6/7/06

What kind of grades, extracurricular activities, and general knowledge are needed to get into investment banking (analyst position)? Kids with degrees in History are landing positions in investment banking these days! What's up with that?

Comments (182)

6/1/06

showing leadership can never hurt, and genuine interest in finance and i-Banking...they will look and see, is he in the i-Banking club on campus? grades vary...obviously helps to have higher grades, but if you have some connections you could still land a job witha 2.8 (that's the way the world works). No connections, i would say below a 3.5 puts you at a disadvantage, but it also depends what school you go to and what your major is...if you went to Wharton and got a 3.3, that is obviously much better than a 4.0 at some Community college.

general knowledge: basic understanding of how valuation is done: commparable analysis, comparable transactions and Discounted Cash Flow . how to build a basic 3 statement model (this is not essential, but wouldn't hurt to have some Excel and PPt skills)

Also, you must seem VERY enthusistic and excited to work long hours -- you have to get across that you know the hours are brutal, but you don't mind because you'd be learning so much. yadda yadda yadda...

Investment Banking Interview Course

6/1/06

I can give you my perspective on the European I-Banking. Grades do definitly matter, as they are proof of the quality of work and commitment you might bring to the bank. It does differentiate you from the crop, as they are looking for the best candidate. This is the main thing you have to bear in mind; your profile is not in absolute terms but in competition with other candidates. So you have to stand out: leadership and genuine interest in finance, as mentioned by an earlier respondant, is what makes you different. You must head some kind of club on your campus, maybe have done some kind of charity work, and know what capital markets is all about.

6/6/06

I think I read somewhere in this forum that they look at your SAT scores. Is this true?

6/6/06

many banks ask for SAT scores at the analyst level and GMAT scores at the associate level.

6/6/06

I have a decent SAT score. Im willing to retake it if it will help me get an ibanking job. Is it worth it tho?

6/9/06

that would be a complete waste of time. it has very minimal baring on your chances of consideration. instead, focus on everything mentioned above: getting good grades (especially in your finance/accounting/econ classes) and taking on leadership positions.

basically, try to be well rounded in your college career and - this is extremely important and, oftentimes, underemphasized - be articulate, intelligent and sociable during the interview. these abilities come with practice for some and naturally for others. if you don't feel like you're naturally a skilled at selling yourself, then practice. if you can't be good at it, then i suggest you go into something other than ibanking.

I have a friend whose resume is extremely strong, garnering interviews with 7 bulge brackets, but can't seem to get through the final rounds mainly because he can't pitch himself as well as those he's competing with.

your resume is what's going to get you the interview. your ability to pitch yourself is what is going to get you hired.

  •  6/10/06

thx for the advice...well put

6/12/06

i second that comment. nobody wants to work with a tool. banks typically want someone who presents well and is social. ultimately the work isn't that hard and you want to enjoy who you work with. the club football player with a 3.5 gpa can probably do a one page lbo just as well as a 3.95 squirrel who reorganizes his bookshelf in his spare time

6/11/06

When I'm taking the first pass at incoming analyst resumes I put them in the following buckets:

Top Tier: Strong GPA (GPA>=3.7) and Strong Experience. Experience can be summers at a top bank, consulting, or college athlete.

Second Tier: Medium GPA and strong to respectable experience.

Third Tier: Strong GPA and no work experience or low GPA and strong work experience.

Basically, if you don't have either a strong GPA or strong experience, you're out of luck.

  •  6/12/06

A friend of mine and I would like to get into Ibanking but we're both Mechanical Engineering majors at a tough school with one year left and less than impressive GPA's (2.8-ish). Do you think we'd get more consideration because of the harder major?

6/12/06

sorry not likely, even if you're at mit and caltech. we'd only consider you w/o finance experience if you had a high high gpa. otherwise, ask yourself this, why would we consider you? a 3.3 finance major at wharton isn't so impressive either but would probably be easier to justify

6/13/06

It all depends on what school you go to. I'm from a non-target school and it took a reasonable resume and EXCELLENT knowledge and presentation in the interview. If you have a brand name school behind you, it will only take a reasonable resume and good social skills, as mentioned above. The most important part is convincing them that you want to work 100 hours per week. They know how much it sucks and they don't want you having a breakdown (which can happen to the best of us after an unexpected 24 hour workday).

If you were born in 1987, as your name suggests, you have some time to prepare. Grades, leadership, and finance interest are key. Know the recent M&A deals. Also, don't freak out over Sophomore internships. I had a BS one and I still got in on grades, finance knowledge, and a handshake.

6/18/06

I'm going to be a senior in College (University of Illinois), and I really want to make it in the Banking arena. I don't have the strongest GPA (3.2), but I'm a double major (Finance & Economics), heavily involved in school activities, and I have some pretty good work experiences. I have worked at Merill Lynch in the Global Private Client Division, and currently work at Morgan Stanley in the Financial Controller Group in New York. Is this enough to garner an interview?

6/19/06

UIUC is a good school, but because u're already in NYC at MS doing a summer internship, this should help your case. you should network your butt off at MS and try to see if they offer mobility programs that let you interview with the banking division for a full-time offer. i know of people at GS who worked in the controller group as sophomores and networked that into a banking internship for their junior year.

ask around, talk to as many people as you can. you have a great opportunity there in NYC at MS!

6/27/06

I want to get into a ib summer program for next year and I want to know what my chances of getting in are or what I need to do. I don't go to a top tier school, but my school(University of North Florida) was rated in Princeton's review as 5th place for "America's Best Value Colleges." My gpa is decent, but I am a rising junior and have time to raise it. This summer I am interning at Merrill Lynch as a Global Market and Investment Banking Services intern. The manager has already told me that ifI want I can stay as a limited hour employee. If I stay there I will have 2 years of experience before I graduate. I volunteer on the side. I have taken online classes at Merrill Lynch University where I have got excellent grades. I also worked for a real estate brokerage firm but had to quit due to my intern hours with ML. I manage my own stock portfolio. I am thinking about applying to my school's student managed investment fund. . Also I was thinking about going up to visit Merrill Lynch's headquarters in NY. Would it be rude for me too e-mail some of the GMI recruiting people to see if they will see me when I am up there? Any advice on what I should do?

6/28/06

Should a college student be looking for internships the summer between his freshman/sophomore year?

6/29/06

Internship, high gpa, connections

5/23/07

I worked my butt off getting a freshman internship, and it's probably legitimate to have one, but i'm not too sure it'll affect your standing much come junior year or time for a FT.

