Why Does The World Hate Wall Street and Bankers

LReed's picture
Rank: Senior Neanderthal | banana points 5,632

It seems that conservative and liberal pundits alike all use Investment Bankers as a symbol of greed and corruption to scapegoat for all of the countries woes. Did this all start after the housing crisis or has there always been hostility towards bankers?

I commonly hear journalists spout the ignorance that bankers add nothing to the economy and it is frustrating because I don't think they realize all of the work that bankers put in to allow American businesses to finance and grow their operations. Even on a smaller level, do these people realize that they would not be able to finance their cars and homes if it were not for the retail/consumer arm of big banks?

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Comments (191)

May 8, 2017

this is OP right now: http://i.imgur.com/WTDnnwE.gif

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May 8, 2017

boils down to they hate us cus they aint us

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May 8, 2017

u mean to say "they hate us cuz they anus"

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May 8, 2017

Same reason geeds hate FratLords. Ask me if I give a fuck?

Go on, ask me, really.

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May 8, 2017

Do you give a fuck?

Best Response
May 8, 2017

Take the amount of genders that exist, then subtract 2. That's how many fucks I give. 0, 0 fucks is how many I give.
crushes Natty and bangs a noobs mom for talking shit on X-Box live

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May 12, 2017

hahahhahahahaahh this might be the best exchange of comments ive ever seen on WSO

May 13, 2017

The people who hate WS are the ones who tend to think there are over 100 genders on the gender spectrum.

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May 15, 2017

Special fucking snowflakes...

May 8, 2017

If you've had the chance to grab drinks with a Senior Banker whose been in the industry for multiple generations (30-40+ years), they'll often share why if you broach the subject. This doesn't apply to everyone, but many bankers did a bang up job from the 1970's until now screwing the profession's reputation by simply acting like greedy assholes.

An MD I've been privy to drinking with described WallStreet firms in the 80's as such, "They were ripe with drugs, large personalities, and self-serving attitudes." Those three ingredients create a personality cocktail doesn't bode well for work place morality nor a well liked reputation...

I describe the reason why Bankers are hated as such (citing a recent example):
Fact 1A.) There is no proven relationship between how much money you make and how little friends you have.
Fact 1B.) There is a proven relationship between how many people you screw out of their life-savings with loans that were unknowingly sub-prime, and how little friends you have.

Unfortunately everyone in the industry is now thrust under the same umbrella, despite the fact that there are many positive ancillary benefits coming from the industry, such as: job creation, business proliferation, and the economy being kept in motion. Like life, we are as fast as our slowest runner... or most immoral in this case.

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May 8, 2017

So about the part about screwing people of life-savings with unknowingly sub-prime loans.

Is the idea generally that Big Banks overvalued shit sub-prime mortgage pools so they could over-leverage them and expand their balance sheets which then in turn fucked everyone really badly when it turned out that these shit sub-prime mortgages were, in fact, extremely overvalued - and then this caused people whose 401Ks were invested in said mortgage pool and MBS's to fall to the floor because the value of such Assets were naively over-valued to begin with? While this also caused other debts and securities to collapse in price because the buyers of such debts on behalf of others (big banks) were using margin, justified by the collateral value of overpriced MBS's to purchase such debts? When in reality the collapse in value of MBS's rendered the beholders of these massive amounts of securities and debts insolvent to actually cash them out when individual people needed to withdraw their savings in cash?

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May 8, 2017

It comes down to short-term profits vs long-term rewards. Subprime pays more in higher spreads in the short run but they cost unsophisticated consumers a lot in the process. People see this as predatory profit seeking, because things can get ugly like they did in the financial crisis, not to mention people with lack of knowledge fail to understand the terms they're signing on for in their mortgages.

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May 8, 2017

So basically subprime is better for short profits because due to the increased risk and adjustable rates they pay a higher interest rate, but if that increased risk leads to default it's the people whose savings were being lent to the unsophisticated consumers who will be fucked? In addition to the unsophisticated consumers themselves of course.

Sorry to be making yall teach me a history lesson on the crisis, just trying to understand the bigger picture.

May 8, 2017

Not quite. You should separate savings from lending. Savings generally get hurt during a recession. Sub-prime lending can get fucked at any point during the cycle--it just comes out of the bank's earnings. But they have mechanisms in place to keep their losses slim, such as foreclosure, which fucks the consumer out of his house and equity.

People don't like anything they view as preying on the weak (in this case, the unsophisticated consumer). But I think the above is also very correct, as well as there is the whole 'models and bottles' concept that gets portrayed in mainstream media, making bankers look like a bunch of animals that don't know what they're doing.

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May 8, 2017

The fundamental flaw, though, was that the underlying value of the asset would never go down in price. Who cares if the loan is issued 100% LTV if in a year you have significant equity?

May 8, 2017

@LReed . Many of those securities you describe, were overvalued because the rating agencies neglected their responsibility of marking them properly as a sub-prime investment. Those security packages were incorrectly rated A (and above) because of a fraudulent rating system. Furthermore, there were senior bankers who knew the mortgages being bundled into these CDO's were subprime and sold them as A rated packages regardless. Not to mention, many investors where unsophisticated with the process, and the banks were leveraging themselves 1000 / 1 on these mortgages because the housing market was supposed to be one of the more stable markets. All in all, it was driven by greed and a lust for profit that caused immoral practice from big banks, to the regulatory agencies, to even smaller banks who gave out "No Income" adjustable rate sub-prime mortgage loans to people who couldn't afford them.

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May 8, 2017

@Keyser Soze 123 @iBankedUp I appreciate yall.

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May 13, 2017

Props for a concise yet very informative summary!

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May 13, 2017

See: Puerto Rico

<span itemprop=name>Keyser Soze 123</span>:

@LReed . Many of those securities you describe, were overvalued because the rating agencies neglected their responsibility of marking them properly as a sub-prime investment. Those security packages were incorrectly rated A (and above) because of a fraudulent rating system. Furthermore, there were senior bankers who knew the mortgages being bundled into these CDO's were subprime and sold them as A rated packages regardless. Not to mention, many investors where unsophisticated with the process, and the banks were leveraging themselves 1000 / 1 on these mortgages because the housing market was supposed to be one of the more stable markets. All in all, it was driven by greed and a lust for profit that caused immoral practice from big banks, to the regulatory agencies, to even smaller banks who gave out "No Income" adjustable rate sub-prime mortgage loans to people who couldn't afford them.

May 13, 2017

Is your account name related at all to Billions?

May 14, 2017

No

May 15, 2017

Same.

'I'm jacked... JACKED TO THE TITS!!'

May 14, 2017

Billions references "Keyser Soze" but its originally from a 1995 crime film

May 14, 2017

The Usual Suspects is a fantastic film. Spacey's performances in TUS and Seven made me an huge fan of his. He plays a really good anti-hero (see him in House of Cards as Frank Underwood as well).

May 8, 2017

Fact is: Those people have no idea what they are talking about. It is the same with politicians like Bernie Sanders who would even fail a basic exam in macroeconomics. A eco freshman has probably a better understanding on how the economy works than this bastard. People don't even know what an Investment Banker does. Most Americans believe that they speculate with normal people savings to generate revenue similar like in the Wolf of Wall Street. They don't have a clue abut M&A, DCM, ECM, ....

I dare people to believe idiots like Bernie Sanders and to break up Wall Street banks, so that they can see how important those institutions are. There wouldn't be any major process possible without investment banks. No economic growth, nothing. At least not in the same pace and rates we saw. Helping companies to acquire others and to enable them access to capital is the fundamental of growth and innovation. A break up would cause higher unemployment and slower economic growth. Banks play a major role in the economy and the fact that there are some stories about some greedy individuals who were involved in criminal activities don't change shit.

Don't say this in a banking interview:

Which superhero would you be and why? I want to be like Robin Hood, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor - me.

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May 8, 2017

Well said. A lot of people think everyone in finance or banking is a stockbroker or works as a teller, it's funny that they don't even know what they claim to hate

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May 13, 2017

This. The majority of people have no idea what investment banks do or why they are important to the economy.

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May 14, 2017

A clear line must be drawn between the issue of whether Wall Street provides value to society (it undeniably does) and whether we should "believe idiots like Bernie Sanders and to break up Wall Street banks".

Presumably "break up Wall Street banks" refers to the systemically important financial institutions. I am genuinely interested in whether the benefits of having giant banks (global competitiveness, economies of scale, etc.) outweigh the risks (Too Big to Fail). Are there services that a smaller bank can't even come close to providing as well as a TBTF bank?

I am purely playing the Devil's advocate here when I ask: why couldn't smaller banks provide all the valuable services you have identified - "Helping companies to acquire others and to enable them access to capital is the fundamental of growth and innovation."?

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May 14, 2017

There are many reasons why big players are necessary. For example, JPM has a great balance sheet to finance deals. Only large banks like GS/MS/JPM can offer some kind of structured products. Only JPM can finance a 50bn deal in 2 months. Generally, large banks offer customers a wider range of products and services. Banks that are more diversified in their activities -- which is the case with most large banks -- generally pose less risk of failure. In the recent financial crisis roughly 450 small banks failed and some 200 small banks have yet to pay back their TARP assistance. How many of the big banks actually failed?

