Target vs. Non-Target

One thing that's very disheartening to read on this forum is the bias against kids from targets. Apparently, kids from targets just happened to be privileged enough to get into a good school while kids from non-targets unfairly get screwed. I'm sorry, but when did working hard in high school and middle school become "privileged"? I know some outstanding kids at non-targets and mediocre kids at targets, but the kids here who attack targets on here honestly sound like OWS. 99% of the spots in banking are filled with 1% of schools!!!!!!

Listen: If I'm looking at Harvard 3.6 Poli Sci with no real internships, and a Non-Target 3.6 Finance with boutique IBD internships, I'm taking the former ALL DAY (assuming that he's sociable, knows what IBD is, etc.). Why? Because I know that Harvard kid was motivated enough to spend 4 years in high school working his ass off, getting 2300+ SATs and 3.9+ GPAs and leading sports teams while the Non-Target kid made some cold-calls to random boutiques and got lucky. Yes, you can argue the whole "can't afford Harvard" or "rich parents made donations" angle (and I ABSOLUTELY sympathize with the kids who couldn't afford to go to Stern or GTown or some other low-financial aid school), but generally speaking, most targets are actually incredibly generous with financial aid and development cases make up a tiny portion of the population (and those kids get hooked up anyway). In fact coming from a poor background helps you get into Harvard.

Just my rant. To quote someone from this forum, "it's not a silver spoon if you've earned it." I'm not bashing non-target kids in anyway (the ones I've met in banking are terrific), just the ones who paint the Ivies with the same broad stroke.

 
Best Response

I'm a non-target and I have a ton of respect for people who attended target schools. Even when I was working in a BO type of role, I knew I got what I deserved and I also knew that from that point on I would have to work twice as hard to make up for all of the bullshitting I did in school. I should've worked harder in HS, I should have scored higher on my SATs, I should have applied and gotten into better colleges, but I didn't...I was average at best, so why bitch about it?

The whole "can't afford Harvard" shit is crap. There are plenty of shitty schools out there that cost 35-40k+ a year and kids still go there and still complain about it like god hates them or something...Fuck that.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 
Flake:
I'm a non-target and I have a ton of respect for people who attended target schools. Even when I was working in a BO type of role, I knew I got what I deserved and I also knew that from that point on I would have to work twice as hard to make up for all of the bullshitting I did in school. I should've worked harder in HS, I should have scored higher on my SATs, I should have applied and gotten into better colleges, but I didn't...I was average at best, so why bitch about it?

The whole "can't afford Harvard" shit is crap. There are plenty of shitty schools out there that cost 35-40k+ a year and kids still go there and still complain about it like god hates them or something...Fuck that.

Not to point this finger at you, because you do seem like a pretty smart guy, but there is way too much shoulda, coulda, woulda on this forum in general

 
jaschen27:
Flake:
I'm a non-target and I have a ton of respect for people who attended target schools. Even when I was working in a BO type of role, I knew I got what I deserved and I also knew that from that point on I would have to work twice as hard to make up for all of the bullshitting I did in school. I should've worked harder in HS, I should have scored higher on my SATs, I should have applied and gotten into better colleges, but I didn't...I was average at best, so why bitch about it?

The whole "can't afford Harvard" shit is crap. There are plenty of shitty schools out there that cost 35-40k+ a year and kids still go there and still complain about it like god hates them or something...Fuck that.

Not to point this finger at you, because you do seem like a pretty smart guy, but there is way too much shoulda, coulda, woulda on this forum in general

Agreed.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 
Sexy_Like_Enrique:
There is a particular poster on this forum who bashes Ivies every chance he gets, resorting to saying that getting into Harvard undergrad is the work of your parents, not your own work.

Sounds like a bitter asshole.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 
Flake:
Sexy_Like_Enrique:
There is a particular poster on this forum who bashes Ivies every chance he gets, resorting to saying that getting into Harvard undergrad is the work of your parents, not your own work.

Sounds like a bitter asshole.

I have a lot of respect for that guy, he's a smart guy that gives a lot of sound advice on this forum and he is one of the top posters on this forum.

However, he has the biggest chip on his shoulder against Ivies for some reason.

 
seedy underbelly:
Sexy_Like_Enrique:
There is a particular poster on this forum who bashes Ivies every chance he gets, resorting to saying that getting into Harvard undergrad is the work of your parents, not your own work.

illini?

