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Citi offer--I accepted, is it safe?

columbiabanker's picture
Rank: Chimp | 10

Hi there,

I received an offer from Citi after a really difficult interview process with 150 billion banks. Supposing this were my only offer, do you think it's a safe offer just for the purpose of being a SA? I am reading the news now and nationalization fears have gripped me as well as the NYSE...

Do you think an offer is relatively safe? What are the conditions in which it would not be honored? I'm not necessarily concerned with long-term here. But do you think I'd be safe for the summer?

Comments (366)

Feb 22, 2009

Nothing is safe. Only time will tell.

Besides, if its the only offer you have, all you can do is keep interviewing until you get another offer and then take the appropriate steps.

Keep interviewing.

The world has changed. And we must change with it.

I'm making it up as I go along.

Feb 22, 2009

Thanks for the response. You're right. Do you think nationalization would cause them to stop hiring SAs?

Feb 22, 2009

I doubt they'd stop hiring summer analysts. They might take on fewer full time employees but like Cornelius said. Just keep your fingers crossed and continue networking and shopping around for backup offers.

Feb 22, 2009

I am pretty sure that SA's are the LAST thing on their minds right now...

Feb 22, 2009

What division+/group?

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Feb 23, 2009

agree with cornelius. the reality is that nobody here is going to have any insight into whether your internship offer is safe.

there is no reason to assume it will be. NONE. if citi is nationalized, all bets are off.

Feb 23, 2009

There is a very high probability that your offer is safe (unless Citi shuts its doors).

People on this board keep talking about how offers aren't safe, but keep in mind that they are just speculating. And more than 90% of WSO's members are still in school and have never even been inside an investment bank.

Not one BB that is still standing has rescinded any offers yet, and most likely will not; especially when it comes to Summer Analysts.

Banks do not care about the $13K they will have to pay summer analysts and will not want to create a bad reputation by rescinding your offer.

BTW, I am just speculating myself, but there are too many people here instilling fear in others while not having a clue what they're talking about, not necessarily in this thread but many others alike.

Feb 23, 2009

JP morgan moved some of its IBD summer interns to PWM last year.... bear rescinded their IBD intern offers or forced them to work for a charity... keep in mind this summer will be worse than last...

Feb 23, 2009
moelis3756:

JP morgan moved some of its IBD summer interns to PWM last year....

I definitely don't remember hearing anything about this. Really?

Feb 23, 2009
moelis3756:

JP morgan moved some of its IBD summer interns to PWM last year.... bear rescinded their IBD intern offers or forced them to work for a charity... keep in mind this summer will be worse than last...

This is only partially correct. JP moved some of their SA's to the commercial banking side, not PW. Bear offers (some) did go to work for a non-profit..not a charity, but none-the-less. Word on the street is UBS will move their IBD analysts to PWM since it is the only strong part of the firm.

Citi offer? This is the riskiest bank in my opinion, for it has suffered the most and Vik Pandit loves to slash the cutting axe.

Feb 23, 2009

I posted on the Goldman operations v. Citi S&T thread that with Citi effectively bankrupt, all that remains to be determined is the terms by with the feds take it over and start reorganizing.

If fed-owned Citi gets run like a firm that's just been LBOed, it'll be ugly. They'll slash every cost they possibly can in a wild effort to become profitable in the shortest time profitable.

And when that happens, count on a 30% payroll reduction. Survivors will count themselves lucky to have a job. So they won't bitch about no longer getting bonuses.

The really only interesting question will be whether Citi can operate in the black once all its toxic debt gets transferred to a fed-run "bad bank." (Creating this "bad bank" will be the major concern in protecting taxpayer interests and until the feds work out the details, Citi will not get taken over. Wait another 2-3 weeks.)

New management isn't interested in the long-term. So no worrying about grooming the next generation of bankers and traders. They're an expense that's better off slashed.

My prediction: anyone who has been hired for a job at Citi that starts this summer/fall will get a letter in the next few months saying the offer's been rescinded.

Feb 23, 2009

If you care about having an internship, you are prob. safe. If you care about getting a full time job, not so much. But if you get it, you should be safe for at least a year, when you'll be cheap, humble, labor. If the market picks up by then, you'll be in good shape. Good luck.

Thank said, nothing is safe or guaranteed. Congrats and good luck.

"Categorical Imperative: If I cannot look at my mother or my wife in the eyes and explain it, I won't do it" - Some British MD.

Feb 23, 2009

my .02 cents...every bank has had some negative rumors to some degree regarding their analysts, summer analysts, associates, summer associates etc. It's very difficult to base your decision off of historical actions when the bank everyone has deemed safe, may or may not implement the same programs that has deterred you from others. Just because CS/UBS hasn't done any summer moving in the past, doesn't mean they won't follow the footsteps of GS, JPM, etc this summer. After all, this is an incredibly difficult situation for the banks to be in and nobody knows how they will respond.

I think just go with which bank you like and hope for the best.

Feb 23, 2009

I appreciate all your feedback. I am going to keep looking around, but judging by how hard it has been to get this far and how many of my friends have been rejected elsewhere (and we're a big target school), I wish I could just take this and be comfortable for this summer. Sadly the world says otherwise!

