Career in Real Estate?

I am interested in learning more about having a career in real estate. Are all real estate jobs sales related? If not, what are the non-sales or research position called? How is the pay and work hours? Also does it require undergrads who are from target schools?

 

I agree with OnlineMoniker. Google stuff, read on the forums, and then you can have a guide to what you want. Real Estate can (there will be those who argue with me on this) be defined into two sectors- Residential and Commercial. I'd estimate 90%+ of this site is geared towards commercial. Then theres aspects within both: Finance, Development, Brokerage, and REPE/ REIT/ Asset Management (Real Estate Private Equity, Real Estate Investment Trust, and self explanatory, respectively). Within that there are several "Asset Classes"- some people work in all while others heavily specialize in a niche (ie. Hospitality/Hotels, Multifamily, Office Space, Retail Space, etc.) You can draw more distinctions but this is a broad stroke at a very intricate field. It's sort of like asking "What professions are in the medical field? Is everyone just a doctor?".

“The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary.” - Nassim Taleb
 

Real estate really is a great career choice. As a real estate agent, You’re an independent contractor and control your own book of business. You make the decisions. Couple together a good attitude and solid work ethic, and there are virtually no limits for the growth of your real estate business. Your income isn’t limited by an hourly wage or a corporate-dictated salary range. As a real estate salesperson, your income is largely dictated by the time you invest. Grow your real estate business by adding an assistant or get the appropriate license that lets you build your own brokerage. The growth potential is huge.

 

The pay for real estate jobs is typically commission but, based on averaging annual income against hours worked, the BLS reports a median hourly wage for real estate agents to be $18.82. Brokers bring in a bit more -- $28.05 per hour -- because they collect a percentage of their agents' commissions. Income for both can be irregular and fluctuate, depending on the real estate market and economic conditions.

 

In your brief overview, it sounds like you have some solid pre-MBA work experience in IB and Corp Fin. I actually went through USC's EMBA program and finished last year, so congrats on taking the steps to become a proud Trojan. I've been in corp fin working for a REIT in SoCal for the last 7+ years. This includes pre and post-MBA experience as I did the program while working (could not justify taking off 2 yrs). There has been a broad range of responsibilities that really laid a solid framework on the business in its entirety.

As for post-MBA opportunities within RE, yes, it is more region dependent, although there are some solid REITs and private RE companies from NorCal down through San Diego. You will likely have the opportunity to focus on Finance and/or Asset Management at most firms, but really depends what you think you will like.

I can certainly provide more color on my experience(s) and get a list of companies together which you can do some research on. Fight on!

 
West Coast Analyst:
What do you guys think about the future prospect in real estate development or finance in general? Anything I should be worried about? I understand post MBA recruiting is sporadic, and is region dependent. I'm not sure how cyclical it is exactly, but I assume the industry wasnt doing too hot during the last recession.
Sure, it can be sporadic and region-dependent. Nobody knows where the market will be in 2 yrs when you finish school. Right now, things are good. Ideally, you would've entered b-school two years ago and graduated last month, but hindsight's 20/20, right?

You're asking a pretty broad question. You mention "finance in general." Even if we hit a speedbump, it won't be like 2008. People like you, who have i-banking and corpfin experience, are not the ones who should be worried. You sound like you are already certain that you're going, but I'm not 100% sure someone like you would absolutely need an MBA to do real estate given your strong background.

 

Hi Roone, check out these resources:

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Hope that helps.

I'm an AI bot trained on the most helpful WSO content across 17+ years.
 

Medium term (like in the next 5-10 years) I'd like to become a chief lending/chief credit officer of a bank or large financial institution and ultimately a bank executive in the longer term--10-20 years. This in conjunction with local politics (e.g. county councilman). In today's dollars, I'd be happy around $200,000/year. On the real estate side specifically, I'm going to continue to develop vacant infill lots indefinitely (single family house developments). My first 5 projects have netted $586,000 since January 2010.

So definitely real estate from the asset backed lending and single family development side. Not interested in becoming a "master of the universe". I want to get married, have children, adopt some rescue dogs and cats and live a quiet and peaceful life.

 

Near term, find a small ($5mm-$15mm) pool of equity (preferably passive and foreign) and execute my investment strategies in the commercial and hospitality space.

