Want to get me on the phone? Here's how - a networking overview.

It's been a slow day at work, so I decided to do something useful and type up this thread with some basic networking tips. I went into my background in detail in my lateraling guide, but basically I went to a non-target for undergrad, then started at a "no-name" boutique, lateraled to a top MM as a second-year analyst, and am now in corporate development.

First, let me give a shameless plug to the WSO networking guide. I got this a few years ago when I was in undergrad, and it was the best $50 I have ever spent. This overview is not meant to replace the WSO guide, so if you're trying to break into IB, I would highly recommend getting the guide. I don't receive a referral commission for this and am just a happy customer.

Note: This overview assumes that interviews start in September and that you're able to have one phone call per banker and then meet them in-person for coffee. If interviews for whatever cycle you are in start at another time or you've unable to meet bankers in-person, adjust accordingly.

So, you're trying to break into IB and have started networking. Great. Want to get me on the phone? Here's how.

The Preparation (April)

Wait, what? I have to PREPARE for networking? Yes, you certainly do. This isn't like walking into a bar and picking up chicks.

The first step is putting together a tracker that you will use to keep track of your networking efforts. You can use Excel, Google Docs, or anything else, but I prefer Excel. You will want to keep track of who you contact, when you contacted them, the stage of networking etc. Now that your tracker is set up, start populating it with the names of banks that you are interested in working at. I would take a broad approach to this. If you list every reputable BB, MM, and EB, you should have 30 to 40 names on there. No, I will not run a CapIQ search for you.

The Search (April)

Great, so now your tracker is in place. Now it's time to find people to network with. If you have not already done so, create a LinkedIn profile (and use a professional picture, not some selfie that you took in the back of a club).

Going bank by bank in your tracker, search through LinkedIn to find bankers who you might reach out to. I would reach out to bankers across the spectrum. Analysts can give you the best insight into what your role might be on a day-to-day basis, but VPs and up are the ones with the real power to get you an interview. Start with alumni and then look for bankers with anything in common with you (e.g. you both went to a non-target). There is nothing wrong with networking with random people. Read that last sentence again. Now read it one more time. If a bank has no alumni from your school at it, just reach out to random bankers. Trust me, there are many out there who are happy to help anyone. For some reason, no one ever thinks of this.

So, now you have a list of banks and several bankers at each bank. They aren't going to be contacting you, so you need to start finding their contact information. Please, for the love of all that is good, do not cold call. I know that someone is going to reply here telling me that cold calling worked for them, but trust me, it's incredibly annoying to be sitting at your desk only to have someone randomly call you. Do not cold call. You can easily find most email address formats on the WSO Company Database. Others can be found by a simple Googling. Not sure if you have the right email address? Try an email address tester, such as MailTester.com.

The Execution (May)

You now have a list of banks and contacts with their email addresses. You're ready to go…almost.

Make sure that whatever email address you use is professional. [email protected] is what I would suggest. You do not need to use your school email. In fact, I would not since Gmail has a much better archiving feature than what most schools use.

Now, start teeing up your emails. I have typed up a few templates in various threads on WSO, so you can search for those, but I would (again) suggest getting the WSO networking guide, which has several templates in it. Please, whatever you do, type up a professional email with correct grammar. English is not my first language, so I can sympathize with others, but please, act as if you care. I'm not your bruh, girlfriend, or twice-removed cousin. Please be professional, but do not call me "Mr." (or "Ms." If I were female). We're both adults, so act like it.

I would suggest reaching out to one person at the bank at a time. So, if your list has 30 banks on it, and you have at least one contact for each bank, you should have 30 emails typed up and saved in Gmail (or whatever you're using). Now that you have your emails ready to go, you can start sending them. I always sent my emails on Tuesdays at 10:00 AM because I figured that people were too busy on Mondays and too busy at 9:00 AM. Unless you're sending emails at 2:00 AM (please don't do that), I actually don't think time or day matters.

