Why Does The World Hate Wall Street and Bankers

LReed
Rank: Senior Neanderthal | banana points 5,369

It seems that conservative and liberal pundits alike all use Investment Bankers as a symbol of greed and corruption to scapegoat for all of the countries woes. Did this all start after the housing crisis or has there always been hostility towards bankers?

I commonly hear journalists spout the ignorance that bankers add nothing to the economy and it is frustrating because I don't think they realize all of the work that bankers put in to allow American businesses to finance and grow their operations. Even on a smaller level, do these people realize that they would not be able to finance their cars and homes if it were not for the retail/consumer arm of big banks?

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Comments (152)

May 8, 2017

this is OP right now: http://i.imgur.com/WTDnnwE.gif

    • 7
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May 8, 2017

boils down to they hate us cus they aint us

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May 8, 2017

u mean to say "they hate us cuz they anus"

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May 8, 2017

Same reason geeds hate FratLords. Ask me if I give a fuck?

Go on, ask me, really.

    • 2
May 8, 2017

Do you give a fuck?

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Best Response
May 8, 2017

Take the amount of genders that exist, then subtract 2. That's how many fucks I give. 0, 0 fucks is how many I give.
crushes Natty and bangs a noobs mom for talking shit on X-Box live

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May 12, 2017

hahahhahahahaahh this might be the best exchange of comments ive ever seen on WSO

May 13, 2017

The people who hate WS are the ones who tend to think there are over 100 genders on the gender spectrum.

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May 15, 2017

Special fucking snowflakes...

Cheer up, Bateman. What's the matter? No shiatsu this morning?

May 8, 2017

If you've had the chance to grab drinks with a Senior Banker whose been in the industry for multiple generations (30-40+ years), they'll often share why if you broach the subject. This doesn't apply to everyone, but many bankers did a bang up job from the 1970's until now screwing the profession's reputation by simply acting like greedy assholes.

An MD I've been privy to drinking with described WallStreet firms in the 80's as such, "They were ripe with drugs, large personalities, and self-serving attitudes." Those three ingredients create a personality cocktail doesn't bode well for work place morality nor a well liked reputation...

I describe the reason why Bankers are hated as such (citing a recent example):
Fact 1A.) There is no proven relationship between how much money you make and how little friends you have.
Fact 1B.) There is a proven relationship between how many people you screw out of their life-savings with loans that were unknowingly sub-prime, and how little friends you have.

Unfortunately everyone in the industry is now thrust under the same umbrella, despite the fact that there are many positive ancillary benefits coming from the industry, such as: job creation, business proliferation, and the economy being kept in motion. Like life, we are as fast as our slowest runner... or most immoral in this case.

"A man can convince anyone he's somebody else, but never himself."

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May 8, 2017

So about the part about screwing people of life-savings with unknowingly sub-prime loans.

Is the idea generally that Big Banks overvalued shit sub-prime mortgage pools so they could over-leverage them and expand their balance sheets which then in turn fucked everyone really badly when it turned out that these shit sub-prime mortgages were, in fact, extremely overvalued - and then this caused people whose 401Ks were invested in said mortgage pool and MBS's to fall to the floor because the value of such Assets were naively over-valued to begin with? While this also caused other debts and securities to collapse in price because the buyers of such debts on behalf of others (big banks) were using margin, justified by the collateral value of overpriced MBS's to purchase such debts? When in reality the collapse in value of MBS's rendered the beholders of these massive amounts of securities and debts insolvent to actually cash them out when individual people needed to withdraw their savings in cash?

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May 8, 2017

It comes down to short-term profits vs long-term rewards. Subprime pays more in higher spreads in the short run but they cost unsophisticated consumers a lot in the process. People see this as predatory profit seeking, because things can get ugly like they did in the financial crisis, not to mention people with lack of knowledge fail to understand the terms they're signing on for in their mortgages.

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

"Typical candidates are those who attended a top-tier academic institution"
-Most job applications

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May 8, 2017

So basically subprime is better for short profits because due to the increased risk and adjustable rates they pay a higher interest rate, but if that increased risk leads to default it's the people whose savings were being lent to the unsophisticated consumers who will be fucked? In addition to the unsophisticated consumers themselves of course.

Sorry to be making yall teach me a history lesson on the crisis, just trying to understand the bigger picture.

May 8, 2017

Not quite. You should separate savings from lending. Savings generally get hurt during a recession. Sub-prime lending can get fucked at any point during the cycle--it just comes out of the bank's earnings. But they have mechanisms in place to keep their losses slim, such as foreclosure, which fucks the consumer out of his house and equity.

People don't like anything they view as preying on the weak (in this case, the unsophisticated consumer). But I think the above is also very correct, as well as there is the whole 'models and bottles' concept that gets portrayed in mainstream media, making bankers look like a bunch of animals that don't know what they're doing.

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

"Typical candidates are those who attended a top-tier academic institution"
-Most job applications

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May 8, 2017

The fundamental flaw, though, was that the underlying value of the asset would never go down in price. Who cares if the loan is issued 100% LTV if in a year you have significant equity?

May 8, 2017

@LReed . Many of those securities you describe, were overvalued because the rating agencies neglected their responsibility of marking them properly as a sub-prime investment. Those security packages were incorrectly rated A (and above) because of a fraudulent rating system. Furthermore, there were senior bankers who knew the mortgages being bundled into these CDO's were subprime and sold them as A rated packages regardless. Not to mention, many investors where unsophisticated with the process, and the banks were leveraging themselves 1000 / 1 on these mortgages because the housing market was supposed to be one of the more stable markets. All in all, it was driven by greed and a lust for profit that caused immoral practice from big banks, to the regulatory agencies, to even smaller banks who gave out "No Income" adjustable rate sub-prime mortgage loans to people who couldn't afford them.

"A man can convince anyone he's somebody else, but never himself."

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May 8, 2017

@Keyser Soze 123 @iBankedUp I appreciate yall.

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May 13, 2017

Props for a concise yet very informative summary!

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May 13, 2017

See: Puerto Rico

<span itemprop=name>Keyser Soze 123</span>:

@LReed . Many of those securities you describe, were overvalued because the rating agencies neglected their responsibility of marking them properly as a sub-prime investment. Those security packages were incorrectly rated A (and above) because of a fraudulent rating system. Furthermore, there were senior bankers who knew the mortgages being bundled into these CDO's were subprime and sold them as A rated packages regardless. Not to mention, many investors where unsophisticated with the process, and the banks were leveraging themselves 1000 / 1 on these mortgages because the housing market was supposed to be one of the more stable markets. All in all, it was driven by greed and a lust for profit that caused immoral practice from big banks, to the regulatory agencies, to even smaller banks who gave out "No Income" adjustable rate sub-prime mortgage loans to people who couldn't afford them.

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!

May 13, 2017

Is your account name related at all to Billions?

