Anton Kreil - Institute of Trading and Portfolio Management MENTORING PROGRAM. Overpriced and Undervalue.

A) Totally disappointed with the overpriced and undervalue 3 month Mentoring Program (USD7001)

I am totally disappointed with Anton Kreil’s Institute of Trading and portfolio management’s 3 month Mentoring Program. This is because the mentoring program is overpriced and undervalue. I have regretted signing it up and asked for a refund on the 7 unused sessions. Anton Kreil refuses to give me a full refund on the 7 unused mentoring sessions. He only partially refunded me USD2500 only after numerous follow up e-mails and Skype's converstions; and he mentioned that it is non-negotiable. The outstanding money Anton Kreil owes to me is USD1583.

B) Go or no go to put on a trade simply based on simple technical indicators.

The total cost of the 3 month mentoring program is USD 7001 which consist of only 12 mentoring sessions. The session is usually around 30min or less if I have no question. Go or no go to put on a trade simply based on simple technical indicators. No addition insight/value given on the trades. I have lost an additional of about USD3000 by following the mentor recommendation on the trades.

C) Don’t be a victim like me.

How would you feel if you paid fully for the mentoring program that is not being delivered and it is not fully refundable? I feel that this is not fair to me. I feel ripped off. I feel scammed. I am only asking for refund on the unused sessions even though the used sessions are overpriced and undervalue.

The mentoring program is overpriced and undervalue. I just want to share my extremely bad experience to anyone who is thinking of signing up the mentoring program to think twice. And don’t be a victim like me. They will take your money and couldn't care less about what happens to you. Thanks.

 

Sounds like a tough experience. I've seen that program in the past through their presentations. Did you signed up to their professional trading master class video series prior to signing up for the one on one mentoring program? Perhaps you can elaborate a bit more about what you actually learned and did not learned

 

It's pretty obvious to me that he's legit. The mentoring looks like more of a holiday than a training seminar but $7,000 is about what you'd pay for such a vacation anyway. With flights from Canada anyway. So it's a few bucks more than what a vacation would cost. A $2,500 refund seems fair to me. You can't expect him to make everyone happy. Especially when you consider that not everyone is cut out for day trading and that some people expect more than others do for their money.

 

sounds like other offers on line......so was there anything useful you took away with any of the material presented?

 

I actually took the course myself and I'm very pleased with what I have learned. But to be honest, I didn't know that much before I took the course. Anton teaches a lot about macroeconomic indicators, using this to predict economic growth and risk management, wich is obviously very important for managing a portfolio. If you are just beginning to trade then this course would be a good way to start building up knowledge.

Also I think the mentoring program would only be a good purchase for people with some money to spare and who have a lot of questions about the course.

I was hoping that one of the guys who actually took the course could send me in the right direction on something. Anton talks a lot about mapping out the value chains of the sectors in the video "Drilling from the top down". Does anyone know how to actually do this? I would appreciate it if someone could give me some advice on how to do this. I have asked the Institute this, but they told me that this question was more suited towards the mentoring program.

 
Best Response

I signed up for his course many years ago when I was already a professional trader. Within 4 days of signing up, I found enormous amount of erroneous contents on his class. Besides, the class was extremely low level. I ended up getting a full refund.

In my personal opinion, he is just a dinosaur who used to be okay in flow trading when technology wasnt this prevalent in the industry. Now he knows that he's outdated, so he's just trying to rip off some naive retail customers.

His course may seem appealing to those inexperienced or those who never had a basic quantitative education because of the way it is presented. He is probably a way better salesman than a trader. But don't waste your time and money, just walk away. If you're dumb enough to think that his course is good, then it only proves that you're just another donkey in the stock market: in this case, stop all trading and just save your money in a bank.

 

Agreed. Course is pretty basic but Kreil is a master sales guy. People just fall in love with Kreil and start using similar language to him, thinking how much smarter they are than everyone else lol.

Anyway, out of curiosity, what were the errors you saw?

 

Interesting Feedback from someone in the Industry thanks for doing that. Things are changing very fast with all the Algo trading and strategies only working for a short time only. So what course would you recommend now ?? What recommendations do you have for Daytrading stock in US market?

 

I have trouble believing you, not because the overpriced material of these sessions/courses is shit, I believe you on that, but why would an EVP prop trader seek advice from a clique of ex traders providing holiday sessions to tourists with big wallets?

 

Three things you need to understand about this course and the founder Anton Kriel. I have personally been through the course and spoken with both Anton and another mentor in the program and now building a track record in my account so I can go into an HF.