One thing that many students ask about is whether or not to include your resume. If you have prior experience, such as an internship, I would. If not, leave the resume off. A resume is a good way to provide context and can increase my chance of responding to you. If I see that you've had two boutique internships or spent a summer at GS, I will be more likely to reply to you because I know that you're serious and have a realistic shot at breaking in. This is not to say that if you're a freshman or just late getting into the game that I won't reply. If that is the case, however, just leave the resume off.

The Wait (May)

So, you just sent out your emails and are eagerly anticipating a response. To your horror, you see that a few of your emails bounce back. Maybe some people left the bank, but haven't updated their LinkedIn, but most likely, you have the wrong email address format. Some banks grandfather employees with longer tenure into new email address formats, so if you're emailing an MD, he/she could very well have an email address format different from the analysts'. Or, the bank throws you a curveball by using a middle initial in its email address format (I'm looking at you, JP freaking Morgan). You may be able to find the banker's real email, but if not, that's fine- just find another contact and move on.

So…you wait…and wait…and wait. When should you follow up? Should you call them? Show up at their office? Whoa, calm down there. You're networking with bankers, not Victoria Secret models. Wait a week (a FULL SEVEN DAYS) and then shoot out a follow up. Make it short and sweet and to the point. If you do not get a response to your follow up, move on. Maybe the banker is busy, maybe the banker just turned in his/her two weeks notice, maybe the banker was arrested for murdering another banker with an ax. There are many more bankers for you to contact. Please learn some social cues :)

The Contact (May)

So, you're about to take a nap instead of going to class (c'mon, we know you do it) when your phone buzzes. A banker replied to your email!

Some bankers might say that they don't have time, might forward your email to HR and CC you, or provide some other non-committal, "don't bother me" type response. That's fine, it's their right. Just move on. Chances are that unless you're exclusively emailing alumni, your response rate will hover around 10%. That's fine. Remember, you're emailing some of the busiest people in the world asking for 15 minutes of their time. And they are strangers who don't know you to boot.

So, anyway, the next step is setting up a time to talk. Please don't reply with something like "I can talk whenever". YOU are the one who contacted ME. Suggest some reasonable times. No, 7:30 AM before your first class is not reasonable. No, I will not get on the phone at 2:00 AM because you think that makes you cool for asking. 7:00 PM is usually when my senior bankers started leaving, so suggest something around then, but do end your email with a "I can be flexible" line.

The Phone Call (May)

So, you finally got me on the phone. Congrats. Don't blow it now.

So, this is going to be just a regular phone call, right? Wrong. Don't take this call on the subway, at Five Guys, or while you're getting lit. Please, have some decency and make me want to help you further. Take the call in a quiet room with good phone reception. If you have poor reception and drop the call, I'll probably understand, but the banker in me will wonder, "Did this kid really not test the connection out before this call?".

So, what now? What do you ask? Well, you would know if you had already gotten the WSO networking guide ;) I would prepare questions with the intent of not using them. That means have some questions thought out, preferably unique ones to my background or bank, but be ready to go with the flow; try to have a conversation instead of raddling off questions. And, please, have some social decency. Don't ask me about Trump, how my bank will handle regulation, why my bank just paid a fee, etc. Also, make sure that your questions cannot be easily answered online. If I take 15 minutes to talk to you and you ask me who my bank's competitors are or what I do in my free time, I won't be happy.

There are two must-ask questions. After you've had a few minutes of conversation, you need to ask for advice. This is code for "get me an interview". Most bankers know this and will give you advice and then finish that with an offer to pass your resume along and/or connect you with other bankers. If they do not offer to connect you with anyone, ASK. Feel free to print this paragraph out and frame it. It is that important.

The whole point of networking is to build a network. The only way to do the effectively is for others to introduce you to their network. Plus, the more people you know at a bank, the more can go to bat for you to get you an interview and the less you are affected if one of these people leaves their bank. Once you've had your conversation, asked for advice, and asked for references, it's time to go. Please don't keep me on the phone for 30+ minutes. My associate is already wondering where I am and why I haven't changed slide 12's header bar from 5, 84, 139 blue to 5, 84, 142 blue. Finish by thanking me for my time and asking me if you can follow up.