I should have been more clear on the division/group, as I wasn't exactly sure where to post this (and being a new monkey I wanted to avoid stern looks of disappointment from the elder monkeys) but it's GTS within citi's CMB group. I really loved the program description and all the people. They've been one of Citi's less destroyed groups over the past couple of years, but I don't know if that counts for much really.

I'm not necessarily opposed to moving-- I'll do anything for the experience-- I just need to make sure that I get something. Anything really.

Feb 23, 2009

Isn't GTS = global transaction services? I thought that was part of the commercial arm not investment banking.

Feb 23, 2009

It's part of their Institutional clients group. I have to admit I didn't know where to best classify it. I apologize for that. If a moderator wants to move the topic, that would be fine. Again, apologies.

Feb 23, 2009

It's fine in this forum, it's just that commercial banking isn't investment banking. You're likely safer with this offer, at least that's my assumption

Feb 23, 2009

i would agree that you're probably safer if it's in GTS...it's a lower risk, lower reward business, and there's probably more constant flow of business

Feb 24, 2009

is one of Citi's highest revenue generating division. That'll be one of the last to go...

Feb 24, 2009

As far as Citi goes, GTS is absolutely one of the safest. Don't lose sleep over it.

Mar 12, 2010

Funny I got the same offer~ gotta take it just for the hard time application and interview process. GTS is actually the happiest group at Citi generating 50% of its profits. Its a God bless for me or for anyone who got the position since the current job market is so narrow.
I mean the offer is definitely safe man. The recruiter just sent out an email saying that Citi is covering for all our housing expenses at NYU as well as traveling expense go and back~ All my interviewers are real nice, I put my best effort and this is what I get, therefore what I deserve; I thank God for the blessings.

At very least, even if Citi goes down (unlikely IMO because of its influence, plus the Government ownership has gone down quite a bit..toxic assets still an issue though) anyways, it just never hurts to have Citi NY on your resume in current economy~

Signs of Recession:
Banker: "Where's me Bonus?"
Yuppie: "Whadya mean I have to actually work?"
Fox Rock Mum: "Lidl's the place to be seen in now!"
Cowen: "It's not my fault that me and my party are complete f**k-ups - it's the recession silly!"

Mar 12, 2010

lol feather... why are you responding to this board? it was a yr ago in the heat of it all.

we all know the ending to this story. EVERYTHING WAS ALRIGHT.

Mar 12, 2010

Yea lol this thread was from a year ago - Citi's alive (for now).

Mar 12, 2010

To be safe

Long Career - Short City Stock

If you're bullish long career and long stock

Mar 12, 2010
GoVolckYourself:

To be safe

Long Career - Short City Stock

If you're bullish long career and long stock

City. Yes, City.

Mar 12, 2010

LOL MY BAD!!! I got my offer on the 2/22 as well.. didnt realize it was 2009~~ make sense now; I was wondering who would worry about Citi's offer these days..

GovolckYourself~ Citi stock price jumped from 3.1-4.2 in less than 2 weeks, and 20% just in this week..

Check it out: http://www.cnbc.com/id/35833754?__source=yahoo|headline|quote|text|&par=yahoo
I wouldn't sell for the long run and I think it would be risky to short sale~ once they solve all the toxic asset problems, the stock price wouldn't remain in a single digit. Plus the Government ownership went down at least 7-8% and Citi is continuing to get rid of them. On the other side though, government really brought Citi some revenue, especially in GTS.. would be a win-lose relationship I guess..

Signs of Recession:
Banker: "Where's me Bonus?"
Yuppie: "Whadya mean I have to actually work?"
Fox Rock Mum: "Lidl's the place to be seen in now!"
Cowen: "It's not my fault that me and my party are complete f**k-ups - it's the recession silly!"

Mar 12, 2010

But will they solve all the toxic asset problems?

Mar 12, 2010

Thats a million dollar question~ lol

Signs of Recession:
Banker: "Where's me Bonus?"
Yuppie: "Whadya mean I have to actually work?"
Fox Rock Mum: "Lidl's the place to be seen in now!"
Cowen: "It's not my fault that me and my party are complete f**k-ups - it's the recession silly!"

Mar 12, 2010

relax dude. It's only a 10 week position.

--
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say."

Mar 15, 2010
nutsaboutWS:

relax dude. It's only a 10 week position.

truth is you would have made quite some money if you saw it coming :)

Signs of Recession:
Banker: "Where's me Bonus?"
Yuppie: "Whadya mean I have to actually work?"
Fox Rock Mum: "Lidl's the place to be seen in now!"
Cowen: "It's not my fault that me and my party are complete f**k-ups - it's the recession silly!"

Mar 15, 2010

They honestly have bigger concerns right now then the incoming class, but something drastic is going to happen to this firm soon...