Work hard, work clean, & most of all do not give up.

May 14, 2017

No

"A man can convince anyone he's somebody else, but never himself."

May 15, 2017

Same.

'I'm jacked... JACKED TO THE TITS!!'

May 14, 2017

Billions references "Keyser Soze" but its originally from a 1995 crime film

"A man can convince anyone he's somebody else, but never himself."

May 14, 2017

The Usual Suspects is a fantastic film. Spacey's performances in TUS and Seven made me an huge fan of his. He plays a really good anti-hero (see him in House of Cards as Frank Underwood as well).

May 8, 2017

Fact is: Those people have no idea what they are talking about. It is the same with politicians like Bernie Sanders who would even fail a basic exam in macroeconomics. A eco freshman has probably a better understanding on how the economy works than this bastard. People don't even know what an Investment Banker does. Most Americans believe that they speculate with normal people savings to generate revenue similar like in the Wolf of Wall Street. They don't have a clue abut M&A, DCM, ECM, ....

I dare people to believe idiots like Bernie Sanders and to break up Wall Street banks, so that they can see how important those institutions are. There wouldn't be any major process possible without investment banks. No economic growth, nothing. At least not in the same pace and rates we saw. Helping companies to acquire others and to enable them access to capital is the fundamental of growth and innovation. A break up would cause higher unemployment and slower economic growth. Banks play a major role in the economy and the fact that there are some stories about some greedy individuals who were involved in criminal activities don't change shit.

Don't say this in a banking interview:

Which superhero would you be and why? I want to be like Robin Hood, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor - me.

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May 8, 2017

Well said. A lot of people think everyone in finance or banking is a stockbroker or works as a teller, it's funny that they don't even know what they claim to hate

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May 13, 2017

This. The majority of people have no idea what investment banks do or why they are important to the economy.

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May 14, 2017

A clear line must be drawn between the issue of whether Wall Street provides value to society (it undeniably does) and whether we should "believe idiots like Bernie Sanders and to break up Wall Street banks".

Presumably "break up Wall Street banks" refers to the systemically important financial institutions. I am genuinely interested in whether the benefits of having giant banks (global competitiveness, economies of scale, etc.) outweigh the risks (Too Big to Fail). Are there services that a smaller bank can't even come close to providing as well as a TBTF bank?

I am purely playing the Devil's advocate here when I ask: why couldn't smaller banks provide all the valuable services you have identified - "Helping companies to acquire others and to enable them access to capital is the fundamental of growth and innovation."?

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May 14, 2017

There are many reasons why big players are necessary. For example, JPM has a great balance sheet to finance deals. Only large banks like GS/MS/JPM can offer some kind of structured products. Only JPM can finance a 50bn deal in 2 months. Generally, large banks offer customers a wider range of products and services. Banks that are more diversified in their activities -- which is the case with most large banks -- generally pose less risk of failure. In the recent financial crisis roughly 450 small banks failed and some 200 small banks have yet to pay back their TARP assistance. How many of the big banks actually failed?

Banks like JPM, Citi, BoA also profit from economies of scale. A bank breakup might mean higher interest rates and fees on credit since you can't run 3 smaller banks for the same amount you need to run one big bank. Banks ultimately sell loans to aggregators such as Wells Fargo, U.S. Bank or JPM, which in turn put them into securities and sell them to investors. If banks aren't big enough to aggregate loans, it would have a negative impact on the flow of mortgage money (slower lending -> slower economic growth since spending is the main contributor to growth in the US). Big Banks don't just aggregate loans, they also invest in them. Smaller banks might be less able or willing to risk money this way, a change that could also mean waiting longer or paying more for mortgages. Besides that the biggest banks have a global presence. How do you want to advise a large US company who acquires a competitor in Europe? Do you really want large U.S. companies going to large foreign banks? You push the center of finance out of the U.S. and over to Europe. That's not good overall for the American economy, especially in a world that's becoming more globalized every day.

More important, we overlook the lessons of history. The Great Depression raged despite the fact that most banks were small. The 2008 crisis was easier to contain than the Great Depression because the Fed and the Treasury were able to get the heads of the large banks in a single room and strong-arm them into an agreement that ended the panic and restored lending.

Furthermore, no advocate of a breakup has come forward with a plan on how to do it. Large banks are global, complex, integrated institutions. Breaking them apart would be incredibly difficult, long and disruptive, and the banks might have to freeze loan growth during the process, slowing our economy even further.

Don't say this in a banking interview:

Which superhero would you be and why? I want to be like Robin Hood, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor - me.

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May 14, 2017

Dude, this reply is a godsend.

In the back of my mind, I always considered fragments of what you have said - I've just never been able to consolidate those thoughts and clearly articulate them.

May 8, 2017

Because in all honesty, how much value does a banker actually create?

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May 8, 2017

Enough that Snapchat will pay investment banks millions of dollars to advise them on how to go public.

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May 8, 2017

Few people understand economics..basic economics. Even fewer people understand finance.

May 8, 2017

People verbally hate rich people.
But instinctively love them.

Just imagine if the "refugees" were actually millionaires.
Societies have no problems with super wealthy immigrants.

But once you're poor/needy, you're "loved" and "welcomed" while avoided like the plague.

There's a great scene in the movie The Gambler (horrible movie, great scene) about "fuck you money".
Naturally people will never admit they love assholes.
But what we like and what we want are usually polar opposites. Think about your relationships.

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May 13, 2017

+1. Red Pilled to the core. I agree.

Work hard, work clean, & most of all do not give up.

May 13, 2017

Most people don't actually know what investment bankers do. I give a lot of lectures to engineering students, medical students, undergrads, etc on the basics of our financial and capital markets and I usually start the lecture with "Does anyone know what investment bankers do?" The answer is always "They take other people's money and invest it."

Lawyer turned VC, turned banker, turned VC and never leaving again.

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May 13, 2017

Without finance and banking we'd still live in stone age. Oh and only the weak need doctors.

May 13, 2017

People have been hating bankers since the day one of them made more money than other people.

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May 13, 2017

My 2 cents is that banking gets a bigger share of the pie than it deserves . And by deserve i mean to actual contribution to human development.
And that is because not a lot of people can understand that shitstorm named finance. The financial system is complicated and the discrepancy of information is what allows bankers to exploit it because without the service they provide thngs wouldnt be able to move.
But IB is the middleman and middlemen shouldnt take so big part of the pie. At least i think this is the opinion of the public hich knows what IB is etc

May 13, 2017

Athletes/Entertainers don't contribute much to human development but are paid fortunes. IB exists because there's clearly a big demand for it. End of the day it's supply/demand.

Work hard, work clean, & most of all do not give up.

May 14, 2017

Well if you want to be compared to atheletes who are literally living ads then go ahead. I dont.
Supply demand is one thing. Having the mental capacity to see how this whole thing could become more efficient is another. From what i've seen. Paying bankers enormous amounts of money doesnt ensure the efficiency of the markets.

