Exposing banks and firms! Feel free to drop names shamelessly
Helloooooo MONKEYS.
As we know, in the midst of the GS analyst survey, toxic WFH abuse and culture, SA 2022 szn and unbelievable feats of ghosting, incompetent HR, cringe congratulatory LinkedIn "summer insight" posts, and diversity kids not knowing what a balance sheet is, all of these combine together to form some sinister squall that is investment banking and high finance.
Thought I'd take a moment to let loose and invite everyone to share (IDEALLY BY NAME OF FIRM AND GROUP), some of the worst people and things they've ever seen in their time interfacing with these banks and buyside firms. This forum is all we got, so we need to help and make sure people know what to look out for and what's really going on. Please feel more than welcome to call out toxic individuals by name. If doing so, also feel free to post anonymously to protect your identities.
I'm talking to you, first-year analysts who are getting cooked by your seniors during WFH every day. I'm talking to YOU, college students who prepare so hard, only to get ghosted by HR and left to the wayside, usually where an SEO/MLT kid takes your spot. I'm talking to you, VP who realized a bit too late that he can't make a move to another industry because he's stuck in IB. I'm even talking to YOU, middle class white boy who had no idea that this mess is what his parents meant by "be successful." We all need to expose this industry for what it is. No wonder there's so much brain drain.
Again, please feel free to post anonymously to keep yourselves safe, but let tf loose. This will be helpful for all of us, as it could either:
- Somehow go viral and incentivize people to change (worth a shot, hey)
- Warn people about who and where to look out for.
Nice, here's an interesting one I found from this other forum. Would love to hear more stories, ideally by name like this one.
Jeez, GS actually fucking sucks lmao. Why do kids still go there?
GS is imo not better than pure M&A / EB boutiques and other BB. it’s like saying Harvard or bust, when there’s plenty of other MBA programs which are just as good
most of the best bankers I know went to other BB / EB. Imo the best placements I’ve seen were more at EB / BB.
Plenty of firms are paying well these days. Also some buy side is hiring out of undergrad. I don’t think GS holds the same
...
Nice! Bumping this — would love to hear more stories too, I've seen some pretty fucked up shit, like an MD in GS telling me that "my kind didn't belong here."
What the actual fuck bro — could u drop his name by chance?
Honestly, I typically don't support doxxing, but have at it in this situation. A partner at a major financial institution shouldn't be able to say shit like that and get away with it.
The prospect has no way of verifying it so in this case doxxing is problematic and helps no one
..
What exactly is your kind if you don't mind sharing?
Was he referring to your race? I may have heard something similar from someone else I know.
Yeah was talking about my race p much. Don't want to disclose for anonymity but let's say I'm of the darker "kind"
No doxxing, but could you give us the initial of his last name or some other clue? Have a feeling I know who you're talking about.
Bumping this with my own. I'm a black immigrant and low-income, non-target, and was part of Blackstone's Diverse Leaders Program this past winter. A PE analyst chick at Blackstone I was networking with told me straight to my face — "So do you really understand what private equity is, given that you don't really come from a great background? I feel like since you're low-income and stuff, you wouldn't really understand what we do here. Not telling you where to apply, but I would caution you against PE, may not be a great fit for you."
How fucked up is that? I'm sorry for you bro, this industry is truly toxic.
I come from Asian immigrant background and same socio-economic background, I have never experience stuff like that, that's crazy lol. I would have reported shit like that
You can't in this industry – they don't care what a prospect has to say unfortunately
Sorry you had to go through that man, that’s fked up
You should drop her name
Agree
This kind of disrespect fuels a fire. Makes you want to double down and get better
No stories of my own, but I'll be recruiting next year and would love to learn what I need to look out for.
Judging by the replies, probably racist assholes
And lots of bullshit diversity kids hounding every insight day they can get their hands on just so they can stumble through an interview and get an offer bc the group "needs more women."
Lmao I was in an interview with EVR M&A NYC with an MIT kid (Indian guy) once, and the fucker just burst out laughing at my face at the end of the interview. Mad disrespectful and he told me it's because he was going to ask me this:
"Would you rather have half the teeth double the size, or double the teeth half the size?"
But like why waste your time bro? I got a way better offer than EVR in the end lol
Yeet
That's mad fucked up — legit treating the guy like scum.