Mar 15, 2010

There arent gonna be any rescinded offers yet, because as Devils Advocate said, they have bigger fish to fry. The people in the firm are worried about their own jobs first, and pandit's trying to keep the company from going underwater. It's only after everything else has settled, before they'll start thinking about business going forward (which is basically what the incoming analyst class is about)

Sit tight, it's gonna be a long and nasty ride

  • aloki
  •  Mar 15, 2010

Should be interesting...

Mar 15, 2010

We will hear something significant Sunday night.

Whether it be a merger, government bailout, or combination of both...

Mar 15, 2010

Sounds like mid-September when Lehman went into the weekend with everyone saying the same thing, and then boom, nothing.

Scary stuff. Best of luck to anyone at Citi.

Mar 15, 2010

does anyone think they can really go under?

Mar 15, 2010
dweezy:

does anyone think they can really go under?

most likely they are to big to fail

Mar 15, 2010

of course something is happening there this weekend. i mean its not like the OP has some great insight here. CNBC reported it yesterday evening and even said some of the big currency moves friday were a result of people preparing for the Citi shake up.

Mar 15, 2010

Are they even worth saving? It's not like I have any inside sources, but it just seems like Citi has had nothing but bad news come it's direction during the whole banking disaster.

I suppose if Goldman offered them 10 cents a share that might be worth it, but the way it seems the company has been managed I don't even know if it would be possible to get them up and running again.

Mar 15, 2010

If Citi is not saved, we are all fucked.

So yes, in that sense, the company is worth saving.

Mar 15, 2010

but what happens if it get saved? Is it going to be like BS or AIG? Or is Citi going to be able to come back and be Citi never sleeps again...

p.s I don't see these commercials anymore

Mar 15, 2010

We won't know for sure until I suspect Sunday night.

Honestly, I'm expecting maybe government buying more preferred shares..thought that would further dilute common equity holders.

Perhaps they will sell of portions of the business?

Not sure...I feel as though if there was going to be some government-assisted merger we would be hearing about it right now.

Mar 15, 2010

I think Goldman may come in and purchase their commercial arm, as for Smith Barney Vikram Pandit (CEO) mention that he would like to keep that.

Mar 15, 2010

I don't think Citi would let go off it's commercial arm. That's the one thing that has prevented Citi from pulling a Lehman.

Mar 15, 2010

Yeah after the merge between these two companies they may have a nice name.

Sex(Sachs) and the City(Citi) Investment Group

Mar 15, 2010

^ lol

Mar 15, 2010

I can hardly wait for Sachs and the Citi.

Mar 15, 2010

..hmm sunday afternoon and still nada.

I'm making it up as I go along.

Mar 15, 2010

It seems that additional government funding is going to be most likely. Another 50 billion dollars or so. Although, I'm quite certain the treasury will take some sort of a crazy stake in the company and we all know that the treasury holding too much stake in any company isn't good. I would prefer they sell some of their units off instead. It seems they are encouraging their existing investors to increase their stakes so they can avoid additional government funding.

Mar 15, 2010

The government is in talks to buy a reported $100bn in risky assets from Citi.

Mar 15, 2010

what are you talking about? they have done quite well

Mar 15, 2010

I am looking at Thomson and worldwide announced they are 10th, "US target" announced they are 9th. Nowhere close they were 2-3yrs ago.

Mar 15, 2010
tt_space:

I am looking at Thomson and worldwide announced they are 10th, "US target" announced they are 9th. Nowhere close they were 2-3yrs ago.

Citi will be fine. They're probably at the top of the list after GS/MS/JPM. I also believe their M&A, Industrials and TMT groups are very strong.

Mar 15, 2010
tt_space:

I am looking at Thomson and worldwide announced they are 10th, "US target" announced they are 9th. Nowhere close they were 2-3yrs ago.

You should look at completed. Announced can change drastically in the space of one day.

I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing.

Mar 15, 2010

Citi is doing ok this year in completed deals globally. Global Industrials and TMT groups are some of the best coverage groups in the business.

Mar 15, 2010

This "terrible" BB you are talking about is 2-3 in completed deals. Industrials, TMT, and M&A are extremely strong. But yes its a crazy move to join them, you should join BoaML instead, they are doing much better. I highly doubt you have an offer from there.

Mar 15, 2010

I'm not sure boa is a harder job offer to get than citi, what makes you say that?

Mar 15, 2010

I think he was sarcastic :). Thank you for opinions!

Mar 15, 2010

Top 5 bank, even consistently beats out the likes of JPM in completed M&A deals. Trolling is bad mmmkay?

Mar 15, 2010

get an offer first...

Mar 15, 2010

In most rankings, boaml is ahead of citi though. For the global ib fee revenue of the first 9 months of 2010, boaml is #2 and citi is #7.

Mar 15, 2010
monetarist001:

In most rankings, boaml is ahead of citi though. For the global ib fee revenue of the first 9 months of 2010, boaml is #2 and citi is #7.

LOL. BAML is a good place but it's not better than Citi.

Mar 15, 2010

I think bashing both Citi and BoAML on this forum is ridiculous... Most people reading this are praying to land a job at these places...this isn't a coffee room discussion at GS!

Mar 15, 2010

Deleted by author

Mar 15, 2010

Fee revenues? Doing a bunch more commercial related corp banking deals doesn't matter.