May 14, 2017

I doubt if banker's salaries go down then the system will become "more efficient". Does C-suite deserve to be paid as highly as they are? Understand that the markets will never be perfectly efficient. Why? Because the market is reflective of human nature/decisions. If you think that paying less salaries will change that then maybe it's you that lacks the mental capacity to see the issue at it's core.

Work hard, work clean, & most of all do not give up.

May 14, 2017

Yeah, that does not cover the why should the bankers be paid so much. What do they actually contribute apart from from ensuring efficiency? And if efficiency cannot be reached then it's a point for my argument

May 15, 2017
  1. You haven't made an argument. You've stated a belief (that bankers are paid too much relative to their contribution to society) and offered no evidence or rationale to support it. Moreover, you haven't even asserted what you think the right level of compensation would be.
  2. What is supposed to be made more efficient? The market? That's not what bankers are paid to do. You're literally just throwing around nebulous comments and demanding everyone justify the current level of compensation paid to bankers with zero context.
  3. Why shouldn't the 'middle man' be paid more? Why doesn't it make sense that specialists would be compensated for helping clients navigate the complexities of the financial statement? Your standard would devalue all service industries and you've offered zero empirical justification for it.
  4. FWIW, it's pretty asinine to make an absurd hypothetical (e.g. reducing salaries across an entire industry) the crux of your argument, especially when the outcome is far from obvious.

Life's is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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May 19, 2017

I didn't know that I have to write a thesis on a forum so you don't get all rilled up with a different opinion. Also I do not see your arguments and I don't think that I am the only one who should defend their case.

What are the bankers paid to do then? Because If they are not paid to at least pathetically and egoistically ensure market efficiency then they are useless.

Why I should take the complexity as an assumption? The financial system is absolutely ridicusly complicated without any benefit for the society . So they navigate the people trough a complicated system of their own making. Tell me how is that not BSing

Salaries are the least of my concerns(while it is one of them) The profits of the financial sector are the problem. These money owed to be recycled into the economy through the financial system not accumulated into a couple of hands. To be honest, the inefficiency of this system regarding the societal progress is so obvious that its almost pretty self explanatory. Yes the biggest boom in human progression was made under this system but I BELIEVE and I don't have data for it that it its more attributed to the technological progress than how the money are distributed.

This is the best system we had. But that doesn't make it good

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May 19, 2017

Q: What are the bankers paid to do then? Because If they are not paid to at least pathetically and egoistically ensure market efficiency then they are useless.

A: Bankers are paid to do many, many things. The big ones are 1) Maximize value of their client in a sale / minimize cost of an acquisition, 2) optimize the amount and cost of capital to their clients seeking equity / debt financing, and 3) provide market-making services. To be absolutely explicit, - if bankers can achieve more success along any of these vectors by lowering market efficiency, they should and do. Individual bankers do not work for the market or society, but their services in aggregate benefit society.

Q: Why I should take the complexity as an assumption? The financial system is absolutely ridicusly complicated without any benefit for the society . So they navigate the people trough a complicated system of their own making. Tell me how is that not BSing

A: The complexity of the financial system benefits society in the sense that it provides more options both for investors and those seeking to raise capital. The financial system is complicated because it aggregates the preferences and predictions about the future of billions of individuals and allocates trillions of dollars, all of which is updated on a continuous basis. If you have an actionable vision of how to build financial market that is NOT complicated, let me know and I'll invest every dollar I have and more. If you have even an inkling of how to achieve that goal, I'll personally SB every comment you write till the end of time. Of course, you don't though, so I'm gonna continue on my merry way.

Gonna break this last chunk into bits because it annoyed me with it's idiocy:

The profits of the financial sector are the problem.These money owed to be recycled into the economy through the financial system not accumulated into a couple of hands.

a. That money is not owed to anyone, except the bankers who earned it in a legal transaction.
b. If there are not profits to be had in the financial system, there is no (private) financial system. If you think that would be better for society, I'd direct you to the shitty 99% of human history that precedes the creation of a functional financial system.
c. Also, if that's how you feel, why don't we outlaw profiting for tech companies (how dare that Zuckerberg guy have so much money accumulating in his hands!!!!).

Yes the biggest boom in human progression was made under this system but I BELIEVE and I don't have data for it that it its more attributed to the technological progress than how the money are distributed.

Great, so we agree that your argument ignores the available empirical data and is based solely on your unsupported person belief. I BELIEVE that policy decisions should be based on facts and data.

This is the best system we had. But that doesn't make it good
Unless you have an alternative system , not sure what your point is here.

(hint: keeping the same system but paying those operating it less is NOT a different system, it's just a more political palatable way of saying income redistribution)

I didn't know that I have to write a thesis on a forum so you don't get all rilled up with a different opinion. Also I do not see your arguments and I don't think that I am the only one who should defend their case.

1, I really doubt that the amount of you writing (well, unless you not writing is an option?) would have much of any impact on my annoyance. It was your (shitty) argument and (unsupported) conclusion that irritated me.

  1. I'll lay out the argument in digestible bits for you then big guy:
    a. Free markets, in general and in the long-run, allocate society resources most effectively.
    b. As a result, since companies are not forced to hire bankers and there a variety of bankers to choose from (which exist on a wide spectrum of quality & cost), the current level of banker compensation indicates that they provide a service of significant value to the average potential client.

For my defense, I offer you every single Econ 101 textbook ever fucking written and the outstanding level of human potential unlocked since the advent of the modern financial system.

Life's is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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Jun 8, 2017

Truth is that I tried to avoid these kind of answers you are giving me by giving you some question to think about but it seems you just rushed over them just to answer me and (seem?) more educated and smart than I am.
We wont be able to come into an understanding . Sorry

Bonus point. The whole financial system is supposed to be an efficient way allocating global resources. You don't need 2 PhDs to know that huge amounts of money sitting in an account don't really help anyone.
Also tell me why a fucking analyst in a BB making 100k+ a year for a job that a monkey could do is entitled to that salary instead of a young scientist or even a garbage man?

Maybe you should start reading more than just Econ 101 books.

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May 19, 2017

Truth is that I tried to avoid these kind of answers you are giving me by giving you some question to think about but it seems you just rushed over them just to answer me and (seem?) more educated and smart than I am.

Dude, what does this sentence even mean? Wanna explain the 'kind' of answers you're referring to and why you wanted to avoid them?

We wont be able to come into an understanding because the things I am addressing are more into the fundamental structure of the econ system and society and you just peck the surface of them.

I love that you give me shit for writing too much, then proceed to say I'm just 'pecking at the surface' and avoiding your 'fundamental' insights (btw, being anti-capitalism is hardly a novel position, unless you're a 16 year-old girl at her first party in college).