8/9/07

Yeah I did too. I had a choice between doing PWM at a BB or M & A at a extremely small regional and chose the PWM. Both were not too shabby for a frosh. I eventually chose the PWM. Hope it was a good descision

5/24/07

junior year is of most importance..but interning fresh/soph year is definitely a plus....keep your grades up...great extra curricula and networking

Perfection breeds Perfection

"Perfection breeds Perfection"

5/24/07

iwibank: what internship did you get freshman year and how?

3/5/08

sssssss

Best Response
3/5/08

How to get into banking - and WSO myths... (Originally Posted: 12/03/2012)

You come from a non-target? Sucks to be you
You have a low GPA? Sucks to be you
You want a job in banking? Sucks to be you

I've been on this website for almost 6 years, and only recently re-started reading some of the posts. Most of them are pointless, but there is the odd post that will entertain me, and make me realise how bad you guys all have it. What really drives me nuts is the posts were people just exchange a lot of useless information and "inform" everyone wrongly.

So I will start with a few myths:

I messed up this question in an interview, I'll never get the job

When I interview people I like to ask the following question: "How do you hedge your gamma?"
When I ask it, I KNOW that you will not know how to answer it. The only reason I am doing this is to see your thought process and how you re-act under pressure. End of.

Should I were a suit with two or three buttons and a sock in the side pocket?

I don't care how you dress. I really don't, and nobody else does. If you are a student I don't expect you to come in tailored. Go to primark or some other cheap place, pick up a suit and a good white shirt and a tie; go even to a used shop to get it! Make sure the suit went through the tailor at the dry cleaner so he can make it look a bit better on you, and that should make it so that you don't look like a clown. You can get dressed for less than $200 including everything. That also goes with: should i wear my expensive watch? I don't care.

The hours are so bad, you are treated like shit, etc...

True. Not a myth. Sucks to be an analyst.

I come from a non target, I have a low GPA, I come from a target etc...

There is only one thing that works, and that is networking. At my old bank (think top BB), we would receive two books of 500 CVs each, that is the number of CVs that had made it through the HR screening out of 6000 to 10000 candidacies depending on the year. I can tell you that unless a kid made a genuine effort of reaching out to us, either on campus, or in some other way; there is a very low probability we will pick you from that book of CVs...
If you are not in that book, it probably does not matter either, if I like you and I see you made an effort to reach out to me, I will ask you to come in for an interview; formal or informal.

Will extra education, courses, the CFA etc... Help me?

Unless you are a chartered CFA holder, no.
MBA, no - only if you are at a top school, it will give you access to me at networking events and that is the only thing that matters.
Excel courses? What the fuck? NO!

Banking is still an extremely rewarding job, but that depends entirely on what you do and whether you are suited for it. Everything is not the same, and if you don't make it in banking. It's ok. I have friends on food stamp smoking dope all day long and they are loving it...

One last piece of advice:
I will take a candidate that shows confidence (NOT arrogance, an arrogant prick will be escorted out of the room after 2 minutes). Determination, not why they want that job, but to show me they want to succeed in life.
Also: don't crush my fingers when you shake my hands, grab the hands not the fingers numb nuts.

A final note I work in equities, but this is valid for the future bankers as well. Trust me, my friends in M&A, DCM, ECM etc... are the same bread I am made out of: human, and they don't like pricks...

3/5/08

Excellent points. Wish everyone read this before they start networking. A little effort goes a long way.

CNBC sucks

"This financial crisis is worse than a divorce. I've lost all my money, but the wife is still here." - Client after getting blown up

3/5/08

your reasoning that you like people to make the effort to reach out but you dont reward those who funnel effort into learning modelling or CFA L1 for example, doesn't correlate.

and yes, some people do not care what you dress like, but guess what, some people really do.

"After you work on Wall Street it's a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side." - David Tepper

3/5/08

Oreos:
your reasoning that you like people to make the effort to reach out but you dont reward those who funnel effort into learning modelling or CFA L1 for example, doesn't correlate.

and yes, some people do not care what you dress like, but guess what, some people really do.

"effort into learning modelling", I believe it is a useless effort, as you are going to learn all of that on the job, and pick up one year of modelling classes in two weeks of being under the pressure. If you have taken level I good for you, especially if you come from a non-business related background. I would be impressed if that was the case, true. Not if you did business as undergrad, as L1 is your 3-4 years of business undergrad in one exam...

"People care how you dress"
On that one - Please do not mislead people. What matters is who you are and that you know how to tie a tie, that's it. I don't need to see you in Gucci loafers and no need to worry about looking like a Ralph Lauren advert. If your suit does not look like it is 3 sizes too big for you, and you are not wearing clown shoes, that is all that matters. This is not an interview to become fashion director at Burberry's.

3/5/08

Disjoint:
Oreos:
your reasoning that you like people to make the effort to reach out but you dont reward those who funnel effort into learning modelling or CFA L1 for example, doesn't correlate.

and yes, some people do not care what you dress like, but guess what, some people really do.

"effort into learning modelling", I believe it is a useless effort, as you are going to learn all of that on the job, and pick up one year of modelling classes in two weeks of being under the pressure. If you have taken level I good for you, especially if you come from a non-business related background. I would be impressed if that was the case, true. Not if you did business as undergrad, as L1 is your 3-4 years of business undergrad in one exam...

"People care how you dress"
On that one - Please do not mislead people. What matters is who you are and that you know how to tie a tie, that's it. I don't need to see you in Gucci loafers and no need to worry about looking like a Ralph Lauren advert. If your suit does not look like it is 3 sizes too big for you, and you are not wearing clown shoes, that is all that matters. This is not an interview to become fashion director at Burberry's.

they were examples, not an exhaustive list....

i said "some" people (which is true), not all (which would have been false), ergo no misleading.

do pay attention.

"After you work on Wall Street it's a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side." - David Tepper

3/5/08

Disjoint:
Oreos:
your reasoning that you like people to make the effort to reach out but you dont reward those who funnel effort into learning modelling or CFA L1 for example, doesn't correlate.

and yes, some people do not care what you dress like, but guess what, some people really do.

"effort into learning modelling", I believe it is a useless effort, as you are going to learn all of that on the job, and pick up one year of modelling classes in two weeks of being under the pressure. If you have taken level I good for you, especially if you come from a non-business related background. I would be impressed if that was the case, true. Not if you did business as undergrad, as L1 is your 3-4 years of business undergrad in one exam...


OP maybe your post was meant to apply ONLY to the BB/top MM recruiting process, which is fine, just please clarify that b/c it's not the only way to get into the field. You seem to imply the only way to get into IB or high finance is through official fall/winter/whenever recruiting, either by getting your resume picked or networking your way into an interview.

