Middle Market Investment Banks

ihatetaxes's picture
Rank: Baboon | 138

Let me start off by saying: this thread is not for rankings! I completely agree with WSO comments that "rankings" are arbitrary. However, there has been a tremendous reshuffling since 2008, and I'm asking for help categorizing investment banks (in U.S.). In particular, middle market and boutique investment banks. I'm looking for guidance from everyone (BB, MM, and boutiques), not a bashing that one investment bank is better than another.

A majority will agree that the Bulge Bracket's are:
Bank of America/Merrill Lynch
Barclays Capital
Citi
Credit Suisse
Deutsche Bank
Goldman Sachs
JPMorgan
Morgan Stanley
UBS

What about Middle Markets?
What about Boutiques?

a) Well Fargo/Wachovia (not sure if they are top MM or bottom BB?)
b) RBC Capital Markets (I know BB in Canada, but are they considered top MM in U.S?)
c) RBS (no clue where they stand anymore)
d) BNP Paribas
e) ABN AMRO
f) HSBC
g) Jefferies (once considered boutique, where do they stand now? Lower or top MM?)
h) Evercore Partners
i) Greenhill & Co.
j) Rothschild
k) Lazard
l) Houlihan Lokey
m) Harris Williams
n) William Blair
o) Robert W. Baird
p) Moelis & Co.
q) Piper Jaffray
r) Broadpoint Gleacher
s) Thomas Weasel
t) Imperial Capital

List them or put MM/ boutique next to the letter. Thank you. (If I forgot any important names, sorry)

Comments (115)

Feb 11, 2010

Let the war begin!

OP, I don't think many people will agree with UBS being BB anymore. Middle Market is anything below BB. Boutique tends to be fairly small or regional. This topic has been beat into the ground.

Feb 11, 2010

Wells Fargo is a lesser BB. RBS is now owns Citizens so I would also rank them as BB, but not some investment banking power house.

Feb 11, 2010

looks like pretty much all of those are described as MM except for:
lazard
greenhill
gleacher
moelis
evercore

edit: yeah, yo ushould just use the search option for this, like the guy above said

Feb 11, 2010

Try again -- Rothschild is most definitely not MM.

    • 1
Feb 11, 2010

I'm pretty sure Wells Fargo is not Middle Market, though they have a middle market group.

"Wells Fargo's average deal size has historically been around $1 billion. "

http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp...
Wells Fargo is also 7th for 3Q and 12th for 4Q M&A for United States, both times above CS and UBS; along with top 10 in debt/equity and levfin.

Most would say its a bottom BB for United States only, since it has almost 0 international presence.

Learn More

7,548 questions across 469 investment banks. The WSO Investment Banking Interview Prep Course has everything you'll ever need to start your career on Wall Street. Technical, Behavioral and Networking Courses + 2 Bonus Modules. Learn more.

Feb 11, 2010

AnthonyD1982, didn't mean to start an all out war. I combed over the WSO forums, and still found there was no consensus for MM as there was for BB. In addition, many firms have changed in just the past year alone (UBS, WF, RBC, RBS, Jefferies). I look forward to what the street has to say.

Feb 11, 2010
  1. WF is BB, as is UBS.
  2. RBS is not MM but not BB.
  3. RBC is MM, but not in Canada.
  4. Jefferies is MM, but not its healthcare.

I hope I cleared some stuff up.

Feb 11, 2010

boutiquebank4life, Thank you.

Feb 11, 2010

anthony deserves a star, ubs is definitely not bb anymore, they do crappy 200 mil deals and are horrible culture with people being fired and entire groups leaving. crumbling ship.

Feb 11, 2010

I'm amazed that this thread has been open for almost an hour and the trolls haven't chimed in with the PJ hate.

Feb 11, 2010
hungry:

I'm amazed that this thread has been open for almost an hour and the trolls haven't chimed in with the PJ hate.

Don't jinx it.

OP, no problem and I see your point, I think this board could continue forever and we would never come to a consensus on which banks are MM/Boutique/BB except for a few exceptions. I think the landscape will change in 3-5 years as government regulation sets in and reorganizations are completed.