Bonus point. The whole financial system is supposed to be an efficient way allocating global resources. You don't need 2 PhDs to know that huge amounts of money sitting in an account don't really help anyone.

Think about your position here - you're arguing that the current financial system leads to under-investment because the bankers it enriches just sit on the cash?

(pay attention here)

The fractional banking system is almost universally recognized as the single greatest factor increasing the money supply and capital investment.

In addition, there TONS of other rich people sitting on MORE cash - why do you think bankers are such a special case?????

Also tell me why a fucking analyst in a BB making 100k+ a year for a job that a monkey could do is entitled to that salary instead of a young scientist or even a garbage man?

a. They're not entitled to it. They earn it.
b. Because they work harder for more hours doing that monkey shit.
c. Because banking services are more price inelastic than garbage collecting etc.

Dude. For real, you should get a hobby or something. Maybe you should start reading more than just Econ 101 books.

Yea, I should be more like you and spend my time writing inarticulate shit on the internet complaining about other people being paid 'too much'.

Life's is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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May 20, 2017

"a. They're not entitled to it. They earn it.
b. Because they work harder for more hours doing that monkey shit.
c. Because banking services are more price inelastic than garbage collecting etc."

These points here are exactly your problem. I never said that im against capitalism , just that this kind of capitalism is bad. The thing is that the change is going to come and then people like you, who are doing close circuit loops in their logic are gonna wonder what and why.

"The fractional banking system is almost universally recognized as the single greatest factor increasing the money supply and capital investment. " this is closed circuit logic.

Well ofc in WSO where most of the pople are concerned with whether or not they should suicide because the interview with the BB went sideways a critisism on the current capitalistic system is going to hit a wall. I don't enjoy the MS but they were expected.

Sorry for wasting your time, you probably didn't get out anything from the convo.

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May 20, 2017

just that this kind of capitalism is bad. The thing is that the change is going to come and then people like you, who are doing close circuit loops in their logic are gonna wonder what and why.

What kind of capitalism? What's the alternative variety of capitalism you're proposing?

"The fractional banking system is almost universally recognized as the single greatest factor increasing the money supply and capital investment. " this is closed circuit logic.

How so? You claim bankers get paid too much, resulting in that money not being used productively. I point out that the modern banking system has vastly increased the supply of capital available for investment. Walk me through your position if you think I missed something.

Well ofc in WSO where most of the pople are concerned with whether or not they should suicide because the interview with the BB went sideways a critisism on the current capitalistic system is going to hit a wall. I don't enjoy the MS but they were expected.Sorry for wasting your time, you probably didn't get out anything from the convo.

Well, since you responded to my points with either ad hominem insults or just said 'I missed the point / am incapable of understanding your deeper truths etc', it's hard to take your faux apology very seriously. Happy to listen to the extent you want to present your position / an actual argument mate.

Life's is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

    • 3
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May 13, 2017

Because they are scape goats used by politicians when in fact the #1 source of inequality is government greed and people's own stupid life choices. People are happy to blame anyone but themselves.

All we do is sell companies and securities. MBS was the result of Clinton being a moron and banks transferring their risks.

Let me hear you say, this shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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Jun 8, 2017

Yeah man, it's "cool" to hate on finance these days, and ironically the vast majority of the people who do know nothing about it. Fuck em all, man. Fuck em all. The judgment you were receiving is a reflection of them, not you.

Jun 8, 2017

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

Jun 8, 2017
IlliniProgrammer:

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

Seeing as how I'm a current CS major, that too has gotten me a wide range of responses. But the best one has to be when you're chatting up some girl and lay that bomb down and they can't believe you're not a complete nerd/introvert.

Jun 8, 2017
SirBarney:
IlliniProgrammer:

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

Seeing as how I'm a current CS major, that too has gotten me a wide range of responses. But the best one has to be when you're chatting up some girl and lay that bomb down and they can't believe you're not a complete nerd/introvert.

"Lay that bomb down?"

I think even Illini would admit that being a programmer is a low status job.

Jun 8, 2017
holla_back:
SirBarney:
IlliniProgrammer:

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

Seeing as how I'm a current CS major, that too has gotten me a wide range of responses. But the best one has to be when you're chatting up some girl and lay that bomb down and they can't believe you're not a complete nerd/introvert.

"Lay that bomb down?"

I think even Illini would admit that being a programmer is a low status job.

Definitely did not mean to imply that, I was implying how CS has a pretty bad stereotype of programmers being nerdy/introverted/shy/weird

Jun 8, 2017
holla_back:

"Lay that bomb down?"

I think even Illini would admit that being a programmer is a low status job.

Spoken like a true douche bag. Apparently the gist of the post went completely over your head.

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Jun 8, 2017
rufiolove:
holla_back:

"Lay that bomb down?"

I think even Illini would admit that being a programmer is a low status job.

Spoken like a true douche bag. Apparently the gist of the post went completely over your head.

How am I speaking like a douchebag? I certainly don't brag about being an engineer.

Jun 8, 2017
holla_back:

I think even Illini would admit that being a programmer is a low status job.

I would simply say there is an extremely strong correlation between comp and competence/work ethic for programmers and engineers. And there are programmers who make more than folks on the business side. At the risk of being a smug bastard... nah, I won't go there. :D

Bottom line is that saying "programmer" is a lot more relatable to the average person than "quant".

Jun 8, 2017
IlliniProgrammer:

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

So you seek approval of other people so much that you're even afraid to tell them that you do for the living?

Jun 8, 2017
JeremyLinMVP:

So you seek approval of other people so much that you're even afraid to tell them that you do for the living?

LOL, it is what I do for a living. 50% of my time is spent in Java.

I want to have a conversation with people. If I tell folks outside of industry I'm a quant, one of four things happens:

1.) We're no longer equals. They assume I'm smarter than them, and the conversation shuts down.
2.) I get accused of market manipulation and being responsible for every crash and market event of the past five years.
3.) I look like a smug douche.
4.) "Can I get a job?"

No, I just say I'm a programmer at a bank. I want to have a conversation with folks, and I don't want to carry a lot of baggage into it.

Jun 8, 2017
IlliniProgrammer:

1.) We're no longer equals. They assume I'm smarter than them, and the conversation shuts down.

Seems like you're hanging around with the wrong people.

Jun 8, 2017
IlliniProgrammer:
JeremyLinMVP:

So you seek approval of other people so much that you're even afraid to tell them that you do for the living?

LOL, it is what I do for a living. 50% of my time is spent in Java.

I want to have a conversation with people. If I tell folks outside of industry I'm a quant, one of four things happens:

1.) We're no longer equals. They assume I'm smarter than them, and the conversation shuts down.
2.) I get accused of market manipulation and being responsible for every crash and market event of the past five years.
3.) I look like a smug douche.
4.) "Can I get a job?"

No, I just say I'm a programmer at a bank. I want to have a conversation with folks, and I don't want to carry a lot of baggage into it.

