Comments (255)

 
  • Intern in IB - Ind
Apr 8, 2020 - 5:17pm

This is uncomfirmed as of now....but very possible to be true stay tuned...

 
Apr 9, 2020 - 12:12am

I asked the HR regarding "minimum requirements of the abbreviated program," and she has informed me that it means "graduate successfully as planned and within the timeframe required as per Citi requirements or satisfactory performance during your internship this summer." My question here now is: then does mean that a return for full time is just the same as it was in previous years (based on performance)? I am not understanding this minimum requirement thing.

 
Apr 8, 2020 - 5:21pm

I am an incoming IB SA and they said that we will "receive a full-time offer" as long as "minimum requirements of the abbreviated program" is met.

They also mentioned that they will push the internship back to July 6 while giving out 10 weeks' pay.

They are "carefully considering" a remote program as well and will be giving out future updates in the next week or so.

This also only applies to interns in the New York, London, Hong Kong, Singapore, and Tokyo programs.

SF, Houston, and Chicago are eligible for full time offers from what I read on this post but not sure

 
Apr 8, 2020 - 11:26pm

Hi, do you happen to know if this applies to the whole division? Meaning all divisions under the Markets and Securities Services?

 
  • Intern in IB - Ind
Apr 8, 2020 - 5:32pm

CONFIRMED, wow! I said this yesterday already on the Moelis thread, but shame on all those butt-hurt analysts fear mongering the interns and telling them to start getting their grad school applications ready and the such....this is a BIG move coming from a BB especially from one that is not necessarily one of a small class size. Just yesterday we were debating if even another EB would follow along!

 
  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Apr 8, 2020 - 6:52pm

Lmaooo

"And last thing: out of all the dumb shit people are making up about what is going to happen, the dumbest is "automatic return offer." If you think banks need you that badly, you better check urself. Just because y'all want that to happen really badly, it doesn't mean it's even an option. No idea who was the delusional junior who made that up, but I would erase that option of ur mind ASAP, cuz it ain't happening. Could bet my now non-existent bonus on it." - Goldmonkey Sachs

So can I PM you my Venmo Goldmonkey Sachs

 
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Apr 8, 2020 - 5:39pm

Is this only for the locations mentioned above or applies to other locations such as Houston, Toronto, Calgary etc. as well?

 
  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Apr 8, 2020 - 6:34pm

I think CB and IB is about 50% ft offer rate considering teams are smaller in Toronto ! just grind it out , but I'm sure impressing in a shortened period could maybe give everyone an offer. or the deal flow is so weak that no one gets it , I have no idea

 
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Apr 8, 2020 - 5:51pm

Probably not the GS/JPM/MS cuz they have much larger classes but you never know. Sounds like interns at the regional offices of these banks are probably fucked by the sounds of the comment above who didn't get guaranteed return in Toronto

 
  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Apr 8, 2020 - 6:11pm

Citi has over 300 interns across BCMA and S&T in NYC alone, would be surprised if GS/JP/MS have "much larger" classes, if they are at all larger. Maybe JP.

 
  • Intern in IB - Ind
Apr 8, 2020 - 6:16pm

I am working at one of those three and know we do not have much larger class sizes, in IB in NYC at least, than citi. Also covg group i worked in had 92% return offer rate so wouldn't be shcoked if they all followed

 
  • Summer Associate in Other
Apr 8, 2020 - 8:16pm

If GS/JPM/MS/BofA dont extend full time offers as well it will reflect very poorly on their culture. Would be shocked if all BB's don't follow suit

 
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Apr 8, 2020 - 5:52pm

Anyone know what might happen for Houston/Calgary offices (O&G groups only)? Could oil price crash impact these offices even worse and potentially no real return offers?

 
  • Prospect in IB - Ind
Apr 8, 2020 - 5:54pm

Congrats everyone! These are unprecedented times, I hope other banks follow suit. People have more to worry about that if they'll still be able to get an offer with everything being virtual.

 
  • Intern in IB - DCM
Apr 8, 2020 - 5:55pm

Are regional offices (SF,CHI,HOU) included in this?

 
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Apr 8, 2020 - 6:08pm

The problem is both GS and JP were the first ones to shorten the internship with full pay (Citi followed). If 100% FT offers were possible, they would've included that. Thats probably why they most likely wont follow suit

 
  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Apr 8, 2020 - 6:16pm

Citi had 361 SAs in NYC in 2019 across IB, CMO, CB, S&T, ER, SLP. Offer rate around 80%.

 
Apr 9, 2020 - 2:31am

It's not the most accurate, but I did a LinkedIn search for incoming IBD SA at Citi and JPM, and JPM had 89 while Citi had 88...

"Markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent."