Some people tend to ask whether or not you should prepare for this first call by studying technicals or anything. I personally think that it's a complete dick move to ask someone interview questions of any type on a networking call, but you should be prepared because some bankers will. So, read through an interview guide or two and be ready.

As far as emailing referrals go, send them a similar email to the one that you sent the first banker, but mention that that first banker referred you/gave you this second banker's name. If I know that the analyst sitting next to me referred you, I will 100% of the time reply.

Post-Phone Call (May – July)

Hopefully you now have a list of contacts at every bank that you would be interested in working at. Since you took my advice and asked for referrals, you even have multiple contacts per bank, and you've talked to all of them. Now what?

Once you've had a phone call, the next step is setting up some time for coffee. If you live in or close to NY or some other financial hub, this should be easy. Wait a month after your phone call and then email bankers for some time for coffee.

If you go to school somewhere else, I would consider taking a networking trip to NY. This is what I did. I spent a week at a buddy's place in NY (this was before Airbnb, so it's even easier to go now if you don't know anyone in NY) and scheduled three to four bankers for coffee per day. A few bankers cancelled last minute, but other than that, it went well. Please have some respect and show up in business casual. I don't expect you to wear a suit (please don't), but if you show up in anything less, I'll assume you're not serious about the job. Ladies, I apologize, but I am no expert in women's fashion, so I would suggest Googling "female business casual" or something of the like. Please don't show up in a mini-dress (yes, this has happened before).

Ok, so now you're in NY, have several coffee meetings lined up, have some proper clothing with you, and are ready to go. Make sure to bring a notepad and pen with you. You probably won't take notes, but it shows that you're serious. I also might not remember who you are, so bring a few extra copies of your resume (printed on regular paper, not card stock…c'mon) so that I don't have to awkwardly ask what your background is again.

And, when I offer to pay for your coffee, don't play this "no, I'll pay for it" game. Offer to pay for it and then move on once I insist. I'm making six figures. Don't make me an asshole too by letting some broke college kid buy me coffee.

The Ask (August)

Great, so now we've done the networking tango. You sent me a cold email, I replied, we got on the phone, we met for coffee, we both feigned interest in each other. So, now you need to reap what you sowed: ask me for an interview.

Whoa there, buddy. We're still doing the tango, so you can't just straight-up ask me for an interview. Say something like "With recruiting season coming up, I was wondering how I could best position myself". This is usually where a banker will offer to pass along your resume, talk to HR, or even come back with some phone interview times.

The End

So, you've cold emailed bankers, received replies, had phone calls and coffee with the bankers, and even got the bankers to get you interviews. You're done! You've completed networking! Achievement unlocked! Right? Wrong. Networking is not an end-goal, but more of a journey. A network is like a relationship that needs to be maintained. If I helped you get an interview, I put some serious time and effort into you. Don't be rude and just drop off of the face of the Earth. Shoot me an email and update me on how recruiting went, even if you declined an offer from my bank or went to a more prestigious bank. A few months into your job, shoot me an update. Maybe something that I said helped you. Let me know. You get the point. If all you do is use people for their connections and do not try to build real, genuine relationships, you're missing the point. I don't expect a college kid to be able to help me or to repay me for my time, but at least give me the satisfaction of knowing that I helped someone and that I made a difference.

And if you got your job because some banker helped you get an interview, don't be an asshole. When a college kid asks you for help, pay it forward.

--

I am sure that I forgot something, so feel free to ask any questions below. I enjoy the anonymity that I have on WSO, so I will have to politely ask that you do not PM me asking me to connect via phone, but again, I am more than happy to answer questions here. Please post them in this thread instead of PMing me them so that others can benefit from the answers.

Mod Note (Andy): Best of 2016, this post ranks #8 for the past year

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Comments (205)

Best Response
Nov 17, 2016 - 7:31pm

Thanks Sil.

Mailtester.com is great.

By the way, you mentioned reaching out to as many people in a bank here and in your lateraling guide. Did you ever get any negative for reaching out two people, with the same role, in the same office?