In M&A completed, Citi is 2nd and 3rd for U.S. and World.

Mar 15, 2010

You can look it up yourself:

http://financial.thomsonreuters.com/deo/pdf/Global...
Even if you just count the M&A portion of the fees, boaml is still ahead of citi. M&A completed in itself doesn't mean much. How much money you get out of them is the real measure.

Mar 15, 2010

What i'm saying is doing lots of smaller deals for more money isn't as important. Evercore has very low fees as a whole vs. UBS as a whole but I'd rather work at the former (or any boutique for that matter).

You should do a revenues / total bankers which might mean more.

M&A completed definitely is the #1 standard in this industry.

Mar 15, 2010

But wait, Evercore doesn't rank very high in M&A completed either. That of course doesn't mean Evercore isn't an excellent bank. It's just that M&A completed is a quantity measure, not a quality measure. And when it comes to individual's career choice, which is OP's original question, it is the quality measure that counts, not quantity measure. I do agree with you that we should use revenues / total bankers when it is about the quality and career choices.

Mar 15, 2010

ML used to be one of the best i banks in the world, and with the integration, they can offer products that many other banks can't, some parts of the business is basically only a fight between BAML and JPM... Citi is a great place to be, you learn alot and build great contacts... get offers and decide which place you fit in the best...

Mar 15, 2010

All the half decent people have left over past two years.

Only dbags like this work there now in FIG, which used to be the highest revenue group

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdQh61ODsnc

Mar 15, 2010

^I'm sorry you go rejected from Citi but please stop trolling.

Mar 15, 2010

I think a FIG banker @ Citi stole his gf. Sad he took so long on such an unfunny video.

Mar 15, 2010

its just amazing how unfunny it is.. and i usually love this animations

Mar 15, 2010

Spoke to few MDs and VPs by the way of campus recruiting and they spoke well about Citi. They said it is not the best year for Citi, but they expect them to rebound soon and they consider them as a greater competitor than they consider non-US banks.

Mar 15, 2010

My boss at Citi got laid off yesterday...bummer!!

Mar 15, 2010
naija:

My boss at Citi got laid off yesterday...bummer!!

Are you based in London or NY?

"LIVING THE DREAM 24/7 ON http://THEALLNIGHTER.BLOGSPOT.COM"

Mar 15, 2010

what dept do you work in?

Mar 15, 2010

could be unrelated.

Mar 15, 2010

naijia, aren't you still in school? Your profile says so.

Mar 15, 2010

I think this might be part of the same article.. It was posted on Vault.

TheDeal.com
Citi cuts: Second- and third-year I-bankers could be safe
by Vipal Monga Posted 03:48 EST, 11, Apr 2007

The announcement by Citigroup Inc. on Wednesday, April 11, that it would cut 17,000 jobs across the entire company won't mean the bank will see many reductions in its investment banking arm, sources say. However, a source close to the matter said this may mean "no bonus" for first-year analysts, the most junior of junior bankers.

According to sources, however, most of the reductions in the investment banking advisory arms will not come by jettisoning "worthwhile" bankers. Rather, the bank, as it hopes to do throughout the organization, will try to save money by consolidating first-year analysts and interns (sometimes referred to as the "proverbial back-office and compliance arms" of the investment bank"). One Citi official close to the matter told the deal that these analysts are "as expendable as office supplies, such as post-it notes, G2 ballpoint pens and hanging folders for filing cabinets." He then went on to add: "maybe more expendable than the post-it notes and G2 pens...well, definitely the G2s."

"It's not like nobody is going to lose their jobs, but our goal is to take out layers that are not client-facing," said one source. Comments like this typically translate into "no bonus" for first-years across the Street. Similar moves seem likely at other bulge brackets. Another Deal source who runs a large, global investment bank (we will refer to this executive as "DB" to preserve anonymity) responded to calls with "no comment, except for no bonus."

Citi employs 327,000 employees worldwide. The bank doesn't break out the number of employees in investment banking alone.

Before anyone freaks out, I'm fairly sure it's tongue-in-cheek. I think...

Mar 15, 2010

Was a pretty funny article the pen part is the best...

Mar 15, 2010

I dunno, from my experience as an Analyst, I'd say we ranked somewhere between the white-out and non-dairy creamer.
And the no bonus thing is for real. The only first year Analysts who get bonuses are the ones who successfully locate and baptize themselves in the pool on the roof. I hear the only door is through the CEO's office, and the key is in his desk. If you go ahead organize his desk and computer desktop for him, I hear you can get double. That may be just a rumor though.

Mar 15, 2010

Jonathan knee - IT (Thankfully, I'm moving on up this summer)

Jimbo - It was very related

monkey911 -
Yes I am still in school. I fail to see your point though, I intern at the firm.

Mar 15, 2010

Do you go to Rutgers?

Mar 15, 2010

I'll rather leave that to your imagination.

Mar 15, 2010

I remember last summer a guy jumped off balcony at Citi London into the lobby of the building, thus killing himself.

Then I read that a week later a guy at a Citi Office in Florida did the same thing.