There's lots of boutiques out there, and many of them DO want you to have solid technical knowledge, and maybe even pass a modeling test, because you won't be formally trained on the job like at your "top BB." This goes double for ER which doesn't have much training and often requires some kind of modeling or stock write-up case study during the interview process. Also, I've had HF guys ask me for case studies or samples of my work before. They wanted to help me, but wanted to see that I was pretty competent before they opened doors for me to the bankers and ER guys they knew.

3/5/08

Disjoint:

"effort into learning modelling", I believe it is a useless effort, as you are going to learn all of that on the job, and pick up one year of modelling classes in two weeks of being under the pressure. If you have taken level I good for you, especially if you come from a non-business related background. I would be impressed if that was the case, true. Not if you did business as undergrad, as L1 is your 3-4 years of business undergrad in one exam...

I disagree with this. Not everyone is great at learning on the go and under pressure.

In fact, I think it's a big risk to go into a job without any relevant modeling experience. It's an easy way to fall into a vicious cycle of making too many mistakes early on, then having superiors start to distrust your work, which leads to you losing confidence in yourself, which induces more mistakes.

Early in my career I was in this cycle. It was terrible and I was in a work environment with little support and patience for learning on the job. I was expected to get things done - and right - the first time around.

Needless to say, I eventually broke out of this vicious cycle, but it was only until I decided to learn financial modeling through a structured program. The damage, however, had been done and I never earned the respect and trust I was looking for from my teammates. By the end of my first year I couldn't stand it and was looking for a new job.

On the recruiting end, somebody who has some financial modeling under their belt signals to me that they are somewhat serious about their career move and should understand the day-to-day of the job entails. You definitely won't know everything, but you'll likely hit the learning curve much sooner. At least that's how I see it.

Capitalist

3/5/08

Oreos:

and yes, some people do not care what you dress like, but guess what, some people really do.


Agree with Oreos on this one, because I'm one of those people. It's a basic fact of life that if you dress well, not only will you get more pussy, you will be paid more.

Also, OP, are you in Dallas by any chance?

3/5/08

BTbanker:
Oreos:

and yes, some people do not care what you dress like, but guess what, some people really do.


Agree with Oreos on this one, because I'm one of those people.

Also, OP, are you in Dallas by any chance?

Not Dallas - but neither Soho London in marketing.
I repeat my point - it's not a fashion show, or maybe your place is BTbanker, but I didn't realise Wachovia still existed. A suit that is not 2x your size, no white socks, and other simple concepts that's all we ask of you.

3/5/08

Disjoint:
it's not a fashion show, or maybe your place is BTbanker, but I didn't realise Wachovia still existed.

+1, just for that quip.

Currently: clinical psychologist (in training)
Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)

3/5/08

Disjoint:
A suit that is not 2x your size, no white socks, and other simple concepts that's all we ask of you.

Shoot, I guess Michael Jackson would not have made the cut...

Seriously thou, this is a great post. I especially appreciate the part where you mention that if a kid takes the initiative to reach out to you then you will consider giving him a shot even thou he is not in the pre-screened HR book.

Too late for second-guessing Too late to go back to sleep.

3/5/08

BTbanker:

Also, OP, are you in Dallas by any chance?

Haha

3/5/08

BTbanker:
Oreos:

and yes, some people do not care what you dress like, but guess what, some people really do.


Agree with Oreos on this one, because I'm one of those people. It's a basic fact of life that if you dress well, not only will you get more pussy, you will be paid more.

Also, OP, are you in Dallas by any chance?


I think you're missing the point. Disjoint is saying all they have to do is be presentable. Namely, socks match suit, suit is not 3X oversize, etc. If someone came in for an interview for an Analyst position wearing an Hermes tie, $1,000 shoes, and a $10,000 watch, I think that would be more likely to hurt them than help them. People already know that the applicant hasn't accomplished anything, because they are just in college. People will just think he's a spoiled douche. I think that's all he's trying to get at.

I would think the average person reading this cares more about what someone in the industry thinks about this (like the OP) rather than someone who is not working in the industry (like you BTBanker). Maybe I'm wrong though, some students might prefer getting career advice from other college students.

3/5/08

SirTradesaLot:
BTbanker:
Oreos:

and yes, some people do not care what you dress like, but guess what, some people really do.


Agree with Oreos on this one, because I'm one of those people. It's a basic fact of life that if you dress well, not only will you get more pussy, you will be paid more.

Also, OP, are you in Dallas by any chance?


I think you're missing the point. Disjoint is saying all they have to do is be presentable. Namely, socks match suit, suit is not 3X oversize, etc. If someone came in for an interview for an Analyst position wearing an Hermes tie, $1,000 shoes, and a $10,000 watch, I think that would be more likely to hurt them than help them. People already know that the applicant hasn't accomplished anything, because they are just in college. People will just think he's a spoiled douche. I think that's all he's trying to get at.

I would think the average person reading this cares more about what someone in the industry thinks about this (like the OP) rather than someone who is not working in the industry (like you BTBanker). Maybe I'm wrong though, some students might prefer getting career advice from other college students.


reductio ad absurdum is a weak retort in this situation. the point is, you, STL, may not care, you may not give a shit about square capped shoes, but you aren't the whole market, your opinion may or may not be shared by the majority, but for you not to be able to place yourself in another's view point (caring about clothing greater than your outlook ) and to claim that people who don't share your view don't exist is quite immature.

"After you work on Wall Street it's a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side." - David Tepper

3/5/08

Oreos:
SirTradesaLot:
BTbanker:
Oreos:

and yes, some people do not care what you dress like, but guess what, some people really do.


Agree with Oreos on this one, because I'm one of those people. It's a basic fact of life that if you dress well, not only will you get more pussy, you will be paid more.

Also, OP, are you in Dallas by any chance?


I think you're missing the point. Disjoint is saying all they have to do is be presentable. Namely, socks match suit, suit is not 3X oversize, etc. If someone came in for an interview for an Analyst position wearing an Hermes tie, $1,000 shoes, and a $10,000 watch, I think that would be more likely to hurt them than help them. People already know that the applicant hasn't accomplished anything, because they are just in college. People will just think he's a spoiled douche. I think that's all he's trying to get at.

I would think the average person reading this cares more about what someone in the industry thinks about this (like the OP) rather than someone who is not working in the industry (like you BTBanker). Maybe I'm wrong though, some students might prefer getting career advice from other college students.


reductio ad absurdum is a weak retort in this situation. the point is, you, STL, may not care, you may not give a shit about square capped shoes, but you aren't the whole market, your opinion may or may not be shared by the majority, but for you not to be able to place yourself in another's view point (caring about clothing greater than your outlook ) and to claim that people who don't share your view don't exist is quite immature.

