Any other juniors EXHAUSTED due to COVID work-from-home?

LOL I can relate to all this.

Tbh sounds like bad firm culture (or group). Also aren’t you an associate? Should have decent hours and not as an analyst.

I work at an EB but my hours have been 9:30am till maybe 10pm with quite a few down time in between. Deal flow has been a bit slower but still on two executions (buy-side / sell-side).

MDs still respect personal time and won’t expect turns if they gave comments nighttime until early afternoon the next day. Of course all this goes out the window during firedrills during deals but all in all been loving work from home.

I'm with you 110%. My group is normally pretty good in terms of hours, generally in the low 70s on average, but I haven't had a sub 80 hour week since March and haven't had a sub 95 hours week in the past month.

How much the August bonus is haircut will really, really make a difference in what I'm planning for next year

I'm getting killed out here. So much work, some weeks worse than when I was in the office a few months ago.

I'm working way more than before this coronavirus, and I can't even fly abroad to vacation.

This shit is draining.

All of the analysts I'm working with are getting staffed up the ass- they call it live at work as opposed to work from home lul

lol i feel this. i have developed a genuine aversion to the sounds that are made by my work computer whenever i’m pinged

Feel this big time. Same thought has gone through my head weekly especially since CMs came back. Hours are worse than being in the office and all the pointless/unnecessary work has gone through the roof. Feels like people just trying to act busy to position themselves internally. Overkill. People never unplug anymore. I tried to unplug Saturday afternoon after working every weekend the past few weeks and had people texting/calling me about if I was going to turn the deck. Chill out people not like the call is on a Sunday. Feels like the expectations have gotten worse because the thought process is "hey you're at home anyways might as well work". Cue all the hardos who are going to say that's the job I signed up for blah blah blah

im just praying i dont lose my job and get the associate promote by end of year

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Would be interesting to know if this is across all banks: BB/EB/MM or just a subset of them.

What group are you in?

Yeah working from home has been an absolute shitstorm. I never leave my room and am basically on pins and needles til 2-3 am every single night. Have worked every weekend the last 2 months on stupid pitches cuz deal flow has dried and the seniors are grasping at literally anything to get a fee which then leads to endless workflows for the analysts. At least its good to know its not just me and a ton of us are getting fucked, but I'm not sure how long this can last.

Glad finally somebody spoke up

I agree with this and I think the unfortunate thing is that the sanctity of the weekend and / or the small bit of free time that junior bankers had has been completed removed by COVID. MDs are assuming that because a lot of things are shutdown, now you are free to work any and all hours. It's a pretty shitty setup in my opinion.

I'd try to talk to your staffer or a VP / Director and see what they can do. I know at my firm we are trying to prevent this from happening but it does require a constant effort to manage MDs and nobody is aware unless some speaks up.

I'm at one of the EBs known to have bad hours (Moelis/PJT/Lazard) and things have gotten out of control in recent months. Most of my analysts work until 4am almost on a daily basis and I work past 1am most of the time. Can pretty much forget about weekends as we are always working on another useless pitch that is going to end up nowhere in this environment

All of our partners/MDs are scared shitless about not meeting revenue targets so treat every pitch like it's the next $10bn sellside that's going to make them golden for the year. It would probably be like this during any bad year deal flow wise but all of this WFH stuff just exacerbates the situation for all the junior folks

This is the kind of thing that incenses me. Because that is abuse. It's abusive. Yes. Abuse. Y'all read it the word. Abuse

You're absolutely right to be angry. It is so beyond ridiculous. It's completely unnecessary. Sorry to hear.

sorry to hear this guys... anecdotally, all the associates I've been speaking with (recruiting for our mentors and podcast/Q&As, etc) are singing the same tune... they are getting absolutely slammed right now.

Maybe the banks should adopt some sort of time tracking on the computers (maybe they already have this and just cant control the MDs) so they can see you're putting in like 15-18+hr days 6-7 days per week consistently so that they can monitor the kids that aren't sleeping enough.

I have fallen asleep at my desk several times and have woken up to 5 missed phone calls multiple times. What worries me is I do not think this will end, this is the new normal.

Covid proves the old adage my VP used to say is true: "ib is just a bunch of people shoveling shit and piling it on the guy/gal beneath them" MD's stressed for revenues take it out on VP's who take it out on associates. It's unfortunate, but the nature of the beast. I'd speak with your staffer to see if you can catch at least a quick weekend break to catch up on sleep and emphasize that you'll be more refreshed after. If they say no to that, prolly not the best bank / grop to be at long term

It sucks but it's the same situation across the board for almost everyone right now. Just about everyone I know in PE/IB is in shit-eating mode. I am just grateful that our assets haven't nuked themselves and things worked out well.

Might help to think about the positives, like keeping your job during a time of historic unemployment and being lucky not to be a fresh grad, etc...

These shit deals, would they take time away from good deals if they popped up?

Gosh really makes me appreciate the culture of our team. Our MDs/partners are nothing like these sycophants I read about in IB

I wasn’t the first to experience this by any means but it is kinda funny that we’re getting this post now when there was a “wfh is the greatest!” circle jerk on here like 6 weeks ago.

Being back in the office is pretty dope.

We’re definitely buried, though it is at least all for live processes that we’re chasing. I’m constantly torn between feeling depressed and endlessly grateful to have a job (I just read a post from the guy who had to give his dog away because he can’t afford the medicine.. after spending 2 years in IB). Past two weeks I’ve been taking a nap from like 10:30pm to midnight, working until 5:30 and then a second nap from 5:30-7:00am. I need those little pauses, which are great, but I do question the sustainability.