Perhaps it is actually better to be fired than to continue working there.

Mar 15, 2010

Citi I-banking is a joke. go to a real BB firm

Mar 15, 2010

hah like what? bofa?

Mar 15, 2010

your a reatart

Mar 15, 2010

They layoffs have nothing to do with any banking roles...just back office folk. They know who brings in the revenue

Mar 15, 2010

There are too many threads on this already. Citigroup is not dying - I'd say that Lehman would "die" before Citi ever would.

Mar 15, 2010

If anything it should be argued that they are being reborn.

Mar 15, 2010

They're doing what others will start doing in a few months time / a year.

Mar 15, 2010

It is NOT going to die, you must be stupid to think that Citi is dying because of the restructuring it's doing. It's doing all these layoffs and other cost cutting because its stock price has been stagnant way too long and shareholders want a return comparable to other players in the industry. The stock price is going to move or Chucky is out of there, it's just a matter of time now...

Mar 15, 2010

They are already dead.

Mar 15, 2010

Two things. First, bankers and traders were in fact laid off. Not a ton, but some, and they were pretty senior.
Second, check out their earnings released today. Performance at the investment bank came in much better than expected, so they still have some fight left in them...

Mar 15, 2010

In fact performance at the investment bank beat everyone else on the street except for GS.
IBD advisory revenue and trading surpassed MS, JPM, LB.
Clearly now the ranking is:
GS
Citi
MS
JPM
LEH

Mar 15, 2010

have you taken size into consideration? citi is a great shop and like any shop they are good in some things and bad in others.

Mar 15, 2010

This quarter US M&A fees for Citi were behind GS, ML, MS, and CS; worldwide fees were behind GS and MS. Also have to take into consideration the fact that Citi has both a larger worldwide IBD headcount and BS than all the other banks, so you should expect it to do much better. Clearly, the BB ranking (still) is:
GS
MS
ML, Leh, Citi, CS, UBS, JPM, the difference between these pretty much being group dependent, as always.

Mar 15, 2010

Ummm...why are we only considering US fees? If you look at global fees, it goes GS, Citi, MS.
Thomson is a bad indicator of fees as the banks don't disclose fees to them. The fees in Thomson are estimates made by Thomson's own system. You have to look at advisory and underwriting revenue in the quarterly and annual reports.
For 1Q, Citi beat all firms excpet GS in advisory revenue.

Mar 15, 2010

GM had the most revenue, it must be the best car company!

Mar 15, 2010

Are you seriously comparing the auto industry to the financial services industry?

Mar 15, 2010

sleepyguyb - you'd better wake up if you want an ibanking job.
Advisory revenue measurues the quality of M&A.
And if you look at Citi banking, they are more profitable than MS, second to GS.

Mar 15, 2010
goldmansbanker:

Advisory revenue measurues the quality of M&A.
And if you look at Citi banking, they are more profitable than MS, second to GS.

Okay, I have absolutely nothing against Citi, and have quite a few friends working there, but dude, you need to stop talking out of your a**.

If we go by your logic, the quality of M&A advice received at a boutique like Evercore or Lazard would be crap compared to any universal bank.

Mar 15, 2010

I think the original poster, sleepyguyb and those two people who started two threads with the exact same title ("Is it worth it?") a mere 4 hours apart should have their posting abilities removed. Complete wastes of space and they are clearly speaking out of their asses, undoubtedly driving people who are actually in the industry and those who need genuine advice away from reading the messageboard. My two cents.

Mar 15, 2010

given that it has been a few weeks, i don't see a problem calling or emailing the recruiters...give them a buzz and ask them whats up (diplomatically of course). In my experience BB's will call you to let you know regardless of their decision...you might be a backup candidate....no way of knowing until you give them a call or they call you.

Mar 15, 2010

All hiring has been put on hold. Some first years are being denied entry to the building when they come in... sad but true...

Mar 15, 2010

Citi HR got back to me and they have put me "on hold" for FT IBD analyst hiring. Said they were only doing this with the few kids they want to give offers to (HR claimed they rejected everyone else) but can't right now due to the recent troubles we see in the news on Citi and the lack of CEO. is there anything I can do to help my chances of getting the offer?

all advice is much appreciated

Mar 15, 2010

if you have the business cards of those people you met...or other people you know at the bank who you might be close with......give them a call and tell them you've loved meeting everyone, and hope things work out for the best (i.e. you get hired). again, be diplomatic, and pose it as a question about what they think you could do to better your chances. maybe they will take a minute or two to send in an email to the recruiter on your behalf. you never know, recruiting is a crazy crazy process.

Mar 15, 2010

I heard from a friend who heard that her friend and the other FY Analysts were brought into a big conference room and fired! I'm less and less skeptical of something like that happening!

Mar 15, 2010

Markewatch is reporting a possible 45,000 layoffs. I'm really curious/worried as to how this will affect the incoming 08 analyst class?? How about in London?

Mar 15, 2010

Obviously.

Interesting how all the people on this board who talked about how Citi was up there with GS/MS have vanished.