Good list, I would add 5) People try to figure out how they can take advantage of you or get something from you. Personally, I don't work at a hedge fund, "I'm a financial analyst -- you know, a bean counter basically."

Jun 8, 2017
IlliniProgrammer:

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

At least say something that is equally as tough to enter and makes as much money. ie: Neurosurgeon.
If a girl hears"programmer," she thinks GEEK.

Jun 8, 2017
Connor:
IlliniProgrammer:

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

At least say something that is equally as tough to enter and makes as much money. ie: Neurosurgeon.
If a girl hears"programmer," she thinks GEEK.

Some girls dig geeks dude...

Get busy living

Jun 8, 2017
Connor:
IlliniProgrammer:

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

At least say something that is equally as tough to enter and makes as much money. ie: Neurosurgeon.
If a girl hears"programmer," she thinks GEEK.

Meh, she probably heard hang gliding first, and calling myself a "banker" after talking about hang gliding is liable to get me labeled something worse than "geek" ("smug asshole"). So I'd rather just hopefully try to make myself hard to label.

If she hears "quant" or "banker", you will sometimes be able to see her iris start contorting her pupils into the shape of dollar signs. If you're wise, that's not something you want to see. So financial programmer is probably the best route to go, IMHO.

Jun 8, 2017

Next time somebody tries to ream you out for being a financebro, just take your wad of 100s and make it rain all over him/her.

Example:

http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/165248-1/Keffiyeh_thr...

Jun 8, 2017

You'll be hearing that a lot more OP.

My brother has told me, whenever people ask you what you do in the future and you're working in finance, just say you're a Loan Officer.

Jun 8, 2017

Who cares what other people think. I will never understand this crap. If someone gives you shit about what you do just walk away from them. Not only are the uninformed, but they are rude and ignorant. Try and not lower yourself by hanging around people with so little class.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

Jun 8, 2017

Take comfort in the fact that it's their stupidity, not anything that you've done. It doesn't have anything to do with Raj and his ilk - people like them have been around since the beginning. It has never stopped, it never will, and it's not something unique to finance. There is just as much fraud (if not more) in the medical profession, or any other profession, so don't find yourself apologizing for your industry because of them. I know it's tough when it's family, but the sad fact is most people are stupid and gullible.

As for your girl problems, isn't that a nice screening method? Do you really want to be with a girl that stupid? Regardless, never tell a girl you work in finance (or IT/accounting/law/whatever sector you work in). Unless you're a psychic detective, bounty hunter, or other profession which by its very name is awesome, always take the essence of your job and explain in simplest terms why you add value, which makes anything sound much cooler. E.g. "What I do is pretty complex, but here's the deal. Right now, our economy is having a hard time getting off the ground because business owners can't get the money they need to grow and hire people. My job is to find a way to responsibly get millions of dollars to these businesses so they can grow, and so people can feed their families."

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Jun 8, 2017

/commeceRant
I'm just a dude with a job, and have no use for anyone that needs to drag their worldview into everything all the time. My liberal relatives have their 401K in my company, so I kinda chuckled when I learned that. It also helps that my bank didn't take any government money, so there's that. I've gone to the bar and hung out with OWS people, just to hear what they have to say. Some were cool people with good points. Some were jerks: one guy started getting rude about how 'corporations are evil and so am I', so I stood up on the table and shouted "YEAH MOTHERFUCKER I OPPRESS YOU NOW LET'S DO ANOTHER SHOT"....true story.
/endRant

This is just a job. My understanding of people that judge you by your profession is that they're not worth knowing. If someone is cool, great, if not, screw 'em.

Just do your thing.

Get busy living

Jun 8, 2017

Totally see where you're coming from. I don't care about what people do for a living, I value other things. And I don't really respect people who put a lot of importance on job title.
BTW, I think the stigma will remain, we are entering the "Evil professions" club. I hear it was founded by lawyers.

Jun 8, 2017

Lol. I love the responses to this thread. Essentially, "Fuck them, it's because they are stupid." Typical WSO.

But here's a thread called "Do you care about your 'value-add' to society". I think many of the responses speak for themselves.

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/do-you-care-...
And here's one where the WSO members "vomit" after reading Robert Shiller's speech telling young financiers that they play an important role and should use that role to make the world a better place.

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/my-speech-to...
You complain that now people look at financiers as second-class douchebags. I disagree, I believe they are seen as first class douchebags and that is certainly how they behave on this site; if that's any indication of the people going into finance. The site is divided into Targets and non-targets for crying out loud, think about that stratification.

You're crying because you want respect, stop being a b*tch and do what you need/want to do. You don't need to create a thread on a Wall Street forum to try and justify your worth and morality (the two reasons wall street is being vilified). Many of the young financiers on this website have demonstrated they lack either quality, if you have them, demonstrate it yourself because very few going into finance are going to demonstrate it for you. Though i have met some fantastic people who work on wall street.

ie, earn your own respect because it certainly isn't going to come from hanging out in this crowd, and deservedly so IMO.

Jun 8, 2017
happyhippo:

"Do you care about your 'value-add' to society"

Let's cut to the heart of this: I DO and WE DO. I have personally helped thousands of people from my little perch in this jungle, ensuring that people's retirment money is safely and wisely planned for. The rest of the people at my company are typically honest, smart, dedicated, hard working people who advise every day people on how to invest their money: we make mistakes, we've fired jerks, and we've made some bad calls....but for the most part we actually help people in a very personal and direct way: year after year, and generation after generation.

Just because some morons in some banks screwed up does not make our profession 'evil'. Are all doctors evil because some botch a surgery or because medical billing/insurance in this country is a joke? NO. Are architects evil because a bridge sometimes bites the dust? NO.

Bad things happen, that's life, don't turn it all into a conspiracy.

So don't make such sweeping generalizations about my industry or the people in it. I regard this as a personal attack on myself and my livelihood when people imply that we are anything but a legitimate business. And that's what this is....a business. We're not missionaries or charity workers, but we do our part creating and protecting wealth. And a lot of us do volunteer work on the side: I'm a partner at a charity.

If you really want to play the blame game and get technical, blame former president Bush for perpetuating an artificially low interest rate environment to impose his worldview...or blame the legion of idiots who re-elected him. Ultimately, systemic accountability lies with the government, and they absolutely did create an environment where business was forced to overheat and rules were relaxed...people screwing up and/or taking advantage of that is simple human nature. Voting for an idiot, however, was a deliberate decision.

/endRant

Get busy living

Jun 8, 2017

Whoa, I think I glossed over an important part. Why the hell are you allowing liberal family members to shit on you? This is far worse of a man crime than being ashamed of what you do. You need to put them in their place.

I literally cannot fathom any single person in my family giving me shit about anything. Does this shit happen in real life? Tear them a new asshole and send them packing like the pussies they are.

