Real bankers - Do you regret going into banking?

to do it again (I left recently), I would do something else (directly to HF, S&T, but not IBD), or maybe not finance at all

would never go into IBD if I could do it over again.

this makes me sad. is it really that horrifying? i feel like any professional career that pays big bucks and offers massive opportunities will be hard work and a "grind"

lawyers work their butts off in school for 3 years... case studies up the ass, work crappy jobs as a clerk for little pay, have to take the GRUELING BAR exam which is like 3 day test... and even then they will start off at age 25 making less than a first year analyst

doctors have to take the MCATs (shudder). they have to go to med school for another 4 years (i think?), and then residency for many years after that. i know someone doing residency rite now, working 90 hours a week, for like 15-20bucks an hour. this averages out to less than a first-year analyst's pay.

lets face it, if you have the skills and want the success/prestige, i-banking seems to be the way to go. you start off making much more money than a first-year in any other career, you have much less schooling if you want to become an associate (2 years of business school.. definitely the easiest in comparison to law and med schools), and the workload is comparable to any other professional career.

please tell me if im wrong

Would never go into IBD if I had the opportunity to do it all over agian.

Well, I haven't started yet (still in training) but I'm already feeling pangs of regret. The truth is I didn't know what the hell else I would have done, maybe consulting but I'm not sure I'm cut out for that. My situation is a little different because I don't plan on going to B-School so I don't have the luxury of switching later on.

If you don't mind working hard, doing some meaningless stuff, getting staffed at 5pm on Friday after you've done little all week, and grinding out the bad times (there are good times to) and making the personal sacrifice to speedy your way to future success, don't go into IBD. Bottom line - unless you inherit a lot of money or win the lottery and you want to be super successful etcc, sacrifice and go into ibanking for 2-3 years. Otherwise - Go into sales and trading.

anything, I thought the work was inane and that I was just a processor (well-paid) for two years (I also had it pretty good I am told b/c of the BB/ind group that I worked at compared to my peers at other shops). Also, I didn't and still don't respect the senior bankers as very intelligent or creative people, except for a few, as most are promoted for tenure and not intelligence. I knew all this going in (so it's my fault), you just don't believe it till you experience it. At least (as a %) the senior people at HF's and to a larger extent also in PE, are intelligent.

I'm a little surprised at the comments. I love many parts of my job and I definitely feel like I'm working with some of the smartest people (the exception being the new associate classes). Maybe I've been lucky, but I love the group I'm in and get along very well with the analysts in my group. I've been fortunate enough to be involved in some pretty rewarding work with a decent hit rate (haven't done a pitchbook in weeks). The trade-off for that is obviously your lifestyle. I average probably 1-2AM with the occassional 4-7AM night. I have a hard time understanding why people complain so much about the lifestyle when they expected it going in. Your compensation and opportunities after banking are more than worth the sacrifice. Another thing I like about my group is noone complains (unless someone has had it much worse than everyone else) because everyone has it equally bad. If I had to do it all over again, of course I would.

It's not just the lifestyle but the mind numbingly boring work you have to do. Fact of the matter is that if you're working 16-18 hours a day, you're not really using your brain for the most part. Shit, I haven't started yet but I'm already looking forward to transitioning to PE/HF in a year or two.

If you think your every day work in banking is boring, it's not like PE is going to be drastically some magic happy land where you get to do very different things. The work you do in PE is directly complimentary to IBD. Alot of people I know in PE had the same expectations as you, thinking it was going to be something new and different. Instead they were working just as hard during the day (and traveling more) and the work was just about the same only they missed banking because instead of working on one deal for six months, you got to work on 2 or 3 live deals at a time.

I know a couple who both work in PE at middle market funds with "good lifestyles" in terms of hours. They still work 6 days a week and see each other about once a week. PE isn't going to change your life, it is more stress than IBD and at times alot more "boring." You have to really enjoy the work you do to find either IBD or PE interesting, in my opinion...otherwise go do something else.