Mar 15, 2010

Don't laugh. Seriously, you don't want Citi to be firing people. It would just put more competition on the job market place.

Mar 15, 2010

That would suck if they did because all the BBs have finished hiring for the 2008 class

Mar 15, 2010

Nope not all of them have stopped hiring. ML is still hiring in New York. And almost all the BBs are still hiring in London.
But yea 45000 unemployed would really suck. Although 45000? Maybe 4500, but still...

I want to work now! No, really. I want those 100+ hours/week.

Mar 15, 2010

no, FT analyst hiring in London has basically finished, only a few places left.

Mar 15, 2010

this would obviously affect incoming analysts??? Please elaborate...obviously it's not a good thing, but the firm would have some indication of how many spots they would have before extending offers you'd think....?

Mar 15, 2010

how much of an effect on summers for next year?

Mar 15, 2010

i think its important to keep in mind that citi's markets and banking division is only like 50-65k people, similiar in size to some of the other ib only banks. So with a number as high as 45k (which i think is on the very high end) means that a majority of these cuts will be in other parts of the bank, granted the m & b division will still be affected.

Mar 15, 2010

Yeah, not looking good for anyone at Citi right now...

Mar 15, 2010

I think this could be good for citi...

Citi acquires companies without spending the time to assess multitude of systems being used as well as cultures there. If they actually execute the "restructuring" project this time, Citi could streamline their systems and strength their cultures and values at the firm. I don't work for citi but have friends there, they definitely don't have a healthy environment. However, i don't think this will be done b/c they simply want to cut the bottom line so it'll reflect in the next couple quarters (since we all know that they are more writedowns coming).

Mar 15, 2010

PoshMonkey, it could be good for Citi in the long-term, and all that means for the big ol' world of Ibanking. Yay, the industry. That being said, it's still not going to be pretty for the people in the trenches when the pink slips start landing. All those management arbitrage situations in the 80s produced tremendous profits and several going concerns, but don't you think all the "synergies" were pretty pissed off at the time? You can cheer heads rolling, until the axe comes swinging your way.

But hey, if you can take the shoe being on the other foot (that is, finance jobs getting cut rather than manufacturing etc.) so stoically, you're a better capitalist than I.

Mar 15, 2010

Ballyho - This not a perfect world. And let me say that i don't like layoffs by any means - when it comes down to it, it's just business. Who do you think are the first ones to go? People who are not producing! (If they are not producing, they are probably not enjoy their job). No matter what industry, when business turns red (health care, financial, manuftg...remember the tech burst?), layoffs are inevitable.

Since we don't live in a perfect world, of course, there will be people who are devastated by the unexpected news. HOWEVER, keep in mind that they will most likely to receive a severance package. Some will be so happy that they are getting money to move on (retire or pursue other opportunities) and just wanted to know which lines to sign. If Citi handles the layoff correctly, people should receive a good package. And, i hope their packages are decent considering the $$$ citi has.

I don't understand your finance vs. manuftg job cuts analogy, b/c manuftg jobs are firsts to go.

Mar 15, 2010

I believe 45K is just a number that CNBC threw out, so I would take this with a grain of salt. Wouldn't be surprised to see upwards of 25-30K in cuts though.

Mar 15, 2010

London is practically closed for new hires at this point, very few places remain. Citi IBD should be fine at the junior level.

Mar 15, 2010

Comparison on bank layoffs - a bit outdated. But, read the comments towards the end of the page.

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/22/the-l...

Mar 15, 2010

shit is hitting the fan

Mar 15, 2010

I am speechless

Mar 15, 2010

This is certainly going to be an interesting next few months...

Mar 15, 2010

I can't believe this is happening...let's hope my under-performing non-US, non-BB ibank doesn't lay anyone off...yeah right!!!!!! fuck!!!!

Mar 15, 2010

Where are the layoffs concentrated?

Mar 15, 2010

I hope this all ends before 09.

Mar 15, 2010

Lay offs are happening.. only the stud perfomers are staying.. even possible recession.
Also chances the brokerage business sold to JP Morgan... Pandit new CEO has not revelaed any plan of action.. but just a dplomatic statement which mean NOTHING!

Mar 15, 2010

Holy sh!t...

Mar 15, 2010

terrible time to be graduating. what's scary is that next year might be worse with the pending recession.

Mar 15, 2010

.

Mar 15, 2010

what makes you say the next year might be worse?

Mar 15, 2010

fuck bro

Mar 15, 2010

Best choice is to go to grad school for your MBA right now. Hopefully once you are out, the market will be back on its feet.

Mar 15, 2010

Prathiba,

That is a bold faced lie. No one in Citi Investment Banking has been laid off or had their offer revoked.

All of the firings have taken place out side of traditional Investment Banking, particularly in the middle office roles. Were you lying, or were you referring to middle and back office roles? Or are you thinking about the jobs outsourced to India?

Mar 15, 2010

Would I know or would you know? I have friends who work there, who are asking for my help to get into other places, a few were in operations, but yes some were working in the investment banking side. They were called in today, and told that they should be expecting a layoff sometime pretty soon, which basically means they were giving them a month or two to find another job. Besides you are a prospective monkey, so how would you know what's happening on the inside??