Mid-to-long term, roll out one of my CRE online concepts in a particularly under-serviced space while continuing to oversee my traditional real estate investment and operating co.

For now, continue working to make those with the gold rich while expanding my relationship base and learning as much as possible.

 

Do you have operating experience? You seem confident in your ability to get $5-15m so jus curious. I want to do the same, however I lack operating experience which I figure investors will view as rather important.

 

I am in my early 20's and already own a few properties. I would like to build out a large portfolio. I am in banking and my goal is too leave as soon as I get the right opportunity. Whether that be finding investors or just accumulating enough money to start making the right investments.

Array
 
davidsandler:
You always hear about equities / fixed guys going on to start their own funds or join hedge funds. Not so much buzz about RE guys... or am I missing it?

You know what, I'm just gna say it... is this a career path that can lead to $$$$?

Sure you do. A friend of a friend started a fund focused on office properties is now personally worth a couple hundred million. And as far as hedge funds, look at the largest multi-strat hedge funds trading equities, of course they have guys who focus on real estate stocks. That's kind of a weird role you're looking at, though. You sure you wouldn't be taking a step back?
 

Hey propsie, thanks for your reply.

It is a bit of a strange one, in that I can't find anything on it in the forums. Global Property Analyst is the job title - it would make me one of two people covering global RE analysis, all macro. Other guys on the team cover specific countries / regions (UK / EU / Asia). And the research team basically does two jobs... (1) forming strategic views of the global property market (i.e. where prices are likely to be rising, and then advising the funds various direct property teams accordingly... and (2) writing research pieces which are distributed externally to clients and potential clients.

Not sure its a step back in that I'm currently a grad, so this would mean taking up a more senior position within the company. Is that what you meant?

Those guys who make the jump into managing funds, don't they come from direct property backgrounds? With the research job i'd know about the markets but wouldn't have anything to do with the actual deals :/

Bloody confusing. Nice to get the offer, and certainly sounds good on paper, though its hit me side on in that I was never shooting for RE. Just not clear on the exit strategy / progression possibilities

 

Not sure what your role is now but this sounds like the kind of thing that might always relegate you to a research oriented role going forward. Exits could be to a research team at one of the brokerage houses, a research firm like CoStar, or to work as a consultant. Without property/deal level experience, moving to a role that is closer to the assets would be less likely.

 

It is not my intention to be rude, but this IS the Real Estate Finance sub-forum.

Read a few topics here and understand that finance plays a huge role in everything: development, acquisitions, property/asset/portfolio management. Even commercial brokers can't get by without being able to put together a solid offering memorandum without financial projections.

 

I go to a pretty big RE school and we didn't have a single RE development company come down to recruit for UG, we did have some REITs like Walton Street Acquisitions and REPE shops like DLJ RE come down though.

 

Very rare for developers to recruit undergrads. Its all about networking. Development is a business that is more about relationships rather than technical skills. Sure you calculate future cash flows and IRRs, but an ARGUS program can spit those numbers out. An entry-level position into "front-office" development is usually through the project-management side. Where you acutally run a project from front-end finanical modeling to actual build-up and eventual sales. These positions require experience as you deal with many different parties such as, advisory groups/lenders, architects, contractors, brokers, etc. A lot of the project managers come from construction management or engineering backgrounds.

I'd say a good place to look at if you absolutely have no connections, but have a finance background is an advisory group or commercial real estate lender. These guys control the money and usually have contact with a bunch of developers.

 

From everything I've gathered, you aren't going to get hired out of undy, for development. Best way to break in, I was told was doing analysis work for the REIT, because they hire undergrads, and you get the experience etc.

 

I work in commercial real estate (specifically on the valuation side) and I'd say all the previous posts are pretty darn correct (even the one disagreeing with the others, lol). I've also heard that working for the Big 4 valuation groups is a good jump from there.

My plan of action is to stick with my company for 3 years or so and become an MAI (Member, Appraisal Institute) and a Certified General Appraiser (CG) and then to try to make a jump to Deloitte (or another Big 4 in my area that has a valuation practice) and get my MBA. The MBA, from what I've seen, is the ticket to getting on as associates. Connections help a lot (it's nice that I work with five unique developers per week).

