What’s the deal with these European interns?
No hate at all, just genuinely curious here. Some of the best - as well as nicest - colleagues I have met fall into this category and I have no resentment for the system whatsoever.
I’m sure anyone in London notices this too, that there is a never-ending supply of European interns who are way over-qualified to be an intern. These guys seem to be 22-26 years old, already having completed several internships, often internships in both IB and PE, at reputable firms and having received full-time offers. Yet they pursue further internships. What’s going on here? What is the goal? Keep doing master’s degree after master’s degree until you eventually intern at Blackstone?
These hyper-qualified interns flood the market and make it very difficult for British - especially non target - applicants to break in. I don’t mean this in a resentful way whatsoever, just genuinely curious to hear some perspectives on this.
Another week another britbong complaining about actual competent candidates
Why don't you guys write articles about Micheal Dappah (Nottingham A&F, Morleys, Peckham Red) getting summers at PJT and JPM through DEI
I mean, if there is a structural issue with the competitiveness of UK candidates because of the timing of the UK education system, for jobs in the UK, it's okay to discuss that. Perhaps the solution is to offer more 4 year courses with govt/uni sponsored internships for those serious about that path, but it's not an unreasonable complaint, given the 24 year old French student may be more experienced, but it's often difficult to evaluate and fight for that 2nd year UK student vs them, even if the UK student has more potential to actually succeed in the industry.
As for the other comments...I cba lol
UK serves as an European financial hub, probably global for markets. From where the fuck you pulled the UK based = UK candidates lmao
Who is that
This has been an elephant in the room for ages now. Competition mismatch between say a 2nd-year Uni student aged 19/20 going for the same SA position as a Euromaster aged 23 with 2-3 very good internships. Don't blame them at all given the odds are stacked in their favour. From my experience, a lot of them will do a few internships in Milan / Frankfurt / Paris before transitioning into London longer term.
I haven't been through applications in a few years so am unsure which banks structure it well but logically you'd frame it like:
SAs- 2nd and 3rd yrs (4 year course) only - realistically Master's students are eligible given they are 2 year courses including a 6/12 month gap designed for internships
OC's - final year / graduated within 1 year / Master's students
FT is open to final year / grads and Masters, but looks like it's again skewed towards taking those more qualified
You miss an important point: in UK recruitment process, EU students are not assessed vs UK students. They're assessed together and UK students are assessed together. And recruiting for IB/PE in continental Europe is way more difficult than recruiting for IB/PE in the UK, as the pool of applicants is bigger, older, more prepared, and the students overall are of a much better quality.
Sounds about right as well!
Euro Master here, cannot comment on the overall quality of students, also the way you said it sounds exceptionally retarded.
However, can confirm that Euro/UK students are assessed separately in the Internship. Fwiw, UK students all pussy out of EMEA Teams and gravitate towards UK coverages.
Have also noticed this and always found it very bizarre.
I think it stems from a couple things:
1. General european belief that you start your working life later. Less pressure to start work at age 21.
2. The (totally stupid) mindset that you have to study finance to work in finance. I think this makes people think that you need to be supremely qualified to get an IB job or be a good banker.
3. Given the increasingly stagnant european (and british) economies, I often get the impression that business school graduates think the only way to make money ever is to do banking or PE. This means that the prestige associated with a nice finance job is more important and hence why they might aim higher up the ladder prestige wise.
Having said this, I think most british employers are able to understand the nuances here and get a good mix of UK and USA grads.
sorry UK and european grads**
Completely agree re good balance. Thanks for your response, it’s interesting stuff
Spot on and the only thing to add to your point is 2 - The West in general is now reaching peak 'credentialism' where people automatically think by being more qualified and doing a Master's / MBA will guarantee you both a higher salary and breaking into high finance. Slightly off-piste, but the UK especially has way way too many universities, diminishing returns to education and narrowing the wage premium (unless you study STEM or attend a Russell Group). A lot of my Uni mates did 'panic masters' though a handful did go to Europe to do Master's at top schools and are getting much better placements than they would've from just solely attending a UK target. They are playing the game of being a Master's student aged 23 and landing summers / off-cycles and it's worked out well
If you want to break into IB in London as a German/French/Italian Guy, the only chance you have to land interviews is to accumulate internships in continental Europe like crazy. There is no way a 19 year old second year student without any experience would get any interview invites at all (unlike UK students)
Really interesting coming from a US perspective. Here, Masters degrees have a reputation of being money-grabs for universities and pretty useless for those going into finance. People are more aware of the typical 4-5 year undergraduate structure and, and MBAs after 4-5 YoE. I'd be shocked to get an internship application from a 25 year old guy who hasn't served in the military.