Guys, honestly, family members talk shit to you? Please tell me this is an exaggeration and not what really happens.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

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Jun 8, 2017
TNA:

Whoa, I think I glossed over an important part. Why the hell are you allowing liberal family members to shit on you? This is far worse of a man crime than being ashamed of what you do. You need to put them in their place.

I literally cannot fathom any single person in my family giving me shit about anything. Does this shit happen in real life? Tear them a new asshole and send them packing like the pussies they are.

I'm not sure this is the best advice for winning friends and influencing people.

Guys, honestly, family members talk shit to you? Please tell me this is an exaggeration and not what really happens.

They respect me, I respect their politics. We all get along. And my aunt has more to worry about with her son working for a defense contractor.

Jun 8, 2017
IlliniProgrammer:
TNA:

Whoa, I think I glossed over an important part. Why the hell are you allowing liberal family members to shit on you? This is far worse of a man crime than being ashamed of what you do. You need to put them in their place.

I literally cannot fathom any single person in my family giving me shit about anything. Does this shit happen in real life? Tear them a new asshole and send them packing like the pussies they are.

I'm not sure this is the best advice for winning friends and influencing people.

Guys, honestly, family members talk shit to you? Please tell me this is an exaggeration and not what really happens.

They respect me, I respect their politics. We all get along. And my aunt has more to worry about with her son working for a defense contractor.

I don't know. I've just never encountered a smug family member or someone who would even think of talking shit to me. Honestly, I would just stop associating with them and stop going home for any holidays. You are making money now, no need for family members, especially those who think they can disrespect you to your face.

And I reiterate, who cares what other people think. Finance has always been hated by people and that will never change. The goal is to make as much money as possible and pay as little taxes as possible and ignore everything else.

Way I look at it we are all whores to the system, some people are just more open about it than others. The day of doctors helping and lawyers defending are long gone. Everyone is doing it for the cash.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

Jun 8, 2017
TNA:

I don't know. I've just never encountered a smug family member or someone who would even think of talking shit to me. Honestly, I would just stop associating with them and stop going home for any holidays. You are making money now, no need for family members, especially those who think they can disrespect you to your face.

I haven't either. But I do get berated every once in a while for working in finance.

And I reiterate, who cares what other people think. Finance has always been hated by people and that will never change. The goal is to make as much money as possible and pay as little taxes as possible and ignore everything else.

You're only getting half of Marcus Aurelius and Seneca. Yes, you shouldn't care too much about what other people think. But you should also care about doing your duty. Hindus and Buddhists call it Dharma; the Stoics and Christians called it fulfilling your responsibilities.

Aurelius, in his writings to himself, talks about the retreat into his soul being a better retreat than any villa out there. That even as an emperor, he didn't need that. His soul was enough. His soul was secure and serene because he actively chose to do the right thing, even when it wasn't necessarily easy for him. In order to confidently stand in who you are, you have to do the right thing. (I am not an expert at this. I am just the nerdy quant who sits over in the corner.)

Way I look at it we are all whores to the system, some people are just more open about it than others. The day of doctors helping and lawyers defending are long gone. Everyone is doing it for the cash.

We are all broken people trying to do the right thing, and tripping every step of the way. You and I both follow a religion where God tells us we're mere "sheep". Let's not get too smug. :-)

Jun 8, 2017

lol @ entire thread

vilifying the young "bankers" is like putting on a war crimes trial for the lackey who brought hitler his strawberry jam for breakfast

Jun 8, 2017

And what is this crap about being afraid to tell people what you do. Drop the finance bomb and when someone pisses and moans about evil bankers tell them to piss off and laugh at them.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

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Jun 8, 2017

Not trying to be smug, but you catch my drift. Mother Theresa can talk shit to me, but most other people should probably STFU.

Either way my entire mantra is simply to be centered with who you are and what you do. People who talk shit about other people and their career are ignorant, little and rude. Not people you want to associate with. Especially someone who does this as soon as they meet you in the bar.

Finance is important, but in a more complex way. Everyone has first hand experience with many other careers, but finance is 2nd or 3rd degree removed beneficial. You need to understand the workings of the machine to understand how the various aspects of finance benefit all of us.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

Jun 8, 2017
TNA:

Either way my entire mantra is simply to be centered with who you are and what you do. People who talk shit about other people and their career are ignorant, little and rude. Not people you want to associate with. Especially someone who does this as soon as they meet you in the bar.

Sure, but on the flip side, we shouldn't go out of our way to make an issue of ourselves. Banking has always been an issue on some level. Either from bankers being rich to bankers being villains to X, Y, or Z.

A conversation with folks is a connection at the human level. If you want to talk with someone, why go out of your way to make that difficult?

Finance is important, but in a more complex way. Everyone has first hand experience with many other careers, but finance is 2nd or 3rd degree removed beneficial. You need to understand the workings of the machine to understand how the various aspects of finance benefit all of us.

Of course. But an oversupply of finance can also be detrimental. Do you understand the workings of the machine well enough to also understand that a lot of these folks have a point on at least a couple issues?

Seems like you're hanging around with the wrong people.

LOL! They're the right people! They keep me NORMAL!

Jun 8, 2017
IlliniProgrammer:
TNA:

Either way my entire mantra is simply to be centered with who you are and what you do. People who talk shit about other people and their career are ignorant, little and rude. Not people you want to associate with. Especially someone who does this as soon as they meet you in the bar.

Sure, but on the flip side, we shouldn't go out of our way to make an issue of ourselves. Banking has always been an issue on some level. Either from bankers being rich to bankers being villains to X, Y, or Z.

A conversation with folks is a connection at the human level. If you want to talk with someone, why go out of your way to make that difficult?

Finance is important, but in a more complex way. Everyone has first hand experience with many other careers, but finance is 2nd or 3rd degree removed beneficial. You need to understand the workings of the machine to understand how the various aspects of finance benefit all of us.

Of course. But an oversupply of finance can also be detrimental. Do you understand the workings of the machine well enough to also understand that a lot of these folks have a point?

If I am at the bar and someone gives me shit about my job, someone I don't know, then no, I don't want to talk to them. I mean this is the whole point. This isn't a discussion on the merits of XYZ, this is an ignorant douche crapping on your job because of some tripe that they watched on the Daily Show.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

Jun 8, 2017

When my gf's mother who is ultra-liberal (tells me she hopes I have a son - a gay one) tries to imply everyone in finance is crooked, I just let her talk and talk. Give people enough rope and they'll hang themselves with their ignorance.

Just ask simple questions about basic instruments until they openly admit they do not know anything about banking.

A good example would be the mortgage crisis and how it's all the bank's fault. I would say "well you know how CDO's are put together right?" and then shut up and let her make a fool of herself. I guarantee 95% of the people who have an opinion on JPM will look at you with bewilderment when you ask them to explain what IG9 is.