If a person wears a suit that fits, a white shirt, cheap but plain shoes, and a $30 tie, they will be fine. My claim is that most people would agree with me about college graduate recruiting who already work in the industry.

You think I'm immature because most people I know wouldn't judge a kid on their fashion (assuming what I said before about being presentable)? That is absurd, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Frankly, if a 35 year old guy was judging a 21 year old by how they were dressing (especially if it wasn't 'high fashion'), I would think that is pretty immature of them.

Since you seem to be so knowledgeable about this topic, what exactly are you expecting them to wear?

3/5/08

SirTradesaLot:
Oreos:
SirTradesaLot:
BTbanker:
Oreos:

and yes, some people do not care what you dress like, but guess what, some people really do.


Agree with Oreos on this one, because I'm one of those people. It's a basic fact of life that if you dress well, not only will you get more pussy, you will be paid more.

Also, OP, are you in Dallas by any chance?


I think you're missing the point. Disjoint is saying all they have to do is be presentable. Namely, socks match suit, suit is not 3X oversize, etc. If someone came in for an interview for an Analyst position wearing an Hermes tie, $1,000 shoes, and a $10,000 watch, I think that would be more likely to hurt them than help them. People already know that the applicant hasn't accomplished anything, because they are just in college. People will just think he's a spoiled douche. I think that's all he's trying to get at.

I would think the average person reading this cares more about what someone in the industry thinks about this (like the OP) rather than someone who is not working in the industry (like you BTBanker). Maybe I'm wrong though, some students might prefer getting career advice from other college students.


reductio ad absurdum is a weak retort in this situation. the point is, you, STL, may not care, you may not give a shit about square capped shoes, but you aren't the whole market, your opinion may or may not be shared by the majority, but for you not to be able to place yourself in another's view point (caring about clothing greater than your outlook ) and to claim that people who don't share your view don't exist is quite immature.

If a person wears a suit that fits, a white shirt, cheap but plain shoes, and a $30 tie, they will be fine. My claim is that most people would agree with me about college graduate recruiting who already work in the industry.

You think I'm immature because most people I know wouldn't judge a kid on their fashion (assuming what I said before about being presentable)? That is absurd, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Frankly, if a 35 year old guy was judging a 21 year old by how they were dressing (especially if it wasn't 'high fashion'), I would think that is pretty immature of them.

Since you seem to be so knowledgeable about this topic, what exactly are you expecting them to wear?


You're missing the point. I have no view towards fashion and it's not the act of judging people on fashion that I would deem immature, it's your lack of ability to empathise.

"After you work on Wall Street it's a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side." - David Tepper

3/5/08

Oreos:
SirTradesaLot:
Oreos:
SirTradesaLot:
BTbanker:
Oreos:

and yes, some people do not care what you dress like, but guess what, some people really do.


Agree with Oreos on this one, because I'm one of those people. It's a basic fact of life that if you dress well, not only will you get more pussy, you will be paid more.

Also, OP, are you in Dallas by any chance?


I think you're missing the point. Disjoint is saying all they have to do is be presentable. Namely, socks match suit, suit is not 3X oversize, etc. If someone came in for an interview for an Analyst position wearing an Hermes tie, $1,000 shoes, and a $10,000 watch, I think that would be more likely to hurt them than help them. People already know that the applicant hasn't accomplished anything, because they are just in college. People will just think he's a spoiled douche. I think that's all he's trying to get at.

I would think the average person reading this cares more about what someone in the industry thinks about this (like the OP) rather than someone who is not working in the industry (like you BTBanker). Maybe I'm wrong though, some students might prefer getting career advice from other college students.


reductio ad absurdum is a weak retort in this situation. the point is, you, STL, may not care, you may not give a shit about square capped shoes, but you aren't the whole market, your opinion may or may not be shared by the majority, but for you not to be able to place yourself in another's view point (caring about clothing greater than your outlook ) and to claim that people who don't share your view don't exist is quite immature.

If a person wears a suit that fits, a white shirt, cheap but plain shoes, and a $30 tie, they will be fine. My claim is that most people would agree with me about college graduate recruiting who already work in the industry.

You think I'm immature because most people I know wouldn't judge a kid on their fashion (assuming what I said before about being presentable)? That is absurd, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Frankly, if a 35 year old guy was judging a 21 year old by how they were dressing (especially if it wasn't 'high fashion'), I would think that is pretty immature of them.

Since you seem to be so knowledgeable about this topic, what exactly are you expecting them to wear?


You're missing the point. I have no view towards fashion and it's not the act of judging people on fashion that I would deem immature, it's your lack of ability to empathise.

It's not that I think nobody could, it's my experience that nobody does in practice (once again, assuming we're talking about college kids and they're presentable).
3/5/08

SirTradesaLot:
BTbanker:
Oreos:

and yes, some people do not care what you dress like, but guess what, some people really do.


Agree with Oreos on this one, because I'm one of those people. It's a basic fact of life that if you dress well, not only will you get more pussy, you will be paid more.

Also, OP, are you in Dallas by any chance?


I think you're missing the point. Disjoint is saying all they have to do is be presentable. Namely, socks match suit, suit is not 3X oversize, etc. If someone came in for an interview for an Analyst position wearing an Hermes tie, $1,000 shoes, and a $10,000 watch, I think that would be more likely to hurt them than help them. People already know that the applicant hasn't accomplished anything, because they are just in college. People will just think he's a spoiled douche. I think that's all he's trying to get at.

I would think the average person reading this cares more about what someone in the industry thinks about this (like the OP) rather than someone who is not working in the industry (like you BTBanker). Maybe I'm wrong though, some students might prefer getting career advice from other college students.

It doesn't take a fund manager to know square-toed shoes, three piece suits, three-button clown suits, white socks, dark shirts, colored handkerchiefs, and fake Rolexes are faux pas in the business professional setting. I never encouraged anyone on this site to wear $20k to an interview. You can look just as good with $700 if you know where to look. Also, you can spend $2,500 on a suit and still look like shit if it doesn't fit.

3/5/08

BTbanker:
SirTradesaLot:
BTbanker:
Oreos:

and yes, some people do not care what you dress like, but guess what, some people really do.


Agree with Oreos on this one, because I'm one of those people. It's a basic fact of life that if you dress well, not only will you get more pussy, you will be paid more.

Also, OP, are you in Dallas by any chance?


I think you're missing the point. Disjoint is saying all they have to do is be presentable. Namely, socks match suit, suit is not 3X oversize, etc. If someone came in for an interview for an Analyst position wearing an Hermes tie, $1,000 shoes, and a $10,000 watch, I think that would be more likely to hurt them than help them. People already know that the applicant hasn't accomplished anything, because they are just in college. People will just think he's a spoiled douche. I think that's all he's trying to get at.