Array
 

Good question, rebnk. Real estate works like a lot of industries--there's the "prestige" factor in working for a Big 4 plus the name recognition (if I told you who I worked for you'd say, "uhh, who?"). In addition, developers love financially-minded people and the CPA license carries some decent weight in the industry (I passed L1 of the CFA exam while working as an IB analyst, but I dropped it when I moved to real estate, but the CFA charter is nice, too for REITs, just not needed for development). Project managers/senior project managers/associates, etc. need to have finance skills, acccounting skills, valuation knowledge, construction knowledge, managerial abilities, etc. You can knock out the finance, accounting, and valuation knowledge at a Big 4 plus gain the name recognition as well as free CPA classes.

Oh yeah, and depending on where you're located, Big 4 valuation offices specialize in commercial real estate (like the office down the street from my current employer). Excellent question. Hope this helps some.

Array
 

Thanks for the reply. Didn't mean to come off in the wrong way on the last post, but I happen to work for a Big 4. I am in my second year with the firm and my current client is a BB RE fund.

I am actively trying to break into their RE Valuation Group but I have to say, most people there seem to leave after a year or so to go work for a commercial firm, not the other way around - kind of caught me off guard.

Since I am working for a Big 4, I personally think that the RE valuation group is a great middle step for someone like myself who is trying to break into the industry.

Where are u located - if you don't mind me asking?

 

Hey tyrone slothrop - like I mentioned before, I am in my second year at a Big 4. My current client is a RE fund of a BB bank - but it's audit work, so needless to say the work leave a lot to be desired.

I am really hoping to make a move into the RE Valuations Group here as a way to break into the industry - i'm not sure how easy/hard of a process this will be.

How has your experience been? Any advice to offer?

 

reb, I'm out of Washington, DC. If you want to break into commercial real estate, you're going to have to start at the very bottom (I'm talking about work that will make you feel like your employer thinks you're of subhuman intelligence); coming from a career where my co-workers were almost universally ivy league graduates and where I spent the first 9 weeks (during training) being praised as "the best and the brightest," switching to a job where the work could be done by a well-trained monkey was difficult, but I've adjusted.

Check out the National Association of Real Estate Investment Trusts (NAREIT) at nareit.com and check out their jobs section and look at their national job postings. You'll see that almost (almost) every "entry-level" real estate development or investment job requires 2-5 years of experience. Low pay, low prestige and borderline humiliating work is your price paid for excellent training, specialized skills and experience, and the subsequent ability to work relatively light hours while making excellent money in a dynamic and challenging industry.

Check out big national firms like CoStar Group, CB Richard Ellis and AIMCO.

Array
 

Thanks for the insight. I have been searching through job postings since this past June and haven't had much luck.

You are exactly right that all of the postings require 2-5 years experience - even when they are supposedly "entry-level."

Real Estate is honestly a passion of mine, and I am more than willing to start at the bottom and learn the business. Hopefully I will find a way to break in.

Thanks again for the advice.

typical REIB includes equity offerings for real estate companies (like REITs) and advising on real estate company mergers.

it's unique because the modeling/accounting is completely different.

exit opps are great within RE, including RE PE (I would guess that ideally the most badass possible place to work after a stint in REIB is blackstone's real estate group). former real estate M&A analysts are some of the most sought after.

when Krakauer suggests that you just go straight into the buyside, he means you should go into a smaller RE private equity shop (because you probably won't be able to get into a huge one like Beacon) even if you have the option to work at the real estate coverage group at Morgan Stanley. some people would disagree with him and argue that it's tough to go from a smaller REPE fund to a big one.

_______________________________________ http://www.drmarkklein.blogspot.com/
 

I am a 3rd year PE analyst and our group specializes in retail/real estate and my experience with our RE bankers has been that they are well versed in many areas and are generalists. The scope of their knowledge has far exceeded the real-estate sector and I would imagine that it would be very easy for them to shift to the buyside with that type of background. Not to mention that real estate professionals are some of the most well-connected guys in the world and only strengthen your network.

 

What firms have the best RE i-banking sectors? Probably a dumb question... but I was curious if banks have different real estate groups in different sectors. For example, would real estate acquistions fall under asset management rather than i-banking?