Jun 8, 2017
NYU:

When my gf's mother who is ultra-liberal (tells me she hopes I have a son - a gay one) tries to imply everyone in finance is crooked, I just let her talk and talk. Give people enough rope and they'll hang themselves with their ignorance.

Just ask simple questions about basic instruments until they openly admit they do not know anything about banking.

A good example would be the mortgage crisis and how it's all the bank's fault. I would say "well you know how CDO's are put together right?" and then shut up and let her make a fool of herself. I guarantee 95% of the people who have an opinion on JPM will look at you with bewilderment when you ask them to explain what IG9 is.

Dude, let me know when you are single again cause that relationship is DOA.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

Jun 8, 2017
TNA:
NYU:

When my gf's mother who is ultra-liberal (tells me she hopes I have a son - a gay one) tries to imply everyone in finance is crooked, I just let her talk and talk. Give people enough rope and they'll hang themselves with their ignorance.

Just ask simple questions about basic instruments until they openly admit they do not know anything about banking.

A good example would be the mortgage crisis and how it's all the bank's fault. I would say "well you know how CDO's are put together right?" and then shut up and let her make a fool of herself. I guarantee 95% of the people who have an opinion on JPM will look at you with bewilderment when you ask them to explain what IG9 is.

Dude, let me know when you are single again cause that relationship is DOA.

She's a 3 decade, 2 pack a day smoker. That's all the supplemental info. needed

Jun 8, 2017

Every time I meet OWS people, I can only think of this:
Starting @1:20, http://youtu.be/Ssa31hmBqVQ?t=1m20s

"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."

Jun 8, 2017

If I am at the bar and someone gives me shit about my job, someone I don't know, then no, I don't want to talk to them. I mean this is the whole point. This isn't a discussion on the merits of XYZ, this is an ignorant douche crapping on your job because of some tripe that they watched on the Daily Show.

OK, maybe you don't. But:

1.) Life is better when you don't try to inspire anger in others.
2.) Life is better when you don't try to inspire jealousy in others.

If you have the opportunity to keep your role more generic that mitigates (1) and (2) in the average person, why not do it? You don't have to care about what other people think of you, but part of being human is that you care about THEM and their health.

Our success should be a blessing to others, not a curse. It isn't my entire responsiblity that someone would hate me or be jealous of me, but it isn't their entire responsibility either. So why not make it easier for everybody?

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Jun 8, 2017

Good piece, Billy Ray. Your experience tells us about several things, one being the vertical economic mobility of some and the envy of others who come from the same same economic strata. That envy, particularly of entrepreneurs and finance people, takes a lot of expressions. Frankly, I think you need to be able to defend yourself, to do at least some thinking about the literal productive effects of what it is that you do. Be proud of it. I know, a lot of WSO monkeys disparage any thinking about the literal value of financial functions. But nobody on WSO can be unaware that the financial community is under attack from many directions. Right now, only the bad behavior of the financial community is reported. Without defenders it will be regulated to death. The political hacks who want to do that know about the public sentiment you ran into, have encouraged it, and rely on it for support.

Chaos2Order = JRE, Ph.D.

View my WSO Blog

Jun 8, 2017

Wow, this spiraled a bit out of control. I think people may have slightly missed the point of my original post. First, my family is not "talking shit" to me, and I wouldn't allow that. I was simply making the point that unfortunately the few bad eggs in the business, which there surely are, have made it difficult for many of us to garner the same level of respect for our industry that we once had.

Secondly, the fact that some of the responders think I was posting this looking for some sort of sympathy is just wrong. I don't give a shit what anyone else thinks. I know what I do. I know how it contributes to society. I know how hard I worked to get where I am. And I know that I actually enjoy what I do and I enjoy the people I work with. And I am proud of it. As I said at the end of my OP, if someone doesn't understand that, f*** 'em.

I luckily have a job that happens to allow me to enjoy all of the amazing things this world has to offer. It allows me to do all the things I enjoy and spend time with the people I care about. So, if that means I have to deal with some people who may not "get it" that's fine by me, I could really give two shits what you think.

And @happyhippo... glad thats like your second post on this site. I award your response NO respect, and definitely could care less what you think. And I do add value, if you don't see that, its your problem.

Jun 8, 2017

These are two seperate issues:

1) On the family side....unfortunately you cant change your family. When this happens to me (and it does) I just laugh it off..who cares what aunt tilley thinks? Just change the subject and move on its not worth figting about.

2) Being in finance has never been a job that turns women on especially girls you meet at a bar who are there to have fun. It is a boring job. Programmer is even worse actually. If a girl asks you what you do for a living the conversation is already turning boring anyway and you are losing control of the situation. Point being that the girl is only going to be turned off by your job if you she isnt attracted to you....when girls ask me my job i have fun with it, make them guess, say im a porn star, etc and when the actual truth comes out she doesnt care she's just having a good time. Seperately you learn alot about yourself by making girls guess your job...if you ask that and girls guess something boring like a banker then you may want to think about why you come off as a boring person on first impression.

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Jun 8, 2017
Bondarb:

These are two seperate issues:

1) On the family side....unfortunately you cant change your family. When this happens to me (and it does) I just laugh it off..who cares what aunt tilley thinks? Just change the subject and move on its not worth figting about.

2) Being in finance has never been a job that turns women on especially girls you meet at a bar who are there to have fun. It is a boring job. Programmer is even worse actually. If a girl asks you what you do for a living the conversation is already turning boring anyway and you are losing control of the situation. Point being that the girl is only going to be turned off by your job if you she isnt attracted to you....when girls ask me my job i have fun with it, make them guess, say im a porn star, etc and when the actual truth comes out she doesnt care she's just having a good time. Seperately you learn alot about yourself by making girls guess your job...if you ask that and girls guess something boring like a banker then you may want to think about why you come off as a boring person on first impression.

Totally agree... I personally tell everyone that I invented the Shake Weight

Jun 8, 2017
rufiolove:

I personally tell everyone that I invented the Shake Weight

nice. then you just gotta subtly undermine her self esteem by tellen her "in fact u could probably use a shake weight to burn off some of that shake weight"

Jun 8, 2017
Bondarb:

These are two seperate issues:

1) On the family side....unfortunately you cant change your family. When this happens to me (and it does) I just laugh it off..who cares what aunt tilley thinks? Just change the subject and move on its not worth figting about.

2) Being in finance has never been a job that turns women on especially girls you meet at a bar who are there to have fun. It is a boring job. Programmer is even worse actually. If a girl asks you what you do for a living the conversation is already turning boring anyway and you are losing control of the situation. Point being that the girl is only going to be turned off by your job if you she isnt attracted to you....when girls ask me my job i have fun with it, make them guess, say im a porn star, etc and when the actual truth comes out she doesnt care she's just having a good time. Seperately you learn alot about yourself by making girls guess your job...if you ask that and girls guess something boring like a banker then you may want to think about why you come off as a boring person on first impression.