Feb 11, 2010

AnthonyD1982, Completely agree. The investment banking landscape is dynamic and will continue to change in the next 24-36 months.

I have seen the WSO forums saying WF>RBC>RBS, AND the debate between RBC and Citi, AND how much Jefferies has expanded in the past year. I guess I'm trying to figure out (from a BB employee perspective), if an individual wasn't able to secure a BB FT offer, what's the next best alternative (top ~7 firms after BB)? Your input would be greatly appreciated.

Feb 11, 2010

Wells is a solid bank, just wasn't a huge IB presence. This will probably change now with the Wachovia acquisition. RBS is going through issues since it is a UK based bank. RBC is MMKT, but strong presence in Canada.

If you don't get a BB go for MM or anything IB that you can get. You can always put in a couple years solid experience and then transition to something larger, etc. If you go smaller make sure to use your time building a networking and keeping current.

Feb 11, 2010

I think you should go where you are happy. I am probably taking my ubs offer for internship but a friend of mine is turning it down for a lesser known bank. Its about you and your preferences.

Anthony: Would you agree UBS is still BB in asia though even if not in US?

Feb 11, 2010
fembotma:

I think you should go where you are happy. I am probably taking my ubs offer for internship but a friend of mine is turning it down for a lesser known bank. Its about you and your preferences.

Anthony: Would you agree UBS is still BB in asia though even if not in US?

I think UBS is fine. They have a lot of bad press going on, but who cares. If you have a choice between JPM and UBS I would pick JPM, but everyone freaks out as if working for UBS is the kiss of death. It isn't as if anyone is being recruited to be the CEO and would sustain reputation risk.

I think UBS in Asia is fine, but I don't work in IB so my opinion has no real weight behind it.

Feb 11, 2010

sagent - mm or lower tier boutique depending on how you look at it

brown brothers harriman( probably spelled it wrong)

Feb 11, 2010

UBS is probably still consider a BB in Asia, they're one of the few with some significant presence in China.

-ABN AMRO? I thought they've been bought out by RBS
-How about the other Canadian shops? TD, BMO, Scotia? not all that big in US, MM?
-Big four's advisory group? Deloitte FAS, KPMG corporate finance? Not exactly sure about their deal flow and presence in US, I believe I saw KPMG actually cracking the league table once

Feb 11, 2010

I think the only canadian shop with a U.S. presence is RBC, and it is purely middle market.

Big 4 does not apply here. TAS is not considered traditional IBD.

Feb 11, 2010

Thats incorrect, TD Securities hire people for IB and trading into their NY office, so they do have a "presence", its just a matter of how big.

Im talking about Big 4's corporate finance, not TAS, as far i know, art of FAS and KPMG'S coprorate finance do conduct in real MM work, not just the DD

Feb 11, 2010
J15:

Thats incorrect, TD Securities hire people for IB and trading into their NY office, so they do have a "presence", its just a matter of how big.

Im talking about Big 4's corporate finance, not TAS, as far i know, art of FAS and KPMG'S coprorate finance do conduct in real MM work, not just the DD

Even Scotia has people in NY but the fact is that RBC is the only Canadian bank that sources and leads deals in the U.S. from its NY office. Or, to put it this way: You wouldn't really want to work as a junior-level employee for Scotia NY or TD NY.

Feb 11, 2010

BMO Capital Markets has a definite presence in the US, too, as a top MM. They're based out of Chicago (healthcare is in NY+Boston, and I think their energy is in Houston).

Feb 11, 2010

Big 4 has both TAS and corp fin departments (traditional IBD). Deloitte Corp Fin actually has a pretty strong presence in the MM and typically ranks ~25 in vault (even though that means absolutely nothing).

Feb 11, 2010

yea what he said lol

Feb 11, 2010

they have a presence, yes, but "top" mm is definitely a bit of a stretch for bmo.

Feb 11, 2010

I would have to agree with brisbane and twilightgirl. I had a FT IBD (NY) Superday interview with BMO CM and it was not what I expected for a "top" MM. Great culture though.

Feb 11, 2010

^^^Ditto. They have a strong MM corporate lending presence in Chicago, but they are not a big player in the MM out of NY. They pay like they're top, though.