Banks like JPM, Citi, BoA also profit from economies of scale. A bank breakup might mean higher interest rates and fees on credit since you can't run 3 smaller banks for the same amount you need to run one big bank. Banks ultimately sell loans to aggregators such as Wells Fargo, U.S. Bank or JPM, which in turn put them into securities and sell them to investors. If banks aren't big enough to aggregate loans, it would have a negative impact on the flow of mortgage money (slower lending -> slower economic growth since spending is the main contributor to growth in the US). Big Banks don't just aggregate loans, they also invest in them. Smaller banks might be less able or willing to risk money this way, a change that could also mean waiting longer or paying more for mortgages. Besides that the biggest banks have a global presence. How do you want to advise a large US company who acquires a competitor in Europe? Do you really want large U.S. companies going to large foreign banks? You push the center of finance out of the U.S. and over to Europe. That's not good overall for the American economy, especially in a world that's becoming more globalized every day.

More important, we overlook the lessons of history. The Great Depression raged despite the fact that most banks were small. The 2008 crisis was easier to contain than the Great Depression because the Fed and the Treasury were able to get the heads of the large banks in a single room and strong-arm them into an agreement that ended the panic and restored lending.

Furthermore, no advocate of a breakup has come forward with a plan on how to do it. Large banks are global, complex, integrated institutions. Breaking them apart would be incredibly difficult, long and disruptive, and the banks might have to freeze loan growth during the process, slowing our economy even further.

Don't say this in a banking interview:

Which superhero would you be and why? I want to be like Robin Hood, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor - me.

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May 14, 2017

Dude, this reply is a godsend.

In the back of my mind, I always considered fragments of what you have said - I've just never been able to consolidate those thoughts and clearly articulate them.

May 8, 2017

Because in all honesty, how much value does a banker actually create?

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May 8, 2017

Enough that Snapchat will pay investment banks millions of dollars to advise them on how to go public.

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May 8, 2017

Few people understand economics..basic economics. Even fewer people understand finance.

May 8, 2017

People verbally hate rich people.
But instinctively love them.

Just imagine if the "refugees" were actually millionaires.
Societies have no problems with super wealthy immigrants.

But once you're poor/needy, you're "loved" and "welcomed" while avoided like the plague.

There's a great scene in the movie The Gambler (horrible movie, great scene) about "fuck you money".
Naturally people will never admit they love assholes.
But what we like and what we want are usually polar opposites. Think about your relationships.

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May 13, 2017

+1. Red Pilled to the core. I agree.

May 13, 2017

Most people don't actually know what investment bankers do. I give a lot of lectures to engineering students, medical students, undergrads, etc on the basics of our financial and capital markets and I usually start the lecture with "Does anyone know what investment bankers do?" The answer is always "They take other people's money and invest it."

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May 13, 2017

Without finance and banking we'd still live in stone age. Oh and only the weak need doctors.

May 13, 2017

People have been hating bankers since the day one of them made more money than other people.

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May 13, 2017

My 2 cents is that banking gets a bigger share of the pie than it deserves . And by deserve i mean to actual contribution to human development.
And that is because not a lot of people can understand that shitstorm named finance. The financial system is complicated and the discrepancy of information is what allows bankers to exploit it because without the service they provide thngs wouldnt be able to move.
But IB is the middleman and middlemen shouldnt take so big part of the pie. At least i think this is the opinion of the public hich knows what IB is etc

May 13, 2017

Athletes/Entertainers don't contribute much to human development but are paid fortunes. IB exists because there's clearly a big demand for it. End of the day it's supply/demand.

May 14, 2017

Well if you want to be compared to atheletes who are literally living ads then go ahead. I dont.
Supply demand is one thing. Having the mental capacity to see how this whole thing could become more efficient is another. From what i've seen. Paying bankers enormous amounts of money doesnt ensure the efficiency of the markets.

May 14, 2017

I doubt if banker's salaries go down then the system will become "more efficient". Does C-suite deserve to be paid as highly as they are? Understand that the markets will never be perfectly efficient. Why? Because the market is reflective of human nature/decisions. If you think that paying less salaries will change that then maybe it's you that lacks the mental capacity to see the issue at it's core.

May 14, 2017

Yeah, that does not cover the why should the bankers be paid so much. What do they actually contribute apart from from ensuring efficiency? And if efficiency cannot be reached then it's a point for my argument

May 15, 2017
  1. You haven't made an argument. You've stated a belief (that bankers are paid too much relative to their contribution to society) and offered no evidence or rationale to support it. Moreover, you haven't even asserted what you think the right level of compensation would be.
  2. What is supposed to be made more efficient? The market? That's not what bankers are paid to do. You're literally just throwing around nebulous comments and demanding everyone justify the current level of compensation paid to bankers with zero context.
  3. Why shouldn't the 'middle man' be paid more? Why doesn't it make sense that specialists would be compensated for helping clients navigate the complexities of the financial statement? Your standard would devalue all service industries and you've offered zero empirical justification for it.
  4. FWIW, it's pretty asinine to make an absurd hypothetical (e.g. reducing salaries across an entire industry) the crux of your argument, especially when the outcome is far from obvious.
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May 19, 2017

I didn't know that I have to write a thesis on a forum so you don't get all rilled up with a different opinion. Also I do not see your arguments and I don't think that I am the only one who should defend their case.

What are the bankers paid to do then? Because If they are not paid to at least pathetically and egoistically ensure market efficiency then they are useless.

Why I should take the complexity as an assumption? The financial system is absolutely ridicusly complicated without any benefit for the society . So they navigate the people trough a complicated system of their own making. Tell me how is that not BSing

Salaries are the least of my concerns(while it is one of them) The profits of the financial sector are the problem. These money owed to be recycled into the economy through the financial system not accumulated into a couple of hands. To be honest, the inefficiency of this system regarding the societal progress is so obvious that its almost pretty self explanatory. Yes the biggest boom in human progression was made under this system but I BELIEVE and I don't have data for it that it its more attributed to the technological progress than how the money are distributed.

This is the best system we had. But that doesn't make it good

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May 19, 2017

Q: What are the bankers paid to do then? Because If they are not paid to at least pathetically and egoistically ensure market efficiency then they are useless.

A: Bankers are paid to do many, many things. The big ones are 1) Maximize value of their client in a sale / minimize cost of an acquisition, 2) optimize the amount and cost of capital to their clients seeking equity / debt financing, and 3) provide market-making services. To be absolutely explicit, - if bankers can achieve more success along any of these vectors by lowering market efficiency, they should and do. Individual bankers do not work for the market or society, but their services in aggregate benefit society.

Q: Why I should take the complexity as an assumption? The financial system is absolutely ridicusly complicated without any benefit for the society . So they navigate the people trough a complicated system of their own making. Tell me how is that not BSing

A: The complexity of the financial system benefits society in the sense that it provides more options both for investors and those seeking to raise capital. The financial system is complicated because it aggregates the preferences and predictions about the future of billions of individuals and allocates trillions of dollars, all of which is updated on a continuous basis. If you have an actionable vision of how to build financial market that is NOT complicated, let me know and I'll invest every dollar I have and more. If you have even an inkling of how to achieve that goal, I'll personally SB every comment you write till the end of time. Of course, you don't though, so I'm gonna continue on my merry way.

Gonna break this last chunk into bits because it annoyed me with it's idiocy:

The profits of the financial sector are the problem.These money owed to be recycled into the economy through the financial system not accumulated into a couple of hands.

a. That money is not owed to anyone, except the bankers who earned it in a legal transaction.
b. If there are not profits to be had in the financial system, there is no (private) financial system. If you think that would be better for society, I'd direct you to the shitty 99% of human history that precedes the creation of a functional financial system.
c. Also, if that's how you feel, why don't we outlaw profiting for tech companies (how dare that Zuckerberg guy have so much money accumulating in his hands!!!!).

Yes the biggest boom in human progression was made under this system but I BELIEVE and I don't have data for it that it its more attributed to the technological progress than how the money are distributed.

Great, so we agree that your argument ignores the available empirical data and is based solely on your unsupported person belief. I BELIEVE that policy decisions should be based on facts and data.

This is the best system we had. But that doesn't make it good
Unless you have an alternative system , not sure what your point is here.

(hint: keeping the same system but paying those operating it less is NOT a different system, it's just a more political palatable way of saying income redistribution)

I didn't know that I have to write a thesis on a forum so you don't get all rilled up with a different opinion. Also I do not see your arguments and I don't think that I am the only one who should defend their case.

1, I really doubt that the amount of you writing (well, unless you not writing is an option?) would have much of any impact on my annoyance. It was your (shitty) argument and (unsupported) conclusion that irritated me.

  1. I'll lay out the argument in digestible bits for you then big guy:
    a. Free markets, in general and in the long-run, allocate society resources most effectively.
    b. As a result, since companies are not forced to hire bankers and there a variety of bankers to choose from (which exist on a wide spectrum of quality & cost), the current level of banker compensation indicates that they provide a service of significant value to the average potential client.

For my defense, I offer you every single Econ 101 textbook ever fucking written and the outstanding level of human potential unlocked since the advent of the modern financial system.

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Jun 8, 2017

Truth is that I tried to avoid these kind of answers you are giving me by giving you some question to think about but it seems you just rushed over them just to answer me and (seem?) more educated and smart than I am.
We wont be able to come into an understanding . Sorry

Bonus point. The whole financial system is supposed to be an efficient way allocating global resources. You don't need 2 PhDs to know that huge amounts of money sitting in an account don't really help anyone.
Also tell me why a fucking analyst in a BB making 100k+ a year for a job that a monkey could do is entitled to that salary instead of a young scientist or even a garbage man?

Maybe you should start reading more than just Econ 101 books.

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May 19, 2017

Truth is that I tried to avoid these kind of answers you are giving me by giving you some question to think about but it seems you just rushed over them just to answer me and (seem?) more educated and smart than I am.

Dude, what does this sentence even mean? Wanna explain the 'kind' of answers you're referring to and why you wanted to avoid them?