Gametheory,

Please tell me which parts of your job you love ? Is it flipping through pitchbooks at 3 am ? Staring at comps on a Saturday afternoon ? Or being yelled at by some dumbass Associate for formatting errors ?

I know guys in HF's working 8-5, I know guys in PE that work 50-60 hour weeks and love what they do. I agree that the lifestyle and quality of work at least inititally won't be too different, but there is a reason you see so many Bankers leaving for PE/HFs the first chance they get. My point is that I will make the transition carefully so as not to get shafted.

does nobody have any arguments against my point? read my post in this thread... the point is, EVERYBODY who wants to achieve a high level of success, opportunity, and salary after graduation will have to undergo at least a few years of being a bottom-of-the-barrel bitch and endure 90+ hour workweeks. the only difference is, budding lawyers and doctors dont get paid NEARLY as good as analysts do, nor can they enjoy a "high-class" lifestyle as early as analysts do.

im getting a little frustrated with all the bitching and moaning from analysts, because it is dejecting me from pursuing i-banking as a career...but the more i think of it, the more the complaints just arent warranted. again, im only a college student and i probably cant understand how hard it is, but following college it is the best possible career path you can take with the greatest exit ops. and only the best and brightest are hired regardless of how inane your ego believes your co-workers and managers are. deal with it. and prosper in the future. by the time youre 30, youll be making more money and working less than a doctor/lawyer. what more could you possibly want?

I love the fact that while you initially have to earn people's trust, people will reward you for good work by giving you more responsibility. No job is going to be perfect, and I never said banking was. Trust me, though, when I say having a terrible attitude about your work product will affect your work. If some "dumbass" associate gives you 20 comps to do over the weekend and they're relevant, just do them. Noone likes a whiner, because everyone's been there before. The most rewarding part of the job is when you get to the point where everyone on the deal team trusts you to build a model for a multibillion dollar LBO financing and you get to talk directly to associates on the buyside and walk them through building their models. Or when you do a good job and your group head sends you a personal email.

I'm not saying banking is the greatest job in the world, but it's definitely not the worst. People who whine and moan (especially people who haven't even started yet? Give me a break) about how bad the job is like it's a chore that needs to get done before they can move on to PE or HF like it's going to be some heavenly oasis are in for a serious reality check. My point is, banking is one of the best jobs I could have hoped for coming out as an undergrad. I learned a ton, got some great experience and got my ass kicked. Will I try and move to PE? Yeah, why not? But if I hate it, at least I can do something else after B-school (including going back to banking).

A lot of people I work with love what they do. They work hard and get a lot of satisfaction from their jobs. If all you're going to focus on are the negatives of a job, I guaruntee it will show up on your review.

I've done two summer Internships at reputed Banks on the Street. I think I know the job well enough to share my opinions on it. My point is that the bitching and moaning is for a reason: the job sucks and while we have ultimate responsibility because we knew exactly what we were getting into, there's nothing wrong with advising those still contemplating this career to think long and hard about it.

My advice to prospective analysts would be to go into consulting for a couple of years, go to B-School and then try to get into PE/HF etc. Or try getting into something else altogether, don't bow to peer pressure and think that just because you're not earning 6 figures straight out of UG that you're loser.

I had offers from Google and a REPE firm in Chicago but I wanted to stay in NYC so I guess I'm gonna be in Banking for at least the next couple of years.

I got a chance to talk to a lot of the outgoing analysts when I started. Each and every one of them loved their experience and wouldn't trade it for anything. Working as an intern is definitely not the same. You are not given the same level of responsibility and you are working towards a different goal. A summer is trying to survive the summer and come out with an offer. A FT person is laying the foundation for their career and establishing future contacts. The work is better, you are treated better, and it finally has a "purpose."

Right now, I love my job. My co-workers all love their jobs (with a couple exceptions). GameTheory got it right ... if you don't love your job you are going to suck at it (which leads to even more anger). This is true for any job, not just banking.