And yes, I have heard good things about the culture. One of my friends had a superday with them and liked the people a lot, although he didn't accept the offer.

Feb 11, 2010

-BMO is good bank (especially in Canada) but they don't compare to RBC within the U.S. and I also heard they pay well for a MM

-Despite the press and financial results, UBS should be considered a BB bank especially if people are considering WF a lower BB (don't see much on high profile M&A deals but have solid foundation on doing debt financing - mainly because they are a large commercial bank and can leverage their balance sheet), I personally don't see them as a BB but that is my own personal opinion and from what I have seen and heard on the street. People on WSO seem to be in favor of them recently because they are hiring a lot of undergrads (FT and SA) since they did not recruit last summer

-Rothschild had a great year in regards to U.S. M&A volume so I'm not sure where they are at on the list

Feb 11, 2010

I think both WF and UBS are both BB's, they do the same deals together with other BB's and are ranked around the same.

What do you guys think about Macquarie? Are they australian only? What are interviews like?

Feb 11, 2010

Isn't Rothschild European mostly? I've never seen any deals they do in U.S.

Feb 11, 2010

fembotma: Just curious , what large deals have you seen WF on with other BB for it be ranked around the same as UBS (UBS has been on a number of high profile deals - NBC/Comcast to just name one despite their bad rep) and I do believe that UBS is ranked within the top 10.

Also, Macquarie has a U.S. presence/have significantly grown in the past few years - i know a few interns from last summer and they seem to enjoy it there. From what I have heard, they seem to be having a huge push to expand outside of their Australian market. Prob a good place to be down the road. Do you have an interview with them?

boutiquebank4life: Yes you are right, Rothschild is mostly European and I know they ranked quite high for global M&A but I swore I saw them high on U.S. as well, but I can be wrong.

Feb 11, 2010
fembotma:

What do you guys think about Macquarie? Are they australian only? What are interviews like?

My 1st round FT IBD (U.S.) went awful. I really wanted to knock the interview out of the park, but it didn't happen. It was a phone interview and the VP/MD woman had such a thick Australian accent I could barely hear the question through my cell phone. They also had me on speaker phone, which echoed everything.

Other than that, I only screwed up on 1 question.
VP/MD - "So, can you tell me some deals Macquarie has been on?"
Me - "Nope"

I knew I screwed up. My advice, landline phone and get to a Bloomberg terminal.

Feb 11, 2010

hahahaha, sorry man, better luck next time. My friend said the same thing about the accent and echoing in the phone when he interviewed there

Feb 11, 2010
IB1789:

hahahaha, sorry man, better luck next time. My friend said the same thing about the accent and echoing in the phone when he interviewed there

same thing happened to me too. the lady was the head HR lady btw- but yes, super echo-ey phone connection and thick aussie accent made for an awkward interview.

as for recent deals- just mention how they've worked alongside their infrastructure fund in acquiring the chicago/indiana tollroads

Feb 11, 2010

How about citi?

Feb 11, 2010

IB1789: JPM/WF did the Berkshire $8 billion in order for them to buy Burlington http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-02-04/berksh...
Recent ones: http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9D5P... http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=9729343, http://www.marketwatch.com/story/americredit-annou...

Ones I don't have links for are Sprint/Virgin, Blackstone acquiring DJO 1.6 bil, Walmart, Timewarner 9+ bil, Morton's LBO, etc.

Both banks are great and are usually top 10 to top 15 in M&A.

Feb 11, 2010

Comrise: I did not question if WF does a lot of debt financing work cause I know they do a lot. The conversation before was referring to being financial advisers on M&A deals (I am aware of the ones you mentioned). In summary, WF is a great bank and it will continue to grow and should be a great place down the road.

Feb 11, 2010

"3. What is the difference in angles between the hour and second hand on a clock at a quarter past 3."

Isn't this a S&T question? I think this thread is about investment banking and I doubt they ask brainteasers or math problems for IBD.

Feb 11, 2010

boutique bank, do you work in the industry or have you even done a single banking interview? i've been asked that exact question multiple times, including at bb's. if you dont have knowledge on a subject, dont try to give advice, and especially dont try to contradict someone who's fucking stating the questions he got in an actual interview.