Treating him like scum by... offering him 6 figures
Interview with Lincoln - asked why I chose to stay close to home instead of the tier 1 city for my first job out of school. I told him it was because 3 of my family members were killed and I needed to stay close to home for a year or so. He chuckled under his breathe then offered condolences. The interview ended there... needless to say I got a rejection email a few days later lol.
Lesson learned - the rejection is mostly on me for being overly honest, but the reaction was very telling for group culture
what group
Name the group
If I were to guess it has to be Dallas, their other offices are NYC, Chi, SF, and LA. The Dallas office is pretty small.
"Your spot" is taken by diverse candidates? Lmao. What makes you feel so entitled to a competitive job lose the attitude.
I would comment the same, but I saw a URM get a BB "diversity" offer with a sub 3.0 from an HBCU. Coincidentally, dad happened to be a client of said bank.
Competitive my ass lol. "Competition is for losers" is basically the motto of high finance and business in general lmao
I know the kid you're talking about — fucking scumbag.
.
....
At this point in terms of how toxic this industry is getting, I fully support name dropping now tbh.
Not going to drop any names but I’ll just share my background. I’m a non-target from a low-income background who busted his ass to get a full-ride to a non-target and who busted his ass to get a 4.0 and top grades and top clubs and good internship experiences freshman and sophomore year to finally get an offer. I was honestly very shocked and disheartened by what I saw while recruiting.
I sent out a couple hundred emails and probably got on 60-100 networking calls. The amount of rudeness, jokes, straight up meanness, ghosting, and arrogance and elitism was shocking. Why people thought it was okay to make fun of me, directly to my face, and tell me that I didn’t have a chance of working for their bank because of the school I go to, is beyond me. I had a 1580 on the SAT, you’re not better or smarter than me because of the name of your school, you’re just being an asshole. Thank god for the few people who were nice and decent human beings who were helpful to me, and I’m very happy that I ended up at a firm with a good culture with people I liked.
All the shit I saw and the obstacles I had to go through took a big toll on me and really opened my eyes to how the world really works. This industry seems very toxic and unsustainable and D&I initiatives or a more meritocratic selection process won’t make impactful change. When I have kids, I would love for them to have the opportunity to go a target school and receive the best education, but more importantly, I hope they turn out as decent human beings who will respect people who don’t look like them, come from different financial backgrounds, and have different viewpoints as them. It doesn’t cost anything to be kind and not be an asshole.
We need more ppl like you in industry bro. Good work with your offer
This, a million times.
From my experience people in the industry who worked hard to get to the position they are in are generally nice people and vice versa
I'm sorry this was your experience and I'm glad ou broke into the role you wanted. But the sad truth is if you don't go to a target, aren't the son of an MD, and you aren't a diverse candidate your chances are minuscule
I don’t think the chances are minuscule, I think the chances you land something in IB FO if you play everything right (4.0, ECs, internships, networking) are 20-50%, but you do have to put a Herculean amount of effort in to even have a chance. Getting a EB/GS TMT level group is probably like 1-3% chance though.
You/re a fucking pussy
One thing I’ve noticed is that most teams are men 😩
Aaannnnddd we've got another raging third-wave feminist on our hands y'all.
Watch out before she all #metoo's us in the name of wOmEns WorKplACe RiGhTs.
#cancelled :)
I'm surprised this is getting more MS than SB. Must be the PC users on the forum
Interesting that black kids are the scapegoat but most diversity offers probably go to white women/gay white people, veterans & etc.
Oh no, let me be clear — I think I can safely speak for all diversity naysayers that we fully think white women and gay ppl are the real "diversity charity cases." While many black kids are indeed those shitbags from Exeter and Deerfield CT, more often than not, they're usually low-income/middle class. And in the latter case, you just can't knock that.
White women and gay people are truly the epitome of toxic. Will personally never hire one because I know they never had to be competent to get to where they are.
Ok, I was referring to "when a SEO/MLT kid takes your spot"
Harvard considers 84% of the African-Americans they accept to be "wealthy", according to their own internal documentation (Don't ask me what wealthy means, I'm just using their own words). Compounding the demographics of target schools like this with the preppy, connected kids who end up in IB, I would bet that most African Americans in IB are upper-class, just like most whites who end up in IB. A far better way to do it is by first-gen, zip code, or parental income, but banks will never do that because their only goal is to maximize the percentage of gays, blacks, and women on their investor presentations. Who cares about actually uplifting people if you're just trying to look good.