Yes. Just go read the thread:

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/lowest-ranked-mba-you-would-atten…

page 6-7.

His viewpoint is that all it takes to get into Harvard is to be born under high-achieving parents, and it is the work of those pushy parents that get a kid into Harvard, not the kid's own hard work and intellect. Hence, just because a kid goes to Harvard, that in and out of itself doesn't signal the kid's intellect, hard work, or whatever, but it just tells employers that this kid comes from an elite family background.

As much as I respect illini, I get really pissed when I encounter ridiculous viewpoints such as this.

 
firefighter:
One thing that's very disheartening to read on this forum is the bias against kids from targets. Apparently, kids from targets just happened to be privileged enough to get into a good school while kids from non-targets unfairly get screwed. I'm sorry, but when did working hard in high school and middle school become "privileged"? I know some outstanding kids at non-targets and mediocre kids at targets, but the kids here who attack targets on here honestly sound like OWS. 99% of the spots in banking are filled with 1% of schools!!!!!!

Listen: If I'm looking at Harvard 3.6 Poli Sci with no real internships, and a Non-Target 3.6 Finance with boutique IBD internships, I'm taking the former ALL DAY (assuming that he's sociable, knows what IBD is, etc.). Why? Because I know that Harvard kid was motivated enough to spend 4 years in high school working his ass off, getting 2300+ SATs and 3.9+ GPAs and leading sports teams while the Non-Target kid made some cold-calls to random boutiques and got lucky. Yes, you can argue the whole "can't afford Harvard" or "rich parents made donations" angle (and I ABSOLUTELY sympathize with the kids who couldn't afford to go to Stern or GTown or some other low-financial aid school), but generally speaking, most targets are actually incredibly generous with financial aid and development cases make up a tiny portion of the population (and those kids get hooked up anyway). In fact coming from a poor background helps you get into Harvard.

Just my rant. To quote someone from this forum, "it's not a silver spoon if you've earned it." I'm not bashing non-target kids in anyway (the ones I've met in banking are terrific), just the ones who paint the Ivies with the same broad stroke.

Take everything you read on this website with a grain of salt. You'd think half of the people on this board are terminally ill by the constant complaining

 

I don't judge people based on the school they attended (unless it's WVU). To assume that somebody had a 3.9 GPA, 2300+ SAT, and "led sports teams" (lol what?) in high school in order to get into Harvard is just plain retarded. And I admit I'm somewhat bitter over my education, but really, that's a fucking stupid assumption not grounded in reality. People get into top schools for many different reasons.

 
jaschen27:
Every kid i know who went to a top 5 school earned every bit of it in high school. How many fucking "elite families" do there have to be to populate the ranks of the ivy league?

Yes. Unless you are a Bush or a Kennedy, you aren't getting into Harvard just because of who your daddy is. This is a irrefutable fact.

Actually, coming from a non-elite family background may help you get into Harvard, ironically. Being an impoverished URM from inner-city region will make it 100 times easier to get into Harvard compared to a talented gunner White or Asian guy. Sad, but true.

 
Sexy_Like_Enrique:
jaschen27:
Every kid i know who went to a top 5 school earned every bit of it in high school. How many fucking "elite families" do there have to be to populate the ranks of the ivy league?

Yes. Unless you are a Bush or a Kennedy, you aren't getting into Harvard just because of who your daddy is. This is a irrefutable fact.

Actually, coming from a non-elite family background may help you get into Harvard, ironically. Being an impoverished URM from inner-city region will make it 100 times easier to get into Harvard compared to a talented gunner White or Asian guy. Sad, but true.

I think this completely ignores the fact that many high schools feed into the Ivies (mainly prestigious prep schools and Catholic private schools). Simply going to a public school puts you at a disadvantage for many of the Ivies.

On the other hand, I agree that especially non-traditional backgrounds probably benefit you for Ivy admissions.