Feb 11, 2010

I work at a boutique, before that I worked in non-IBD so no I didn't get the traditional BB interviews. I do have friends though who all got 3 financial statements, depreciation, and other such technical questions without these angle questions.

I'm not questioning him getting those questions, I'm asking if they are for S&T. Chill out.

Feb 11, 2010

OK, OK Lets get back on track. A new forum was just posted on RBC Capital Markets. Since there has been some discussion on Canadian Banks, I do have some questions

1) What are the "best" groups at RBC ? My guess: Industry - Mining and Metal b/c it's a Canadian Bank, Product - No clue, maybe M&A

2) RBC CM website doesn't seem to have a DCM group. They do have a High Yield Capital Markets group. Is this their LevFin group? If so, then what's their LevFin group (see links below). I'm just trying to separate their DCM (average investment grade stuff) from their High Yield. Can someone checkout the links and provide some thoughts?
https://www.rbccm.com/highyieldcapitalmarkets/cid-... https://www.rbccm.com/syndicatedfinance/cid-206915...

On a different note, what are total size and best groups at the following: Evercore Partners, Broadpoint Gleacher, and Imperial Capital.

Feb 11, 2010

haha, I can just feel the stress of interviewing from the last few comments. But to backup twilightgirl, IBD do ask brainteasers, math problems, etc. to interviewees (mostly toward non-target kids though). However, most of the brainteasers can be answered if you do some researching online, reading vault and WSO guides. Words of wisdom, spend more time on tech and behavioral questions, because there is a greater chance that they won't even cover brainteasers.

Good luck with interviews everybody!

Feb 12, 2010

What about Nomura? Doesn't it even qualify amongst the MM?

Feb 12, 2010

ubs is the worst mm on here, having worked there I can tell you the exit ops are horrendous now

Feb 16, 2010
fubs:

ubs is the worst mm on here, having worked there I can tell you the exit ops are horrendous now

FUBS, you obviously got FIRED and tossed out on your ass (or got rejected before they even let you in the door) so of course you think getting tossed out on your ass is a horrible exit oppty

I'd say the exit oppt'ys are the exact same as at GS, MS, etc as so long as you have one of those banks on your resume and you have deal experience, the same firms will interview you ... then if you are a bad ass they will hire you; if you are a dumb ass like yourself, they wont

Period.

Nothing personal, but you are a TROLL and the type that we are trying to extinguish from this site.

Anyone with ME ... like UBS or not, which I could care less about.

Better watch your ass

Feb 12, 2010

I know there has been a brief discussion on this before, but what are your guys' thoughts on Keybanc Capital Markets? Does anyone have any idea on their comp (especially year end bonuses for analysts), culture, exit opps etc? This is assuming you are in one of the traditional IB groups like M&A, Private Placements or an industry focused group.

Feb 12, 2010

Keybanc is very middle market, and capital markets gets a bad rep here. I would look for a boutique first.

Feb 12, 2010

Anyone who thinks UBS is a MM is a Moron, they are still BB guys, believe me

Better watch your ass

Feb 12, 2010

I agree, UBS is definitely still BB, people love to rip on them now cause they are in the same boat as Citi.

krishsuraj: in regards to Nomura, they are definitely working hard to expand in the U.S. and globally, especially picking up Lehman's asian operations. So they are prob a good bank to look out for down the road. Do you have an interview there?

BTW: what are people's thought on Harris Williams. I have one buddy there and it seems that they are quite busy and a good percentage of deals they pitch turn live. But I also heard that they service the lower MM in order to maintain their momentum of live deals

Feb 12, 2010

That's quite interesting to see that some companies are considered as BB, while others are bashed in the US while it's completely different in Europe. For instance, in the UK/France/Switzeland UBS is no longer seen as a BB, their results are poor and they keep on axing jobs. Someone working in M&A for UBS told me a few day ago that we should not mix what it used to be (UBS LA or UBS London) with what it currently is.

Nobody talked about HSBC, how are they considered in the US? Because their deal flow is pretty low in Europe.

By the way, if someone is interested in a list of European MM and boutiques, do not hesitate to send me a PM.