- Someone who is literally going to PJT/EVR, not jealous, just sad watching rich international "latinos" who're whiter than snow and blonde chicks from greenwich get BB IB over first gen and low income students who deserve it at my target school
Agreed. So many white women at my school who would get laughed out of the room if they were dudes. Their resumes are horrendous, and they would have absolutely have no chance as non-diversity. This isn't to say all white women are incompetent or that all girls in diversity are not deserving, but for my school, all the girls placed at good firms despite being poor candidates. They are pretty hot though, wonder if that helps them in some degree for interviews.
Dude ofc it helps us — I legit had an associate comment on how pretty I looked that day. Creepy af but...
Got the offer
Think about the business world this way might help:
A lot of high-ups are old rich dudes.
What do those people like? Young, pretty women.
What does that mean for students trying to get into IBD? That cute brunette or American sweetheart is going to get an offer pretty easily.
I had a phone interview for a PE internship (this was freshman year) with an associate. I go to a target. My interviewer was from a complete non-target and took like an 8-year unconventional route to get to that associate position. As soon as we got settled in on the call, he basically started shitting on me and my school the entire time. "Why don't you tell me about your esteemed education at XXX" "They don't teach you that at XXX?" Like the entire time, he was just making snide, backhanded comments about my school, and just acted like a huge dick to me because of the school I go to the entire time. And I legitimately did nothing to bring it upon myself. Yes, there are a lot of privileged cunts who go to HYPS. I am not one of them, and I truly consider myself to be an extremely humble person, so I'm confident that I didn't provoke him in any way, especially since he literally started doing it from the very beginning. it was kinda sad and disappointing to watch this grown-ass man, several years out of college, project his insecurities onto me. Obviously never got a call back.
Oh no, target school kid doesn’t get freshman year private equity internship because of salty nontarget. So unfair!
OP here. Stop being salty. I ended up getting an IB RX internship at a boutique on the west coast which I was happier about than this PE one.
Thank you for MS'ing me as I literally just shared an experience about how a guy was a dick in hiring. Surely shouldn't matter if it was freshman or junior year, should it? We're literally talking about bad interviewing experiences.
If it took him eight years to get into that position, of course he’s not going to let a freshman in college in. I’ve had similar experiences where the gatekeepers wouldn’t let me into the bank, not because I wasn’t qualified or didn’t have great experience, but because I didn’t go to the same elite school as them. People like to help out their own groups, we’re a tribal species.
You may be right. Plenty of firms had kindly reached out to me and told me they didn't take freshman though. This dude gave me a 1 hour interview with technicals and all. If they just didn't want a freshman, the guy could have told me straight up instead of shitting on my school. It's like reverse-gatekeeping I guess.
Following
Honestly 90% of this thread is underwhelming and even as someone personally against the whole diversity corporate BS (as it tends to be ineffective as most point out), think complaints about all diversity stuff is very useless and doesn't belong on this thread.... (don't mean if someone was racist to you etc obviously, but rather complaining about diversity programs)
Thread Could have been something but whoever keeps bringing up diversity stuff is basically ruining the potential of what this thread could be. Shame.
Why do people always just whine about the diversity programs when unprovoked...
U mad bro?
No but disappointed. Think about reading the first post seeing 50 comments below and expecting some big headlines coming out of this and there’s just 30 comments on why people hate diversity programs lmao
I just want to see people post real stuff and not get derailed yknow?
An associate at PWP SF told me that I didn’t belong because I wasn’t from the Bay Area. Was it really that, or me being black?
Why would that immediately imply that he was referring to your race?
definitely race, no black people in the bay area
I disagree. I grew up in the Bay Area and the culture there is incredibly insular and hostile to outsiders (especially if you're from flyover country), which is ironic given how many people there are recent immigrants themselves. And it's not like Hyderabad is really anymore cosmopolitan than St. Louis.
Probably neither, but I bet you want to believe its bc you're black
Was interviewing for a valuations advisory role at a BB. Interviewer asked if my parents had worked in finance and he said the reason he asked was "to see if I had grown up in the culture".
I also went to a regional podunk non-target, and the usual reactions to it were:
So did you go to DePauw or DePaul?