I guess i'm just surprised people at UK firms are giving preference to those profiles that have done 7 summer internships
There is a reason why every week you can find associates or similar crying on here about the quality of juniors / new hires.
Can comment here as I was interviewing for a BB and EB in this cycle with 2 offers - UK final year
(I really should change my title but it's too much effort and I kind of like looking at this title considering how far I've come)
A lot of European masters' student in both ACs did not pass the modelling tests (DCF / LBO) in either AC despite them having several top names on their CV (e.g. KKR, BX, MS, Roths, Nomura or other non-MF PE funds etc.) Why this is the case remains a mystery to me but I would wager that simply doing comps and putting together pitch decks does not teach the knowledge required to understand how IS - CFS - BS link together appropriately to then complete a pro-forma DCF valuation model and provide a share price with sensitivity tables.
UK candidates also struggled in the same proportion but most of them only were working off knowledge they developed in their spring weeks and the like so it was fairer on them as long as they made up for it in the F2F interview later
I can't stress this enough but actually going through the WSP / BIWS courses at least twice and actually being able to independently complete a model is such a leg up when it comes to navigating a modelling test or even to be able to analyse an M&A transaction as you can sensitise the pro-forma financials to discuss hypotheticals of your own.
A lot of people I speak to in ACs just know the barebones 400Q guide which won't be so useful when you're asked to discuss deals or to talk about sector-specific technicals outside the scope of those guides.
Example: I know a European AC candidate (German / French business school) who I was sat with at an EB who didn't know that stock based comp is an expense on the IS and is then added back on the CFS, so their cash flow statement was always down and their cash was lower than it should be. I know someone with several PE internships who didn't know how the CF due to AR is calculated by using the prior 2 BS figures (more AR = less cash because that revenue doesn't exist). These are real cases and quite obviously, they didn't get the offers. It would show as well in the F2F interview when you're asked to discuss potential drivers of revenue when looking at eg a C&R business model and need to analyse the working capital cycle and how to minimise it (less AR, more AP).
From where? To even get into Frankfurt Offcycles most shops do a modelling test, with a case study, usually a three statement model, DCF or Paper LBO. That ranges from Raymond James to Houlihan & Rothschild.
It was London office for summer 26
On their CV they already did OCs all over Europe in IB and PE so you can imagine my shock when I wrapped up the model and they hadn't even finished linking the statements
I helped them as they were v friendly but was confused as to how they got themselves in that position without knowledge a little technicals
Frankly, I can't imagine that there are any European intern candidates in London recruiting who are weaker in technical areas than their British counterparts. My experience has only been the opposite, as the European candidates all came from target universities and, based on their previous four or five internships, were more or less at the experience level of second-year analysts. British applicants simply need to understand that things aren't like they were ten years ago, when you could get a summer analyst position based on personal fit alone with any semi-target degree and then receive a guaranteed full-time offer.
u need to emphasize they were DEI / women, because almost all European internships don't give a crap about behavioral questions and you're mostly drilled on technicals + models (especially at PE firms, as KKR), so I'll call this bullshit
even more suspicious as you're implying it was a German, which based on my experience they are some of the most technically obsessed candidates I've seen
For f*cking Carlsquare I had to do a three statement model, Teaser and DCF through the different stages back then... absolutley insane...
Now I am better informed thanks to you as yes, they were women.
We had Germans as well on the AC but I don't think(?) they got the offers either as they seemed a bit too stiff in the case study presentations. Technically insane but presentation-wise I found it didn't come so naturally to them vs. the Iberian candidates.
Least obvious brown hardo from Kings
Hard to belive that bb or ebs do model tests for interns
It gets worse. I got to the internship and realised my team had never taken on a British summer intern for full-time. Stellar feedback, but they did not want to extend the offer due to 'lack of experience'
Sounds like PWP - German bank
I can give some Insights from the european (german) perspective.
IB is really hyped and economy is shit.
Also there is no real target system at place so a lot of people get a shot at IB.
Some students do m&a/audit internships before their bachelors and rack up another 4-5 m&a internships while studying.
So they apply in London to maximize chances.
Also cant relate to the comment above stating europeans are not technical enough usually interviews in Frankfurt are known to be extremly technical and modeling intensive.
Learning by doing is not really a thing in germany you are expected do just do it.
I can second this, albeit with a limited sample size. I ran into German interns in the infrastructure space, and they had robust technical ability.
Separately, I've noticed that Europeans generally have greater gravitas and polish, along with strong technical ability, and thus give the appearance of greater intelligence. However, for whatever reason, they fail to be intellectually fluid and adopt steep learning curves at a slower pace relative to British candidates in general.