**How is my grammar? Drop me a note with any errors you see!**
  • 11
Nov 18, 2016 - 5:34am

Do you think it'd be ok to call the next day or 2 if you already have their card & made a good impression? I mean I'm sure a lot of people here meet bankers or HR people through OCR or Firm events. When networking for internships at no-names I always found it easier to get on the phone since 1) Much faster and 2) More direct/shows initiative.

Ultimately, who can actually push resumes? My guess would be associates & up.

Also, any funny rejection emails? I've gotten unlucky once with a pissed off trader.

Nov 18, 2016 - 1:11pm

I would never call unless told to do so. Professionals, even those outside of IB, are generally busy working and not just sitting around. Calling instead of emailing is like marking an email with high importance: it has a time and place, but most of the time, you're just telling the other person to ignore everything they're doing and focus on you.

EDIT: I'm on my phone and forgot to reply to your other questions, my bad. Anyone can push a resume, as in get it in front of HR for serious consideration, but only a senior banker could realistically walk into HR's office, say "this guy/gal needs an interview", and be completely certain that that candidate would get an interview.

I got a pissed off MD once who rejected me via email because she was mad that I asked for an extension to the offer. She was pretty unprofessional and I ended up getting a better position, but it was still a downer at the time.

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Nov 18, 2016 - 9:48pm
Sil:

I got a pissed off MD once who rejected me via email because she was mad that I asked for an extension to the offer. She was pretty unprofessional and I ended up getting a better position, but it was still a downer at the time.


Tobin and Co?
GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."
  • 5
Nov 18, 2016 - 2:03pm

Redacted sorry :(

^ is that awkward- its been 9 months
Or should I just send a linkedin request to break the ice?

**How is my grammar? Drop me a note with any errors you see!**
Nov 18, 2016 - 1:31pm

I know it's a very minor point, but what is your opinion on email addresses.

Currently mine is in the format of XYZ123 as my first name is very common (think John, Mike, James) and my last name is also common (Smith, Johnson, all of the Colours).

I'm sure it's not a big deal, but would you recommend trying to get another email address other than [email protected]

Nov 18, 2016 - 4:38pm

Regarding attaching your resume on the first go, I think it's really important to attach your resume if you have a solid resume from a non-target.

I reached out to a lot of people (non-alumni) and I'm from a non-target, and I think the main reason that a lot of them responded to me was because my resume looked decent. This doesn't necessarily mean having a BB IBD internship (or even a boutique), but decent content with strong formatting and a high GPA should be enough to get you a few extra responses. I highly recommend attaching your resume.

Thanks for the post Sil, really appreciate it.

Nov 18, 2016 - 5:02pm

Fantastic post.

Your point on reaching out and networking with random people cannot be emphasized enough. Some of the most helpful/useful contacts I made during my job search was by doing this.

Most people are happy to help if you ask the right way.

Nov 18, 2016 - 5:11pm

Nice write-up. I've never been good at networking, so far have always gotten jobs through other means, but it's something I want to get better at

Only thing I'll add though is that while the above is one good blueprint to use as a starting point for a person at one particular stage, there is a lot of variability in the steps I can imagine, even just in that framework. I say this because it's true of any blueprint, for anything, since a perfect blueprint doesn't quite exist given the immense diversity of situations and people. I think the important thing is to be organized and thoughtful, and to understand why something works and why it doesn't, and to keeping experimenting and taking chances without straying too far off course

Nov 18, 2016 - 9:48pm

Great post.

I'm not in IB, but great advice. Reaching out to people now in the RE industry all your points are spot on. I'm getting pretty good returns on my responses and I follow pretty much what you're saying. I love your point about NOT cold calling. Unless you are calling a guy you know has an assistant to answer or if it's a small firm with a receptionist, do not call. Seriously. You're going to have to spend at least 30 secs briefly explaining yourself before even asking a time to chat. At the high level of these guys, it's highly unlikely someone is not currently in the middle of something.

