch. I'm at a target with a high gpa because I'm smart and I worked hard. I know what S&T is, I know more about trading because that's where my interest was. However, since I've never worked in S&T, in the capacity of an intern, I have no idea what day-to-day work of a FI Sales intern consist of. How is this unreasonable?

Please provide help or stfu if you have nothing to contribute. Thanks.

4/11/09

Chill out dude, chances are the people you are yelling at and calling jealous are either employed in the field or have just as good qualifications as yourself (or both). No need to get angry.

Jack: They're all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard.
-30 Rock

4/11/09

Just read this thread, and if you have any questions after that then ask:

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/sales-1

Jack: They're all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard.
-30 Rock

4/11/09

It's just this thread has 7 post already and not a single shred of advice. This is why I find it irritating. IF you are going to post, please post something of content. You included. Thanks.

2/2/14

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4/11/09

Wow. You are such a tool. I hope your desk sees you as what you are and gives you the boot. Good luck in sales. Thanks.

Jack: They're all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard.
-30 Rock

4/11/09

I have a FT job doing what I want to do. Jealous of you in your sales intern position? I don't think so. Have fun being someone's bitch for the summer.

The reason we assumed you didn't understand what one does in sales is because your initial post made it seem like you did not. I bet if you spent six minutes using the search function before posting, you would have had all the information you were looking for. Stop acting like an arrogant little prick, 85% of the kids on here go to targets and have high GPAs - you're nothing special.

4/11/09

pwned ahahahaha

BossMode

4/11/09

You won't be doing (and cannot do) much without a license. They may let you answer the phones but your time will most likely be spent sitting next to the sales people and jumping on their calls. You can also ask to sit by the traders as well. I interned on a Sales desk my junior summer and spent most of my time picking up breakfast/lunch, grabbing coffee, and shmoozing. You'll probably never have to pay for breakfast/lunch but don't ever think that you are too good to pick up food. I've heard some ridiculous stories of other desks who had interns that thought they were too good for that and they definitely did not get offers.

As far as day to day, get to know the people, ask intelligent questions and follow the market. Your job, on a fixed income desk, will be to know rates like the back of your hand. They won't expect much but if you are willing to learn and ask questions when they're free, you will go far.

Investment Banking Interview Course
4/11/09

Yo chuckiex, I actually interned in Sales at a BB.

Primarily, you just listen, take notes, and update lists of clients, and occasionally do data entry work (sometimes you do simple things with Access, but mostly Excel). You typically are working closely with a couple of the more senior sales people. You will try to record what products clients are interested in, rates your traders can get them at (usually a range, which is based on volatility etc. but its pretty much just +-5% target price), and rates in which the clients will buy them.

Depending on the type of sales person your senior person is, you might get the opportunity to travel to a 'pitch' meeting. This is when you meet with multiple institutional clients selling a new product. Occasionally, you have a derivative protect that protects a certain set of industries against a certain type of systematic risk (ironic...) and you make a few power point slides about some statistics.

Its a very interesting internship experience because you really do nothing important, but you actually end up making the lives of the people around you easier. I remember seeing a 1st year analyst who had been a sales person the summer before, who was already popular with a couple of the higher-up guys.

Overall its a good position, and you should def. work hard because especially in this environment FT offers will be extremely competitive. The caliber of the people that DO get offers for FT is extremely limited, and are probably very valuable for a future upswing. Basically, don't screw it up.

Also Sales is a really cool track, I'm surprised you managed to show interest in trading throughout the interview process and still got placed on a sales desk - seems like a screw up on their end. I would e-mail the people that e-mailed u about trying to switch back. It really isn't that hard.

As you can see on one of the above threads, I actually posted and asked questions on the Sales thread. I decided not to take FT offer (fortunately...).

4/11/09

big unit - Thanks... But can I just ask you what made you take a different direction?

4/12/09

still dont understand how a person from an ivy league school and high gpa is assumed to be able to sell shit better than others. I see no relation.

4/12/09
laxn103:

still dont understand how a person from an ivy league school and high gpa is assumed to be able to sell shit better than others. I see no relation.

You think a certain level of pedigree doesn't help put prospective clients at ease?

4/13/09
Emerging Alpha:
laxn103:

still dont understand how a person from an ivy league school and high gpa is assumed to be able to sell shit better than others. I see no relation.

You think a certain level of pedigree doesn't help put prospective clients at ease?