This is more a reflection of the poor deal environment than anything else: everyone is trying to justify why they shouldn’t be laid off. As much as it sucks donkey dick, imagine if you had to commute on top of the hours you were putting in. I’m not in IB but we have been similarly crushed since March and I recently let my boss know that it’s a good thing we were working remotely because the commute on top of all the extra work might have broken me. You just get to a point where you’re too tired to even function. Even now there are days where I almost wish I’d get laid off. Almost.

Still, I’d rather this than be worrying about a paycheck, there’s a lot of folks getting pretty desperate.

This can’t last forever, at some point there will be a shakeout.

THERE ALWAYS IS

I feel the same. This whole "work from home" thing is really turning into a "work is home" arrangement @_@

At least for me I'm not expected to immediately respond to things within hours if the email came in the wee hours of the morning. Maybe its cuz I work in Infrastructure Private Equity and the pace of things here is a lot slower than with traditional IB or Buyout PE.

But I definitely agree that actual working hours are longer now. Every1 wants to make it seem that they're indispensable to the team, so every1 tries doing more work than they've ever had before.

Completely understandable - combination of what you described + being reachable 24/7. MDs know you have nothing else going on, so why not leverage that?

IMO, you need to start pushing back more, otherwise things will not get better. Respond to his email at 8:00am saying you just woke up and can turn as much as possible in the next hour but won't be 100% complete. Call him out on his BS. He'll probably respond saying: "OK, by noon is fine" or some shit.

Bonuses will be shit anyway, so what have you got to lose? You're senior enough and hopefully have built up enough goodwill where people will respect your push back and it won't have any longer-term effects on your experience/bonuses (if anything, could have a positive impact). Hopefully your MDs aren't COMPLETE assholes and will understand. If they don't, just pull the trigger on your 2-week notice email and go join a different bank. You have more leverage than you think.

(FYI, this is coming from experience. Life has gotten materially better after adopting an IDGAF mentality)

I was just talking with a friend about how bad it's been lately. It's kind of comforting to hear I'm not the only one going through this, but I'm exhausted. The pandemic really made me step back and think about a lot of things, and for me life is too short to put up with this environment for much longer. I know people with less demanding jobs that were able to use the slow down to spend more time with family, and I would feel awful if something happened to a loved one while I was working 24/7. On top of that, my mental health has been nuked (and physical too since I can never leave my apartment).

If this goes on long-term, bonuses next year will probably be awful, so we'll sacrifice our health and time spent with people close to us for what?

Totally agree with every sentiment on this thread. Realistically this will further drive people away from IB into tech/consulting (more so tech but still). VP's working me continuously every Saturday and expect you to be at your desk every second.

Frankly sometimes I just think about quitting and living on savings while this blows over.

Are everyone’s hours right now really as bad as this thread implies? I’m a 2nd year analyst at a strong BB group in NY, and hours have definitely been bad (maybe ~80-90/week), but it’s not like I’m grinding away every Saturday - still usually getting Sat almost fully off.

Maybe I should be grateful?

The busiest 5-6 months I’ve had by far and pace doesn’t seem to be letting up for the rest of the year. Not being able to blow off steam on weekends or step away for 20-30mins makes it all the more difficult.

On one hand I feel very fortunate to be employed and making good money, on the other I feel like a fucking idiot for still putting up with this everyday.

Got laid off from an IB firm due to the pandemic, lucky enough to transition to S&T.

Feels like getting kicked out of IB is a blessing in disguise, now I have full weekend off and make a smashing on my desk since the markets have been moving in the last couple of months.

Not in banking anymore, but these past few months for me in PE have been worse than any period I had in over 3 years in IB. Same story as many of the above - frequent strings of 3-4am nights in a row, weekends blown the fuck up, often for useless / meaningless shit. Seniors don't really care or those that do can't do anything about it because of an authoritarian group head. Whole attitude of "well what else are you doing anyways."

Im so tired. Some people were fired and those who are still there are pushing in every direction there is and I feel that analysts are now asked to do more than what they usually do, just because everyone is so busy. But also, I want to point out that my staffer, associates and vps are understanding and we are all trying to help each other. I feel that your culture might not be the best if you are doing this bad while you are an associate. I would understand if its the night before a client meeting but not consistently. But honestly someone has to speak up. I understand if there is one crazy MD but not all of them. Culture starts at the top.

Honestly wish I got laid off at this point. Would gladly take a few months severance and find another job.

If you’re ever really serious about giving a 2 weeks notice, just start coasting. Increasingly just relax and do less. Might as well start relaxing a bit and still get paid. What do you have to lose? If you quit randomly in the middle of a cycle my guess is you don’t want to continue in that career anyway so who cares about an MD sabotaging you at another bank.

But seriously I hear you. It’s fine to rant. It sucks. When you have a chance to push back every now and then just say your staffed up and learn to say no. It’s ok every now and then. People will get annoyed because they’re focused on finding someone to pawn work off to, it’s not necessarily personal.

So, sounds like you guys are spending most of your time on pitches / presentation materials? Not deals or distressed situations? They literally have you staying up until 4am every night turning decks?

How are Rx groups dealing with this? Are they also overworked? Or do they have more reasonable hours because they aren't pitching/seniors aren't as desperate as M&A?