I am sorry, but the best and the brightest do not go into banking. The best and the brightest either start their own venture, get a PhD, join Google, or go directly to the buy side. Honestly, at my school, one did not need that high of a GPA to get a banking job at a BB, and a banking MD at a top five BB told me that the work would probably be too boring for me, even though they did give me an offer for M&A.

Aside from all of this, banking is probably the safest route to monetary success, but if one is willing to take a bit more risk, a lot of other career paths provide much more monetary success without the face time.

okay, that venture shot is sooooo contrived. You don't need to be "super duper smart" so start your own venture. Not everyone who goes to Harvard/ Stanford will start a google. I m sorry for the language, but what the FUCK, do people mean when they say the best start their own venture? My dad's friend owns Pete's Landscaping and Painting - a two man operation. Is that the type of ventures Harvard grad start? And please don't say Yahoo, google, facebook, cuz those are few and far in between.

P.S. I m sorry for the tone, but I am so fucking annoyed by people repeating the best people start their own venture, because it is simply not fucking true. I went to a top school and I know of only one kid who started his own "venture" and he is opening a bar.

Oh and how is working for google or microsoft more prestigious than working for Goldman, lehman, Ubs, or DB?

I accepted a job at a top BB. I am just not going to flatter myself by saying I am the best or the brightest even though I am definitely in the top of my class GPA-wise. The absolute smartest kids I know graduated a year early and went straight to PhD programs or will be joining the buy side directly.

Google is the Bell Labs of today. I cannot say much more on that.

you can really tell this board is mostly college students prior to working lol. The brightest kids are working in science and research.... the sell outs are doing banking/PE/Hedge fund/consulting because they want to make money. I think its more about what you really want to do, but the brightest are not doing finance or business.... I really wonder who writes on these boards with BS like "google and venture capitalists are the brightest" lol it just shows me how few people know about anything beyond the world of internet blogs/TV/and business publications.

To answer the top of this post..... investment banking is far from boring or meaningless. You learn a huge amount about what you work with as long as you are not a drone merely doing whats asked of you. Simply.... the idiots who just do comps don't lern anything because they arent capable of learning it.... these are the people who are nicely asked to leave after 2 years. The really smart people use the opportunity of being in a bank to learn about industries, products, financial considerations, business considerations, and everything there is to know about business/finance/markets.

Working ridiculous hours only sucks if you dislike what you do. Pretentious kids like the ones that post on this board will probably hate anything they do because thats just how they are. My advice is dont listen to some of the fools on this board.

good advice ndkid. that last paragraph made a lot of sense

if i could do it all over again... i wouldn't change a thing babe

This is an interesting conversation. For those of you that would have not gone into Ibanking out of undergrad, what career would you have pursued. I know one poster mentioned consulting, but what other jobs are attractive?

maybe S&T?

I'm just guessing, still a student currently.

You guys are comparing apples to oranges. How can you really compare the intellect of people in vastly different professions? Yeah, people who do science and research are smart. However, if that was my chosen profession and I spent all my time doing that, I'd be pretty good at it too.

The truth is the top people in every industry are all very bright and could all do each other's jobs if that is what they had chosen to do. A top banker could have been a top scientist and vice versa (in terms of mental capacity, not things such as 'oo he hates blood'). This is the very reason behind banks hiring ivy league students or top performers: All they have to do is mold them - they know they can do the work well.

One quick other thing: Just because other professions pay less doesn't make doctors and whomever more intelligent. I'd actual argue that that it makes them less intelligent because here they are working just as much and getting paid substantially less. Since when does payscale = intelligence?

This whole comparison is distracting from what the OP wanted to know, but as the person who started the comparison, I just want to give a rebuttal.

First of all, your last two sentences contradict each other. If payscale doesn't equal intelligence, then how can you call doctors less intelligent? This might surprise you, but unlike the majority of people on this board, money doesn't factor into their career/jobs. To each their own.

Secondly, you are assuming that people in science and engineering are good or look smart because they spent a lot of time doing it. This is not necessarily true.