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 

Just a caveat: to those who say that not everyone who got into an Ivy earned it and not everyone who could have gone Ivy went, that's what the SAT/high school sections are for. If I see that you had a 4.0 in HS and good SATs but went to a non-target, I'll basically give you the benefit of the doubt as if you actually went to an Ivy

 
firefighter:
Just a caveat: to those who say that not everyone who got into an Ivy earned it and not everyone who could have gone Ivy went, that's what the SAT/high school sections are for. If I see that you had a 4.0 in HS and good SATs but went to a non-target, I'll basically give you the benefit of the doubt as if you actually went to an Ivy

Where are these sections you're talking about?

 

I think that his, and most peoples reasoning for such a statement is pretty sound. I've even had a number of highly successful people who have already in a sense "made it" speak of such an established system. These are people making 7-8 figures in professional services (IB, Consulting, Law, F500 execs, etc...).

These people have said that they way to ensure their children's success is to get them into the best undergraduate programs (ivy) and that way even if they don't go on to some prestigious career path they have an advantage over pretty much everyone for other job types and volunteer work because of this "brand name" school. But here is the catch: how do you ensure your child gets into an ivy league school?

Well the answer is pretty simple. Get them into a private high school (tuition $20,000-$80,000/yr). How do you go about getting them into a private high school though?

Again, the answer is pretty simple. Get them into a private junior high/grade school (tuition $20,000-$80,000/yr). But again, how do we get them into that private grade school?

You can tell where I am going with this. Get them into private Kindergarten, Preschool and Daycare (all still at the same tuition level).

Obviously not everyone who attends an Ivy league goes through this same track but from my experience the Ivy coworkers almost always went to a private high schools (which I think for the most part can imply the rest of the formula took place in some way, shape or form) unless they have some miraculous story. The "higher-ups" that I've met 100% swear by this system and just a simple multiplication gets you a grand total of $300,000 - $1,200,000 before your child opens up a dorm door at their new Ivy college. In a way this argument helps to explain the increasing income/wealth disparity of our country. Kids lives are decided before they are in Preschool.

 
ProspectiveMonkey:
I think that his, and most peoples reasoning for such a statement is pretty sound. I've even had a number of highly successful people who have already in a sense "made it" speak of such an established system. These are people making 7-8 figures in professional services (IB, Consulting, Law, F500 execs, etc...).

These people have said that they way to ensure their children's success is to get them into the best undergraduate programs (ivy) and that way even if they don't go on to some prestigious career path they have an advantage over pretty much everyone for other job types and volunteer work because of this "brand name" school. But here is the catch: how do you ensure your child gets into an ivy league school?

Well the answer is pretty simple. Get them into a private high school (tuition $20,000-$80,000/yr). How do you go about getting them into a private high school though?

Again, the answer is pretty simple. Get them into a private junior high/grade school (tuition $20,000-$80,000/yr). But again, how do we get them into that private grade school?

You can tell where I am going with this. Get them into private Kindergarten, Preschool and Daycare (all still at the same tuition level).

Obviously not everyone who attends an Ivy league goes through this same track but from my experience the Ivy coworkers almost always went to a private high schools (which I think for the most part can imply the rest of the formula took place in some way, shape or form) unless they have some miraculous story. The "higher-ups" that I've met 100% swear by this system and just a simple multiplication gets you a grand total of $300,000 - $1,200,000 before your child opens up a dorm door at their new Ivy college. In a way this argument helps to explain the increasing income/wealth disparity of our country. Kids lives are decided before they are in Preschool.

Are you retarded?

So, attending a private school gets you into an Ivy?! LOL. I guess that the nearly 100% of the kids at every typical Private HS, and about 80% of the kids at every elite Private school (just 5 or 6 elite schools, really) just lucked out by only getting into semi/non-targets, right?

 
seedy underbelly:
ProspectiveMonkey:
I think that his, and most peoples reasoning for such a statement is pretty sound. I've even had a number of highly successful people who have already in a sense "made it" speak of such an established system. These are people making 7-8 figures in professional services (IB, Consulting, Law, F500 execs, etc...).

These people have said that they way to ensure their children's success is to get them into the best undergraduate programs (ivy) and that way even if they don't go on to some prestigious career path they have an advantage over pretty much everyone for other job types and volunteer work because of this "brand name" school. But here is the catch: how do you ensure your child gets into an ivy league school?

Well the answer is pretty simple. Get them into a private high school (tuition $20,000-$80,000/yr). How do you go about getting them into a private high school though?

