Is UBS Abusing the H1-B Visa Program and committing fraud? (Poll Inside)
How can they honestly say they are not displacing US Workers when thousands apply to banking roles?
The H-1B program allows employers in the United States to temporarily employ foreign workers in occupations that require the theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge and a bachelor's degree or higher in the specific specialty, or its equivalent.
When filing an H-1B petition, employers must prove that they will pay the H-1B worker the prevailing wage for the position in their geographic area, that they are not displacing any U.S. workers by hiring the H-1B worker, and that the employment will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of similarly employed U.S. workers, all through a document called a Labor Condition Application (LCA) certified by the Department of Labor (DOL).
Source Data:
https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=ubs+securities+…
For 2024 New Applications included
1 Investment Banking Executive Director making 325,000
5 Investment Banking Directors making 275,000
5 Investment Banking Associate Directors making 175,000-200,000
4 Investment Banking Analysts making 110,000-115,000
Full List with average salary for the role
Because those H1Bs are qualified. So are th US workers. But for those specific roles UBS deemed that they found an H1B worker who brings more value than the US workers. H1Bs are not stealing anyone’s jobs. It’s actually counterintuitive in the short term for companies to go dor visa workers because of the the legal fees. So if they’re going that far as to hire a foreign worker vs a citizen, the foreigner must be offering something of greater value.
I don't believe that for an entry level banking role they couldn't find a qualified American. That just isnt true and makes a mockery of the system
Dude have you ever thought it could just be some Europeans (a tiny % of the overall analyst class) that they could be dishing out some of these junior h-1b's too. As long as it is not complete or a majority replacement, what is the issue with this - especially considering these are typically the best European students anyways (Entry-level is almost impossible from Europe and internally is impossible if not top bucket)? Imagine London started denying ALL of those who want to intermally move here to raise a family or prefer the way of living here? Thank goodness America is a melting pot because if we used this same type of logic in europe, we would effectively be declaring ethnostates.
Now above was an argument for the IB side, when discussing the quant/engineering side of things, the argument is much easier. Case study: Look at the ceo of Citadel Securities. A Chinese immigrant who likely used h-1b. Easily a top 2 prop-trading shop. Not going to elaborate further because simply can't be asked to argue over this.
No knock against H1Bs but for roles that get hundreds if not thousands of applicants there are qualified americans. H1Bs could be the best of their small interview pool, but they have to prove no american was qualified
They have to prove that no American was as qualified as they wanted. So if a foreigner comes wondering more perceived value, that becomes the e standard. Also, idk but I can’t see my keypad when typing so sorry for all the typos
Lots of abuses of the program. We’ll see what the trump admin does soon enough
Agree time to fill out the tip form online
You are not “qualified “ until you got that offer in hand. Getting past some coffee chats/phone screening or even first round interviews do not automatically make you qualified lol. Unless you are saying ubs intentionally picking internationals with offers over Americans with offers, I don’t see anything fishy here
Sounds like they are displacing American jobs.
Good points
Look I dont like Trump and didn't vote for him, but this program's original goal was not entry level finance roles. Claiming that taking bussiness classes are kind of tech and then saying you are in the Tech industry while in banking is wrong.
History Lesson sponsored by ChatGPT:
The H-1B visa program was created as part of the Immigration Act of 1990, signed into law by President George H. W. Bush. The program officially went into effect in 1991. Here's a detailed look at its origins and motivations:
Key Dates and Background
1980s Context:
Immigration Act of 1990:
Motivation for the H-1B Visa
Addressing Labor Shortages:
Economic Growth:
Support for Immigration Reform:
Initial Features of the H-1B Visa
Evolution of the H-1B Program
Summary
The H-1B visa program began in 1991 as a response to labor shortages in highly skilled professions, particularly in STEM fields. The motivation was to enable U.S. companies to attract global talent, foster economic growth, and maintain the country's competitive edge in innovation and technology.
It looks like they get this lawfirm to write up some legal justification:
OGLETREE, DEAKINS, NASH, SMOAK & STEWART, P.C.There’s no conspiracy by UBS to take away American jobs. It’s cheaper and easier to hire Americans but for one reason or another they felt that someone else would be the best candidate for the seat. The American economy isn’t going to go to shit if these 15 seats go to a foreigner.
Again H1-B is not to hire the best candidate. Its to fill a void the US job market cant provide. You are telling me no American can meet the requirements for the entry level IB role?