Mar 15, 2010

Some (not all) prospective monkeys on this site speak and dish out advice as if they are know-it-all MDs. Lol.

Mar 15, 2010

Who else thinks its a matter of time before more people get fired/offers revoked at other firms?

Mar 15, 2010

Very true, but I GenghisKhan did say to expect announcements sometime within January which would put prathiba's comments of "1-2 months" around that time period....

Sh!t...this scary...either way

Mar 15, 2010

Prathiba,

You still have not answered my accusation. Do you know anyone who was in a product (M&A, DCM) or industry group (Communications, FIG, etc) who was laid off or had their offer revoked?

There has been no news of this, and no one from Citi has said this is true. In fact, they all said that they have heard nothing of this.

It seems much more likely that your friends are not in IBD -- any of them.

Please -- do not scare people without full knowledge.

Mar 15, 2010

Agree with Omnicron. Haven't heard anything about layoffs within IBD yet. Please tell us where your "friends" work.

Mar 15, 2010

my apologies, i checked with my friends again, a few were in fixed income, 6 of them to be precise, and 4 in operations and the rest were in trading. They told me they were investment bankers all through out, and they consider sales and trading to be part of investment banking. Anyways, I'm sorry for having raised havoc here, but this I am 100% sure of.

Mar 15, 2010

Prathiba, don't you know where your "friends" work? at least sales/trading vs IBD?

Mar 15, 2010

Prathiba - how do NOT know where these "friends" work? The fact that you continually refer to yourself and others as "I-Bankers" is almost a dead give away that you're not in the industry, as no one who is actually in banking calls themselves an "I-banker". You're writing style and english is much like the old Yinyanyon's and you have no credibility given some of your other posts about DCM and Priv Placements showing a general lack of a certain level of knowledge about the industry that you should have having been in it for a over a year.

Mar 15, 2010

Prathiba,

This board relies on credible answers. While you are of course welcome to come here seeking help, please do not claim to be in investment banking and give advice as such. My guess is that you either are not in the industry or are in a non-front office role. You need not be ashamed, just please don't lie.

Mar 15, 2010

you just lost your e-reputation. lol

Mar 15, 2010

Prathiba...get your facts and your "friends" straight

That being said there are many layoff rumors going around that should be quashed. If you do not have first person information you are not a credible source.

nystateofmind...people do call themselves I-bankers in IBD (look at my name-though it is toolish)in an egotistical attempt to distinguish themselves from retail, ops, and all other back office or "inferior" jobs.

Mar 15, 2010

alright point taken, although i personally would never refer to myself as an ibanker, nor do i hear many people within the industry actually refer to themselves as that. pretty toolish if you ask me but hey to each his own.

Mar 15, 2010

You prove you are not in retail, ops or back office jobs why the tie you are wearing. Idiot first year.

Mar 15, 2010

Are you f*$king kidding me prathiba? This huge thread about a 10% layoff of investment bankers at CITI is complete misinformation and none of the layoffs of your friends actually occurred in investment banking? I can't believe you would post such innacurate, horribly wrong information. You should feel ashamed for irresponsibly posting such huge ignorant and flat out wrong statements. Figure it out.

Mar 15, 2010

sooooo, any truth in this? or should this topic be deleted to avoid causing more coronaries.

Mar 15, 2010

I can say with certainty that there have been no analyst layoffs in Citi DCM, ECM, or S & T. Have no idea about IBD but expect similar. Having said that, there are massive layoffs on the way and it's anyone's guess as to whether they will hit analysts. It's not like analysts working there now have any special knowledge about upcoming layoffs...

Mar 15, 2010

PublicEquity1,

You are the quintessential tool. How's buying bottles at Marquee so girls will talk to you going? I am sure you must be BSD with that attitude? I hope you spend half your bonus on ferrogama loafers, hermes ties, and a rolex so you can "fit in." For those of you still in college (and as you can probably figure out), senior bankers and others wealthy people can see through any greaser in a suit. No point in putting lipstick on a pig. Tool.

Mar 15, 2010

Dear i-banker2007,

  1. Your name is possibly the most gleaming sign of a "tool" as you say.
  2. My comment clearly clearly was a sarcastic, a pun, a joke, you know?... not serious.
  3. Yes I have ferragamo loafers and a hermes ties, and not sure what you are planning on your Jefferies bonus will be, but they were no where near half of my bonus.
  4. You are a huge huge tool
Mar 15, 2010

Guys, this argument makes you both look bad. Quit before you take the focus off pratibha06.

My 2 cents.

Mar 15, 2010

oooo IT'S ON!

Mar 15, 2010

PublicEquity,

Does you boyfriend in the village think you look cute in those loafers?

I doubt you have anything coming to you this year, except maybe a pink slip. Those worried about "looking the part" will be cut, while the real bankers survive.

Too many people became bankers because it was the glamorous thing to do. By next summer we will see just who is left (but I am sure you ALWAYS wanted to be an FA at Suntrust). Tool.