Feb 12, 2010

^^ Camondo, what??? If anything I would think they are much stronger in Europen than the US. In league tables they rank #5, #6 or higher in Europe and thats definietely BB stuff. They just posted first quaterly profit since a over a year and the new CEO is the guy who turned around CS.

And on the 'UBS is in the same boat as Citi' - well, no. The Swiss government sucked in $50B of crappy mortgages without saying a word, no strings attached. The Swiss just don't care, theyre rich.

Feb 12, 2010

I had a look to the League Tables and you're right for their current ranking in Europe. Perhaps, it was even better before, dunno. But I apologize for this mistake or misinterpretation of what my friend told me.

Feb 12, 2010

I worked for ubs, they are ok in europe, better in asia. But they are definitely not bb like Anthony said in the US anymore. They do crap deals and ranked always 13-15 in leagues in US. I can't believe losing healthcare that was stupid and all my friends trying toleave, no exit ops.

Feb 15, 2010

First lets be sure we are not looking at this from an M&A point of view - sure that is the sexy product but most of the revenues come from the other products

In addition - if you are talking US vs. world there are two different answers.... an example is Rothschild - they have a great brand here in the US and do a good number of deals - but in Europe one could argue they are a better brand than Goldman

These are all BB

Bank of America/Merrill Lynch
Barclays Capital
Citi
Credit Suisse
Deutsche Bank
Goldman Sachs
JPMorgan
Morgan Stanley
UBS - I see arguement for this but come on - they lost their HC group but they are still strong globally - they are on the Cadbury deal, Porsche/VW, almost EVERY bank financing.... def still BB

What about Middle Markets?
What about Boutiques?

a) Well Fargo/Wachovia (not sure if they are top MM or bottom BB?) - Wachovia helps and they are probably more BB due to pure size and balance sheet but they will not get the deals (or at least be lead left) that the other guys will for some time

b) RBC Capital Markets (I know BB in Canada, but are they considered top MM in U.S?) - They have a quality energy group (probably directly related to being a Canadian bank) - other than that I would say mostly MM

c) RBS (no clue where they stand anymore) - scary place to be - they are currently making investments in traditional banking, mercahnt acquiring, things like this... They were on a couple of auto deals but they are never really lead book runner - So i would say MM

d) BNP Paribas - making a BIG push into S&T - would still call them a MM player

e) ABN AMRO - acquired by RBS

f) HSBC - MM - against focus is on traditional banking

g) Jefferies (once considered boutique, where do they stand now? Lower or top MM?) - BB for healthcare - no doubt there - they have closed a sick amount of deals since Lorello and team showed up - building a strong Media group but I would say MM (other than the HC group which is prob top 3 on the street)... as an aside - i think by marketcap they are now the largest pure play Ibank in the US correct?

h) Evercore Partners - they are on almost EVERY big deal lately.... MM right now but I would say (as per the discussion of dynamic firms above that they are one that will eventually be BB

i) Greenhill & Co. - See Evercore - not as many big deals but they are one to watch

j) Rothschild - Big Boy - I would say they are BB (definately are in Europe)

k) Lazard - MM but another bank that stands to grow significantly in this climate

l) Houlihan Lokey - great restructuring group - but that doesnt make you BB - def MM

m) Harris Williams - Go to their website - all they talk about is middle market - and they do own it - PNC's IBanking arm kills it by doing mostly sell side deals - Def MM

Those are the ones I think I can comment on

Hope that helps!

    • 1
    • 1
Feb 15, 2010

Ummm Evercore, Lazard and GHL are "elite" boutiques that most people would take over any BB except GS/MS.

Feb 15, 2010

^agreed. nucci i think most would agree with your 9BBs, but I think you are misunderstanding what middle market is. sure, lazard/gh/evercore complete a substantial quantity of mm deals but they also compete for the biggest deals. jefferies (outside of hc), hlhz, and harris williams are mm as they never compete for the largest transactions

Feb 15, 2010

May be a stupid question, and I apologize if it is...

But what is the difference between an 'elite' boutique and a BB (if they arent MM as stated above)..

From what I thought, BB > MM > elite Boutique > Boutique..... but from what it seems: elite boutique > MM... so why are they not considered BB??

Just looking to clarify.