 

mm44, you are really lost. taking companies public, selling them to acquirers, etc = IB. investing in real estate is obviously not IB.

_______________________________________ http://www.drmarkklein.blogspot.com/

I would suggest that he go into something like ING, JPMAM, etc real estate AM/acquisitions group. Not necessarily a "small" group, but a less opportunistic fund (ie. easier to get into and gain buy-side experience). The job is almost identical to a more opportunistic PE fund, and it is extremely common to exit to them. Why spend time dealing with taking reits public when you can start dealing with the physical assets? '

Also, RE IB at MS is obviously extremely respectable and probably would be an exception.

 

Krakauer,

Is it common for firms that you mentioned above to hire straight out of Undergrad? On that note... do you have any other suggestions for someone interested in both banking/finance and real estate?

Thanks.

 

Yes, they do. Most asset management companies have RE acquisition groups in alternatives, and I would imagine most hire analysts. The classes are small though -- 3-6 for most groups, I'd imagine.

 

spent a summer at a reputable asset management firm in their alternatives division. worked on a lot of development and re acquisition deals. great exposure to financing structure of deals as well as understanding the real estate markets and actually visiting properties

 

i am not actually a RE ibanker, but will be starting in the fall. I learned most of my introductory stuff from Peter Linneman's Real Estate Finance and Investment's book. It is quite a practical text book and is very easy to read. with that said, i still think you have to know general corp fin applied to RE to do well in RE iBanking.

 

Real estate is an industry. I don't know much about AM, but from what I've seen it's hard to get into a position where you're dealing with all different types of investment vehicles (assuming you mean debt, equities, direct investment, etc.) on a daily basis. Most shops I've seen specialize.

 

Yes it is an industry. You should start off by trying to get an internship/job at a real estate investment/private eq/REIT on their acquisitions team, so you can understand how to underwrite properties. A big shop will do all types of RE (MF, Office, Retail, and Ind), as well as different strategies for each of their different funds (core, core +, opp, value added) and even direct/co inv, highly leveraged, etc.

I assume you want to be the MD (PM) for the group? Going to take at least 10-12 years, so you need to get a job where you are valuing real estate.

  1. American Realty Advisors
  2. legacy partners
  3. prudential
  4. principal global investors
  5. Goodman real estate
  6. hines
  7. rreef
  8. equity office
  9. the Carlyle group
  10. harsch investment properties
  11. blackrock
  12. arden realty
  13. vornado realty trust
  14. UBS
  15. AEW
  16. ING Clarion
  17. Alinda
  18. IFM
  19. Morgan Stanley
  20. Goldman
  21. JPM

list of some

-- "Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say."
 

Caveat to the below: my business is a far cry from working for Blackstone PE, but real estate is still real estate, which is an experience-based, generally pragmatic business.

Don't you think you've spent enough time in school at this point? How is more schooling going to make you a more attractive candidate for the type of positions you want, especially a "low-tier" MBA?

My understanding of the major REPE fund world is they basically only hire kids who kicked ass for 2 years in investment banking. You might want to think about other options in the real estate business. There are a lot of ways to make money that might be more accessible than Blackstone. To the extent any name-brand REPE shops hire straight out of school, I imagine there is a very short list of schools they hire from.

 
HFFBALLfan123:
One RE class and one finance class most certainly does not mean you know anything about modeling, just an fyi.

^^^Agree.

What you need is work experience, not research, not an MBA. If you want a job in academia, do all the research you want. You can have all the degrees in the world, but if you can do anything you're of no value to anyone.

I'll do what I can to help ya'll. But, the game's out there, and it's play or get played.
 

thanks for your comments.

If I do online MBA, I will be finishing it up by the end of 2014 while I am away from my PhD program. I will be done with schooling for good by mid-2015....so I am not spending any more years in school. I think having a MBA could give me a lot of credibility when I apply to IB or consulting firms (which hire advanced degree holder). I am also interested in real estate and working with a REPE fund would be okay too. I didn't mean to say I know everything about modeling. As of now, I am just familiar with the basic/intermediate stuff.....But to take my skills to the another level, I want to pursue additional training in term of either MBA or CFA or solid certificate program. (Again, I will do a lot of networking)

Which option should I do? Do I have a realistic/unrealistic shot at an associate position (filled by MBA grads)? Any comments from RE professionals here?

 
buzzyforth:
thanks for your comments.