Also to add, I've seen a lot of people on this forum say to not attach resume. At least from my experience (again not in IB but I'm sure similar if they respond or not) the few times I tested to not attach I either did not get a response or they responsed with for me to send over my resume. I don't understand why you wouldn't. Who cares if " they then feel you're just asking for a job". Newsflash. These guys aren't morons. They've been around the block and know the game. Attaching a resume shows background context and what you've been doing.

Nov 19, 2016 - 11:38am

It's never too early to start networking. Having a relationship with your network over the long term is beneficial. Remember the concept of sunk costs from economics class? Despite knowing of this, bankers don't apply it. If a banker has spent many hours helping you out, they are more likely to keep helping you because their thought goes "well, I've already helped this kid so often, so I might as well keep helping". Hopefully that makes sense. Good luck.

Nov 18, 2016 - 9:57pm

This guide is money. +SB'ed you for the amazing advice and the VS model reference from my other post.

A major point often ignored by college kids: always be listening rather than asking questions for the sake of it, or noting down essentially everything on a notepad. I decided to meet with you to have a conversation, not to hold a press conference. Listening is a skill very much lacking in students these days.

Also, try ending the conversation (final question before thanks) in an informal non-career related note, say like common interests or something. It will aid him in remembering your name during follow ups.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."
  • 1
Nov 19, 2016 - 1:00pm

Sil this is more related to the job but just something I thought I should mention. If you somehow get an interview at a bank you don't have contacts do you think it'd be ok to email 2-3 bankers there because you had mentioned something similar in the lateraling guide.

Nov 19, 2016 - 2:27pm

BillBelichick37, I'm not 100% sure what you mean. If interviews have already started, it's unlikely that anyone, other than a senior banker, can get you an interview. Even then, there's going to have to be a pretty good reason for this. I personally would not ask because the question then becomes: if you really wanted to work at this bank, why didn't you network beforehand or apply online in the specified time period?

Nov 20, 2016 - 12:10am

Sadly, I've done everything mentioned in the article but still ended up with no offer just because I'm a senior going into FT recruiting with a boutique internship, and also happen to be an international student; all firms that sponsor Visa are hyper competitive and no-name boutiques don't sponsor. It's so painful to lose your dream just like that after trying so hard and doing all the right things, but I guess that's fate, and now I'll have to go make up stories on why I want to do sales/marketing/etc...

Nov 20, 2016 - 3:36am

You do realize the days of getting FT at a bb without an internship are over right? I mean really your only chance of working ft at a MS is to either intern there or an equally impressive BB/EB/etc. CS said during a call that their entire FT pool comes from their interns. Also, I don't get one bit why internationals want to work in NYC so bad because you can get an equally impressive experience in London, Hong Kong, etc.

Nov 20, 2016 - 9:31pm

I mean, the landscape only changed this year because the market went down - many students were still able to get BB FT with a boutique internship last year in offices across America. Going to FT recruiting with only last year as an example I was not as predictive as I can be, and I also overestimated the number of boutiques willing to sponsor, so I admit that my whole recruiting strategy was wrong. It's quite understandable though why internationals would want to work in the U.S. - its regulatory system is much more mature than the emerging markets, and there are less hand-holding with clients in the U.S., providing more learning space on the technical stuff, so an experience in Hong Kong, for example, isn't necessarily to be equally impressive as one in the U.S.

Nov 22, 2016 - 10:18am

Wow, you've been much more helpful post-transition than I. Making me feel like a slacker....maybe I'll get to it during the holidays. SB's for you and you'll have my vote for member of the year.

I used an excel tracker as well. It is amazing to me how many people scoff at this advice, but if you do not need a spreadsheet to track your networking progress you are not casting a wide enough net. Pure and simple.

Nov 22, 2016 - 10:28am

Great post, "Sil . I remember when I wanted to go down the IB path and was networking from a non-target.

Many things you said were especially true, but what I've held closest is that networking does not suddenly end because you hit your end goal. I've actually become very good friends with a PoC at one of the banks I interviewed. Being able to strike a genuine interest in the person is critical. (I assist with campus sessions for my company now, and I say this being on both sides of the coin). I am far more likely to help someone who I like and want to see succeed than someone I don't.