Again, the answer is pretty simple. Get them into a private junior high/grade school (tuition $20,000-$80,000/yr). But again, how do we get them into that private grade school?

You can tell where I am going with this. Get them into private Kindergarten, Preschool and Daycare (all still at the same tuition level).

Obviously not everyone who attends an Ivy league goes through this same track but from my experience the Ivy coworkers almost always went to a private high schools (which I think for the most part can imply the rest of the formula took place in some way, shape or form) unless they have some miraculous story. The "higher-ups" that I've met 100% swear by this system and just a simple multiplication gets you a grand total of $300,000 - $1,200,000 before your child opens up a dorm door at their new Ivy college. In a way this argument helps to explain the increasing income/wealth disparity of our country. Kids lives are decided before they are in Preschool.

Are you retarded?

So, attending a private school gets you into an Ivy?! LOL. I guess that the nearly 100% of the kids at every typical Private HS, and about 80% of the kids at every elite Private school (just 5 or 6 elite schools, really) just lucked out by only getting into semi/non-targets, right?

Seedy, for once, I 100% agree with you.

How does going to a private school = acceptance letter to Harvard??!!

If anything, if you go to an elite prep school, you are living AWAY from your 'elite' parents, so you are more on your own to get your shit done.

 
seedy underbelly:
ProspectiveMonkey:
I think that his, and most peoples reasoning for such a statement is pretty sound. I've even had a number of highly successful people who have already in a sense "made it" speak of such an established system. These are people making 7-8 figures in professional services (IB, Consulting, Law, F500 execs, etc...).

These people have said that they way to ensure their children's success is to get them into the best undergraduate programs (ivy) and that way even if they don't go on to some prestigious career path they have an advantage over pretty much everyone for other job types and volunteer work because of this "brand name" school. But here is the catch: how do you ensure your child gets into an ivy league school?

Well the answer is pretty simple. Get them into a private high school (tuition $20,000-$80,000/yr). How do you go about getting them into a private high school though?

Again, the answer is pretty simple. Get them into a private junior high/grade school (tuition $20,000-$80,000/yr). But again, how do we get them into that private grade school?

You can tell where I am going with this. Get them into private Kindergarten, Preschool and Daycare (all still at the same tuition level).

Obviously not everyone who attends an Ivy league goes through this same track but from my experience the Ivy coworkers almost always went to a private high schools (which I think for the most part can imply the rest of the formula took place in some way, shape or form) unless they have some miraculous story. The "higher-ups" that I've met 100% swear by this system and just a simple multiplication gets you a grand total of $300,000 - $1,200,000 before your child opens up a dorm door at their new Ivy college. In a way this argument helps to explain the increasing income/wealth disparity of our country. Kids lives are decided before they are in Preschool.

Are you retarded?

So, attending a private school gets you into an Ivy?! LOL. I guess that the nearly 100% of the kids at every typical Private HS, and about 80% of the kids at every elite Private school (just 5 or 6 elite schools, really) just lucked out by only getting into semi/non-targets, right?

Before you go around calling people retarded look in the mirror. I work and live in Manhattan and I have seen first hand the craziness and competition that goes into gaining admission to a Pre-K Private Prep program. From coworkers with toddlers to neighbors, the competition is fierce. I was told last week by a coworker that his kid was recently denied admission to a private 25K/Year school (for a 4 year old!!!) due to the lottery system and pre-admission testing they used. To top it off, this school GUARANTEES top tier college admission (how? I have no clue). It is absurd but sadly in Manhattan this private school shark infested, parent controlled pressure exists. One last thing- I overheard someone being ridiculed becuase they haven't started using flashcards with their 3 year old to prep for private school admissions- sickening.

 
seedy underbelly:
ProspectiveMonkey:
I think that his, and most peoples reasoning for such a statement is pretty sound. I've even had a number of highly successful people who have already in a sense "made it" speak of such an established system. These are people making 7-8 figures in professional services (IB, Consulting, Law, F500 execs, etc...).

These people have said that they way to ensure their children's success is to get them into the best undergraduate programs (ivy) and that way even if they don't go on to some prestigious career path they have an advantage over pretty much everyone for other job types and volunteer work because of this "brand name" school. But here is the catch: how do you ensure your child gets into an ivy league school?