I would think the average person reading this cares more about what someone in the industry thinks about this (like the OP) rather than someone who is not working in the industry (like you BTBanker). Maybe I'm wrong though, some students might prefer getting career advice from other college students.

It doesn't take a fund manager to know square-toed shoes, three piece suits, three-button clown suits, white socks, dark shirts, colored handkerchiefs, and fake Rolexes are faux pas in the business professional setting. I never encouraged anyone on this site to wear $20k to an interview. You can look just as good with $700 if you know where to look. Also, you can spend $2,500 on a suit and still look like shit if it doesn't fit.


Maybe we're just talking about the same thing in a different way. I'm reading what you guys are saying as the guy needs to be wearing name-brand expensive stuff and maybe that's not what you mean. White shirt, blue suit, black shoes and you're fine is what I'm saying. It doesn't need to be 'high-end'. Fuck, it could be from JC Penney, for all I care as long as it fits and I think very few people would disagree with that for Analyst interviews.
3/5/08

SirTradesaLot:
BTbanker:
Oreos:

and yes, some people do not care what you dress like, but guess what, some people really do.


Agree with Oreos on this one, because I'm one of those people. It's a basic fact of life that if you dress well, not only will you get more pussy, you will be paid more.

Also, OP, are you in Dallas by any chance?


I think you're missing the point. Disjoint is saying all they have to do is be presentable. Namely, socks match suit, suit is not 3X oversize, etc. If someone came in for an interview for an Analyst position wearing an Hermes tie, $1,000 shoes, and a $10,000 watch, I think that would be more likely to hurt them than help them. People already know that the applicant hasn't accomplished anything, because they are just in college. People will just think he's a spoiled douche. I think that's all he's trying to get at.

I would think the average person reading this cares more about what someone in the industry thinks about this (like the OP) rather than someone who is not working in the industry (like you BTBanker). Maybe I'm wrong though, some students might prefer getting career advice from other college students.

Amen to that, thanks for not being a muppet SirTradesaLot

3/5/08

BTbanker:
Oreos:

and yes, some people do not care what you dress like, but guess what, some people really do.


Agree with Oreos on this one, because I'm one of those people. It's a basic fact of life that if you dress well, not only will you get more pussy, you will be paid more.

Also, OP, are you in Dallas by any chance?

EQUITIES IN DALLAS!!! HE MUST BE GOOD!

3/5/08

Oreos:
your reasoning that you like people to make the effort to reach out but you dont reward those who funnel effort into learning modelling or CFA L1 for example, doesn't correlate.

and yes, some people do not care what you dress like, but guess what, some people really do.

I want to reduce the risk of wasting interviewers time. If they reached out, I can form an opinion on them, and generally avoid the "what were you thinking" candidates. If they didn't, I'm rolling the dice, and so need to see either approval from somebody else that I value (offer from competitor, aced finance course with the same hardass prof I had) or such I'm interesting resume I'm willing to take a chance to get to know more about the guy.

Dressing terribly for an interview might make you into "what were you thinking" candidate, so you want to avoid obvious missteps (bright socks, novelty/super skinny ties) when you talk to me.

3/5/08

Good stuff.

To the starving man, beans are caviar

3/5/08

Very nice, I like.

SB incoming.

This could be it, sweetheart.

3/5/08

Summed up the whole notion of WSO.

Death is certain; Life aint.

3/5/08

Thanks for the post and information.

I just wanted to note though that when I talk to people about the exact difference between arrogance confidence, they all seem to have different answers and it seems like drawing a line in the sand at the end of the day. But based on my personal experiences, arrogance and confidence is just based on if the guy likes you in the first place and aren't that different.

73 good sir!

3/5/08

kc2siq:
Thanks for the post and information.

I just wanted to note though that when I talk to people about the exact difference between arrogance confidence, they all seem to have different answers and it seems like drawing a line in the sand at the end of the day. But based on my personal experiences, arrogance and confidence is just based on if the guy likes you in the first place and aren't that different.

When interacting with people, you will most certainly pick up the vibe of a confident and/or arrogant person, eventhough people have a hard time making the distinction consciously.
Personally, arrogant people tend to transmit negative atmosphere to spectators.

Death is certain; Life aint.

3/5/08

Aldushy:
kc2siq:
Thanks for the post and information.

I just wanted to note though that when I talk to people about the exact difference between arrogance confidence, they all seem to have different answers and it seems like drawing a line in the sand at the end of the day. But based on my personal experiences, arrogance and confidence is just based on if the guy likes you in the first place and aren't that different.

When interacting with people, you will most certainly pick up the vibe of a confident and/or arrogant person, eventhough people have a hard time making the distinction consciously.
Personally, arrogant people tend to transmit negative atmosphere to spectators.


i think there's a big difference between confidence and arrogance. both may have a vibe about them that makes you notice them, but confident people don't look down on other people, and that respect shows i think.
3/5/08

kidflash:
Aldushy:
kc2siq:
Thanks for the post and information.

I just wanted to note though that when I talk to people about the exact difference between arrogance confidence, they all seem to have different answers and it seems like drawing a line in the sand at the end of the day. But based on my personal experiences, arrogance and confidence is just based on if the guy likes you in the first place and aren't that different.

When interacting with people, you will most certainly pick up the vibe of a confident and/or arrogant person, eventhough people have a hard time making the distinction consciously.
Personally, arrogant people tend to transmit negative atmosphere to spectators.


i think there's a big difference between confidence and arrogance. both may have a vibe about them that makes you notice them, but confident people don't look down on other people, and that respect shows i think.

Thanks for your insights! That's actually a great point about not looking down on others. Still, in this case, it's some of the more obvious cases and rare cases that end up with people exchanging stories over coffee of when they met this really peculiar asshat.

But to play devil's advocate, how about someone looking down on someone for a moral reason like a father leaving their child? Or looking down on someone who doesn't work hard at all and pulls the slack around? There are people who would argue that lacking the conviction to make a judgement and to just be nice to everyone shows a lack of confidence. I mean... if you believe someone who is truly scum as an equal then where does that place your self-opinion? Hell on WSO there are plenty of people who were looking down on the average American kid when there were threads about their math skills. Taking this a step further, aren't people who say others are arrogant (along with all the negative connotations) kind of looking down on others by giving them a negative character judgement?