 
  • Intern in IB - Ind
Apr 9, 2020 - 11:07am

The number for Citi may be accurate not sure, but there are definitely more than 90 SA for JPM...typically closer to 120.

 
  • Intern in IB - Gen
Apr 10, 2020 - 1:29pm

JPM has ~120 incoming SA, including Product, coverage, ECM DCM & corporate financial advisory, regional investment banking

 
Apr 8, 2020 - 6:19pm

Can someone with HR experience or experience on a recruiting team explain the incentives for Citi/Moelis to give full time offers to all of the interns?

It seems like it can lead to some silly outcomes (interns not actually putting in the amount of effort required, kids shopping around their FT offer right now, etc). Even if it were to be a virtual program, I'm sure there would be at least a small minority of people who can be weeded out with confidence

 
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Apr 8, 2020 - 6:21pm

Probably what will happen as email states 'offer contingent on completion of program'. Assuming they'll find some loopholes to weed out some summers.

 
  • Prospect in IB - DCM
Apr 8, 2020 - 6:23pm

Think Moelis's email said the same thing...guess we'll wait and see if it's really 100%

 
Apr 8, 2020 - 6:30pm

Well, surely something seems material about the decision here, as it only includes certain offices. It seems silly to include in the email if this wasn't pretty close to a formality about getting a FT offer.

For PWC, I believe the minimum requirements for the offer were promulgated as simply the completion of the two week virtual training.

 
  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Apr 8, 2020 - 6:26pm

Citi Toronto has same situation but not a guaranteed full time offer . small teams in IB and CB . I think they give out 50% returns historically so just a bit unlucky

 
  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Apr 8, 2020 - 6:40pm

haven't heard about Calgary SA if they got the email or not, but I'm guessing they did if every city did. I'm thinking same scenario as Toronto where the possibility of getting a ft return is possible. I think with the current oil market, I think Citi will still take on a couple full time due to needing a pipeline to replace exiting bankers. expect a conversion rate similar to Toronto of like 50% , then again most groups have at most like 2 interns so it's not like they are cutting crazy amounts. it's possible they extend full time to all interns especially to having like 5 weeks to prove themselves which isn't much, especially if it's virtual , so idk

 
Apr 8, 2020 - 6:31pm

I would imagine that all other BB banks in the same "tier" as Citi (BAML, BarCap, CS), and same "tier" as Moelis (Evercore, PWP, PJT, Centerview, Lazard) will follow suit. To my knowledge, all these firms take on summers with enough spots for them to all come back if they perform well enough. This would assume that firms do not anticipate a full-time decrease in class size.

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  • Intern in IB - Ind
Apr 8, 2020 - 6:50pm

Why would it be impossible for the group with arguably the best deal flow on wall street? Also, I'm working in a different coverage group at GS that had 92% returns last summer so not sure whu you think it's impossible at all.

 
Apr 8, 2020 - 6:50pm

To my knowledge, GS/JPM/MS take on more summers than there are FT spots available - but I could be wrong.

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  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Apr 8, 2020 - 6:56pm

looks like chicago, toronto, houston and calgary are the only ones to not get direct full time conversions ... way to break my heart :(

anyone can comfirm??

 
  • Intern in IB-M&A
Apr 9, 2020 - 12:16pm

Chicago is "counted" under NY, per a friend in Chicago office. They did receive full-time offer.

 
Apr 8, 2020 - 10:32pm

sixshooter69:

exactly. some dumbass even thought getting "full pay" if the internship was cancelled was an option. there are plenty of companies already cutting their interns / cancelling their programs - just check LinkedIn. There hasn't been one company I've seen yet that is OfFerInG AuToMaTiC ReTuRn OfFErs

Now might be a good time to mention your terrible take^

As for your main point, ya if that is the mentality at Citi i guess thats fine...personally, however, don't think of the 99% as a relevant comp

 
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Apr 8, 2020 - 7:27pm

Damn kinda feel bad for the people going for FT 2021 recruiting. Practically no spots left potentially?

 
  • Intern in IB - Ind
Apr 8, 2020 - 7:29pm

How will this work for S&T - have you all even gone through desk placement yet?

Asking as an incoming SA at another BB.

 
  • Intern in S&T - Other
Apr 8, 2020 - 7:33pm

No, haven't gone through desk placement. It's rotational for the internship. Have also heard it's rotational full time, but I don't know if that's still true (don't think so).

 
  • Prospect in IB - Gen
Apr 8, 2020 - 7:34pm

Congrats fellas. Only thing I was worried about tbh and now its resolved. Time to get back to some good old pipe-laying and celebrate

 
  • Intern in IB - Gen
Apr 8, 2020 - 7:53pm

if anything this should be reassuring that banks plan to keep hiring

 
  • Intern in IB - CB
Apr 8, 2020 - 8:30pm

Why do you think banks don't ever convert 100% of their summer analyst class? 1. Some may not be as productive as others (they get axed). 2. Banks simply don't have enough room to bring on 100% of their summer analyst class for every single group. It costs a lot of money to pay every single one as FT employees.