Its being used now to get an international who is 2% better than an American for the role for competitive reasons. Its not suppose to be used for a competitive edge but to fill a void they couldn't find an American to fill
“Competative”
Meeting the requirements doesn’t guarantee you a role. Also, why shouldn’t Canadians be allowed to work in the USA especially when both countries have deep economic ties? You are simply crying and providing no concrete reason to defend your argument
Del
Like the ceo of pal Angie said ; it’s a big world, go do something else
Look at the form: https://flag.dol.gov/sites/default/files/2019-09/ETA_Form_9035.pdf
Prior to filing this LCA or any petition or request for extension of status for nonimmigrant worker(s) supported by this LCA, the H-1B dependent or willful violator employer must take good faith steps to recruit U.S. workers for the job(s) using procedures that meet industry-wide standards and offer compensation that is at least as great as the required wage to be paid to the nonimmigrant worker(s) pursuant to 20 CFR 655.731(a). The employer must offer the job(s) to any U.S. worker who applies and is equally or better qualified for the job than the nonimmigrant worker.
Really confused on what point you are trying to drive here?? That stakeholders should follow laws to the letter… do you not jaywalk? Did you not have a single sip of alcohol before the legal age… man come on. We get what the letter of the law is here
jaywalking no longer illegal in NYC
Hard to believe no American is equally qualified for all of these entry level roles
Del
It’s based on meritocracy and value added. Not because you’re American.
1/4 of americans are either first gen or second gen, yet a Canadian who has been on the North American continent since 3-4 generations should be looked down upon when it comes to having a job in NYC? Give me a break lol
No American would want to work for UBS tech
Coincedentally, the team does have a good amount of H1B's who are stuck on the team
Upvote!
Yeah especially the director and a couple analysts
Salary and Salary + Bonus or Total Comp are two different things nativists
Do immigrants make the US better? Of Course
Should programs replace Americans who could have those jobs? Nope
Is there likely to be reforms to the program given companies have made a mockery of it? You bet
So much for America being a meritocracy. Need to artificially lower the bar to help subpar Americans lmfao.
Following
Lmao bro you should focus on securing an offer instead of commenting on this thread.
lmao ok prospect. focus on urself king no need to cope with racism. if you can't get an offer, it's a skill issue. no H1B is stealing ur job hahaha
https://www.uscis.gov/scams-fraud-and-misconduct/report-fraud/combating…
Combating Fraud and Abuse in the H-1B Visa ProgramThe H-1B visa program should help U.S. companies recruit highly-skilled noncitizens when there is a shortage of qualified workers in the country. Yet, too many American workers who are as qualified, willing, and deserving to work in these fields have been ignored or unfairly disadvantaged. Employers who abuse the H-1B visa program may negatively affect U.S. workers, decreasing wages and opportunities as they import more foreign workers.
Reporting Suspected H-1B Fraud or AbuseAnyone (including American workers and H-1B workers who suspect they or others may be the victim of H-1B fraud or abuse) can send us tips, alleged violations, and other relevant information about potential fraud or abuse using our online tip form..
Tip link
https://www.uscis.gov/report-fraud/uscis-tip-form
Filed a tip because its the American thing to do
That's why you're in finance and not law
1. Fraud requires depriving someone from his economic benefits or gaining unfairly some economic benefits. The word is abuse/lack of good faith.
2. Salary =/= Bonus. What are you trying to say?
3. The "proof" is so subjective that you can make any argument you want. Who is the US Gov't to say who is a better fit in a company? Better said, since when IB are Government-owned agencies to need to recruit strictly US citizens? Chill out, it's not the CIA (even there not everyone is fully American haha)
4. "We have also qualified people locally". Do you mean seniors who are clueless about what's going on the other sides of the Oceans because they always stayde inside the US? Do you need to get remembered that banks are INTERNATIONAL companies with stakeholders/clients who are from other cultures that may have business in the US also, so MAYBE it makes sense to have people from abroad if it suits better?
5. H1-B visa is also used for people who move internally across offices. Fuck the qualified candidate when you have someone who slaved 6 years for your company and plans to continue remaining it.
That's why you're in finance and not law
1. Fraud requires depriving someone from his economic benefits or gaining unfairly some economic benefits. The word is abuse/lack of good faith.
The American Worker who was fully qualified and passed over for an H1-B Visa person
2. Salary =/= Bonus. What are you trying to say? Duh, immigration office doesnt make companies report bonuses. Unsure why
3. The "proof" is so subjective that you can make any argument you want. Who is the US Gov't to say who is a better fit in a company? Better said, since when IB are Government-owned agencies to need to recruit strictly US citizens? Chill out, it's not the CIA (even there not everyone is fully American haha)
Thats for lawyers to figure out but would include a full review of who applied, who interviewed and whether the American worker was disadvantaged
4. "We have also qualified people locally". Do you mean seniors who are clueless about what's going on the other sides of the Oceans because they always stayde inside the US? Do you need to get remembered that banks are INTERNATIONAL companies with stakeholders/clients who are from other cultures that may have business in the US also, so MAYBE it makes sense to have people from abroad if it suits better?