Another great post by Bondarb... +1 SB

I usually say "I'm a kept man" or "i used to be an underwear model" with a straight face... It takes a few seconds for them to figure out that I'm not being serious and we continue flirting from there; by the time girls find out what I do we're already having a great time and have set our ideologies and hang-ups aside. I have friends who say they're security guards or garbage collectors and that approach works well too. You can't pretty much choose any job that doesn't suit a white collar guy and make it flirty. Eventually, at that night or later, you will disclose your job and have to be comfortable with it. It's just a job and they're more interested in dating the man not the stereotype. I'm in real estate pe though so it's easier for me as I'm not as big a parasite as the rest of you guys*...

As to those who decide to cut off ties to their families and to stop going to gatherings... WOW... You guys have serious issues and need to work on your family relationships. Your banks/employers will toss you on the street the moment it suits them. Blood is thicker than water.

Banker's rep...

Bankers and finance getting a bad rep isn't something new. Only for a very short period in the go-go 80s and in the Thatcher / Reagan years was it socially desirable to be a banker (even then marginally so and in some cases people were extremely hostile to bankers then). For the few centuries before that time bankers as a class were seen as undesirable and a necessary evil of an industrialising/industrial society by most people. Before that people who practised banking/lending were social outcasts and demonised by the major religions, societies and throughout literature (e.g. Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice). Society has never loved it's financiers so don't expect them to start now, especially so soon after you've ruined the party for everyone else.

The reason a lot of you youngsters are confused is, apart from a seemingly lack of historical context, that the rhetoric you know is different from the rest of society (i.e. you don't know that you are screwing them). Bankers talk about synergies, efficiencies, shareholder value, protecting IP, "efficient" markets, etc... but to the rest of society it means losing jobs and livelihoods, union busting, cutting government services, denial of healthcare, private autocracy, wage slavery, hijacking the government/democratic process, private monopolies, hazardous foods/cars/products, tax dodging, etc... Then you wonder why they don't embrace you with open arms when you tell them you're a banker?

* N.B. Don't take it too personally guys. It's there for comedic effect

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Jun 8, 2017

Capitalism is the best economic system. That being said, it does leave many opportunities to be exploited. The reason financiers get shit is because the "bad" stories obviously get more media attention than the "good" stories. People have no interest in financial happenings that go well, but they damn sure wanna know about when they're getting fucked. That's why people hate on it, because of the actions of a small amount of people. 1 bad story will always get WAYYYY more press than 100 good stories. I'd say next time someone gives you shit, to explain this and how you are one of the "good" guys but at the end of the day they'd probably have no idea wtf you're talking about.

If you're a good guy, yea it sucks you're losing respect because of OTHER ppl's actions. If you're a bad guy GFY because not only are you sending the reputation of an entire profession to shit, but you're also causing regulations to have to be installed that are further sending it to shit.

GBS

Jun 8, 2017

It's like people complain about unemployment being too high but then they complain about others working jobs they don't approve of. You can't win with leftists.

Jun 8, 2017

Hu... Do you you want people not working in Finance to give you candies on top of your bonus?
Yea people have an opinion about finance, so what?
My grand mother thinks I am a teller... My friends think I bring in 500K a year... Some occupy guy thinks am a twat...

Let people make their own opinions of you. Prove them wrong. Don't be a twat and get along with your life. You are a banker, wow! People don't think you are super smart and driven, oh my! That must be tough!!!

Jun 8, 2017

Liberalism is a mental disorder... plain and simple.

    • 1
Jun 8, 2017
jeffsmonte:

Liberalism is a mental disorder... plain and simple.

Do you know what liberalism is? You're an idiot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

    • 1
Jun 8, 2017
WSJ123:
jeffsmonte:

Liberalism is a mental disorder... plain and simple.

Do you know what liberalism is? You're an idiot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Gotta agree with jeffsmonte here cheif. However it isn't a clear cut mental disorder. I guess its kinda like a court case where a definite crime was commited, but there's always the option for the insanity defense.

Also the first sentence from your Wikipedia link : "Liberalism is a political ideology or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and the free exercise of religion."

While this may have been the definition once upon a time, no one in their right mind would say that modern-day liberalism in the US explicitly espouses constitutionalism (2nd Amendment?), capitalism (HAH!!!), or exercise of free religion (more like eradication of religion, especially Christianity).

"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money"

  • Margaret Thatcher
Jun 8, 2017
whitecollarandsuspenders:
WSJ123:
jeffsmonte:

Liberalism is a mental disorder... plain and simple.

Do you know what liberalism is? You're an idiot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Gotta agree with jeffsmonte here cheif. However it isn't a clear cut mental disorder. I guess its kinda like a court case where a definite crime was commited, but there's always the option for the insanity defense.

Also the first sentence from your Wikipedia link : "Liberalism is a political ideology or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and the free exercise of religion."

While this may have been the definition once upon a time, no one in their right mind would say that modern-day liberalism in the US explicitly espouses constitutionalism (2nd Amendment?), capitalism (HAH!!!), or exercise of free religion (more like eradication of religion, especially Christianity).

How the hell do you guys call being a liberal a mental disorder. I can't believe there are people like you that exist in our society.

Jun 8, 2017
WSJ123:
whitecollarandsuspenders:
WSJ123:
jeffsmonte:

Liberalism is a mental disorder... plain and simple.

Do you know what liberalism is? You're an idiot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Gotta agree with jeffsmonte here cheif. However it isn't a clear cut mental disorder. I guess its kinda like a court case where a definite crime was commited, but there's always the option for the insanity defense.

Also the first sentence from your Wikipedia link : "Liberalism is a political ideology or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and the free exercise of religion."

While this may have been the definition once upon a time, no one in their right mind would say that modern-day liberalism in the US explicitly espouses constitutionalism (2nd Amendment?), capitalism (HAH!!!), or exercise of free religion (more like eradication of religion, especially Christianity).

How the hell do you guys call being a liberal a mental disorder. I can't believe there are people like you that exist in our society.

I'm pretty sure we are both expressing our conservative views by poking fun at liberalism/leftism/whatever you want to call it. And ummm yeah I think there are a lot of people like me in society.

"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money"

  • Margaret Thatcher
Jun 8, 2017

Yes, the vilification of Finance people is there. But it has become "cool" to be ignorant. Even the White House feeds on that ignorance by speaking out against private equity. Most people in the US can't even make a logical argument as to how Finance and Wall Street could be so bad and evil. They couldn't tell you the difference between a put, call or futures contract. Most people don't even know that some pensions are invested in private equity. Many of the same middle income people that are against Finance don't even know that they themselves have money invested in it.

Jun 8, 2017

Neurosurgeon ain't cool.

Jun 8, 2017
TraderDaily:

Neurosurgeon ain't cool.

Huh?