I have also noticed this is the case for British candidates who have been groomed for investment banking by attending traditional independent or international schools and thus have had lots of external aid in navigating academics, university, and high finance recruitment. They routinely fool HR and arrive on the desk lacking the intellectual horsepower or curiosity to articulate a novel thought or to engage in conversation at the desk or lunch. Their knowledge base extends only to a broad set of FT / WSJ articles.
This also extends to interns from GAIN, SEO, and 10,000 Black Interns, again these programs have a tendency to spotlight candidates who interview well because of a Winchester/Eton/Haberdasher/private-school twang but are second-rate in terms of cognitive ability. This is probably a consequence of selection bias: anyone from such background who is truly capable should sail through the normal channels, so naturally less able candidates filter through the above organisations.
I think its due to a genuine lack of intellectual curiosity. Half of these independent school types do jobs like these because this is what they are expected to do. Lack a certain sense of grit. No doubt they are very intelligent and polished. But there is just something missing.
Noticed that a lot of them don't bother asking simple questions like "why?" for tasks they are assigned during their internships - very process and execution focused. Do not get the bigger picture.
Very much rule followers. I need to do X so I can get into Y so I can get a job at Z. Once I got job Z, I made it. My life has built up to this - they no longer feel the need to constantly improve everyday or be curious.
This is how it is in Canada and other formerly-great countries that are now pathetic shells of what they once were. Overqualified labour pool chasing fewer and fewer opportunities. Notice that the U.S. does not have this issueS
Hey, I’m one of those “multi-internship Europeans.”
To be more specific:
• Business Tax and Audit at a Big 4
• Valuation/Modelling at Parthenon
• Strategy Consulting at two leading consultancies
• Two start-up internships
All that during my bachelor’s.
I handled all types of tasks. From basic research and support work to analyzing data myself, creating client documents, reviewing other interns work, and even building and leading small teams within the company (startup).
Why did I do those internships?
1. They were necessary to get MBB interviews.
2. They were helpful for getting an overview of every industry I could imagine working in.
Next internship will be in London, by the way.
Good for you. Hard work pays off.
x
London is the finance hub for Europe, not just the UK. The deal flow is European, so the applicant pool naturally ends up being European as well. Other cities aren't really relevant + for continental European students, banks expect several internships.
We would gladly prefer to finish a three-year bachelor at 21 and move straight into full-time work, but it just doesn't work that way
Can only speak about Germany.
In Germany, IB recruiting is extremely pre-experience focused — getting into a BB usually requires 2–4 finance internships. This mindset is drilled in from the first semester at most business universities. So when Germans later recruit for London, they’re benchmarked against other Germans who already have multiple internships. That’s why internships play an unusually big role for German candidates, even outside Germany.
More. I need 4 to get into lowe MM IB from one of the best schools we have here. Even that MM internship was a direct recomendation from my B4 M&A Partner. 2-4 was never a thing after the 2021 Covid boost that gave every idiot a chance. At least for someone without connections...
Hey, can I please PM you?I am seriously considering moving to germany next year-specifically uni mannheim for MMM, I have good grades but the problem is lack of good internships, its near impossible to even land big 4 TAS in my 3rd world shithole country, I somehow networked my way and got an interview only to be rejected. Lo and behold they hired a woman with shitty grades with 0 knowledge. I'm really scared that I will be at a huge disadvantage when looking for jobs in germany.
I'm really scared that I will be at a huge disadvantage when looking for jobs in germany.At the moment I only have 2 internhips one in consulting and one in audit both at small boutiques 20 employees.
Continential Europe view: At the end of the day, finance is not rocket science, people need to be somewhat smart combined with a strong work ethic and some industry-specific knowledge (which you don't learn in university). Also considering we typically have smaller teams and less capacity to a) educate and b) compensate for "lowperformers", it is obviously significantly more attractive to hire someone with 2-3 relevant internship who hits the ground running. Yes, we might miss a tiny bit of potential but are willing to trade that vs. ramp-up speed and higher certainty that people know what they are getting into and don't quit 1y in due to working hours/conditions.
Current Oxbridge student here so can maybe offer an interesting perspective. Not really been interested in IB, PE etc. so don’t have a leg in the race but ofc many of my mates have and they always moan about how hard it is to compete as a 20 yr old against 26yr EU masters students with 5x internships
Banks HQ their emea ops in london but that means lon teams are serving all of emea. this doesn’t mean brits have first dibs on those roles just cuz it’s in london. it’s actually very beneficial for the uk overall to have it like this as these people all come to london earn high comp and pay a shit ton of tax (and god knows the uk needs it rn)
if this wasn’t the case banks would split ops by having multiple teams in paris milan etc. and UK would lose a shit ton of money for no gain
Interesting perspective and some good points very well made, thanks.