Of course, one can give me examples that counter the description I made to make the distinction, but it really does get murky with most people since it just isn't that clear where the line is and we don't really remember most people just the extremes. Extreme examples stand up on our minds and makes it feel like it's so obvious. However, if you begin to ask people what their opinions are on some... say rappers' confidence/arrogance, you'll definitely get varying answers.

73 good sir!

3/5/08

OP, nice post. Thanks.

3/5/08

Wasn't there a thread on WSO where Bankerella (or someone else, I don't quite remember) was dinging kids for wearing bright pink shirts for the interview?

3/5/08

There are some douchbag bankers out there...
But yea generally they are nice people from my experience

3/5/08

I will add something to this (and good post OP). When you are at a networking event, an interview, anything interacting with people who might or might not choose to hire you, think about the questions you ask them. Nobody wants to answer "what is your outlook on the markets" "where do you see the xxx industry going" or the same shit that they talk about and answer every day at work. And nobody is going to be 'impressed' by these sorts of questions either. People like talking about themselves and their experiences- ask questions accordingly.

3/5/08

Nice post. Thank you

It's not about the money. It's about the game between people.

3/5/08

Good insight from the OP. As an old-time user in this site (joined in 2007, so that might as well be 1990), I would add two points:

1. About the OP - I agree that showing up to the interview dressed properly and not flashy or slovenly. The interviewer should remember you because of your energy, your insightful answers or train of thought (if you didn't get the answers right) not because of something superficial like how you were dressed.

2. Networking - Even though I look at resumes and conduct interviews in my group, I still get cold calls by folks in college. What I always tell them is to look at their school's alumni database and start emailing folks in specific companies. The people that want to be contacted tend to have the most updated profiles so take advantage of that.

Finally, this site is designed to help prospective monkeys and does that job well even though you get the occasional "Wear a Patek to work, yes or no?" or "I know everything about mezz lending because I've been at my group for 3 weeks" posts. If you're going to ask for help/insight/advice, make sure to get back to the people you PM. Sending a PM like "I have 10 questions about xyz" and not telling us whether or not you got the gig (or a simple "thank you") is poor form.

3/5/08

Great post, so true about the networking point. Doesn't matter from which school you graduate, all about how much effort you put into building your professional network.

3/5/08

Delete

3/5/08

There is a difference between where, were and wear...#JustSaying - But you speak the truth.

One addition, networking is great and works well but for conglomerates e.g. HSBC it's tough to network with the right person so make sure your networking is very well targeted: find that right person!

Founder of GirlBankerDotCom, Author of To Become an Investment Banker

Investment Banking Interview Course

3/5/08

"took a few finance classes in college" - so why investment banking? why not any a corporate finance role, Asset Management, etc? I ask this because it's something you're going to get asked.

There are plenty of opportunities for engineering majors, but you're a little late to the game in terms of analyst recruiting. Are you currently working in an engineering role? I'd reach out to any friends or alumni in banking and getting their opinion. Your chances are much better at a smaller MM bank than a BB.

You might consider working for a few years, getting your MBA, and then trying to break in as a post-MBA associate. It's a pretty common route.

3/5/08

The CFA's not generally that useful in traditional investment banking. I've known some ECM groups (which belongs to IBD in many banks) who valued CFAs. It's a requisite in equity research.

And yes, the entry points for investment banking are usually directly after undergrad and directly after MBA.

3/5/08

So what do you think will put someone like me (hundreds of miles away from NYC) in a favorable position for a position at an Ibank? I have a great deal of sales experience (i work part time to pay for school) I am very good verbally, does this stuff matter? After an MBA does a person get an Analyst position or an Associate position?

3/5/08

It sounds like you dont even know what ibanking is...your best bet is to read a vault guide and research the field on google.

3/5/08

get yourself involved in the industry (finance related article, books, vaults, magazines) and then ask how to break in...bst thing to do...get an I-banking internship, high gpa. by an ibanking internship I man GET TO KNOW THE INDUSTRY, etc.

"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest."

3/5/08

Your sales/verbal skills will hopefully help you be presentable in an interview; that's it. Quantitative skills, knowledge of finance, and technical ability (i.e. Excel, Powerpoint, and research) are really the items that count in hiring an analyst. If you're not yet a junior, try to get as much finance-related experience as you can, and try your best to network your way into a summer analyst position at an i-bank before your junior-to-senior summer. If you miss this, your chances of becoming a full-time analyst virtually evaporate.

Assuming that's the case, which was your original question, your next entry point is post-MBA as an associate, which will be years away. Pre-MBA banking experience is not necessary to become an associate, in fact, most MBA associates have never worked in banking (banking analysts, as a whole, will either go straight to becoming associates without MBAs, leave for the buy-side, or get out of the industry entirely). You will want to have gone to a top MBA program, however, to be recruited to a respectable bank.

By the way, I personally think that an associate position in IBD is relatively unappealing. The pay is pretty decent, but the lifestyle is probably 5-10% better than being an analyst while the exit opportunities are 90-95% worse (and I think exit opportunities represent a large part of what people hope to get out of their time in banking). Something to consider that I think is underappreciated by banking hopefuls on this site.

3/5/08

Ignore the Aggie, please.

3/5/08

what the hell do you mean by 'hedge fund department of a reputable boutique'? what do you do there?

3/5/08

Fund of funds; fund accounting.

3/5/08

7.6 and yes.

See FAQ's before starting threads pleaz.

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."

3/5/08

How hard is it to make a million dollars?

Does it help if I already know a lot of rich people?

3/5/08

It is going to be a lot harder if you continually ask stupid questions

"They're all former investment bankers who were laid off in the economic crash that Nancy Pelosi caused. They've got zero real-world skills, but God they work hard." -Jack Donaghy

3/5/08

Strange how you decided to answer my question when you consider it 'stupid'...how very nice!

3/5/08

Oh it's hard. Really hard. mmmmm

3/5/08

Pretty easy, really. All you need to do is have top grades from a very elite college while having leadership experience in activities and great internships. That and you have to beat a couple hundred other kids who have the same credentials.

Is this a serious question? A quick read around this forum who quickly answer your question. If this is how you approach every question you have, breaking in will be especially tough for you.

3/5/08

How hard is it the play QB in the NFL?

Does it help if you're a Manning not named Cooper??

3/5/08

"Everyone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege."

3/5/08

Oh come on this is just asking to be trolled... "as hard as a Penn State official in the Nittany Lions' locker room."

Seriously why would you ask a question like this...

3/5/08

well you've certainly come to the right place. given you have your MBA, I'm guessing you would be able to get a summer associate position (I'm guessing banks have that, given their SA positions...i may be totally wrong, let me know if i am guys; the HF i work at now have summer analyst spots for MBAs currently enrolled). call up your schools' (both UG and MBA) career centers and ask for some leads. talk to your MBA profs. given, i'm graduating college in May and am just starting my i-banking career, but ive managed to figure out that the majority of finance spots can be acquired due to networking, contacts, etc. just bug anyone you know, and youll get in. good luck.