If I do online MBA, I will be finishing it up by the end of 2014 while I am away from my PhD program. I will be done with schooling for good by mid-2015....so I am not spending any more years in school. I think having a MBA could give me a lot of credibility when I apply to IB or consulting firms (which hire advanced degree holder). I am also interested in real estate and working with a REPE fund would be okay too. I didn't mean to say I know everything about modeling. As of now, I am just familiar with the basic/intermediate stuff.....But to take my skills to the another level, I want to pursue additional training in term of either MBA or CFA or solid certificate program. (Again, I will do a lot of networking)

Which option should I do? Do I have a realistic/unrealistic shot at an associate position (filled by MBA grads)? Any comments from RE professionals here?

I wouldn't even say you've got the basics of modeling down if you've never worked anywhere.

An MBA won't give you any more credibility than your PhD, go to work! Quit delaying life. At the moment you have no skills to take to another level...

This is coming from a RE guy who has worked with (not for) BX in the past.

I'll do what I can to help ya'll. But, the game's out there, and it's play or get played.
 

I don't want to stay in academia. My goal has been to join the private sector once I am done with PhD. Just to clarify, I took 4 classes (corporate finance, real estate investment, securitization, and financial modeling) plus lots of econ classes up to graduate level (quant-heavy). I think it's okay for someone to be able to do anything as long as it's of high quality and value for others.

 
buzzyforth:
I don't want to stay in academia. My goal has been to join the private sector once I am done with PhD. Just to clarify, I took 4 classes (corporate finance, real estate investment, securitization, and financial modeling) plus lots of econ classes up to graduate level (quant-heavy). I think it's okay for someone to be able to do anything as long as it's of high quality and value for others.

Hi PhD, I bet you will find ths thread quite funny after u actually start working.

The Auto Show
 
buzzyforth:
I don't want to stay in academia. My goal has been to join the private sector once I am done with PhD. Just to clarify, I took 4 classes (corporate finance, real estate investment, securitization, and financial modeling) plus lots of econ classes up to graduate level (quant-heavy). I think it's okay for someone to be able to do anything as long as it's of high quality and value for others.

Duuuude, why did you do PhD then?

Anyway, you will be able to network a lower level position provided you can interview well. Blackstone - probably not, but look around the different funds. Sometimes places like to have someone a little different on their roster. If you are one of those PhDs with 0 social skills I suggest that you become a prof.

Don't let your education go to your head though. I am trying to come up with reasons why it might make you a more effective worker and all I can think about is that you are probably setting your sights too high and have little marketable skills at the moment. Have to start from the bottom like everyone else.

 

pplstuff, thanks for your comment.

I am almost done with my PhD. I can't just quit school at this moment. I have to wait until 2015 to become a full-time employee. Since I will be busy with my research activity for dissertation, interning over summer at a fund is not a possibility. Right now, all I can do is something flexible such as self-study or online training.

Please tell me how I can improve my profile when I go on the job market.

 

Why not look into brokerage at your local CBRE/Colliers International/Jones Lang LaSalle branch? With a law degree you'll be an ace at reading leases and you'll be able to land a better role than analyst. Also, it'll give you "real estate experience" for you to utilize later on.

Commercial Real Estate Developer
 

Hi, thank you for responding to my frustration. I don't have a law degree yet, and only took the LSAT and got above 80 percentile score... but I do have paralegal work experience.

I am more of a career switcher from law/politics to real estate/analyst, so trying to break the ice and step into this new field.

 

I guess, what your friends have suggested is right.. There is need to get trained before starting your career as real estate broker. Getting a license is easy in this field but lot of hard work is needed for accomplishing success. You need to stay active all the time regarding the current market trends.

 

These jobs aren't unicorns. Go work for a small REPE shop. Easy hours when u don't have a live deal, and only need to close a few deals a year (big pot relative to number of ppl u have to split it with). Not super salesy, but very entrepreneurial so u do have to do some networking. Good comp if y'all can execute. Not very secure though, and constantly worried about if you'll make ur nut every year.

 

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