Well the answer is pretty simple. Get them into a private high school (tuition $20,000-$80,000/yr). How do you go about getting them into a private high school though?

Again, the answer is pretty simple. Get them into a private junior high/grade school (tuition $20,000-$80,000/yr). But again, how do we get them into that private grade school?

You can tell where I am going with this. Get them into private Kindergarten, Preschool and Daycare (all still at the same tuition level).

Obviously not everyone who attends an Ivy league goes through this same track but from my experience the Ivy coworkers almost always went to a private high schools (which I think for the most part can imply the rest of the formula took place in some way, shape or form) unless they have some miraculous story. The "higher-ups" that I've met 100% swear by this system and just a simple multiplication gets you a grand total of $300,000 - $1,200,000 before your child opens up a dorm door at their new Ivy college. In a way this argument helps to explain the increasing income/wealth disparity of our country. Kids lives are decided before they are in Preschool.

Are you retarded?

So, attending a private school gets you into an Ivy?! LOL. I guess that the nearly 100% of the kids at every typical Private HS, and about 80% of the kids at every elite Private school (just 5 or 6 elite schools, really) just lucked out by only getting into semi/non-targets, right?

WTF.... Do you and Sexy_like_enrique really think that going to elite prep school doesn't give its students a ANY advantage in getting into elite American colleges?

Nobody says elite private prep schools guarantee admission, and they don't. But these prep schools are basically your "target" schools for Ivies admission recruiting. For example, not everyone at Wharton get to go to BBs, elite boutiques, HFs and PEs out of college, but a descent number of them do compared to the rest of the universities in US and preferences are given to them over non-targets. It's the same shit at prep-school level: Not everyone at Andover or Harvard west-lake go to Ivies but a significant percentage of them get into elite colleges. And not just American private schools feeds students into American universities, a lot of elite prep schools kids from all around the world feed their students into top American colleges . Ever heard of the G20 schools? I bet you have not. These schools take prides in who sends the most students into HYP. And you and Sexy_like_Enrique refuse to acknowledge that going to private schools doesn't give any advantages in getting into Ivies?

Going to elite private junior schools does give a HUGE advantage for its students to go to Ivies and top LACs. You guys might be smart and likeable on other issues but on this simple matter you sounded so fucking retarded and ignorant.

BTW: some prep schools at kindergarten level is harder to gain admission than Harvard (source: Too Big To Fail).

 
ProspectiveMonkey:
I think that his, and most peoples reasoning for such a statement is pretty sound. I've even had a number of highly successful people who have already in a sense "made it" speak of such an established system. These are people making 7-8 figures in professional services (IB, Consulting, Law, F500 execs, etc...).

These people have said that they way to ensure their children's success is to get them into the best undergraduate programs (ivy) and that way even if they don't go on to some prestigious career path they have an advantage over pretty much everyone for other job types and volunteer work because of this "brand name" school. But here is the catch: how do you ensure your child gets into an ivy league school?

Well the answer is pretty simple. Get them into a private high school (tuition $20,000-$80,000/yr). How do you go about getting them into a private high school though?

Again, the answer is pretty simple. Get them into a private junior high/grade school (tuition $20,000-$80,000/yr). But again, how do we get them into that private grade school?

You can tell where I am going with this. Get them into private Kindergarten, Preschool and Daycare (all still at the same tuition level).

Obviously not everyone who attends an Ivy league goes through this same track but from my experience the Ivy coworkers almost always went to a private high schools (which I think for the most part can imply the rest of the formula took place in some way, shape or form) unless they have some miraculous story. The "higher-ups" that I've met 100% swear by this system and just a simple multiplication gets you a grand total of $300,000 - $1,200,000 before your child opens up a dorm door at their new Ivy college. In a way this argument helps to explain the increasing income/wealth disparity of our country. Kids lives are decided before they are in Preschool.

http://admissions.cornell.edu/

From Cornell, 66% of kids come from public high schools, 18% come from private, and 16% from home school. I am too lazy to check on Harvard stats, but my guess is they're similar.

Clearly, most of kids at an Ivy school come from non-private high school.