3/5/08

LOL

3/5/08

Stop trying to impress mommy and daddy

3/5/08

Yeah, do it for yourself not your family.

3/5/08

[deleted]

3/5/08
JulesPeirpontMorgan:

I understand I may be getting ahead of myself .

Great, glad we have that established.

3/5/08

This has been covered a lot. But honestly just get a high gpa, get involved in clubs or whatever and most importantly, have a lot of fun, this is college after all.

3/5/08

Thanks for the advice , I am new to this site . I heard about from some friends , there was a bunch of us at my HS who all want to go into I-banking . The college I am going to has a lot clubs and stuff .

3/5/08

Mercy, I didn't even know what I banking was in HS

3/5/08

Let me guess. Prep school kid

3/5/08

-Good grades
-Get leadership positions (anything, really...as long as you're committed) and/or be good at sports
-Internships
-Show an interest and desire to learn the Financial industry. You don't really need a degree or experience from Economics or Finance (though it helps), but you need to show genuine interest in learning. If your reasoning and motivation for a job in finance is "Because I've heard it pays well", don't expect many calls back after the interviews.

Pretty simple formula. Works for Consulting and other fields as well.

3/5/08

Get an understanding of what investment banking involves.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, post threads about how to do it on WSO.

3/5/08

Start networking NOW. This is the season to make a connection that will hook it up with the fall recruiting cycle. If you do one thing, network your ass off like you life depends on it from now until October.

Get busy living

3/5/08

It's going to be tough without a business or quantitative major from a non-target school.

One path I could possibly see working is Federal Reserve or Treasury -> Fixed Income Research or Trading.

3/5/08
IlliniProgrammer:

It's going to be tough without a business or quantitative major from a non-target school.

One path I could possibly see working is Federal Reserve or Treasury -> Fixed Income Research or Trading.

how much would I get paid, and how easy or hard would it be to segway into i-banking, pe or hf? I did manage to segway into a consulting firm from a background of political campaigns. I frankly don't care whether I i-bank at a bulge bracket or a boutique, even Mickey and Minnie LLP (at least while starting out)

3/5/08

Best Advice I got is apply specifically to Houston/Dallas offices.

3/5/08

The energy trading floors in Houston are littered with Aggies; look up some alum and start networking. Recruiting, both for SA and FT can often be seperate from the main recruiting process for the Houston offices so it's important to get in touch with people down there specifically; don't just apply through the main recruiting process! Being a TAMU student, I'd think you wouldn't have any trouble at least getting some contact info of alum in the field & region.

3/5/08

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I am trying to get to New York where hardly any aggies go

3/5/08

Well than you know the deal. Take advantage of any and all on-campus recruiting, network as much as possible (there must be some aggies in NYC) and apply online.

Remember though, in this market, beggers (which we all are) can't be chosers. You have the unique situation of being at a school which has a lot of alum in a particular market; may be wise to try to take advantage and not place all your eggs in one basket. Recruiting for general programs in New York I'm sure will be extremely competitive this year.

3/5/08

If you have an opportunity to talk to recruiters that are looking to hire someone in Houston, then just go with it and try to get a job in Houston.

Because, if you start telling them that you are really interested in NY, then they will tell you, "okay, I will forward your resume to a recruiter from NY", and you will most likely never hear from them again.

If you really want to go to NY then try to get in touch with someone directly in New York, because otherwise it is almost impossible unless your credentials are outstanding.

3/5/08

In this market I would apply to locations that are most likely to grant an interview. Since A&M is not a school that NY offices normally look at, your resume may get passed over (especially now...banks are hiring fewer and as a result, I would think they will be very highly selective). Personally, I would send the app on over to the houston/dallas offices.

Either way good luck.

3/5/08

One thing that is important is to bust your ass and not expect things to be handed to you on a silver platter.

make it hard to spot the general by working like a soldier

3/5/08

Really try to transfer into a target school. IBD recruiting can be broken down like this, 60% is based on the school you went to, 30% based on your GPA and 10% based on how well you perform in the interviews.

3/5/08

if you want it bad enough, you'll do whatever it takes. anyone on this forum can give you as much as advice as you'd like, and that's a good start, but coming from a non-target you have to be willing to go above and beyond and be creative.

work your ass off, network as much as possible, becoming fluent in the technicals, and find something you can do to set yourself apart from the rest. whatever that special something may be, is completely up to you.

Hard work, dedication, and a little bit of luck is what it takes to get in.

also, use the search bar on this site and run searches for similar topics. this site is littered with non-target kids, myself included, who all want to know the same thing.

"My name's Ralph Cox, and I'm from where ever's not gonna get me hit"

3/5/08

It will be undoubtedly difficult. CSULB is not even a regional target, so you are going to need to network a lot to find someone that is in a position to (1) get you some relevant internships. This means that you need to network in every way possible- linkedin, family, school alumni, you will need to be on the networking grind constantly. This is further stressed by the fact that you are transferring from somewhere else (i am assuming a CC) which means that you only have 2 years left and are transitioning into a new school (meaning wanting to do social activities, make friends, etc). It will be incredibly difficult to break into finance and it will definitely mean sacrificing sleep and fun but if you work your ass off you may have a shot. Also keep in mind that you will be facing tough competition from regional targets (in an already small banking sector in California) and other UC non-targets also trying to break in. Its a tough decision to make and if you make just be prepared for the difficult journey. Good luck.

3/5/08

Would it be easier for be to try to get into a another industry in finance and then try to move into IB? I do not want this to sound like I have no confidence or I'm a lazy ass who does not want to do the work to become one, just I would rather keep the option I would have when I finish school open. Another random question, how does one obtain a branch office with a bank like Morgan Stanley?

3/5/08

obtain an internship?...do you mean at a Morgan Stanley PWM office? or like MS Menlo Park IBD?

3/5/08

I mean the pwm office. One of my friends who attends USC heard that he could get a "branch office" with banks like Merrill Lynch or Morgan Stanley but he needed to obtain is series 7 and 66, although he was never told how to do this or if it was possible.

3/5/08

Worth a try to ask him.

3/5/08

Even though you went to a target (Cornell), your GPA is way too low. So yes, you should ask him for referral. Did you major in nuclear engineering or something? What happened to your grades?

3/5/08

I would definitely network with him and see what he can do. Why I Banking at such a late age? If you want to break in as an associate or higher you probably have to go back to get an MBA and rebrand. I doubt you would want to apply to be an analyst.