  1. Your name is possibly the most gleaming sign of a "tool" as you say.
  2. My comment clearly clearly was a sarcastic, a pun, a joke, you know?... not serious.

Guess you didn't get the sarcasm either?

Tool and Idiot.

Mar 15, 2010

MY BANK IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN YOURS! OMG U DONT KNOW DCF ANALYSIS? ARE YOU GAY? YOU PROBABLY THINK WE SOLVE FOR WHACKS. RETARD. GO BACK TO YOUR DESK AT PNC YOU ASSHOLE. IM ALL ABOUT MODELS AND BOTTLES. I WILL LBO YOUR MIDDLE MARKET FACE IF YOU TALK SHIT LIKE THAT.

Mar 15, 2010

I-douche2007,

You are just very much misinformed about life. "Real Bankers" survive? Trust me, anyone on this board that is honest with themselves know perfectly well that no analysts qualify as "real bankers". We are as this site's nomenclature suggests, expensive monkeys. Also, I put in my 2 years, I got high marks, I got out to a well regarded PE fund, and I am not looking over my shoulder this afternoon to make sure some 2nd rate associate is going to drop a turn on me this evening. Who is the "tool" as you say now? Now go do your insurance company comps and come pitch me something so I can make you do more "real banker" work. You BSD you....

Mar 15, 2010

I-banker2007 - your username alone makes me just cringe. What a tool!

Mar 15, 2010

Good for you for putting you time in, though I highly doubt you have any say in any pitch. While I agree 75 of the job is little more than being an excel robot, we don't have to act like that in real life. The ferrogma loafers and hermes ties and general "Monkey Business" lifestyle is generally (with few exceptions)promoted by the most image sensitive and insecure (as you say) "bankers." A decent suit and a fucking backbone will get you much further.

IM ALL ABOUT MODELS AND BOTTLES. I WILL LBO YOUR MIDDLE MARKET FACE IF YOU TALK SHIT LIKE THAT.

"Signed and starting in July 2007" Moron. Don't talk. Ever.

Mar 15, 2010

I heard the total may reach 44 thousand layoffs for citi. I know where I am at there was alot of consolidation with positions and some pretty high up layoffs. Everyone is just holding on at this point.

I agree, being a college graduation comming out is going to be difficult. May be time to look into graduate options and ride out the storm that way. The turn around will take 2 years, I dont care what the rest of the head's are saying.

It is a mess.

Mar 15, 2010

Rumor has it that part of the cuts in the CDO group (announced today) were analysts, first-years even - can anyone confirm? Please don't post if you don't have direct knowledge...

Mar 15, 2010

As others have stated, I'm not sure how credible your information is. I go to a non-target school and 5 students have been hired for Citi's iBanking division alone this year.

Mar 15, 2010

I'm talking abut layoffs in the CDOs group. There was an article about it on bloomberg today. 30% of the group was cut. The fact that a firm is hiring does not mean that they are not laying people off, and so I'm wondering whether the rumors that some of those who were cut were analysts are true, since analysts are usually not let go as readily.

  • b
  •  Mar 15, 2010

not 30%... 30 bankers total.

Mar 15, 2010

The CDOs group has (had) about 100 people in it.

Mar 15, 2010

...

Mar 15, 2010

This is probably the most humorous thread I've seen. If bankers are really like this, I can't wait to get a job.

Mar 15, 2010

This is by far the funniest thing I have ever seen.

Mar 15, 2010

according to CNBC, Citigroup layoffs could start next week:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/22471300
anyone know how this will affect the IB?

Mar 15, 2010


as reported in the Bloomberg news:

Jan. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Citigroup Inc. plans to eliminate more than 20,000 jobs, slash its quarterly dividend and collect at least $10 billion in cash from outside investors to shore up capital eroded by subprime losses, the Wall Street Journal reported, citing unidentified people familiar with the matter.
About 6,500 of the more than 20,000 job cuts will be in the investment bank, the Journal said. The largest investor to add new capital is the Government Investment Corp. of Singapore, the report said. The Kuwait Investment Authority, Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal and at least one U.S. fund management firm are also investing in Citigroup, the Journal said.
....

Job Losses
Financial institutions eliminated more than 153,000 jobs last year, with about 86,000 related to the mortgage business, according to data compiled by Challenger Gray. That was more than triple the 50,300 jobs eliminated by the industry in 2006, the firm said.
Bank of America Corp., the second-biggest U.S. bank, said in October that it would eliminate 3,000 jobs, mostly at the corporate and investment banking unit, after about $2 billion of writedowns and trading losses in the third quarter.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&si...

Are layoffs going to continue throughout 2008 or will it end before the 1st half of 08'?

Mar 15, 2010

shake ups tend to be in divisions other than ib...looking to cut costs in some of their consumer businesses...ib should be as safe as any other place on the street

Mar 15, 2010

Actually, this new shake is creating a union between ibanking and alternative investments.Might lead to conflicts of interest.

Mar 15, 2010

Their investment banking division unit is really starting to get hot. #2 in M&A last year, behind GS, but ahead of MS, WSJ ran a big article on how good they are in M&A and Communications.