...
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Nov 22, 2016 - 10:31am

I'm in sales. I really appreciate this.

I can't wait to use this to bait and switch my way to pitching my penny stocks to all of Wall Street.

Array
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Nov 22, 2016 - 10:37am

Great post Sil. I'd like to back up what dartzrip said about attaching a resume - when I was networking for both IB and consulting, I had a number of people say the only reason they responded was because I had a good resume. Then again I had solid grades and relevant work experience. Personally if somebody doesn't send me their resume the first thing I always ask for is the resume and then preface it with "if it looks good then we'll talk", otherwise I send them some templates and move on.

And yeah, never start with a phone call unless told to do so.

Nov 22, 2016 - 2:15pm

Slightly off topic, but what is your view on networking once you're out of college?

In college it is common (even expected) that reach out to people with the intention of securing a job. Once out in the real world, it seems people are not be as receptive to a random LinkedIn invite or cold email from someone who's not a student.

Would you take the same approach to networking as someone who is already working, but say wants to move on to a different firm/industry somewhere down the line?

Nov 22, 2016 - 4:55pm

I think this is an area where someone more senior to me could offer much better advise.

Networking once you're out of schools seems harder, but it's just more realistic. The networking you do in college is largely focused on you contacting someone and hoping they help you get a job. Once you're outside of school, networking is very much a two-way street. Networking changes from a game of trying to get others to help you to you trying to build a meaningful professional relationship with someone else.

Something that many of my friends do is attend networking events. ACG regularly has cocktail hours in my city. Intralinks and Merrill frequently have happy hours for clients that can act as networking events. I am still trying to figure this out on my own, so again, someone with more years of experience probably knows post-college networking better than I do.

Nov 23, 2016 - 9:24am

Agreed on it being a two-way street. I think the toughest part is figuring out how you can help someone that might be much more senior than you.

Hadn't thought much about industry networking events. Something definitely worth checking out.

Nov 23, 2016 - 8:16pm

This is awesome, but almost borderline creepy IMO. But hey, whatever works...different strokes for different folks.

Nov 23, 2016 - 8:36pm

Hi,

So I completed my superday at BAML NY (Friday) and the recruiter called next week (Monday) saying that my decision would be made in the next 48 hours. It is now Wednesday evening and I haven't got a call back. Should I wait or send an email, and now or after thanksgiving. Mostly it's a rejection but I would still want to get it over with.

Nov 30, 2016 - 7:28am

I'm in middle of a large networking campaign.

This is gold.

I filtered linkedin by those who were once with my current employer and then various combinations of Target MBA programs, Firms etc.

Went deeper to find LP's to network with.

Play the long game and add value. You'll get good responses. Let the rest roll off your back.

Nov 30, 2016 - 9:51am

Great post. The only thing I would add is that despite there being a structured timeline for recruiting don't wait until April to start, the best thing to do is start right now and make developing your network an ongoing process. The reality is that this industry isn't a meritocracy.... so your network =net worth.

Dec 2, 2016 - 7:58pm

Thank you Sil!

I'm going through the trial-error networking stage. Career adviser at school recommended The 2-hour Job Search by Steve Dalton. It states that you don't need to customize reach-out emails. Generic ones are enough. His point is people who are willing to help would reply as long as it's reasonably polite while those who don't like to help wouldn't reply even if you customize, so why bother spend the time.

What do you think?

Dec 15, 2016 - 3:33pm

Thank you for this guide Sil!

I am a sophomore at a non-target school. I have been struggling with even getting alumni to respond to my emails at the big banks. I was wondering if winter break is a good time to reach out to Investment Bankers? My career advisor at school said that this is the time of the year bankers go on vacation and I should try to reach out some time in the spring/after a few weeks in January. Thoughts?

Dec 15, 2016 - 4:07pm

Your career advisor is wrong. I don't know many analysts who took a vacation at all during their two years in IB. You really should button-up your email, though, if you are struggling getting even alumni to respond to emails. Your overall response rate will probably hover around 10%, but with alumni, it really should be closer to 90%.