We wont be able to come into an understanding because the things I am addressing are more into the fundamental structure of the econ system and society and you just peck the surface of them.

I love that you give me shit for writing too much, then proceed to say I'm just 'pecking at the surface' and avoiding your 'fundamental' insights (btw, being anti-capitalism is hardly a novel position, unless you're a 16 year-old girl at her first party in college).

Bonus point. The whole financial system is supposed to be an efficient way allocating global resources. You don't need 2 PhDs to know that huge amounts of money sitting in an account don't really help anyone.

Think about your position here - you're arguing that the current financial system leads to under-investment because the bankers it enriches just sit on the cash?

(pay attention here)

The fractional banking system is almost universally recognized as the single greatest factor increasing the money supply and capital investment.

In addition, there TONS of other rich people sitting on MORE cash - why do you think bankers are such a special case?????

Also tell me why a fucking analyst in a BB making 100k+ a year for a job that a monkey could do is entitled to that salary instead of a young scientist or even a garbage man?

a. They're not entitled to it. They earn it.
b. Because they work harder for more hours doing that monkey shit.
c. Because banking services are more price inelastic than garbage collecting etc.

Dude. For real, you should get a hobby or something. Maybe you should start reading more than just Econ 101 books.

Yea, I should be more like you and spend my time writing inarticulate shit on the internet complaining about other people being paid 'too much'.

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May 20, 2017

"a. They're not entitled to it. They earn it.
b. Because they work harder for more hours doing that monkey shit.
c. Because banking services are more price inelastic than garbage collecting etc."

These points here are exactly your problem. I never said that im against capitalism , just that this kind of capitalism is bad. The thing is that the change is going to come and then people like you, who are doing close circuit loops in their logic are gonna wonder what and why.

"The fractional banking system is almost universally recognized as the single greatest factor increasing the money supply and capital investment. " this is closed circuit logic.

Well ofc in WSO where most of the pople are concerned with whether or not they should suicide because the interview with the BB went sideways a critisism on the current capitalistic system is going to hit a wall. I don't enjoy the MS but they were expected.

Sorry for wasting your time, you probably didn't get out anything from the convo.

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May 20, 2017

just that this kind of capitalism is bad. The thing is that the change is going to come and then people like you, who are doing close circuit loops in their logic are gonna wonder what and why.

What kind of capitalism? What's the alternative variety of capitalism you're proposing?

"The fractional banking system is almost universally recognized as the single greatest factor increasing the money supply and capital investment. " this is closed circuit logic.

How so? You claim bankers get paid too much, resulting in that money not being used productively. I point out that the modern banking system has vastly increased the supply of capital available for investment. Walk me through your position if you think I missed something.

Well ofc in WSO where most of the pople are concerned with whether or not they should suicide because the interview with the BB went sideways a critisism on the current capitalistic system is going to hit a wall. I don't enjoy the MS but they were expected.Sorry for wasting your time, you probably didn't get out anything from the convo.

Well, since you responded to my points with either ad hominem insults or just said 'I missed the point / am incapable of understanding your deeper truths etc', it's hard to take your faux apology very seriously. Happy to listen to the extent you want to present your position / an actual argument mate.

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May 13, 2017

Because they are scape goats used by politicians when in fact the #1 source of inequality is government greed and people's own stupid life choices. People are happy to blame anyone but themselves.

All we do is sell companies and securities. MBS was the result of Clinton being a moron and banks transferring their risks.

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Jun 8, 2017

Yeah man, it's "cool" to hate on finance these days, and ironically the vast majority of the people who do know nothing about it. Fuck em all, man. Fuck em all. The judgment you were receiving is a reflection of them, not you.

Jun 8, 2017

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

Jun 8, 2017
IlliniProgrammer:

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

Seeing as how I'm a current CS major, that too has gotten me a wide range of responses. But the best one has to be when you're chatting up some girl and lay that bomb down and they can't believe you're not a complete nerd/introvert.

Jun 8, 2017
SirBarney:
IlliniProgrammer:

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

Seeing as how I'm a current CS major, that too has gotten me a wide range of responses. But the best one has to be when you're chatting up some girl and lay that bomb down and they can't believe you're not a complete nerd/introvert.

"Lay that bomb down?"

I think even Illini would admit that being a programmer is a low status job.

Jun 8, 2017
holla_back:
SirBarney:
IlliniProgrammer:

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

Seeing as how I'm a current CS major, that too has gotten me a wide range of responses. But the best one has to be when you're chatting up some girl and lay that bomb down and they can't believe you're not a complete nerd/introvert.

"Lay that bomb down?"

I think even Illini would admit that being a programmer is a low status job.

Definitely did not mean to imply that, I was implying how CS has a pretty bad stereotype of programmers being nerdy/introverted/shy/weird

Jun 8, 2017
holla_back:

"Lay that bomb down?"

I think even Illini would admit that being a programmer is a low status job.

Spoken like a true douche bag. Apparently the gist of the post went completely over your head.

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Jun 8, 2017
rufiolove:
holla_back:

"Lay that bomb down?"

I think even Illini would admit that being a programmer is a low status job.

Spoken like a true douche bag. Apparently the gist of the post went completely over your head.

How am I speaking like a douchebag? I certainly don't brag about being an engineer.

Jun 8, 2017
holla_back:

I think even Illini would admit that being a programmer is a low status job.

I would simply say there is an extremely strong correlation between comp and competence/work ethic for programmers and engineers. And there are programmers who make more than folks on the business side. At the risk of being a smug bastard... nah, I won't go there. :D

Bottom line is that saying "programmer" is a lot more relatable to the average person than "quant".

Jun 8, 2017
IlliniProgrammer:

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

So you seek approval of other people so much that you're even afraid to tell them that you do for the living?

Jun 8, 2017
JeremyLinMVP:

So you seek approval of other people so much that you're even afraid to tell them that you do for the living?

LOL, it is what I do for a living. 50% of my time is spent in Java.

I want to have a conversation with people. If I tell folks outside of industry I'm a quant, one of four things happens:

1.) We're no longer equals. They assume I'm smarter than them, and the conversation shuts down.
2.) I get accused of market manipulation and being responsible for every crash and market event of the past five years.
3.) I look like a smug douche.
4.) "Can I get a job?"

No, I just say I'm a programmer at a bank. I want to have a conversation with folks, and I don't want to carry a lot of baggage into it.

Jun 8, 2017
IlliniProgrammer:

1.) We're no longer equals. They assume I'm smarter than them, and the conversation shuts down.

Seems like you're hanging around with the wrong people.

Jun 8, 2017
IlliniProgrammer:
JeremyLinMVP:

So you seek approval of other people so much that you're even afraid to tell them that you do for the living?

LOL, it is what I do for a living. 50% of my time is spent in Java.

I want to have a conversation with people. If I tell folks outside of industry I'm a quant, one of four things happens:

1.) We're no longer equals. They assume I'm smarter than them, and the conversation shuts down.
2.) I get accused of market manipulation and being responsible for every crash and market event of the past five years.
3.) I look like a smug douche.
4.) "Can I get a job?"

No, I just say I'm a programmer at a bank. I want to have a conversation with folks, and I don't want to carry a lot of baggage into it.

Good list, I would add 5) People try to figure out how they can take advantage of you or get something from you. Personally, I don't work at a hedge fund, "I'm a financial analyst -- you know, a bean counter basically."

Jun 8, 2017
IlliniProgrammer:

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

At least say something that is equally as tough to enter and makes as much money. ie: Neurosurgeon.
If a girl hears"programmer," she thinks GEEK.

Jun 8, 2017
Connor:
IlliniProgrammer:

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

At least say something that is equally as tough to enter and makes as much money. ie: Neurosurgeon.
If a girl hears"programmer," she thinks GEEK.

Some girls dig geeks dude...

Jun 8, 2017
Connor:
IlliniProgrammer:

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

At least say something that is equally as tough to enter and makes as much money. ie: Neurosurgeon.
If a girl hears"programmer," she thinks GEEK.

Meh, she probably heard hang gliding first, and calling myself a "banker" after talking about hang gliding is liable to get me labeled something worse than "geek" ("smug asshole"). So I'd rather just hopefully try to make myself hard to label.

If she hears "quant" or "banker", you will sometimes be able to see her iris start contorting her pupils into the shape of dollar signs. If you're wise, that's not something you want to see. So financial programmer is probably the best route to go, IMHO.

Jun 8, 2017

Next time somebody tries to ream you out for being a financebro, just take your wad of 100s and make it rain all over him/her.

Example:

http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/165248-1/Keffiyeh_thr...

Jun 8, 2017

You'll be hearing that a lot more OP.

My brother has told me, whenever people ask you what you do in the future and you're working in finance, just say you're a Loan Officer.

Jun 8, 2017

Who cares what other people think. I will never understand this crap. If someone gives you shit about what you do just walk away from them. Not only are the uninformed, but they are rude and ignorant. Try and not lower yourself by hanging around people with so little class.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

Jun 8, 2017

Take comfort in the fact that it's their stupidity, not anything that you've done. It doesn't have anything to do with Raj and his ilk - people like them have been around since the beginning. It has never stopped, it never will, and it's not something unique to finance. There is just as much fraud (if not more) in the medical profession, or any other profession, so don't find yourself apologizing for your industry because of them. I know it's tough when it's family, but the sad fact is most people are stupid and gullible.

As for your girl problems, isn't that a nice screening method? Do you really want to be with a girl that stupid? Regardless, never tell a girl you work in finance (or IT/accounting/law/whatever sector you work in). Unless you're a psychic detective, bounty hunter, or other profession which by its very name is awesome, always take the essence of your job and explain in simplest terms why you add value, which makes anything sound much cooler. E.g. "What I do is pretty complex, but here's the deal. Right now, our economy is having a hard time getting off the ground because business owners can't get the money they need to grow and hire people. My job is to find a way to responsibly get millions of dollars to these businesses so they can grow, and so people can feed their families."