Feb 15, 2010

Great post nucci3220.

Feb 16, 2010

"I'd say the exit oppt'ys are the exact same as at GS, MS, etc as so long as you have one of those banks on your resume and you have deal experience, the same firms will interview you ... then if you are a bad ass they will hire you; if you are a dumb ass like yourself, they wont"

UBS definitely doesn't have the same exit ops as GS/MS. Comparable, yes. But, certainly not the same. I think the general consensus is that there are two tiers of BBs with GS/MS (and possibly JPM) sitting on top and the rest occupying the lower tier. If we are talking megafund PE, it's pretty clear where they are gonna look first to recruit. It's not to say that UBS won't place well, but I'm sure everyone would agree that GS/MS is a much better place to be.

Feb 16, 2010

BB is easy. After that, it gets a little tricky. The investment banking landscape is (since 2008) and will continue to change in the next 24-36 months.

I have seen the WSO forums saying WF>RBC>RBS, AND the debate between RBC and Citi, AND how much Jefferies has expanded in the past year. I guess I'm trying to figure out (from a BB and MM employee perspective), if an individual wasn't able to secure a BB FT offer, what's the next best alternative (top ~7 firms after BB)? Your input would be greatly appreciated. Think UBS, WF, RBC, RBS, BNP, HSBC, Jefferies, Lazard, Evercore.

Feb 16, 2010

hungry, don't bother. i've advised many ubs people through my PM box and they know I'm legit. I worked there and it sucked. I don't need to respond to some slammaster troll who never had a job in banking. If you want to know the real deal about UBS just PM me. Look at their past placement. It is just as bad as MM banks. Go to Citi/DB/WF instead if you have the chance. i would even go to a few middle market shops over it.

Feb 16, 2010

ihatetaxes stop repeating the same post over and over. You should get an offer and look at your options after, which is what I did. Even if I end up going to UBS I'm going to b happy because not many students from my school even get to do banking and its only a summer internshpi, who knows I may end up in goldman or jpm for fulltime.

what people say on a forum doesn't affect my life and it shouldn't affect yours either. just do well and even if you are at a noname bank everyone with good experience and hard work can move to a better place or exit decently well, which is what all ex-bankers tell me who are more knowledgable than the trolls on this site.

also i hope you know Lazard, Evercore, WF, UBS are better than RBC, BNP, Jefferies, RBS, HSBC. especially lazard and evercore are a lot better than some of the top BB's even. I know a kid taking lazard over morgan stanley.

Feb 17, 2010

fembota, for once you actually make some fucking sense

for the fucking retards that think that the world is GS / MS, i hate to say i tbut you are just plain wrong

i'm not saying that there is not a better brand to those names for some purposes, but in terms of second year / third year exits, there is NO difference

and don't give me some bullshit like i don't know what I'm talking about, because if you are so moronic to actually think that KKR is going to turn down a kid form UBS to see a guy from GS, you are lost

what matters is you are at a firm that did deals, and that you worked on them

GS ain't that much better than UBS as an analyst

as an MD / Partner it is much different

but what makes an analyst or a third year opportunity is the man / woman behind the resume and when that person shows up for the interview (which you would BOTH get, believe me) the stronger banker will win the job EVERY time

people at KKR, Blackstone, etc, etc. laugh at mere GS or UBS bankers at all levels, trust me

Better watch your ass

May 10, 2011

Great discussion over here regarding the Middle Market Investment Banks and importance out towards the marketing and example you have provided regarding the Middle Market Investment Banks would be an awesome one..

May 11, 2011

For 2010 - U.S. Completed >500M by value (excluding BBs):

1.) Lazard
2.) Evercore
3.) Jefferies
4.) Blackstone
5.) Greenhill
6.) Tudor Pickering
7.) HLHZ
8.) PWP
9.) Centerview
10.) HSBC ... not sure if they are BB
11.) Allen & Co.
12.) Guggenheim
13.) Miller Buckfire
14.) RBC
15.) Rothschild

For 2010 - U.S. Completed 50M-500M by # of deals (excluding BBs): ... I was too lazy to re-order