Samford or Haverford
Was interviewing for an energy IB role at a top group and was asked if I had any family in Oil and Gas. Didn't have family in the industry so stated that. Still got the role so I guess the culture wasn't as bad in this particular group.
Kind of a funny interview question. As if your dad is gonna come into the office and help out. My government parents don't know shit about finance.
One reason this is asked in Houston is because people will intern at a bank in Houston and then leverage it for a FT offer in nyc. If you have family in the O&G industry, you're more likely to actually be interested in the industry and would probably stay in houston at least for a couple years since it's the O&G hub of the US
Lmao this was funny, so basically got the superday at Blackstone PE, but was called by an Associate and told straight up that another kid didn't get the superday and her uncle is a partner, so she called him up. Then they had to legit rescind my superday to make room for her. White girl, grew up in Fairfield, CT, and went to Choate.
She got the offer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sorry about that buddy, that's stupid as fuck. Hope she strikes out in recruiting later on lmao
Nah bro I'm not even salty anymore...snagged a top tech BB so I'm straight.
Although if we're being real, with uncle at her beck and call, I don't think she ever will haha
Rooting for her failure
My experience with Citi IBD:
I was interviewing at Citi’s superday for an IBD FT role and it was simply the worst interview experience I ever had. The MD from (Energy/Power/O&G/Metals & Mining) literally DID NOT LOOK UP FROM HIS PHONE ONCE AT ME the moment he stepped in. So for the whole 30 mins I was looking like a fucking retard speaking one-way to him while he texts on his phone. It honestly was so demoralizing and so disrespectful, like if interviewing me was such a waste of your time why even come.
Same round, another VP from (Industrials/fig) started questioning my motive to study finance, because I came from a liberal arts / non-finance background. When I said that I switched my major to finance in college during soph year bc I actually found the space to be interesting as I took more classes, she was like “well to me it just sounds like you switched from an easy major to a hard one.” Like lmao who are you to comment on and degrade other people’s interests / pursuits in fields of study just bc u work @ finance? Idk if I was over-reacting but it definitely felt like she was very condescending and that she looked down upon my previous major.
Also HR has zero help or say in these type of things, the MDs can do whatever they want and be however disrespectful and still get away with it lol
Pretty sure I know who it is. A mentor of mine had a similar experience with Citi Energy during his superday a couple of years back.
I actually laugh my ass off @ dumbass VPs who think "finance" is a "hard" major. Clearly they've never met engineering students.
I had this at StanChart in London.
Informed the HR rep of my withdrawal as she took me down to the lobby.
Damn this sucks
I had a horrible experience interviewing with Ducera. The VP I spoke with was literally working out as we were talking, and I could hear the noise from the elliptical/treadmill in the background. The entire time we were on the phone I he wouldn’t stop huffing and the sound from him running was very noticeable. He would give me one word answers in response to anything I said, and it was straight up the worst time interviewing I have ever had. Who knows maybe it was me, but I have done a lot of interviews and this guy was by far the most, rude, condescending, arrogant piece of work I’ve ever come across. Would avoid at all costs.
Kishan Patel strikes again
First name drop?
I feel so bad for this guy. I interviewed with K and know others who interviewed with him too. K was super nice to all of us.
Incidentally, I know other people who interviewed at Ducera that had terrible experiences with some MDs/VPs that aren’t named K so there definitely are bad apples there.
Just sucks that K has become the scapegoat for everyone bad at Ducera and his name is searchable on google for being an asshole.
Yes that guy. Rude AF.
During my time in a BB last summer as an asset management intern, I was networking with people in the IB division because I was looking into potentially lateraling. I reached out to someone that was an alum from a diversity network and we scheduled for a call. Throughout the call she was clearly working on something else and was eating chips during the call. It got so bad of her not paying attention that for like half the call she through I was a high schooler and didn’t hear that I said that I was interning at her firm.
Cold-emailed a VP of ML's PWM group in my area for internship opportunities (freshman undergrad). He basically told me I was screwed in a sarcastic tone and linked me to their page for starting a student checking account. Still laugh about it
You sound bitter and the comments @ diversity/seo kids is racially charged lmaooo get a grip
Had one Evercore guy (Harvard cum laude, later went to a UMM/MF) telling me "you won't be able to break into the industry with your backgorund".
Lol.
Did u get in tho
Yes.
RBC Calgary based on the forum topic which has 100+ posts
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