Lastly, to echo what the others said, you are assuming that understanding cash flows or different statements is just as easy as learning gross anatomy or fluid mechanics. Any idiot with a calculator/excel and few formulas can do what the analyst does.

of the day, everyone has to make up their own mind. If you want to earn a lot, without too much risk, banking is a great place to start your career (and exit shortly thereafter). I come from a lineage of doctors, and I don't think I am smarter nor are they any smarter (within a small range). But I do think the doctors in my family A)actually believe in what they are doing and are constantly learning on the job in their profession B)actually making a difference in their communities. As to scientists and PHD's being smarter, I don't even think this is a debate. Most people in top numerical PHD programs could school most of the analysts up to MD's/Partners in IBD analytically (but not all, hate to generalize to much), but I don't think a top scientist could/would necessarily become a great or even good banker (although their are some that could), b/c the social skills/awareness that the top bankers need are just a different skillset than intellectual horsepower many scientists possess.

How do you guys feel about the fact that banking, unlike the other professions mentioned above, requires little thinking and mental ability? Banking is a job that just requires you to learn a few processes, which you learn during training, and just do them over and over again...any person could do the work that bankers do...the only reason that the banks tend to recruit at ivy league schools (or other prestigious schools) is because the industry is extremely elitist.

Investment banking is not a profession that requires intellect or creativity; it is a PROFESSIONAL career path, just like being a lawyer or a doctor. it's all laid out for you, leaving little room for innovation.

my story is as follows; i used to be an investment banking analyst and i stayed in it for about two years. i was so fed up with the job: MDs that are idiots, associates with huge inferiority complexes, pointless inane work, arrogance abound, constant iterations of books wasting hours upon hours of time, face-time, being a bitch to a client 24/7, etc etc etc. then one day i sat back and just realized, i studied hard, got into a great school, went to harvard for four years, and now i proofread pitch books all day and play around with excel 24/7, and i was absolutely ashamed of myself. it was pretty cathartic and i quit that day (although, it was after bonus, haha). instead of looking for another job, i started working on an idea that i had come up with while still banking (think online enterprise software), and then i sold it a year later for alot more money than i could ever make being a junior banker (think $1mm+). and most importantly, i had a blast building out my idea; being an entrepreneur has been and is the best experience i can possibly imagine, in terms of a career path. in only three months, i learned more than i did in 2 years of banking (and i worked the same 100 - 120 hours a week in those 2 years just as anyone else).

do i regret banking? no, because now i know what the corporate world is like, and i realized that it is great for people that need a formulaic structure to succeed, but i realized that's not me. it's not necessarily that i think i'm too good for it, but i just think i'm too smart for it, that's all. to each their own though, many people just feel that it is difficult to succeed without some type of a predefined, set out path to "success" (IB -> PE -> B-School -> more PE -> get meaningfully rich by the time you are 45 -> die from a heart attack at 55), and i think for those people, a traditional professional career is a very safe option. but honestly, i think most people are smart enough to do something else.

the reason i am writing all this is because one of my friends recently told me about this site, so i decided to check it out and see what people are saying about banking and whatnot these days. i felt like this was a thread that i had to respond to, given my personal experience. i think those of you that feel like you might be making a mis-step by going into banking, honestly you probably are; i hate to say it this way, and i'm sure many will say i am stupid, a dumbass, a liar, a wannabe, etc etc, which is fine, but i would love for someone to read this and honestly rethink their desired path in life.

for those of you who have even a slight interest in entrepreneurship, you might find more insight from others who are more eloquent than myself:

http://www.paulgraham.com/articles.html

Paul Graham has a great way of putting it all; would highly recommend reading some of his stuff if you are thinking about going out on your own (far less risky than most think).

i hope some of you really consider what i'm saying; ill end with this: one of the best days ever was coming into a meeting with bankers and being on the other side of the table, having them kiss my ass like none other, and im like 2/3rds their age. ridiculous!

Thanks a lot, rahking. Appreciate the perspective.