1.) HLHZ
2.) Jeffereies
3.) Lazard
4.) KBW
5.) RBC
6.) Moelis
7.) William Blair
8.) Sandler O'Neil
9.) Raymond James
10.) Macquarie
11.) PNC
12.) Lincoln International
13.) Stifel
14.) Baird
15.) Tudor Pickering

May 4, 2013
PuppyBackedSecurities:

For 2010 - U.S. Completed >500M by value (excluding BBs):

1.) Lazard
2.) Evercore
3.) Jefferies
4.) Blackstone
5.) Greenhill
6.) Tudor Pickering
7.) HLHZ
8.) PWP
9.) Centerview
10.) HSBC ... not sure if they are BB
11.) Allen & Co.
12.) Guggenheim
13.) Miller Buckfire
14.) RBC
15.) Rothschild

For 2010 - U.S. Completed 50M-500M by # of deals (excluding BBs): ... I was too lazy to re-order

1.) HLHZ
2.) Jeffereies
3.) Lazard
4.) KBW
5.) RBC
6.) Moelis
7.) William Blair
8.) Sandler O'Neil
9.) Raymond James
10.) Macquarie
11.) PNC
12.) Lincoln International
13.) Stifel
14.) Baird
15.) Tudor Pickering

Didn't really read through this thread but you threw in a ton of elite boutiques in here..

May 4, 2013
black mamba22:
PuppyBackedSecurities:

For 2010 - U.S. Completed >500M by value (excluding BBs):

1.) Lazard
2.) Evercore
3.) Jefferies
4.) Blackstone
5.) Greenhill
6.) Tudor Pickering
7.) HLHZ
8.) PWP
9.) Centerview
10.) HSBC ... not sure if they are BB
11.) Allen & Co.
12.) Guggenheim
13.) Miller Buckfire
14.) RBC
15.) Rothschild

For 2010 - U.S. Completed 50M-500M by # of deals (excluding BBs): ... I was too lazy to re-order

1.) HLHZ
2.) Jeffereies
3.) Lazard
4.) KBW
5.) RBC
6.) Moelis
7.) William Blair
8.) Sandler O'Neil
9.) Raymond James
10.) Macquarie
11.) PNC
12.) Lincoln International
13.) Stifel
14.) Baird
15.) Tudor Pickering

Didn't really read through this thread but you threw in a ton of elite boutiques in here..

If you knew how to read, you would see it says "excludes BBs." I never said, nor was I intending, to exlude elite boutiques.

May 4, 2013

hey, thanks for this list, by chance is there a 2012 one?

May 5, 2013
jasper90:

hey, thanks for this list, by chance is there a 2012 one?

see link:
http://www.bloomberg.com/professional/files/2013/0...

    • 1
May 5, 2013

aww, thanks!

May 4, 2013

i would ignore the term "middle market" because it could mean anything. this is the way i would break down the investment bank universe:

-BBs
-elite boutiques: Blackstone, Lazard, Greenhill, PWP, Evercore, Centerview, Moelis (semi-elite)
-other major players: Jefferies, RBC, Wells Fargo, Houlihan (restructuring only)
-everything else: regional/mediocre boutiques, specialty firms, non-major IBDs of large foreign banks, etc.

this can change significantly depending on the market (rothschild = elite boutique in europe, nomura = BB in japan, etc.) but this is what the industry looks like in the US.

Sep 7, 2016

ABN AMRO and Houlihan are hard to break into

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

Sep 7, 2016

I'm going into MM IB outside NYC. Probably could have gone BB, but family situation dictated otherwise. Most of the people I know who aren't gunning for BB are looking to go somewhere else besides NYC, usually for family reasons. The rest couldn't land BB.

Sep 7, 2016

or for cost of living/lifestyle reasons. I have friends who work in charlotte, atlanta, texas for that reason.

Sep 7, 2016

what kind of banks do they work for in atlanta?

Sep 7, 2016

suntrust. i know ppl who did consulting there too

Sep 7, 2016

wtf is england & company

Sep 7, 2016

what do you guys think of mid-market groups in BB? i guess it's the latest trend..

Sep 7, 2016

well the margins are better

Sep 7, 2016

the work/life is better because there isn't a huge revenue machine to feed. Salary is comparable, and although there might be a discount on the bonus, its probably offset by cost of living. As long as the bank has a balance sheet with relationships to leverage, there ought to be enough work to stay busy. Theoretically.