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Jun 8, 2017

/commeceRant
I'm just a dude with a job, and have no use for anyone that needs to drag their worldview into everything all the time. My liberal relatives have their 401K in my company, so I kinda chuckled when I learned that. It also helps that my bank didn't take any government money, so there's that. I've gone to the bar and hung out with OWS people, just to hear what they have to say. Some were cool people with good points. Some were jerks: one guy started getting rude about how 'corporations are evil and so am I', so I stood up on the table and shouted "YEAH MOTHERFUCKER I OPPRESS YOU NOW LET'S DO ANOTHER SHOT"....true story.
/endRant

This is just a job. My understanding of people that judge you by your profession is that they're not worth knowing. If someone is cool, great, if not, screw 'em.

Just do your thing.

Jun 8, 2017

Totally see where you're coming from. I don't care about what people do for a living, I value other things. And I don't really respect people who put a lot of importance on job title.
BTW, I think the stigma will remain, we are entering the "Evil professions" club. I hear it was founded by lawyers.

Jun 8, 2017

Lol. I love the responses to this thread. Essentially, "Fuck them, it's because they are stupid." Typical WSO.

But here's a thread called "Do you care about your 'value-add' to society". I think many of the responses speak for themselves.

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/do-you-care-...
And here's one where the WSO members "vomit" after reading Robert Shiller's speech telling young financiers that they play an important role and should use that role to make the world a better place.

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/my-speech-to...
You complain that now people look at financiers as second-class douchebags. I disagree, I believe they are seen as first class douchebags and that is certainly how they behave on this site; if that's any indication of the people going into finance. The site is divided into Targets and non-targets for crying out loud, think about that stratification.

You're crying because you want respect, stop being a b*tch and do what you need/want to do. You don't need to create a thread on a Wall Street forum to try and justify your worth and morality (the two reasons wall street is being vilified). Many of the young financiers on this website have demonstrated they lack either quality, if you have them, demonstrate it yourself because very few going into finance are going to demonstrate it for you. Though i have met some fantastic people who work on wall street.

ie, earn your own respect because it certainly isn't going to come from hanging out in this crowd, and deservedly so IMO.

Jun 8, 2017
happyhippo:

"Do you care about your 'value-add' to society"

Let's cut to the heart of this: I DO and WE DO. I have personally helped thousands of people from my little perch in this jungle, ensuring that people's retirment money is safely and wisely planned for. The rest of the people at my company are typically honest, smart, dedicated, hard working people who advise every day people on how to invest their money: we make mistakes, we've fired jerks, and we've made some bad calls....but for the most part we actually help people in a very personal and direct way: year after year, and generation after generation.

Just because some morons in some banks screwed up does not make our profession 'evil'. Are all doctors evil because some botch a surgery or because medical billing/insurance in this country is a joke? NO. Are architects evil because a bridge sometimes bites the dust? NO.

Bad things happen, that's life, don't turn it all into a conspiracy.

So don't make such sweeping generalizations about my industry or the people in it. I regard this as a personal attack on myself and my livelihood when people imply that we are anything but a legitimate business. And that's what this is....a business. We're not missionaries or charity workers, but we do our part creating and protecting wealth. And a lot of us do volunteer work on the side: I'm a partner at a charity.

If you really want to play the blame game and get technical, blame former president Bush for perpetuating an artificially low interest rate environment to impose his worldview...or blame the legion of idiots who re-elected him. Ultimately, systemic accountability lies with the government, and they absolutely did create an environment where business was forced to overheat and rules were relaxed...people screwing up and/or taking advantage of that is simple human nature. Voting for an idiot, however, was a deliberate decision.

/endRant

Jun 8, 2017

Whoa, I think I glossed over an important part. Why the hell are you allowing liberal family members to shit on you? This is far worse of a man crime than being ashamed of what you do. You need to put them in their place.

I literally cannot fathom any single person in my family giving me shit about anything. Does this shit happen in real life? Tear them a new asshole and send them packing like the pussies they are.

Guys, honestly, family members talk shit to you? Please tell me this is an exaggeration and not what really happens.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

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Jun 8, 2017
TNA:

Whoa, I think I glossed over an important part. Why the hell are you allowing liberal family members to shit on you? This is far worse of a man crime than being ashamed of what you do. You need to put them in their place.

I literally cannot fathom any single person in my family giving me shit about anything. Does this shit happen in real life? Tear them a new asshole and send them packing like the pussies they are.

I'm not sure this is the best advice for winning friends and influencing people.

Guys, honestly, family members talk shit to you? Please tell me this is an exaggeration and not what really happens.

They respect me, I respect their politics. We all get along. And my aunt has more to worry about with her son working for a defense contractor.

Jun 8, 2017
IlliniProgrammer:
TNA:

Whoa, I think I glossed over an important part. Why the hell are you allowing liberal family members to shit on you? This is far worse of a man crime than being ashamed of what you do. You need to put them in their place.

I literally cannot fathom any single person in my family giving me shit about anything. Does this shit happen in real life? Tear them a new asshole and send them packing like the pussies they are.

I'm not sure this is the best advice for winning friends and influencing people.

Guys, honestly, family members talk shit to you? Please tell me this is an exaggeration and not what really happens.

They respect me, I respect their politics. We all get along. And my aunt has more to worry about with her son working for a defense contractor.

I don't know. I've just never encountered a smug family member or someone who would even think of talking shit to me. Honestly, I would just stop associating with them and stop going home for any holidays. You are making money now, no need for family members, especially those who think they can disrespect you to your face.

And I reiterate, who cares what other people think. Finance has always been hated by people and that will never change. The goal is to make as much money as possible and pay as little taxes as possible and ignore everything else.

Way I look at it we are all whores to the system, some people are just more open about it than others. The day of doctors helping and lawyers defending are long gone. Everyone is doing it for the cash.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

Jun 8, 2017
TNA:

I don't know. I've just never encountered a smug family member or someone who would even think of talking shit to me. Honestly, I would just stop associating with them and stop going home for any holidays. You are making money now, no need for family members, especially those who think they can disrespect you to your face.

I haven't either. But I do get berated every once in a while for working in finance.

And I reiterate, who cares what other people think. Finance has always been hated by people and that will never change. The goal is to make as much money as possible and pay as little taxes as possible and ignore everything else.

You're only getting half of Marcus Aurelius and Seneca. Yes, you shouldn't care too much about what other people think. But you should also care about doing your duty. Hindus and Buddhists call it Dharma; the Stoics and Christians called it fulfilling your responsibilities.

Aurelius, in his writings to himself, talks about the retreat into his soul being a better retreat than any villa out there. That even as an emperor, he didn't need that. His soul was enough. His soul was secure and serene because he actively chose to do the right thing, even when it wasn't necessarily easy for him. In order to confidently stand in who you are, you have to do the right thing. (I am not an expert at this. I am just the nerdy quant who sits over in the corner.)

Way I look at it we are all whores to the system, some people are just more open about it than others. The day of doctors helping and lawyers defending are long gone. Everyone is doing it for the cash.

We are all broken people trying to do the right thing, and tripping every step of the way. You and I both follow a religion where God tells us we're mere "sheep". Let's not get too smug. :-)

Jun 8, 2017

lol @ entire thread

vilifying the young "bankers" is like putting on a war crimes trial for the lackey who brought hitler his strawberry jam for breakfast

Jun 8, 2017

And what is this crap about being afraid to tell people what you do. Drop the finance bomb and when someone pisses and moans about evil bankers tell them to piss off and laugh at them.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

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Jun 8, 2017

Not trying to be smug, but you catch my drift. Mother Theresa can talk shit to me, but most other people should probably STFU.

Either way my entire mantra is simply to be centered with who you are and what you do. People who talk shit about other people and their career are ignorant, little and rude. Not people you want to associate with. Especially someone who does this as soon as they meet you in the bar.

Finance is important, but in a more complex way. Everyone has first hand experience with many other careers, but finance is 2nd or 3rd degree removed beneficial. You need to understand the workings of the machine to understand how the various aspects of finance benefit all of us.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

Jun 8, 2017
TNA:

Either way my entire mantra is simply to be centered with who you are and what you do. People who talk shit about other people and their career are ignorant, little and rude. Not people you want to associate with. Especially someone who does this as soon as they meet you in the bar.

Sure, but on the flip side, we shouldn't go out of our way to make an issue of ourselves. Banking has always been an issue on some level. Either from bankers being rich to bankers being villains to X, Y, or Z.

A conversation with folks is a connection at the human level. If you want to talk with someone, why go out of your way to make that difficult?

Finance is important, but in a more complex way. Everyone has first hand experience with many other careers, but finance is 2nd or 3rd degree removed beneficial. You need to understand the workings of the machine to understand how the various aspects of finance benefit all of us.

Of course. But an oversupply of finance can also be detrimental. Do you understand the workings of the machine well enough to also understand that a lot of these folks have a point on at least a couple issues?

Seems like you're hanging around with the wrong people.

LOL! They're the right people! They keep me NORMAL!

Jun 8, 2017
IlliniProgrammer:
TNA:

Either way my entire mantra is simply to be centered with who you are and what you do. People who talk shit about other people and their career are ignorant, little and rude. Not people you want to associate with. Especially someone who does this as soon as they meet you in the bar.

Sure, but on the flip side, we shouldn't go out of our way to make an issue of ourselves. Banking has always been an issue on some level. Either from bankers being rich to bankers being villains to X, Y, or Z.