I guess in the beginning of your career, then its your track record that counts

4/12/09

London > b2 > Mark Klein MD > Dan Bush > Badam > dipset > Soulsearching

Wow we are building a wall of shame on WSO

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.

4/12/09

Good way to start off a lazy Sunday afternoon...

4/12/09

If banking doesn't work out for you London, you could always be a PI.

Jack: They're all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard.
-30 Rock

4/12/09
Revsly:

If banking doesn't work out for you London, you could always be a PI.

or a male nurse.....

(Kevin): "hows your portfolio doing"
Londone1: "I'd say strong to quite strong:

4/12/09

Trade4size are you serious bro?....I'm bout to set it off in this mahfucka....I got this killah up inside me i can't talk to my motha so i talk to my diary.

4/12/09

LondonE1, in the dark alley your credentials, education, and prestige don't matter... With your attitude you better be physically strong, otherwise one day someone will beat the living shit out of you :)

4/12/09

dipset - some of your posts just come off the wrong way, not sure if thats intentional like the above members in the hall of shame. Perhaps shame on me for grouping you with the rest.

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.

4/12/09

it's a bit embarrassing, but i had a wet dream about blackstone last night. particularly their restructuring group. god, working with bankrupt companies is so HOT! I also hear that their interns are WAY more hardcore than Navy SEALS

4/12/09

Why are so many people on this thread in such a bad mood? The Dow went up ~3% on the last day of trading, we should be in good spirits. Everyone needs to chill out.

4/13/09

Hey LondonE1, if I were you, I'd go ahead and clean all your post. You are SA at NYC Blackstone Restructuring, you got your offer on March 21st. All it takes for us is to call (212) 583-5000 (NYC office of Blackstone Group) and your ass will be out of the program in a second, HR loves doing this kind of stuff, that's what they get paid for.

4/13/09

Would they really rescind someone for that? His posts are generally rude and unhelpful but would that warrant such a harsh action? From what I've seen he hasn't done the major dealbreakers such as racist remarks, admitting of cheating/lying on resume, cursing/harassment, etc.

If anything he's helping his boutique by repeatedly stating the assumed fact that it is everyone's dream company, lol.

4/13/09

I am sure HR person would love to hear his remarks about non-target students, current analysts at boutiques, and general behavior. In fact I am sure they'll enjoy getting phone calls regarding one of their SAs who hasn't started the program yet. And finally, if one of them will go through all of hist past posts (generally HR loves that kind of stuff) he is done.

2/2/14

-

4/13/09

haha i love internet forums.

2/2/14

Stop being a fucking prick. Do you know how lucky you are? I spend my days in the BO printing out tax returns. I'd gladly switch spots with you. To get my financial news fix I listen to Bloomberg Radio. This is a fucking shame... quit your whining and appreciate the spot you got.

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?
2/2/14
Frabjous:

/rant on

Oh, and you should realize that I am not that interested in a return offer and only accepted the gig because I liked the MD...I am still quite serious about aiming for management consulting, or a couple of multinationals I like. Therefore, I don't feel the need to aim for a star performance, even though the feedback I've been getting is very good.

How should I spend my time? How can I exploit these remaining two months?

It's always important to be a star performer if you want anything resembling a competitive job in finance. These people you work with can either be an office full of excellent references that will sing your praises or one or two "positive" recommendations. Would you enthusiastically praise a kid's work if it was clear he didn't really give a fuck?

Most people don't like their jobs but they lack the balls, brains and discipline to get something better. Don't be one of them. Work your ass off! It's just two months and your career will be 40 years or 240 times that! Kick ass, take names and network. If you can't get any good contacts in consulting from these people, network with alumni but don't burn bridges.

No offense but from this posting, I think I'd have to pass you up for a job in favor of someone who is "hungry." Only you can control your attitude/outlook.

2/2/14

You don't mention if you are a senior or junior so we don't know if this is your first internship or what. That being said, this is a FI sales internship. What did you expect? It is not like they are going to give you their best clients for you to manage for the three months that you are there. This is how the business is. Sounds like they are treating you as a sales assistant.

If these guys are salesmen why don't you try and get them out at the bar. Honestly, you have a snotty attitude which probably rubs off at work. These guys want nothing to do with you which is pretty telling. If I were you I would 180 and start working hard and trying to befriend these people. Just because you have every intention of doing something else doesn't mean you should burn any bridges or anything.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

2/2/14

You know, I think both of you are right. I was whining excessively.
(in my defense, having that much free time allows me to actually write this on this forum without having the chance to think about it first).