Sep 7, 2016

From what I hear it's usually feast or famine. If there's a pitch / live deal you're going to be working on it all day & night because you don't have the resources that a BB does in order to do things quickly (i.e. research, other industry/product teams, India). If there's no pitches / live deals, which happens a lot, then you're playing minesweeper.

Sep 7, 2016

Jr summer?

Sep 7, 2016

a

Sep 7, 2016

So Raymond James?

Sep 7, 2016

So SunTrust ?

Sep 7, 2016
ogofnyc:

So SunTrust ?

Sep 7, 2016

b

Sep 7, 2016

Do you have any idea what you would be doing at Morgan Stanley IMD?

Sep 7, 2016

Researching and analyzing financial information relating to specific companies and investments;
creating reports and summaries from the analyzed financial data; conducting company and investment level
due diligence activities and developing financial models and investment committee materials; evaluating
existing investment portfolios and recommending changes in investment plans; and keeping up to date with
market developments, new investment products and all other areas that can affect the markets, such as
movements in the economies of relevant countries.

Sep 7, 2016

If you see yourself doing banking or PE long-term, I think the IB offer is your best bet. Obviously, MS looks nice on the resume, but the best preparation for IB/PE is banking. If you are more interested in doing IM/HF Portfolio Mgmt long-term, take the IMD offer.

Overall, I think the IB offer gives you more exit opps, considering SunTrust is a reputable firm in the south, so you will be able to exit to a regional MM PE shop or lateral to another bank on the east coast.

Sep 7, 2016

What do you want to do in the long run?

Sep 7, 2016

If you want to do IBD, obviously do the MM IBD...

Sep 7, 2016

.

Sep 7, 2016

If we're talking Jefferies, William Blair, Piper, Harris Williams, etc, this is the dumbest question of the year.

If we're talking one of those no-name "MM" banks, you'll have to clarify. I'd take a no-name boutique over shitty risk any day though.

    • 1
Sep 7, 2016
BTbanker:

If we're talking Jefferies, William Blair, Piper, Harris Williams, etc, this is the dumbest question of the year.

If we're talking one of those no-name "MM" banks, you'll have to clarify. I'd take a no-name boutique over shitty risk any day though.

What if it was something like BB ECM or DCM type roles instead of IB risk?

Sep 7, 2016

Fine, I'll just delete this then.

Sep 7, 2016

Thoughts?

Sep 7, 2016

How about Houlihan Lokey? It's a respectful MM firm, too and also, they have a Minneapolis office.

Sep 7, 2016

Porsche, I think I recall you asking a similar question about a year ago. Hopefully recruiting went well for you then and continues to go well. The reality is, you can't go wrong with either Harris Williams or Lazard Middle Market.

Harris Williams' Minneapolis office is still only a few years old and rather small. That said, the head of the office is the ex-head of M&A at Piper which leads me to believe that HW has stolen a lot of Piper's market share over the last couple years. Great name and great place to work, but you'll be fighting for only 1 or 2 spots.

Lazard Middle Market obviously bears the name "Lazard," but given that it was not a homegrown operation, I think many still see it as Goldsmith so you won't have the same exit ops as you would under the "true" Lazard name. Still, it would be a good experience and I would place them near the top of my list (in MN).

Sep 7, 2016

agree, hw and goldsmith are solid places to start a career in the mm. piper has fallen off (hw taking their former head of m&a says something about that).

im not too sure about houlihan in the minn office. as a whole, the firm is respected and has a great presence in the mm, but ive heard its quite a chop shop.

Sep 7, 2016

the houlihan ceo is in minneapolis

Sep 7, 2016

Pretty sure HLHZ is based in So. California.... a far cry from Minneapolis

Sep 7, 2016

One is based in LA and the other in Minneapolis

Sep 7, 2016

wannabemonkee - i didn't say HL was based in minneapolis. i just said that the ceo was (well co-ceo to be exact). werbalowsky is in minneapolis.

Sep 7, 2016
Comment
Sep 7, 2016
Sep 7, 2016
Sep 7, 2016