A conversation with folks is a connection at the human level. If you want to talk with someone, why go out of your way to make that difficult?

Finance is important, but in a more complex way. Everyone has first hand experience with many other careers, but finance is 2nd or 3rd degree removed beneficial. You need to understand the workings of the machine to understand how the various aspects of finance benefit all of us.

Of course. But an oversupply of finance can also be detrimental. Do you understand the workings of the machine well enough to also understand that a lot of these folks have a point?

If I am at the bar and someone gives me shit about my job, someone I don't know, then no, I don't want to talk to them. I mean this is the whole point. This isn't a discussion on the merits of XYZ, this is an ignorant douche crapping on your job because of some tripe that they watched on the Daily Show.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

Jun 8, 2017

When my gf's mother who is ultra-liberal (tells me she hopes I have a son - a gay one) tries to imply everyone in finance is crooked, I just let her talk and talk. Give people enough rope and they'll hang themselves with their ignorance.

Just ask simple questions about basic instruments until they openly admit they do not know anything about banking.

A good example would be the mortgage crisis and how it's all the bank's fault. I would say "well you know how CDO's are put together right?" and then shut up and let her make a fool of herself. I guarantee 95% of the people who have an opinion on JPM will look at you with bewilderment when you ask them to explain what IG9 is.

Jun 8, 2017
NYU:

When my gf's mother who is ultra-liberal (tells me she hopes I have a son - a gay one) tries to imply everyone in finance is crooked, I just let her talk and talk. Give people enough rope and they'll hang themselves with their ignorance.

Just ask simple questions about basic instruments until they openly admit they do not know anything about banking.

A good example would be the mortgage crisis and how it's all the bank's fault. I would say "well you know how CDO's are put together right?" and then shut up and let her make a fool of herself. I guarantee 95% of the people who have an opinion on JPM will look at you with bewilderment when you ask them to explain what IG9 is.

Dude, let me know when you are single again cause that relationship is DOA.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

Jun 8, 2017
TNA:
NYU:

When my gf's mother who is ultra-liberal (tells me she hopes I have a son - a gay one) tries to imply everyone in finance is crooked, I just let her talk and talk. Give people enough rope and they'll hang themselves with their ignorance.

Just ask simple questions about basic instruments until they openly admit they do not know anything about banking.

A good example would be the mortgage crisis and how it's all the bank's fault. I would say "well you know how CDO's are put together right?" and then shut up and let her make a fool of herself. I guarantee 95% of the people who have an opinion on JPM will look at you with bewilderment when you ask them to explain what IG9 is.

Dude, let me know when you are single again cause that relationship is DOA.

She's a 3 decade, 2 pack a day smoker. That's all the supplemental info. needed

Jun 8, 2017

Every time I meet OWS people, I can only think of this:
Starting @1:20, http://youtu.be/Ssa31hmBqVQ?t=1m20s

Jun 8, 2017

If I am at the bar and someone gives me shit about my job, someone I don't know, then no, I don't want to talk to them. I mean this is the whole point. This isn't a discussion on the merits of XYZ, this is an ignorant douche crapping on your job because of some tripe that they watched on the Daily Show.

OK, maybe you don't. But:

1.) Life is better when you don't try to inspire anger in others.
2.) Life is better when you don't try to inspire jealousy in others.

If you have the opportunity to keep your role more generic that mitigates (1) and (2) in the average person, why not do it? You don't have to care about what other people think of you, but part of being human is that you care about THEM and their health.

Our success should be a blessing to others, not a curse. It isn't my entire responsiblity that someone would hate me or be jealous of me, but it isn't their entire responsibility either. So why not make it easier for everybody?

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Jun 8, 2017

Good piece, Billy Ray. Your experience tells us about several things, one being the vertical economic mobility of some and the envy of others who come from the same same economic strata. That envy, particularly of entrepreneurs and finance people, takes a lot of expressions. Frankly, I think you need to be able to defend yourself, to do at least some thinking about the literal productive effects of what it is that you do. Be proud of it. I know, a lot of WSO monkeys disparage any thinking about the literal value of financial functions. But nobody on WSO can be unaware that the financial community is under attack from many directions. Right now, only the bad behavior of the financial community is reported. Without defenders it will be regulated to death. The political hacks who want to do that know about the public sentiment you ran into, have encouraged it, and rely on it for support.

Chaos2Order = JRE, Ph.D.

View my WSO Blog

Jun 8, 2017

Wow, this spiraled a bit out of control. I think people may have slightly missed the point of my original post. First, my family is not "talking shit" to me, and I wouldn't allow that. I was simply making the point that unfortunately the few bad eggs in the business, which there surely are, have made it difficult for many of us to garner the same level of respect for our industry that we once had.

Secondly, the fact that some of the responders think I was posting this looking for some sort of sympathy is just wrong. I don't give a shit what anyone else thinks. I know what I do. I know how it contributes to society. I know how hard I worked to get where I am. And I know that I actually enjoy what I do and I enjoy the people I work with. And I am proud of it. As I said at the end of my OP, if someone doesn't understand that, f*** 'em.

I luckily have a job that happens to allow me to enjoy all of the amazing things this world has to offer. It allows me to do all the things I enjoy and spend time with the people I care about. So, if that means I have to deal with some people who may not "get it" that's fine by me, I could really give two shits what you think.

And @happyhippo... glad thats like your second post on this site. I award your response NO respect, and definitely could care less what you think. And I do add value, if you don't see that, its your problem.

Jun 8, 2017

These are two seperate issues:

1) On the family side....unfortunately you cant change your family. When this happens to me (and it does) I just laugh it off..who cares what aunt tilley thinks? Just change the subject and move on its not worth figting about.

2) Being in finance has never been a job that turns women on especially girls you meet at a bar who are there to have fun. It is a boring job. Programmer is even worse actually. If a girl asks you what you do for a living the conversation is already turning boring anyway and you are losing control of the situation. Point being that the girl is only going to be turned off by your job if you she isnt attracted to you....when girls ask me my job i have fun with it, make them guess, say im a porn star, etc and when the actual truth comes out she doesnt care she's just having a good time. Seperately you learn alot about yourself by making girls guess your job...if you ask that and girls guess something boring like a banker then you may want to think about why you come off as a boring person on first impression.

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Jun 8, 2017
Bondarb:

These are two seperate issues:

1) On the family side....unfortunately you cant change your family. When this happens to me (and it does) I just laugh it off..who cares what aunt tilley thinks? Just change the subject and move on its not worth figting about.

2) Being in finance has never been a job that turns women on especially girls you meet at a bar who are there to have fun. It is a boring job. Programmer is even worse actually. If a girl asks you what you do for a living the conversation is already turning boring anyway and you are losing control of the situation. Point being that the girl is only going to be turned off by your job if you she isnt attracted to you....when girls ask me my job i have fun with it, make them guess, say im a porn star, etc and when the actual truth comes out she doesnt care she's just having a good time. Seperately you learn alot about yourself by making girls guess your job...if you ask that and girls guess something boring like a banker then you may want to think about why you come off as a boring person on first impression.

Totally agree... I personally tell everyone that I invented the Shake Weight

Jun 8, 2017
rufiolove:

I personally tell everyone that I invented the Shake Weight

nice. then you just gotta subtly undermine her self esteem by tellen her "in fact u could probably use a shake weight to burn off some of that shake weight"

Jun 8, 2017
Bondarb:

These are two seperate issues:

1) On the family side....unfortunately you cant change your family. When this happens to me (and it does) I just laugh it off..who cares what aunt tilley thinks? Just change the subject and move on its not worth figting about.

2) Being in finance has never been a job that turns women on especially girls you meet at a bar who are there to have fun. It is a boring job. Programmer is even worse actually. If a girl asks you what you do for a living the conversation is already turning boring anyway and you are losing control of the situation. Point being that the girl is only going to be turned off by your job if you she isnt attracted to you....when girls ask me my job i have fun with it, make them guess, say im a porn star, etc and when the actual truth comes out she doesnt care she's just having a good time. Seperately you learn alot about yourself by making girls guess your job...if you ask that and girls guess something boring like a banker then you may want to think about why you come off as a boring person on first impression.

Another great post by Bondarb... +1 SB

I usually say "I'm a kept man" or "i used to be an underwear model" with a straight face... It takes a few seconds for them to figure out that I'm not being serious and we continue flirting from there; by the time girls find out what I do we're already having a great time and have set our ideologies and hang-ups aside. I have friends who say they're security guards or garbage collectors and that approach works well too. You can't pretty much choose any job that doesn't suit a white collar guy and make it flirty. Eventually, at that night or later, you will disclose your job and have to be comfortable with it. It's just a job and they're more interested in dating the man not the stereotype. I'm in real estate pe though so it's easier for me as I'm not as big a parasite as the rest of you guys*...

As to those who decide to cut off ties to their families and to stop going to gatherings... WOW... You guys have serious issues and need to work on your family relationships. Your banks/employers will toss you on the street the moment it suits them. Blood is thicker than water.

Banker's rep...

Bankers and finance getting a bad rep isn't something new. Only for a very short period in the go-go 80s and in the Thatcher / Reagan years was it socially desirable to be a banker (even then marginally so and in some cases people were extremely hostile to bankers then). For the few centuries before that time bankers as a class were seen as undesirable and a necessary evil of an industrialising/industrial society by most people. Before that people who practised banking/lending were social outcasts and demonised by the major religions, societies and throughout literature (e.g. Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice). Society has never loved it's financiers so don't expect them to start now, especially so soon after you've ruined the party for everyone else.