With this premise,

@LIBOR: I feel for you, mate. I DO realize how lucky I am to have bloomberg and all the internal research / morning calls to serve me the interesting info on a dish. But even though I am lucky, I feel that I am still allowed a little rant here and there to blow off tension (everyone is). And it's just better to write it on an online forum than to saddle one of my friends with it.

@Victor: I understand your point, and really, you got me quite motivated there, but how can you possible judge a performance "star" if it only involves finite tasks which can be either done or not done?

I mean, matching trading tickets, contacting the relevant people in the bank to get something done and finding relevant research is something that you can't really screw up, unless you are a dunce, but you can't even do it exceptionally well.

80% of the times they tell me to read a new report or research, I have already read it (and I don't care for them not patting me in the head for that, but why the hell don't you point out something else interesting to read instead of just leaving me hanging for an hour?). Sorry, I am becoming rantiyish again.

Bottom line: i continue to do my "work" well and with a good attitude, but that's mostly because I am just coscientous and want to leave a good impression, not because I am hungry. Perhaps that's the problem. Also, the fact that the one who hired me and seemed the only one interested in challenging me is no longer around.

Now, I CAN suck it up and put a good face, mantain a good rapport with the people and get some additional connection to the consulting field (I already have several). I just feel that I will spend the rest of my team looking for interesting research and news.

Now, the monthly global outlook is out, so I have something to chew on. Later.

2/2/14

@Anthony

Yes, I am a junior and first internship. Which probably explains my unrealistic expectations. But as I said, I felt the need to get it out of my system.

The problem is, this the national branch and I am the only intern on the desk. The other (currently, just a couple) are all 28+ and go home/out of town immediately after work. Things should be better in a couple of weeks, as the team will triple in number with transferrals.

You make a lot of sense and I'll try to work on it.

2/2/14

No worries man. Everyone needs a rant. I've hated my job (BO fucking blows) since last July (I'm still in school btw). I rant all the time to my parents/girlfriend. Honestly, this site (and seeking alpha) have helped me get through the day. Ever notice how I post on nearly every topic... its because I am bored all day and have not had a real conversation (everyone in my office is a hardcore introvert) at my office, pretty much ever (hence coming on this site for social interaction lol). Just hang in there. Work sucks now, and your friends from home might be chilling getting high all day, but the next decade will be sweet (at least I hope, or all this hard work would blow) when you have some money and independence.

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?
2/2/14

No worries dude. Sales guys can be cocks. I would try and befriend them. If they are any good at selling then they know a shit load of people. These are the kind of dudes who will pick up a phone and get you in contact with someone if they like you.

Make friends with that structuring guy. There was a thread on here a little while about about structuring. Good field to be in.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

2/2/14
AnthonyD1982:

No worries dude. Sales guys can be cocks. I would try and befriend them. If they are any good at selling then they know a shit load of people. These are the kind of dudes who will pick up a phone and get you in contact with someone if they like you.

Make friends with that structuring guy. There was a thread on here a little while about about structuring. Good field to be in.

Yeah, I'd try to network/befriend your ass off. Sounds like that structuring guy could be a good mentor, and mentors are extremely important for breaking into the biz. If you can get these guys to like you, I can't tell you how valuable that will be. You never know where these guys will be in a year or two when you graduate, and if, maybe, one of the assistants/jr sales associates will have left by then and they need you to fill one of their seats. OR, maybe they can forward your resume around to their buddies at other shops if you earn their respect?

Just get to know the people a bit and see what you can do to help them out. You have a great opportunity in front of you.

2/2/14

Last summer there were times I felt like that. I'd just sit there and go on bloomberg... I'd try to be productive and come up with some trade ideas if the guys didn't have time and run it by the traders when they weren't busy. That might help you spend the time.

Jack: They're all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard.
-30 Rock

2/2/14

http://www.wittysparks.com/wp-content/uploads/2007...
And there you go.
You have an internship that many people on this forum would kill to have even though it's boring.
You have free time to take on more responsibility and presumably the brains to do it.
When they tell you to read something you already read, you have the opportunity to be more helpful and thus more valuable.

Your glass is more than half full.

Even though the work you're doing currently is grunt work, that doesn't mean you can't find ways to go above and beyond by asking for more work, asking your boss if their are any specific things he'd like to see done differently with whatever you're doing. Also, ask your boss or coworkers if the recommend any specific books/blogs to familiarize yourself with the "big picture." Just try to ask intelligent questions that have uncomplicated answers along those lines (recognizing no one wants to explain their daily routine to an intern).