3/5/08

pull some strings ...

3/5/08

You absolutely need a MBA.

No one is going to hire a 30 year old engineer to do a 22 year old's job. You would be the laughingstock of the bank, get your story posted on dealbreaker, and distract every other 22 year old from doing their work and being productive.

You'd also make things awkward for the 26 to 28 year old associates who would have to boss you around and yell at you all day.

And of course no bank would hire a 30 year old engineer for an associate role either without a MBA.

3/5/08

Yes, I meant to say that I want to break into I-Banking as an Associate. Not as an analyst. What is the upper age limit to break into I-Baking as an Associate? Are you saying I need to get a MBA to get in as an Associate?
Won't networking help without a MBA?

3/5/08

You need a MBA to get in as an associate.

Networking will not help.

3/5/08

Thanks a lot SanityCheck.
If I go for a MBA, I will be 32/33 when I graduate. Is that too old to be hired as an Associate?
What are my other options on wallstreet if not I-Banking at that age?
How about Equity Research?

3/5/08

Kind of annoying to see you pop up every few weeks with same stupid questions. Make up your mind and go do something instead of doing what if analysis. Ask your brother in law for advice or whatever.

3/5/08

none of ur f***** biz dude. if u don't wanna f***** see my posts don't sit n read them. u actually have the time ot be on this site n sit n reply to stuff u thing is pointless. then simple don't

3/5/08

Haha what a well articulated response. I'm sure thats how associates at BBs respond to their clients.

3/5/08

monikajudd:
none of ur f***** biz dude. if u don't wanna f***** see my posts don't sit n read them. u actually have the time ot be on this site n sit n reply to stuff u thing is pointless. then simple don't

Haha I actually just burst out laughing while I read this. Now my co-workers probably think I'm weird.

"this site n sit n reply to stuff u thing"

Hahaha what?!?! And the fact you are a woman makes it even funnier, because it was so unexpected!

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."

3/5/08

My advice is to really do a self-chek to see if you're cut for this space. What are your strengths/weaknesses, what motivates you, why banking...what is it about banking/finance that is attractive to you. Is it the money, caliber of coworkers, the work product etc. I say go for the MBA but only if you know you can make it work for you in your over arching career objectives - planning for the chance that banking might not be viable.

And no age is not a factor at 30. A pt MBA will definitely be a slight handicap along with your non finance degree but in all honesty if you're smart, somewhat attractive, personable and polished, you might have a shot however it is fierce out there and the reality is if you're a 30-yr old female looking to breaking into banking through MBA recruiting, you better be at least a 7.

My two cents... Take it for what it's worth but this is the truth.

3/5/08

I am a first year analyst in a small boutique and work about 80-90 hours a week. I am going to try to move to a BB or at least a larger bank for my second year.

3/5/08

Are boutiques really that bad? If so, in what ways? Compensation? Exposure? Career opportunities? etc.

3/5/08
Yokonomo:

Are boutiques really that bad? If so, in what ways? Compensation? Exposure? Career opportunities? etc.

from info I found its like this

Boutiques work more or less same hours as BB, except for a few days out of the month when there is little workload

Compensation is more less the same, except the bonuses are about 20% less.

Training is almost non existent, you get to pick up the stuff from older bankers

Competition is worse off than at BBs because Boutiques hire much smaller #s.

Exit ops are less too, When you have goldman on your resume it'll not only open doors but will kick them in. Boutqiues will help you open doors too, but it'll be harder to get into the top business schools, and I'm guessing exit ops into PE are much smaller.

3/5/08

personally my #1 choice right now that I hope to get in is this boutique bank thats literally 10 minutes from my house.

My main reason is that location is very convienent + it'll allow me to have a car which is a big plus since cars are my hobby...+ living at home and saving 1.5K extra per month is excellent too...altho don't dispair..my parents are already making plans for me to pay the mortage for the house...and to use my yearly bonus to pay towards the principal on the mortgage.

3/5/08

The main advantage to working in a boutique is the actual work itself. Even as an analyst, I am involved in the entire deal process and actually participate rather than churning out pitchbooks and putting together PowerPoints all day.

I think that compensation and training depends on the firm. At my boutique, our base is higher than at BBs, but our bonus is a little less. Our training program is almost an exact replica of that of the BB that one of our MDs came from but has been altered by each new analyst that works through it. It is expected that each new analyst contribute something of their own to the program to enhance it for the next analyst.

3/5/08

so pretty much at a boutique you have the responsibilities of an associate at a BB?

3/5/08
aspiringmonkey:

so pretty much at a boutique you have the responsibilities of an associate at a BB?

In some boutiques..YES.

Some...no.

It really depends on how they like to structure their operations and the number of people at each rank there are.

3/5/08

I agree 100% with MonkeyBusiness. At my boutique, we don't hire directly out of college/University. We prefer at least a year of experience in some form of corp fin or finance-related consulting. Although I am a 1st year analyst, I've been out of school for a year already and feel that I have more responsibility than many of my buddies who work in BBs or larger IBs.

3/5/08

I'm looking at a boutique to start out.

Same work as an analyst at a BB, plus you are able to work on the deal process. After two years of that and business school if needed, go kick some ass at a huge BB with an amazing amount of self confidence!

Self confidence, that's where it's at!

3/5/08

generally would any of you say that you move up the ranks as far as promotions faster at boutiques

3/5/08

Hi all,

Considering that boutiques make only a few new hires and do not have extensive recruiting campaigns, what are the best ways to get my foot in the door?

Thank you.

3/5/08

Even for target school students it's very hard to get an IBD offer with no junior SA since most spots are reserved for them. Your only shot would be at a no-name boutique, or luck from networking.

Don't get your CPA. It's a waste of time and money. It's almost impossible to break in from Big 4.

Don't think a top 20 school for MBA would be good enough to break into a good firm at the associate level. Maybe Ross though (T-14).

Have you thought about getting a MsF at a top school and then break in?

3/5/08

I broke in from Big 4 and I backed into the opportunity out of sheer luck. Right place right time sort of thing. unless you have contacts it is very hard to do. The CPA is just an imprimatur on your Accounting degree and it won't help you work in banking.

What you could do: Go on linkedin and search for alum in banking from your school and email them asking to meet or chat so you can learn about their story and/or you could go to your school's career center and ask them what contacts they have at banks throughout the country.

Keep in mind you may have to start at a MM bank and that's not bad because you may realize that moving on to a BB isn't worth it anyway. Plenty of people on here would agree that.

3/5/08
3/5/08

I haven't really weighed a masters in finance against a masters in accounting.

What exactly is an mm?