The reason a lot of you youngsters are confused is, apart from a seemingly lack of historical context, that the rhetoric you know is different from the rest of society (i.e. you don't know that you are screwing them). Bankers talk about synergies, efficiencies, shareholder value, protecting IP, "efficient" markets, etc... but to the rest of society it means losing jobs and livelihoods, union busting, cutting government services, denial of healthcare, private autocracy, wage slavery, hijacking the government/democratic process, private monopolies, hazardous foods/cars/products, tax dodging, etc... Then you wonder why they don't embrace you with open arms when you tell them you're a banker?

* N.B. Don't take it too personally guys. It's there for comedic effect

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Jun 8, 2017

Capitalism is the best economic system. That being said, it does leave many opportunities to be exploited. The reason financiers get shit is because the "bad" stories obviously get more media attention than the "good" stories. People have no interest in financial happenings that go well, but they damn sure wanna know about when they're getting fucked. That's why people hate on it, because of the actions of a small amount of people. 1 bad story will always get WAYYYY more press than 100 good stories. I'd say next time someone gives you shit, to explain this and how you are one of the "good" guys but at the end of the day they'd probably have no idea wtf you're talking about.

If you're a good guy, yea it sucks you're losing respect because of OTHER ppl's actions. If you're a bad guy GFY because not only are you sending the reputation of an entire profession to shit, but you're also causing regulations to have to be installed that are further sending it to shit.

GBS

Jun 8, 2017

It's like people complain about unemployment being too high but then they complain about others working jobs they don't approve of. You can't win with leftists.

Jun 8, 2017

Hu... Do you you want people not working in Finance to give you candies on top of your bonus?
Yea people have an opinion about finance, so what?
My grand mother thinks I am a teller... My friends think I bring in 500K a year... Some occupy guy thinks am a twat...

Let people make their own opinions of you. Prove them wrong. Don't be a twat and get along with your life. You are a banker, wow! People don't think you are super smart and driven, oh my! That must be tough!!!

Jun 8, 2017

Liberalism is a mental disorder... plain and simple.

    • 1
Jun 8, 2017
jeffsmonte:

Liberalism is a mental disorder... plain and simple.

Do you know what liberalism is? You're an idiot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

    • 1
Jun 8, 2017
WSJ123:
jeffsmonte:

Liberalism is a mental disorder... plain and simple.

Do you know what liberalism is? You're an idiot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Gotta agree with jeffsmonte here cheif. However it isn't a clear cut mental disorder. I guess its kinda like a court case where a definite crime was commited, but there's always the option for the insanity defense.

Also the first sentence from your Wikipedia link : "Liberalism is a political ideology or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and the free exercise of religion."

While this may have been the definition once upon a time, no one in their right mind would say that modern-day liberalism in the US explicitly espouses constitutionalism (2nd Amendment?), capitalism (HAH!!!), or exercise of free religion (more like eradication of religion, especially Christianity).

Jun 8, 2017
whitecollarandsuspenders:
WSJ123:
jeffsmonte:

Liberalism is a mental disorder... plain and simple.

Do you know what liberalism is? You're an idiot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Gotta agree with jeffsmonte here cheif. However it isn't a clear cut mental disorder. I guess its kinda like a court case where a definite crime was commited, but there's always the option for the insanity defense.

Also the first sentence from your Wikipedia link : "Liberalism is a political ideology or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and the free exercise of religion."

While this may have been the definition once upon a time, no one in their right mind would say that modern-day liberalism in the US explicitly espouses constitutionalism (2nd Amendment?), capitalism (HAH!!!), or exercise of free religion (more like eradication of religion, especially Christianity).

How the hell do you guys call being a liberal a mental disorder. I can't believe there are people like you that exist in our society.

Jun 8, 2017
WSJ123:
whitecollarandsuspenders:
WSJ123:
jeffsmonte:

Liberalism is a mental disorder... plain and simple.

Do you know what liberalism is? You're an idiot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Gotta agree with jeffsmonte here cheif. However it isn't a clear cut mental disorder. I guess its kinda like a court case where a definite crime was commited, but there's always the option for the insanity defense.

Also the first sentence from your Wikipedia link : "Liberalism is a political ideology or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally liberals support ideas such as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, and the free exercise of religion."

While this may have been the definition once upon a time, no one in their right mind would say that modern-day liberalism in the US explicitly espouses constitutionalism (2nd Amendment?), capitalism (HAH!!!), or exercise of free religion (more like eradication of religion, especially Christianity).

How the hell do you guys call being a liberal a mental disorder. I can't believe there are people like you that exist in our society.

I'm pretty sure we are both expressing our conservative views by poking fun at liberalism/leftism/whatever you want to call it. And ummm yeah I think there are a lot of people like me in society.

Jun 8, 2017

Yes, the vilification of Finance people is there. But it has become "cool" to be ignorant. Even the White House feeds on that ignorance by speaking out against private equity. Most people in the US can't even make a logical argument as to how Finance and Wall Street could be so bad and evil. They couldn't tell you the difference between a put, call or futures contract. Most people don't even know that some pensions are invested in private equity. Many of the same middle income people that are against Finance don't even know that they themselves have money invested in it.

Jun 8, 2017

Neurosurgeon ain't cool.

Jun 8, 2017
TraderDaily:

Neurosurgeon ain't cool.

Huh?

Jun 8, 2017

Every time when a girl ask me about 1) where I work, 2) where I live, 3) where I go to school; I secretly cross her off my list. The reasons are 1) she is a gold digger, 2) she is boring, 3) this is not a job interview.

Jun 8, 2017
Human:

Every time when a girl ask me about 1) where I work, 2) where I live, 3) where I go to school; I secretly cross her off my list. The reasons are 1) she is a gold digger, 2) she is boring, 3) this is not a job interview.

I agree. Just say garbage man, and if she stays interested, later on you can say you just cleaned up on the Fischer account.

Jun 8, 2017
Human:

Every time when a girl ask me about 1) where I work, 2) where I live, 3) where I go to school; I secretly cross her off my list. The reasons are 1) she is a gold digger, 2) she is boring, 3) this is not a job interview.

I don't know, man -- these are pretty basic questions that're bound to come up eventually. I'm not saying you should treat dates like job interviews, but come on now.

Jun 8, 2017

[quote=Human]Every time when a girl ask me about 1) where I work, 2) where I live, 3) where I go to school; I secretly cross her off my list. The reasons are 1) she is a gold digger, 2) she is boring, 3) this is not a job interview.[/quote

So true! There's enough to prove and live up to to oneself without having to jump through hoops and run a treadmill to keep some gold digger happy too!

Jun 8, 2017
Human:

Every time when a girl ask me about 1) where I work, 2) where I live, 3) where I go to school; I secretly cross her off my list. The reasons are 1) she is a gold digger, 2) she is boring, 3) this is not a job interview.

If these are the first questions a girl asks upon meeting you, then yes, it's an automatic dealbreaker. But these questions by themselves are harmless ice breakers, and in a first date where you guys are getting to know each other, i don't see how these questions can be avoided. You really think if she asks where you went to college into a one-hour conversation, that somehow means she's a gold-digger? Although I agree with the heart of your post, let's not get too carried away here.

Jun 8, 2017

I think part of the issue is when people ask you what you do, and you respond "I work in finance" - you may be doing it to not draw attention to it, or to save him/her from boredom of actually explaining what you do on a daily basis, but at the same time it can come off as arrogant and if you don't actually tell people what you do, they are left to assume and decide for themselves (AKA money manipulator, destroyer of societies, you get the point).

Focusing on the important part of the post though, next time you are entertaining a lady and she asks you what you do for a living, tell you her you work at a loan company (dumb it down for her) and that you loan out money to businesses who need it to grow and expand. Even if it isn't 100 percent factual, in that one sentence you A) don't' sound general and arrogant, b) actually gave her a more simple and accurate portrayal of what you do so she doesn't assume and C) maybe, just maybe, because i don't want to get carried away here, you even displayed to her how you contribute to modern society.

Alright maybe not C, but you still have A & B. And that is pretty damn good.

Jun 8, 2017

There is no villification of young wall streeters, it's a villification of wall street and it's lack of obvious value creation.

The critics have a point.

Jun 8, 2017
PetEng:

There is no villification of young wall streeters, it's a villification of wall street and it's lack of obvious value creation.

The critics have a point.

Do they? Do most businesses add value to society? Does McDonald's, Philip Morris, Budweiser, defense companies that sponsor war and a host of other businesses really add value to society? McD's is basically an entity that extracts value from society by selling shit food that makes people sick and then passing the costs of that bad behavior on to the government in the form of higher Medicare costs. It's a parasite on society.

If you look around the economy, you will see that a lot things that exist are actually VERY BAD for society. Lots of healthcare companies destroy value. Read the recent dental thread. Many consumer products companies have dubious value propositions. You can extrapolate all sorts of first and second order effects without even trying.

"Wall Street" is a big place. The banking system fucked up, we know that. I won't defend the banks. If you look at a lot of private wealth vehicles though, such as RIAs, HFs, MFs, whatever, that are part of "Wall Street," most of these entities are close to net neutral with a slight positive bias in their value production for society.

Investment funds add value by making the secondary markets more efficient, which adds depth to the primary markets, thereby facilitating capital raises for growing companies that may be adding value. And we pay a shit load of taxes, which in theory adds value (though that's clearly a question with our government). It's not curing cancer and we're not on the short list for the Nobel Prize, but those two things alone have a more positive impact on society than many businesses can claim. And we don't kill anyone in the process.