I’m one of these guys and I personally just want to delay my entry into the job market as much as possible, to travel and enjoy my last years of liberty.
Can comment as a WHU grad (German target) who started working in LDN after bachelors. It's just a German and I guess European believe to get a masters before start to working, in fact when I interviewed with UBS in ZH after I wanted to move out of ldn they explicitly asked me about my lack of masters.
if you add in the fact that most European targets have summer breaks with mandatory internships and most people at targets do a gap year between bachelor and master it makes sense. It goes do a big4/no-name m&a internship after 1st year, at least a MM internship after 2nd year, then I guess some people break into BB in the gap year etc.
It it strange that german's start working that old? sure. In fact I'm currently a s&t assoc (made the shift from a shitty buyside gig to a T2 Bank, hence I guess the equivalent of a MBA assoc), in Germany hoping to make it to VP in next 2 years and the analyst who started this year is my age.
If you add in the fact that most European targets have summer breaks with mandatory internships and most people at targets do a gap year between bachelor and master it makes sense. It goes do a big4/no-name m&a internship after 1st year, at least a MM internship after 2nd year, then I guess some people break into BB in the gap year etc.
Sorry, but we both know that without any network, that is not possible anymore. Anyone going to MM in the current market, without 3 internships under the belt, has some connection there.
mate I'm an (in my opinion old, getting dangerously close to end of my 20's) assoc... I've graduated a few years ago I don't have an opinion on that anymore...
Some people just do endless m&a internships without any prgression.
Market sucks
Honestly, as a European candidate who had to take on 3 internships in banking with 1 at a top elites boutique before landing a summer in London, I feel fairly confident in saying that most of us follow this path because securing a summer internship in London during our bachelor’s degree is almost impossible-especially if you are male. As a result, the only viable option is often to take internships in continental Europe, which are usually more intense than a typical summer role in London. Through this experience, combined with a strong target master’s program, we then try to transition into the London banking market.
Saying that this is a disadvantage for UK students feels a bit unfair, particularly because UK students can much more easily secure summer internships during their three years of undergraduate study, giving them more opportunities overall.
Additionally, many London internships place a strong emphasis on behavioral skills rather than purely technical ones, whereas in continental Europe the focus is almost exclusively on technical testing. This pushes European students to engage in extensive networking just to secure a single application opportunity.
UK needs to ban non UK nationals from recruiting in IB.
This country is difficult enough, ban all the foreigners.
Unless you were born in the UK and have a British passport, stay in your country.
We get it, London is prestigious, but fix your own country please.
Farage over here
So... What kinda business do these people want to do there? You wont get your hands on anything else but UK deals anymore. So they will drastically cut most of you as there is no work and the people with regional networks cover from the regional office.
Lmao maybe work harder and you'll be competitive enough. Nice cope though
As someone involved in Intern, Analyst and Associate hiring in multiple firms - the pool of qualified UK candidates is very, very thin. We have been focused on trying to hire a British candidate, and it’s been very difficult. The main reasons are as follows:
Utter nonsense.
I wouldn't totally discount his views. Point 1 is something I can agree with to some extent: I've nearly pulled my own hairs out trying to encourage my friends to revise technicals and really prepare for interviews and they still fall short of what I expect from them (and I am a UK student myself). It's more than just memorising 400Q guides but also to really understand the theory of what's being done and how to navigate situations that you don't come across so commonly.
I would however disagree with 2 and can't comment on 3 myself.
It’s gotten so bad that even UK teams are getting large chunks of Europeans cause they can’t find local talent to fill the pool. British interns we’ve gotten were utterly disappointing
European masters students may work hard, but the average DEI candidate in the UK works 10x harder every single day in dealing with all the racial adversity here. Going through an undergrad as a DEI candidate in the UK = doing MF PE internships as a non-DEI candidate on the continent. Thank god for SEO London!
DEI is not a thing in Europe.
We don't have Hispanics or that many Black candidates. That's your problem.
We have a lot of Asian candidates (Asian includes Arabs, Iranians, Armenians, Indians, Pakistanis Chinese, Japanese, etc.) and they don't get any special preference as far as I'm aware. Why would they?
What on earth are you talking about? I'm saying, stay in your country. Let those with a UK passport get first preference.
It's incredibly problematic that Europe does not have many Hispanic or Black candidates. Have you considered opening your borders?
Brexit means all the European business has now shifted to Continental Europe so it makes sense to have talent speaking at least three languages. Shouldn't have trusted the British
publicretards (I am a UK talent)i thought brexit would end easy access of Europeans to UK job market? can someone explain why that didnt happen
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