Also, and this is key. DON'T MAKE STUPID MISTAKES AND ALWAYS DOUBLE/TRIPLE CHECK YOUR WORK. People usually relax and get a little lazy when they get comfortable after landing a position but you're still an intern so don't get careless.

There's other non verbal cues like not being on WSO or some other non-work related whenever someone walks by your desk. We have an intern who will not be getting an offer but doesn't know yet because he's constantly on FaceBook and AIM but still manages to make a careless mistake at least 2/3 times a week. Plus, he slouches like a man who's been gut-shot and won't even sit up straight when you're trying to have a conversation with him. I could go on but, there are some basic pointers.

No one will trust with work that requires REAL brains until you've proven yourself on the basic/grunt work. Ask anyone in any field.

Ask yourself, what would a shitty employee do? Then do the opposite of that. It takes effort but that separates the stars from the "okay" guys who will be unemployed in this shitty economy.

And your superiors will be more likely to help a STAR they value network with their contacts than a guy who's okay. Hope this helps.

2/2/14

I must say, the situation has drastically improved in the last days. Not because of a drastic change of attitude from me (well, I got out of that gloomy morning mood, of course), but because on the following day there was only one associate in the office and she only managed to make it trough the day (absurd amount of things to do) thanks to my help (mind you, I did nothing particularly difficult, but it was a lot of detailed stuff and I made no mistakes). I than discovered that the two interns before me were...not quick and not precise, to say the least. In any case, since then I've had constantly increasing responsibilities, which is good.

Still, I am quite sure that this job isn't my ideal for the long-medium turn. However, in addition to consulting, I am also eyeing structured products and any path that would lead to venture capital (the former because it's an interesting field and the later because of personal preference).

2/2/14

OP, I have been there. I went from a very analytical project orientated ER style internship to a sales/trading very basic internship for the simpler products. I wanted to try and see what the other side is like and sitting on a phone talking to clients all day or other BS I thought could teach and strengthen my sales skills.

Myself like you I was bored beyond belief 3 weeks in, I was absolutely killing it because the kid before me hardly knew excel or how exactly the sales/trading tickets hit the back office and why. So I expected more, but I learnt over time that Sales and less complicated traders expect a machine as an intern, they will not give you anything exciting to do because in reality there is none, the best/most exciting part of their job is pitching and maintaining clients. You will never get near that, bottom line.So I grew bored of it, I did though take the couple chances I had to make some tools/macros to really help one of my bosses something he still uses to today (he emailed months later when it crashed asking me to tell the new kid how to fix it). But I did grow bored and was not able to kill it everyday.

Now the lesson, at the end of the day. The internship was during a very interesting time in the markets, and hearing the head economist daily over the systems break stuff down was great. I was on the front lines seeing how credit got dried up and the BB banks started hoarding cash. But when the time finished the MD jerk of the desk, did not care for interns and said the ones who makes the least errors and do exactly (boring crap) he wanted was the ones he like'd. Other people in the bank were much more helpful, but I have no interest in sales whatsoever which is where most of their connections were.

I would say you should aim to keep killing it each day, and when you leave have the MD comparing you to every future intern, "you know X, he never made a mistake the guy was a machine". So try to find the positives, but face it you will not be using your analytical side during the next couple months.

4/13/09

haha i love internet forums.

2/2/14

I work on the trading floor in sales and trading.
I'll take someone who has been shat on, yelled at, served ungrateful customers, and with no education over anyone who has a 4.0 GPA from Yale and no sales or service experience. We like people who have been roughed up in a tough gig.

In the M&A, DCM, ECM, etc... part of the business it's a bit different. Do consider that if you were just fucking around one summer instead of working, they won't look too kindly on that either... You will be selling in M&A after 6 years on the job, so not really the skill they are looking for right away.

4/13/09

lol. London, don't stop. Please, you make my day, every day. It's the cretins like you who make forum trawling so much fun.

Just my 2c.

Just my 2c.

4/13/09

This "Day in the Life of a Sales Intern" account written by a past intern might be informative: http://www.gottamentor.com/viewBlog.aspx?b=75. Also, since you indicated that you are on a fixed income desk, this "Day in the Life of a Fixed Income Sales Intern" account written by a past intern might be informative: http://www.gottamentor.com/viewBlog.aspx?b=68.Good luck!

www.gottamentor.com

4/13/09
4/14/09

So is there a group coming together to make those anonymous phone calls to HR?

If you do, let us all know what happens.

4/14/09

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