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Jun 8, 2017
Ravenous:

Investment funds add value by making the secondary markets more efficient, which adds depth to the primary markets, thereby facilitating capital raises for growing companies that may be adding value. And we pay a shit load of taxes, which in theory adds value (though that's clearly a question with our government). It's not curing cancer and we're not on the short list for the Nobel Prize, but those two things alone have a more positive impact on society than many businesses can claim. And we don't kill anyone in the process.

You think our society benefits by massively paying traders and quants to seek higher returns on the secondary market (as opposed to working in a STEM capacity)?

I don't agree.

Siphoning off the top .1% most intelligent portion of our population to work in finance has dubious value to me.

Jun 8, 2017
Ravenous:
PetEng:

There is no villification of young wall streeters, it's a villification of wall street and it's lack of obvious value creation.

The critics have a point.

Do they? Do most businesses add value to society? Does McDonald's, Philip Morris, Budweiser, defense companies that sponsor war and a host of other businesses really add value to society? McD's is basically an entity that extracts value from society by selling shit food that makes people sick and then passing the costs of that bad behavior on to the government in the form of higher Medicare costs. It's a parasite on society.

If you look around the economy, you will see that a lot things that exist are actually VERY BAD for society. Lots of healthcare companies destroy value. Read the recent dental thread. Many consumer products companies have dubious value propositions. You can extrapolate all sorts of first and second order effects without even trying.

"Wall Street" is a big place. The banking system fucked up, we know that. I won't defend the banks. If you look at a lot of private wealth vehicles though, such as RIAs, HFs, MFs, whatever, that are part of "Wall Street," most of these entities are close to net neutral with a slight positive bias in their value production for society.

Investment funds add value by making the secondary markets more efficient, which adds depth to the primary markets, thereby facilitating capital raises for growing companies that may be adding value. And we pay a shit load of taxes, which in theory adds value (though that's clearly a question with our government). It's not curing cancer and we're not on the short list for the Nobel Prize, but those two things alone have a more positive impact on society than many businesses can claim. And we don't kill anyone in the process.

bitch if i want a big mac ill get a big mac and lord help me if i can't spend my money on mcdonalds

Jun 8, 2017

Take it as a badge of honor. People wouldn't hate high finance folks if they didn't make as much money. Jealousy, plain and simple. The same fuckstains who hate on you wouldn't complain if they got a million dollar check for doing absolutely nothing the next day.

My satisfaction with my job (future job) is directly correlated to the number of hippies that hate me. The more people hate me for what I do/how much money I make then the happier I am. That means more and more people are jealous of me because they're worthless retards, the better. I want a job that everyone hates (not in the way you would hate being a plumber or mortician but you get what I mean). Knowing that you are so much better than so many other people at life is intoxicating.

Haters gonna hate bro. They mad cuz they aint.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjy_7haflaM
Just imagine the kids he is walking past are a bunch of dirty hippies yelling at you.

Jun 8, 2017

The critics have a point, but so do Wall Street's proponents.

-I shouldn't have to fill out ten forms to change a light bulb because regulators think I am trying to crash the markets.
-There is a lot of value in lining up investors with businesses.
-Some people really are worth 5x, 10x, 50x, 100x what the average person makes in a year. Often because they do 5x, 10x, 50x the work. Taxes are a different debate (I am fine with progressive taxes), but these folks deserve to be compensated for their work.

Jun 8, 2017

I largely agree with you, but have a few nits to pick:

It's not curing cancer and we're not on the short list for the Nobel Prize, but those two things alone have a more positive impact on society than many businesses can claim. And we don't kill anyone in the process.

Bernie Madoff's investors would disagree with you. So would folks committing suicide in Italy and Greece over a crisis that has been blamed (rightly or wrongly) on the bankers.

Whether Wall Street kills people is about as debatable as whether McDonald's kills people. One thing is for sure though; being unreasonably poor shortens peoples' lives.

Jun 8, 2017

siphon whatever. i had my choice of going on in academia with the string of endless postdocs, dubious chance at teaching at a decent place where the kids wouldn't be mildly retarded, or making a shitload of money in finance and retiring early. every society gets what it deserves in the long run and this one has already decided to take a juicy dump over the heads of people seeking to do pure research that will benefit mankind 100 years down the line. wall street has just given STEM whizzes a second chance because they didn't figure out the first time around that money talks and bullshit walks.

Jun 8, 2017
melvvvar:

siphon whatever. i had my choice of going on in academia with the string of endless postdocs, dubious chance at teaching at a decent place where the kids wouldn't be mildly retarded, or making a shitload of money in finance and retiring early. every society gets what it deserves in the long run and this one has already decided to take a juicy dump over the heads of people seeking to do pure research that will benefit mankind 100 years down the line. wall street has just given STEM whizzes a second chance because they didn't figure out the first time around that money talks and bullshit walks.

We agree.

My point is that regulations should be changed to make it less lucrative to work in finance (yes, I just said that). Our governments economic policy should be geared to increase the wealth/income of the median worker. I believe that is best aided by having a highly robust STEM workforce that generates ideas and growth which can be leveraged globally (thereby making the US economy wealthier). That wealth does trickle down the average joe.

There is a reason that a cop in the US can make 75K/year, versus 10k/year in Mexico. Our robust STEM workforce and innovative ability of US industry being the main reason.

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Jun 8, 2017

I don't agree that the top 0.1% are working on Wall Street even if the top 0.1% of earners are largely concentrated in the industry. Anyone in the top 5% of intelligence can make a good living on Wall Street if they have the right work ethic and can break in.

I don't agree that quant funds are comparable to traditional funds (I should have specified that). Quant funds make the market LESS efficient, not more -- they simply add noise. I'm not saying their returns aren't good and strategies not effective, but from a price equals value stand point, what they are doing is unrelated to market efficiency from what I have gathered.

What STEM capacity are you referring to? Curing cancer? This argument is overblown. What exactly are we so lacking in right now? We import most of our engineers from overseas anyway. Do we need more people working on figuring out how to monetize click ads? That's where the top engineering talent is these days, not something productive.

Jun 8, 2017
Ravenous:

I don't agree that the top 0.1% are working on Wall Street even if the top 0.1% of earners are largely concentrated in the industry. Anyone in the top 5% of intelligence can make a good living on Wall Street if they have the right work ethic and can break in.

The amount of STEM PhDs working in finance is large.

I don't agree that quant funds are comparable to traditional funds (I should have specified that). Quant funds make the market LESS efficient, not more -- they simply add noise. I'm not saying their returns aren't good and strategies not effective, but from a price equals value stand point, what they are doing is unrelated to market efficiency from what I have gathered.

What's your point? My point is that the people who work these funds could be in other jobs.

What STEM capacity are you referring to? Curing cancer? This argument is overblown. What exactly are we so lacking in right now? We import most of our engineers from overseas anyway. Do we need more people working on figuring out how to monetize click ads? That's where the top engineering talent is these days, not something productive.

You're just wrong. You think a society benefits by having less engineers? Engineers - more than any other career - are about finding value, creating efficiencies, and improving mankind. The difference between countries with high per capita amounts of engineers are wildly more successful than those with few amounts.

Jun 8, 2017

I come from a lower middle class family (household income ~$50K), and that's common among my extended family as well. I'd say only 5% of my extended family attended college.

I stopped attending most family gatherings over the past year because they just talk shit non stop. I've been incredibly fortunate during the previous 2 years and made a decent sum of money in finance. I drive a nice car, wear nice clothes, and my family despises me for it. They say it's people like me that causes their foreclosures, cut their jobs, and ruined their lives. I like to think they're just trying to shift blame for their mistakes, but it's tough since they're family.

Jun 8, 2017
professionalmonkey:

I come from a lower middle class family (household income ~$50K), and that's common among my extended family as well. I'd say only 5% of my extended family attended college.

I stopped attending most family gatherings over the past year because they just talk shit non stop. I've been incredibly fortunate during the previous 2 years and made a decent sum of money in finance. I drive a nice car, wear nice clothes, and my family despises me for it. They say it's people like me that causes their foreclosures, cut their jobs, and ruined their lives. I like to think they're just trying to shift blame for their mistakes, but it's tough since they're family.

That must be a true test for you. I have no idea what I would do in that situation, is it with your immidiate family as well?

Jun 8, 2017
professionalmonkey:

I come from a lower middle class family (household income ~$50K), and that's common among my extended family as well. I'd say only 5% of my extended family attended college.

I stopped attending most family gatherings over the past year because they just talk shit non stop. I've been incredibly fortunate during the previous 2 years and made a decent sum of money in finance. I drive a nice car, wear nice clothes, and my family despises me for it. They say it's people like me that causes their foreclosures, cut their jobs, and ruined their lives. I like to think they're just trying to shift blame for their mistakes, but it's tough since they're family.

I come from a similar background (low-income family), but my family is the complete opposite.

All they really care about is how much I (or anybody else in the family) make. I really honestly think that they are guilt-tripping you just because they fucked up on their own dime.

Jun 8, 2017

My brothers (an engineer and an achitect) tell me that every investment banker they have met is " the scum of the earth."

Jun 8, 2017
UkraineTrain:

My brothers (an engineer and an achitect) tell me that every investment banker they have met is " the scum of the earth."

Probably because he is making less money than them.
Haters are just going to hate.

Jun 8, 2017
Human:
UkraineTrain:

My brothers (an engineer and an achitect) tell me that every investment banker they have met is " the scum of the earth."

Probably because he is making less money than them.
Haters are just going to hate.

That's pretty naive.

Do you think his brothers believe professional athletes are the scum of the earth? Or movie producers? Or neurosurgeons? Or business owners?

It's not making money - it's how they make it.