Again read the point of the H1-B Visa program. If you believe that then lobby congress to create a new multicultural Visa program, not the H1-B.
5. H1-B visa is also used for people who move internally across offices. Fuck the qualified candidate when you have someone who slaved 6 years for your company and plans to continue remaining it.
Again although you see it as fair for the international worker, its unfair for the qualified American who could be working it. US laws should skew in favor of Americans over internationals.
When you go so anti-DEI, you are against non-US whites too lmao. Horseshoe theory never lies
You are fake news. H1B visa program is literally 99% indian and chinese.
Ah so only against the non-US born minority that conservatives (I am one myself) actually used as the model minority. non-US whites are okay now? Or do you just want to completely ban all Highly skilled migration, regardless of origin? Does that not completely go against the model that made us a powerhouse and continues to maintain our dominance? Or did you just skip all your history classes and not learn that this country was built by Christians, Jewish, whatever and several continents with several different ethnicities and the descendants of said people?
Also, its 85%.
Not in entry-level IB, which is what the thread is about
cmon breh
You sound insecure about asians being smarter than you.
That is the best way to eliminate DEI. US whites for the large part dislike racial DEI but are fine with gender DEI. Issue is you can’t pick and choose. Merit requires both racial and gender quotas to be eliminated. Elon / Vivek are both pro high skilled immigration so a lot trump voter base will get disappointed at some point.
Not sure about IB, but we interviewed 80+ Americans for an entry level role in our pod this year and 85%+ had some form of mental deficiency, last 15% were okay but not good enough. Ended up hiring someone from Frankfurt.
Mental deficiency is crazy LMAO
Obiously Satire
I’m being hyperbolic, but yes the quality of talent interviewing for HF out of banking gets abysmally worse each year. 0 ability for critical reasoning or doing the work to understand what’s actually moving stocks in the near term.
instead i have to spend 5+ hours a week listening to pitches that suck, and are just regurgitating what the business does with some shitty swot analysis stacked on with “the market is missing xyz…” with 0 understanding of why the market is missing it or how you know this.
And then when I start picking the pitch a part there’s 0 ability to defend it. People don’t even realise that there’s obviously a bull/bear side to each story, and can’t think probabilistically about the scenarios. This isn’t PE or IB, if I’m hiring you, I expect you to produce ideas that make me and my team money.
So yes, the European that interned at Point72 and works at Exoduspoint quite literally had a skillset 0 Americans I interviewed had, and if I’m interviewing people, I’m not making $$.
eat what you kill, blood meridian
At a distressed credit shop and can say the experience is very much the same. We are always interviewing and probably see a dozen or so candidates a quarter (of which 11/12 are American). Most crack under basic FCF yield technicals and our distressed case study might as well be heart surgery for these candidates. Very difficult to find domestic talent.
Yeah I mean I don’t know how much of this is a US producing dumbasses situation ( I mean, it still produced all of the guys killing it right now, including myself) or more of a sellside talent becoming shitty situation. Vast majority of people we interview are white/asian male too so it’s not like we’re getting the “DEI” hires. They rarely select for public markets one.
Technicals the people are fine, it’s just the actual money making part of the job, the intellect curiosity, creativity, raw insight etc is just not there anymore…
I guess this is why we made a graduate program. IB talent is not cutting it right now.
OP and some others complaining about a whole lot of nothing in this thread
As if being born a righteous citizen in the most advanced and prosperous economy in the world wasn’t enough of a birth lottery, now the sliver of seats on wall st. that go to foreigners (who also have to jump through ridiculous hoops, arbitrary visa processes, and generally have it 10x harder) need to go to give yourself another leg up. Give me a break lmfao
If OP is even somewhat indicative of the average intelligence of an American in finance, no wonder UBS is “abusing” the system to bring in more foreigners
Omg thank god someone said it
Fr
Thank you
Look hiring for entry level roles in finance is not what the H1-B program is for. Signaling that no American is qualified or able to do that same role is beyond belief.