So, it's a good question when asked about summer 2021. Banks are already to the max with analysts, so their is a chance conversion next year will be much lower. My take

 
  • Prospect in S&T - Equities
Apr 8, 2020 - 10:06pm

The impending recession will have a greater effect on SA 21 class sizes than this

 
Apr 8, 2020 - 8:29pm

Can anyone that has an offer explain what they mean by as long as you meet the minimum requirements of the abbreviated program? Also, How does this work do they give you a start date for your Full-Time position that corresponds to your graduation date?

 
  • Intern in Other
Apr 8, 2020 - 9:15pm

Can anyone shed some light on how virtual internships will look for S&T? Any color on the situation would be much appreciated.

 
Apr 8, 2020 - 9:43pm

Any thoughts on what rest of the BBs might do? Barclays, Credit Suisse etc.
Why would the bank do that rn? so they don't need to roll out FT recruiting in the fall?

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  • Intern in IB - CB
Apr 8, 2020 - 9:51pm

Most likely every BB will follow. If they don't, it's bad press for them since other shops are doing it and could hinder future recruiting classes. Banks are doing this because it's almost impossible to make cuts to a summer analyst class that is only in the office for 4 weeks (2 of which are training and orientation). It's not fair to give out 50% offer rate to a few stellar candidates who knew what they were doing before their stint in the summer even started. So, banks decided to assume the financial burden of converting 100% which doesn't give them bad press for future recruits, but will make it harder next summer practically everywhere to convert or lateral (nearly impossible). Every. Single. Bank. will be jammed pack to the max. Never seen anything like this before.

 
Apr 8, 2020 - 9:59pm

Its not necessary bad PR from adjusting the program though (as long as they don't just straight up cancel). There has to be a strategic/financial incentive, no? Banks would do what they gotta do esp in a crisis.

Array
 
Apr 11, 2020 - 2:11am

So are you saying that 2021 Graduates' future full time jobs would be heavily weighted towards their 2020 summer internships?
- Like, if you had a great summer internship company, you're set for a great Full Time job.
- But if you had a mediocre summer internship company, it's going to be very hard for you to re-recruit for a different Full Time job upon 2021 graduation, as all the great jobs are all jam packed with little turnover.

So essentially, the 2021 graduating classes' fate is sealed upon what type of internship they have in their 2020 summer

 
Apr 9, 2020 - 12:31am

I would be extremely cautious with this.

Clearly revenue has been diminishing due to COVID. Citi definitely needs a reduced headcount. Since the internship will probably be virtual (the way things look) Citi is going to lower their headcount on the job. Wouldn't be surprised to see cuts 3 months in. Anyone who appears to be bottom/mid bucket will see the door. And it will be very difficult to lateral somewhere else.

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Apr 9, 2020 - 10:35am

i fully agree. i'm surprised that more people haven't mentioned this. any bank that gives a guaranteed FT offer is just deferring cuts until later, in this case full time start + 5 months when things will most likely by normal and they can actually evaluate employee performance. for the first five months of full time, you are essentially the same cost to bank as an intern except for your signing bonus (which may or may not be a thing for 2020 summers)

 
Apr 11, 2020 - 2:01am

Lol....i bet none of them cares....at the end of the day, you all are a bunch of slaves working for a meager salary (a bread crumb that may be slightly bigger than what is received by many other college grads but still a bread crumb nonetheless).

 
Apr 9, 2020 - 1:20am

Rest assured monkey interns, many other (if not all) major banks will follow Moelis and Citi's steps here. They know that virtual interns are not on equal playing fields. E.g., if you are from a poorer background chances are your wifi is garbage and your house is smaller (less noise-free areas to work in). Or what about you get hospitalized by the virus and miss half of your 5 week internship? It's a HR/PR nightmare waiting to happen. And as much as the close-minded "experts" from the other thread (Goldmonkey Sachs ) might tell you otherwise, banks DO care about their perception. BB's have entire media relation departments...

It's better to hire everyone than only hire some and get your picks wrong. BUT beware. Signing and first-year bonuses will be lower in the future because of this. And expect the jump to associate or PE to be much more competitive.

 
Apr 9, 2020 - 1:32am

Why would you think the jump to PE to be more competitive? I don't see why Citi would just fire mediocre employees 3 months in. colleges can't say much because the bank could literally use any excuse at that point. Basically what I'm trying to say is the analysts class at the end of 2 years will be the same size or lower as other years.

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