Jun 8, 2017

Its like this, finance is needed and thus the ppl to do it. HOWEVER, to make the claim that these ppl have to be the smartest amongst is not only absurd, it is literally just incorrect. Example: Joe is a genius, Mike is of normal intelligence. Joe gets hired into finance because they're sitting on the cash required to attract someone like Joe. Joe, being human, will go wherever the most money is offered because hey, everybody loves money. Joe goes into finance and creates absurd, opaque financial instruments that send the world economy into shit, because quite frankly, he was smart enough to create them. Would Mike have been smart enough to create them? Mike, figuring hes not smart enough to go into finance, goes into some other field. In this position he will never be able to find cures, teach the youth, create formulas, etc, as well as Joe would have.

Now flip it, the money lies in these other fields thus they are able to attract Joe. Joe does all the previously mentioned things better than Mike could have (obvious gain to society there). Mike, figuring hes not smart enough to get into these fields, goes into finance. Mike doesnt have the mental horsepower Joe did to be able to think up and create these financial instruments (economy doesnt tank). I just dont see any area of finance that Mike is incapable of. Finance just pays the premium for Joe because "y the fuk not? We got the money to spare." They'd be literally retarded to think Mike is incapable of the work.

I just REALLY can't see how someone could make the argument that there isnt a net gain to society from the brain trust exiting finance. You could also argue that this must be preceded by the money doing so

GBS

Jun 8, 2017

Lol, Illini's the only person in this two page thread that has had something both substantial and educated to add.

I guess that statement still stands if I just leave the post at that.... so I'll just add a few things:

if you think that every single person against banking is just jealous you're an idiot. You're one of those dumb people who do the whole, generalizing "everyone just wants money and people who can't get it blame people who do." If you can't see why that's stupid and just flat out wrong, that's just a testament to the intelligence of the finance community (though I'd hope most of you realize this isn't true). Sure, there are plenty of jealous people, but there are also plenty of people who couldn't give a shit about earning massive amounts and legitimately know about banking and think there is a lot wrong with the system. There are plenty of jealous, ignorant people sure. But if you're telling me that everyone who critiques the average banker (who usually is a smug douche, let's face it) is ignorant, stupid, or jealous, you're making a completely undefendable claim. Because a lot of people have problems with banking. And a lot of them know way more about finance than anyone on this forum, and are probably way smarter and more knowledgeable than anyone on this forum. I'm not saying they're all like this. But to blow it off as a none issue because most people who support it are stupid is literally nonsensical.

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Jun 8, 2017

Parents don't like the life you lead? 'Fuck you, Mom and Dad.' See how it feels when you're makin' their fuckin' Lexus payments.

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Jun 8, 2017

Haters gonna hate, this pretty much says it all:

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Jun 8, 2017
adapt or die:

Haters gonna hate, this pretty much says it all:

It's pretty ironic that you would post this in defence of financiers seeing as his rant was against the establishment/polite society, of which bankers are surely one of the most conformist constituents...

I've always found it odd how finance guys and wannabe finance guys try to portray themselves as renegades, or mavericks when the entire culture and role of finance breads conformity and serving established corporate and institutional power structures, etc... Perhaps we're just as human as everyone else and instinctively want to break away from the system, even though this usually manifests itself in starting another finance/corporate venture, or buying experiences where we can lose ourselves, albeit in a conformist manner (bottle service, sports cars, excessive partying, etc...).

Jun 8, 2017

Pretty profound as far as coke-fueled rants go.

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

Jun 8, 2017

People who shit on Finance in many cases have no clue as to what Finance is about. Many of them listen to the bullshit that they see on msnbc or some other similar platform and have no interest in seeking out information themselves and forming their own opinion. For instance, many who would protest derivs have no clue what a deriv was. In high school, years back, I was researching everything I could on Finance and I'm from the South. You've got dumbass kids in NY who grow up within 20 mins of the NYSE and haven't learned a damn thing about high Finance. I had a brokerage account in high school and grew up far away from Wall Street. You've got kids who grew up right near Wall Street, know nothing about it, but yet are avid members of the Occupy Wall Street movement now that they're in their 20ish idealistic, revolutionary phase who are clueless when it comes to Finance but see only their argument.

Jun 8, 2017

willing to be that a good portion of the people complaining in this thread probably took jokes wrong or are completely exaggerating.

Jun 8, 2017

you fucksticks don't know the difference between liberalism and leftism? did you flunk out of remedial school for retards?

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Jun 8, 2017

I'd argue that "liberalism" has become a synonym for "leftism," whatever its origins. Is this totally false?

Jun 8, 2017

im surprised more people don't get this - reputation matters. its that gut reflex people have about our industry that has changed, and honestly, given our recent demonstration of our ability to fuck up their lives, its only natural. do some people not directly responsible get blamed (fx desks) and other get off scott free (regulators), yes. if this bothers you that much, leave. some hot girls, having no incentive to do homework, will brush you off. I don't know enough about middle school teachers to really judge but I still look down on them, judgments and stereotypes are inherent to human nature and it takes effort to withhold them, and sometimes people just can't be bothered.

if you really want to avoid this reaction, and think the stereotype doesn't fit you, you can always dance around the question. personally finance is a large part of who I am right now, both as a way to make money and something interesting I can spend my time doing, and I'd want anyone I was actually considering dating to know about it.

Jun 8, 2017

The American version of English has bastardised the meaning of the word liberal. Most Americans would associate the word "liberal" with policies that constrain freedom, centralise control in a bureaucracy (usually government or some national body) and that intervenes in the private lives of citizens and potentially other countries and communities. This is very inconsistent with the actual meaning of the word (almost the opposite). This is mainly due to the history of US politics (civil war), propaganda from the political right and the rise of the corporation as a dominant force in American society. The way the word Liberal is used as a pejorative is indicative of this. In the US it has lost the meaning it has had in the rest of the English speaking world.

Here's an article comparing the English and US uses of the word http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-10658070The author makes some decent points, but I feel has some biases given his BBC/NPR background.

It's probably worth contrasting this with Classical Liberalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism There are arguments to whether capitalism and the corporate form is antithesis to Classical Liberalism, but that debate is not worth getting into if we're only just learning the meaning of the word "liberal" on WSO...

Jun 8, 2017

There has to be some irony here in college students who pay no taxes and have no assets or income, accuse people perfectly happy to pay 45% taxes for the benefits they receive of having a mental disorder.

Start working, pay said taxes, THEN you have the right to call folks who want higher or lower taxes crazy. What I see instead is a bunch of College Republicans suffering from the Democrat equivalent of Bush Derangement Syndrome.

Jun 8, 2017
IlliniProgrammer:

What I see ... is a bunch of College Republicans suffering from the Democrat equivalent of Bush Derangement Syndrome.

Yes, the good part is that they'll probably shut the hell up after Obama wins so the site can go back to being about finance. I'd be more interested to see more discussion about how politics specifically affects our careers than how some people think the world should be. I'm not sure when it became popular for (1) discussing politics on a professional job board and (2) for redneck bullshit GOP to be the most vocal viewpoint.

I say this as an apolitical observer who wants KNOWLEDGE and not ideology.

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Jun 8, 2017

I don't.

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Jun 8, 2017
DickFuld:

I don't.

Jun 8, 2017
SSits:

DickFuld:I don't.

Jun 8, 2017
DickFuld:

I don't.

Jun 8, 2017

Stop caring about what other people think

Jun 8, 2017

+1
Absolutely agree. I don't say anything when I see someone in IT, the industry I don't like.

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Jun 8, 2017

usually the people who hate everything the Wall Street represents, don't necessarily understand its function

thus you shouldn't give a f, not everything is perfect on the industry but it has its role in our society (and a very important one)

Jun 8, 2017

Just don't talk about it. With my working class family I don't talk about politics or Wall Street on purpose, because I know going into it we'll disagree and the conversation will take an edgier tone than I'd like. That said, if you really get forced into the conversation, it's usually just a quick "did you know my BB actually does x, y, z which has a,b,c positive impacts. And I do 1,2,3, which just several weeks ago allowed me to understand how I was able to help this biotech firm raise money for a new cancer treatment."... since most people don't know what's done on wall Street, just a quick reminder of the good and necessity of the street usually changes the conversation.

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Jun 8, 2017

there have been numerous threads on this, use the search function

a more recent one:
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/why-everyone...
in short:

  1. don't worry about what others think. the people who matter in life know you're a good person or not, and if they really care, they'll strive to learn about why a career in finance does not mean you're bernie madoff
  2. don't engage in these conversations. if someone just wants to berate you, rather than correcting them, just say "well everybody's entitled to their opinion" or something like that. if they ask you what you think, they're legitimately interested, otherwise they just want to blow off steam, and no good can be accomplished by arguing with those people.

I was recently at a cocktail party at a fraternity brother of mine just got engaged to this super liberal girl who said something along the lines of "all people in finance are crooks, financial advisors are crooks, etc" not knowing what I do for a living. neither he nor I corrected her, my fiancee didn't correct her, we just changed the subject "so hilary, how has your hemp necklace business been going?"

I think in 99% of situations, that's the way to go.

for you, since you don't even work in finance, I think you should keep your mouth shut and focus your attention towards networking and bettering your resume. if you actually get into finance, then maybe your family will become curious about what you do, but at this point it seems like you're arguing just for the sake of arguing, which isn't a great quality.

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Jun 8, 2017

Lol @hemp necklace business. Sounds about right

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Jun 8, 2017

How often do you have in-depth conversations about the moral merits of Wall Street? This sounds more like a corny ass freshman thought exercise.

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Jun 8, 2017

I pay them 4.50 and thank them for my morning coffee

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Jun 8, 2017

haha

Jun 8, 2017

You're paying way too much for coffee.

Jun 8, 2017
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Jun 8, 2017