If you’re American and you lose your seat to an international, you’re just retarded. Internationals are discriminated against like crazy due to cultural differences and visa restrictions, so the American candidate has to be much much worse to lose the offer to the international
you are assuming internationals are dumb, you asshole
Thank you. What angers me is that ithe people who complain are driven by pure self interest.They cant compete on an equal ground and have to give themselves an aritificial advantage. This isn't who is willing to work on a ranch for 2c but for the most competitive and hardest jobs in the world. Please get it past your dumb skull that its ultimately benefits the original country.
Displacement means the employer lays off a U.S. worker and replaces them specifically with an H1B visa worker. it has nothing to do with the application process competitiveness
UBS has fired dozens this year citing restructuring yet still hires and retains those on H1-B visas. Make it make sense
UBS is actively doing this and can think of examples in several groups
-
Most of the comments here are why the MAGA movement will only grow and populism will continue to dominate politics.
A lot of the people here seem to demonize prioritizing Americans for jobs in America and believe all jobs in the US should totally be up for grabs. So much so that very intelligent people are willing to bend backwards and twist H1-B into something the legal text says it clearly is not.
Apparently it will come as a shock to the well educated high finance class that Americans don’t support legal loopholes that make them second class citizens.
Smartest PWM professional
These jobs are already prioritized for Americans. It is way more expensive/tedious to hire someone via H1B. I understand this isn’t particularly relevant to your field of employment, but the domestic talent pool is super volatile in terms of quality and it is not trivial to find qualified Americans.
https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/ETA/oflc/pdfs/Form-WH-4.pdf
Things banks can't do:
Here is where UBS Americas gets its applicants:
https://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/UBS-Americas/565815.htm
Green Card Applicant Profile: Citizenship: India(176); China(23); United Kingdom(8); Canada(4); Brazil(3); Australia(3); Poland(3); Switzerland(3); Germany(2); France(2); Mexico(2); Ukraine(2)China and India are not US Allies, enough is enough
Currently, India and the United States enjoy close relations and have deepened collaboration on issues such as counterterrorism and countering Chinese influence in the Indo-Pacific.
fuck, OP, can you at least open Linux?
if you don't, maybe there's still smth for u. I may reach out to some guys at UBS, you may be a great fit for tacking care of headphones or screen tickets i.e. running to the FO guys and helping them plug the accessories.
would that solve ur frustration? please tell me it does because 80% of those are in IT/Tech
I see at least 30 finance jobs there. Not to say those with engineering degrees can't also be taking finance jobs.
Multiply this by many firms and bingo theres the problem
Watching MAGA voters suck Elon’s dick during the campaign only for him and Vivek to come out and make these comments has been absolutely hilarious to watch
Who could have guessed that a foreign-born, tech billionaire wasn’t going to be an “America-first” ideologue?
If it werent for the H1-B Visa, supply and demand says banking salaries would likely be 10% higher
Ddt
Preach brother! Its not unamerican, its taking care of Americans first and making sure US wealth stays within the US as much as possible. Hiring so many H1-Bs causes leakage of US wealth to other countries
Inaccurate, in most cases the offspring will be born in ‘Murica
How are they allowed to have mass layoffs in banking yet still petition for new H1-B Visas?
Seriously!
Do you actually think that they hire during layoffs? There’s a hiring freeze lmao dude you are speaking a lot out of your ass
If you look at all the H1-B visas dates and roles it seems to line up with layoffs.
Common practice (and illegal) and 60 minutes episode on it Sunday
Uh oh how are the incels on this platform going to blame it on DEI and Black People?
My goal is to hire the best talent I can wherever they are from (I don’t work ar UBS so I can actually attract talent) and I will oppose any policy that stands in the way. And in my opinion, the talent pool for banking is way higher in Europe, Canada, Australia and S Africa than it is in the US (as well as IITs in India). That’s the way it is.
Again H1-Bs are not to hire the best, its to fill a void in the US jobs market
I don’t think they care my man
Bro if you’re not happy with the way things are, just grind and become a ceo at a Fortune 500. I don’t see how this impacts your life’s outcome in the long run
Most banks do this. I am at an EB, and a lot of my fellow analysts are internationals on H1Bs. Being American shouldn't guarantee you a job if you apply compared to an international student. This thread is full of too many frustrated people who either couldn't get a job or didn't end up at a firm they wanted. I am a straight white male from target without previous finance connections and got into an EB. It's not that it's impossible to get good BB/EB IB roles as an American you just didn't get it because you aren't good enough.
Hear Hear! People just dont want to compete and rather give themselves an artificial leg up. You ssee it with the DEI crowd and now with the ethnonationalist MAGA crowd. Why is there such a big emphasis on where/the colour of skin you were born with???
del
Damn so do we want DEI programs for the poor Americans without a banking job?
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