My take on this is that sure, having an elite parents would work to your advantage, but it balances out: Asians or whites (or Jews) have to overcome much higher admissions hurdle standards to get into top colleges than many of poor URM kids, who may not have pushy or elite parents.

In other words, you need to compete against others from similar backgrounds as you, and stand out from that crowd, to get into Harvard. If you are a 2300 SAT scorer and Asian or Jewish, you are competing against hundreds of other gunner Asians or Jewish kids with very elite or pushy parents to get in, and you aren't competing against those poor black kids whose parents don't give a fuck about their kids' education.

Bottom line is this - no matter how 'elite' or pushy your parents are, you obviously need the drive, diligence, and due intelligence to get into top colleges unless you are a Bush or a Kennedy. Individual merit trumps familial pedigree in this equation, by far.

Lastly, the vast majority of kids at Ivies get substantial financial aid, implying that majority of kids at Ivies don't come from money.

 

parents are such a big factor in getting into any good college. if you had shitty parents that didn't give a fuck about you and grew up in a shitty neighborhood with shitty schools, you probably aren't getting into any college at all. having overachieving parents that forced you into extracurriculars, made you go to an SAT tutor, and made sure you did your homework, will give you such a great advantage over anyone else. i strongly believe in nurture over nature for this.

 
whatwhatwhat:
parents are such a big factor in getting into any good college. if you had shitty parents that didn't give a fuck about you and grew up in a shitty neighborhood with shitty schools, you probably aren't getting into any college at all.

You're right, and of course I'll consider where the kid came from, etc. when thinking about resume selections. If dude went to Andover and ended up at a non-target, it's a much different story than a kid from North Dakota who ended up at a Big 10. Information isn't perfect unfortunately, and so we'll use school as a screen and take kids from then.

 
firefighter:
...while the Non-Target kid made some cold-calls to random boutiques and got lucky.
. Just to establish perspective, I am a non-target. I agree with your post and think that target kids get shat on way too often in this forum. However, don’t you dare belittle the process of getting in from a non-target. I can’t tell you how many hours I spent building a list of contacts over a 2-3 year period, how I had to travel back a forth from school 6 hours at a time for a 30 minute lunch with some rando who perhaps could get my resume to the right person. I had to bust my hump like a slave working for nothing for an entire summer just to get a little experience. (Actually paying to work because I had to pay for transportation).Now that may not be the typical nontarget story but it certainly highlights the painstaking efforts many of these kids take to get their resumes in front of a banker. Also, and remember this ..."The harder you work, the LUCKIER you become"
 
U Accrete Me:
firefighter:
...while the Non-Target kid made some cold-calls to random boutiques and got lucky.
. Just to establish perspective, I am a non-target. I agree with your post and think that target kids get shat on way too often in this forum. However, don’t you dare belittle the process of getting in from a non-target. I can’t tell you how many hours I spent building a list of contacts over a 2-3 year period, how I had to travel back a forth from school 6 hours at a time for a 30 minute lunch with some rando who perhaps could get my resume to the right person. I had to bust my hump like a slave working for nothing for an entire summer just to get a little experience. (Actually paying to work because I had to pay for transportation).Now that may not be the typical nontarget story but it certainly highlights the painstaking efforts many of these kids take to get their resumes in front of a banker. Also, and remember this ..."The harder you work, the LUCKIER you become"

I actually have more respect for non-target kids who broke into IB than the target kids. It shows your passion, dedication, and preparation.

However, one thing that may make your life easier: if you are at non-target but want a shot at banking OCR, just transfer to a target or semi-target school.

Getting into HYP as a transfer is impossible, but schools like Indiana, UNC, U Michigan, UVA, UCLA, Northwestern, UIUC, Cornell, Boston College, or Duke. These schools get pretty decent OCR from banks, yet they're far from being impossible to get into as a transfer if you have competitive stats.

Indiana, in particular, is a very easy school to get into, yet they have a decent placement record into IB. (they have an IB workshop from which IB placement success is very high)

 

Another thing -

If your parents are rich as fuck or very well connected, you don't need to attend Harvard to get a good job. You can bank on your daddy's connections or accumulated wealth to coast through your life, and as a result, may have less incentive to get into a top college and gun for IBD analyst gig compared to a guy that comes from a poor family background who is hungry as fuck to attain financial success via elite education and hard work.