1). Expectation: I am not sure what type of expectation you had going into the course, but it sounds like it didn't line up with what the course offered. In my opinion, that isn't any reason to throw "monkey shit" at Anton for his course. Maybe you were expecting to be a professional trader in 3 months? Make 20% return on your money in that same time? I don't know but what I do know is more people lose money in the markets than they make.Knowing how not to lose money is worth the $7k. BTW, for someone to be even considered for the mentor program, you have to have passed the actual educational trading videos. So if you didn't get any value out of the videos why in the world would you sign up for a mentor program teaching the same thing? Also, the videos are extremely dense with Excel spreadsheets for you to conduct your analysis while watching the videos. The average person who isn't sold on investing for the long term wouldn't do this.

2). "Worthwhile info": The info is basic but supposed to be on par of what you would learn in an SA program in trading. @caeruleus mentioned that he was a pro trader before purchasing the program and didn't think the info held any value. I don't see any validity in your comment since as pro trader learning basic or entry level info would theoretically be a step back in education advancement. As a pro trader, you probably have made money for some time and went through some program to teach you how to trade.Your comment would be like Lebron James going back to his high school coach looking to "re-learn" the fundamentals of basketball. Doesn't add up. Rather the info is worthwhile or not is probably relative but I can tell you that the program is extremely useful. I've seen posts where you should just trade your money than waste it on a course. Pretty stupid if you ask me. If you trade and lose all your money, how do you know what you did wrong outside of trading the wrong stock at the wrong time? How will you explain that to an interviewer? This course, in my opinion, is exactly like BIWS and WSO modeling guides. You're not going to be a world class investment banker, but you'll at least have a leg up going into interviews and gain some technical skills.

3). **The mentors making money off you and their validity **: When I met Anton and Raj Malhotra(Former MD of options trading at Nomura) they both told me the same thing. They're not doing this to be Mother Teresa. They do have an objective to the mentorship program, and that is they train you on what they know and how to trade. Once you've passed the video series and start trading inside of the program, they'll get to pick and choose which trades their traders put on and put money behind it themselves. Every trader in the program is mentored and monitored from the back end by Anton. Meaning if you put on a stupid trade, use excessive leverage, or put on good trades he'll know. The program also allows students who have a track record over the course of 12-24 months to potentially be placed in a hedge fund. The hedge fund pays Anton a consultant fee, a percentage of the trader's salary upfront because he trained them. A win-win, since a person doesn't need to be trained by the HF and trader gets placed into a fund. A great option instead of going through the traditional IB route and trying to enter out of UG if that is your objective. Continuing on their validity, most of these mentors have retired after a decade trading in a hedge fund or IB and most run their own books or are still trading for investors. Hichem Djouhri, for example, is a leading fund manager in Dubai. I doubt he would risk running with scam artists losing out on millions on his carry/salary to pick up a few $7000 checks here and there. Along with Raj or Anton.

In short, if you're looking at this course you need to realize that trading is a long term game. You're not looking to make six figures a year with the course but build wealth through compounded returns or leverage your knowledge to a full-time offer. Despite everyone's negative thoughts on the program, it is equivalent to most IB modeling programs, where the investment bankers are no longer actively working on deals but spending their time giving back to eager students looking to enter the industry.

 

The reason I took his course even though I was already a professional trader was because 1) My learning curve was flattening out after two years at the same firm, so I was looking around to see what other professional traders were doing, 2) Anton advertised that his course would be valuable for professional, experienced traders as well, 3) I had a lot of free time since I got out of the exchange at 4pm.

Yeah sure if I knew that his course was that basic, it would've been stupid of me to go back to those fundamental things and try to re-learn, just as you say. But the thing is, I didn't know until I paid the money and opened up the course because of Anton's false advertisement. That's why I got the full refund after viewing a few contents. To make things worse, there were a lot of mathematically erroneous contents in that course. I pointed them out one by one on an email I sent them - I don't know if they got fixed yet.

 

They couldn't even correctly calculate a simple ATR indicator in their useless excel sheets. Seeing correlations on the graphs where there are none. Absolute shite. If you want to learn about macro economic indicators, a 20 dollar book on the subject will give you more detailed information and be more useful in general.

 

I guess Raj is not doing a very good job as a stand up comedian if he’s forced to do this shit. Than again, I’d imagine he makes it fun for everyone.

PS. why would anyone want to take lessons from a failed sell-side flow trader is beyond me

PPS. I like Raj, he’s a great guy, but there is a reason why he’s “retired”

I have a friend who lives in the country, and it's supposed to be an hour from 42nd Street. A lie! The only thing that's an hour from 42nd Street is 43rd Street!
 

The weird thing about these courses is that he goes on putting down other educators and trainers as well as their marketing tactics of promising more life freedom, and if you look at thier materials it's pretty much the same exact thing, however done in a more professional manner and linked to more of people with some connection to larger businesses versus your common internet trader. But point being same stuff. I think the other main factor is that his big goal is extreme safety in trading a la the big boys and capital preservation above all - which is fine if you want to only take in about 4 or 5% on your trades. If that is the case might as well throw your money in some vangaurd funds and let it sit there over time - it will earn you more. Then there is the fact that he is ignoring some very big trader names that do not take this institutional approach and it is possible to not follow his model and still be profitable. So bottom line is if you want to trade like safe institutional trader that works for big firms, and don't know much about that industry, his course might be useful for you. Otherwise it's just yet another trading course amongst many - with just as much mirage as anything else - you still ahve to be smart and do the work for anything in life to work.