Clearly, there are both sides to the argument, but in the end, it is clearly the individual's merit and intellect that will get him to Harvard.

 
JDawg:
why does WSO find these stupid arguments about prestige so fascinating?

It kills time.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 
technoviking:
OCR at Target = GS,MS, JPM, etc OCR at Non-Target = Aflac Salesman

Dont tell me Targets work just as hard..

Nobody actually cares what's happening with OCR. The subject is all about the fact that you don't just miraculousely end up in a target.

While you were trying to bang that high school hot chick and throwing paper balls at the teacher the Ivy guys were studying to get perfect SAT scores.

Now instead of waiting for JPMorgan to come to your campus you have to work your ass off. Sounds pretty fair considering your former laziness.

There are exceptions, stupid kids in targets and bright ones in non-targets, but broadly speaking, it seems that non-targets are just ranting because they realise (too late) that studying hard at high school was actually worth it, and not just a weirdo thing.

Your reasoning sounds like : - Why do private equity firms prefer those retarded privileged guys from Morgan Stanley ?

I'm a hardworking genious working for [email protected] and I have to work 100 times harder than ex-MS to get an interview with KKR.

 

Plenty of qualified people are rejected from the Ivies, people who had similar stats and ECs to those that got in. Some of them end up going to other t20s but a lot of them end up going to non-targets. Just because someone didn't get into an Ivy doesn't mean they were slacking off in high school.

 

I think if I'm looking at Harvard 3.6 vs. non-target 3.6 w/ boutique internships, straight up I'll go Harvard. No question. But if the non-target guy has good SATs, has networked with my firm, and seems to be hustling while the Harvard guy just clicks two buttons on OCR, I'd probably take the non-target.

MM IB -> Corporate Development -> Strategic Finance
 

Private HS does not guarantee you an easy route into an IVY but I am sure it helps a lot.

From a European perspective, Oxbridge here is full of private/grammar school kids and its true that some colleges have a bias towards them. But who can blame them? They start college much sharper, well rounded than the state school kids.

I went to a wack inner city school which placed about 10 people into a decent college every year. Our HS A Level grades were far below the national average. We didn't have the careers/college talks nor did we do anything that was enriching. Now in contrast to a lot of friends who came from private high schools, their profiles were full of charity work abroad, employer insight days, work experience etc.

It certainly does not help to come from a state school when interviewing at a place like Oxford for a Economics degree and the interviewer asks you "What is your view on Neo-Liberal Economists?" - everything taught at states schools here is the bare minimum, syllabus material.

The fact is I went to HS with a lot of bright people, far brighter than me who came out with crappy grades but its important to note that no matter how good or bad the teaching is, you have to work at it yourself. Nonetheless, these guys who might have gotten into a decent college now don't have a chance in hell at applying to any IB because A Level grades are screened online.

Fees are a not a problem here for british citizens since it costs the same to go to Oxbridge as it does to go to SuperDigreeezColage and that is where the high school system comes into play.

 

You guys do have to admit that getting into an Ivy such as Harvard these days is a crapshoot, right?

And CKS2016, people like you are the reason why non-target kids are biased against target kids. I understand what you are saying, but do you see why a kid who has done everything in HIS power (3.8+, internships, ECs, "led sports teams", etc) who went to a "great school" would be frustrated that a "middle of the pack" Ivy league kid, who may or may not know what IBD even is, gets the nod "every day of the week"?

"That dude is so haole, he don't even have any breath left."
 

This is the typical crap you hear from the upper class, that they earned it more than the lower class and it has nothing to do with the situation they were born into. Many kids from poorer backgrounds like myself had to work 40-50 hours a week in high school. Its almost impossible to get great grades if you have to contribute to the family income in this way. From an upper class background, many kids don't have to work, so they are able to get 3.9's and lead sports teams. I'm not saying that one works harder than the other, they probably both work about the same when all is added up (the rich kids great grades and sports achievements vs. the poor kids work hours and mediocre grades) its just that one might go to Harvard the other might just get into a state school.

 

Some people bash the ivies here, no doubt about that. Ivies also take every chance they get to flash the name of their school like they are better than everyone else. MBA programs are one thing, undergrad recruiting is another:

Hire the kid with experience.