 

Lol. An ex-Goldman Trader now marketing trading "secrets." All his videos on YouTube are just him travelling to different countries around the world with his clients. Constantly Tweets about how much money his clients are making, no brokerage statements. Pretty much a cooler Tim Sykes.

What a scum.

Array
 
DTM to the moon

Does anyone know where I can get his ITPM video series. I still find it over priced after it being reduced

He's making a new one. Wait till October. 

 

Why do people fall for this?

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.
 

Have been with ITPM and all I can say is the content is great.

HOWEVER, Anton makes a few exaggerations ;

1) He claims that Alin will intervene when things go wrong.

This will NOT HAPPEN. IF you lose money, no one will phone you or email you or try and help you. So FORGET IT. Many people have applied his long/short model and Anton or his team never ever get involved. 

So why say this in his webinars when he knows they don't intervene with anyone's account.  Disingenuous. 

2) Is mentoring worth it ?

Price are Remote mentoring is $16K. Thailand is $25-$35K. It is overpriced. After those 12 weeks, you’re by yourself. Just remember that.

Overall, it is good but don’t feel you’re protected because you’re not. The courses in isolation is NOT enough to trade. You need much more - attend webinars/seminars & Mentoring! 

Just remember, he was a “sales” trader.

They don’t really “care” about you once you’ve done the course. Its a money extraction model.

 

I found that TAGZ is a scam. Also invested on their platform ,after they kept asking me for kyc I got suspicious and did not invest more. They did not give me my investment (50,000 €) nor profits back. Luckily  chargebacksecured  com  helped me get my money back the right way.

 

Hello, feel free to join our discord channel to emulate each other to follow the education properly, keep up with the idea generation process and risk management. This community will help you to have the discipline and motivation to put the necessary time effort to run correctly your portfolio on the long run!
https://discord.gg/6yRStkra7G

 

When assessing the validity of a course tutor or influencer you need to go by cold, hard facts. Evidence of how successful he has been, how successful his students have been.  Without that hard evidence, you have nothing to go on, except self promoting advertorials and guesswork. Where money is concerned, it is so easy to get sucked into emotionalism, and believe all the self-promoting hype and only honing in on the positive reviews, whilst ignoring the bad ones.

I have brushed shoulders with Anton during an online Annual Conference held a couple of years ago. The Conference cost over £100 and it was basically full of trading mentors dangling information like tinsel from a Christmas tree but offering no real substance or answers and they were contradictory at times. There was also the obvious bait and switch tactic: just a big build up to the real purpose of the Conference - to get  you to buy the ITPD course and mentoring programme. During Q&As, I asked him a question in chatbox about what he felt about investing in crypto - this was at a time the crypto coins were in a bull market with big gains and turbulent corrections - and he simply responded 'ffs'. For that alone, along with the other reasons I outlined above, I asked for my money back and he promptly reibursed me about five minutes after sending the email.

Some of what he says about life and alternative thinking and rigorous self discipline to be financially independent is inspirational. I think he means well and tries to be helpful in these videos, but his 'trading culture' personality profile rather lets him down - at least for me - although I am sure it doesn't bother everyone. He is, I am sure a generous and kind soul, but he comes across as arrogant too, which is not a pleasant quality. He strikes me as narcissistic.

 

I've tried to his courses for a discount and didn't learn anything that I didn't already know. Dude is a rambler and loves to gloat and is really a high priced salesmen. He promotes his courses and mentorship programs by basically telling you that there's no way you'll make it at trading unless you buy his courses or enroll in his mentorship program. My advice is to stay away and don't waste your money. In todays markets his courses are outdated.

 

What confuses me about Anton is how ill-defined his target demographic is. He's an ex-Goldman trader, talks and presents at target unis, discusses topics that normies never know about (prop trading, high level trends in the professional trading industry, hedge funds, the divisions of investment banks, how to recruit for S&T and prop trading). Sure, you'd expect his target audience to be reasonably smart people, motivated university students recruiting for trading or high finance, even pro traders in some cases. People inside that world and speak that language.

However his courses turn out to be basic cursory info, he posts client results showing profits which suggests that his clients are just typical mom-and-pop retail traders who treat markets at that level, he does all these flashy stuff that's no different from the Dan Loks of the world. From that, you'd think his clients are just sheep.

Don't know what he's tryna achieve with these contrasting goals, but from the way it's going, seems like he's just another snakes oil salesman. 

 

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