Jan 3, 2017 - 9:31pm

Question: I go to a non-target and there are very few alumni in the industry. I have reached out to many random bankers. I would say about 8 out of 10 don't every reply. Is that normal? I tell myself maybe they're busy or don't go on linkedin that often, so I don't feel bad about it. I'm just curious, could it possible backfire against me? I really want to be in XYZ group at ABC bank, and lets say I reach out to 3 people from that group and only one replied. When they're discussing candidates is it possible for the people who didn't respond to me remember that I reached out to them on linkedin and think that I am annoying?

Jan 4, 2017 - 4:33pm

Great post, Sil.

While I still disagree on cold calling, this guide is perfect for someone looking to get into IBD.

Minor thing, I would be careful attaching resumes, particularly at BB firms. They have pretty sophisticated spam filters that an attachment can set off (I've lost many quotes this way).

I would also recommend Zoominfo for contact information, it's free and amazingly accurate(you would be surprised how many emails don't follow the standard bank format). Also, I would recommend tracking your emails- it's a really great way to separate people who don't care and people who just haven't had the time to reply.

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Jan 6, 2017 - 6:58pm

Thank you for the insightful post. This definitely offers a great overview on how to become the best at networking and realistic chances of getting responses from bankers.

You're walking around blind without a cane, pal. A fool and his money are lucky enough to get together in the first place. Gordon Gekko
Apr 2, 2017 - 8:38pm

Quick question:, would it be appropriate to meet up with contacts in April? I am in SF for Spring Break, which is where I'd like to work next SA cycle and eventually FT and see the most productive use of my free time to meet up with my contacts. However is meeting with them this early, going to hurt me in recruiting because they won't have as fresh of a memory of me?

Also, how should we treat these coffees? Should it be similar to the phone calls and have several questions prepared?

Apr 2, 2017 - 10:02pm

CHECK6, that's fine. They won't forget you, but make sure to make a good impression. I would have some questions prepared, but you need to have a conversation. I cannot stress this enough. Don't rattle off questions. Pretend you're on a date. If you ask the chick what she's studying in school and she mentions engineering, are you going to start asking what type of music she likes? No, you'll ask what type of engineering, how she likes engineering, etc. Make sense?

Next time, make sure to reply to my original post or tag me in your reply. Otherwise, I will not know that you replied to this thread and cannot help you unless I happen to look in here.

Apr 3, 2017 - 12:36pm

Sil Thank you for the response. Of course it isn't going to be question to question, only go onto the next question if there is no more to expand on the previous discussion/question. I hope to give a good impression

Sorry about the tagging thing, will do that from now onwards. Thanks again.

Apr 21, 2017 - 9:12am

Can someone explain how this process might change for S&T? The only thing I can think of is it would be much harder to set up the face to face meetings as traders can't really leave the desk for a coffee chat. Maybe try to get them to invite you to visit at the office?

Apr 21, 2017 - 12:45pm

Would you say that this technique works for industries outside of IB as well? I did a similar thing with VC and it worked out reasonably well considering the barriers of entrance. This was a great post!

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:02pm

Basic Guide to Networking (Originally Posted: 04/15/2013)

A few guys have pinged/emailed etc asking for a basic guide to networking at events (beyond the cold emailing template) with that lets go ahead and start (fairly long).

Items Needed For Your Career Fairs/Networking Events

1) Dress Professionally. The trick to dressing professional is to make sure your clothing fits appropriately, the colors should be rather bland since you'll be at networking events with a lot of type A personalities. Black/Grey/Navy blue suits and White/blue button up t-shirts that fit well. No baggy arms no parachute pants. Put together and appropriate.

2) Hard copies of your one page resume. Simply pick up a Padfolio and carry at least twenty hard copies of your one pager. Do not simply run around and hand them to people you need to approach each table/desk and give them the quick pitch. With that said, if the desk is entirely crammed and the event is ending, slip your resume in the pile as a hail-mary approach. This will likely not work but if you have a sharp deadline and resumes lying around, slip it into the pile if they have one set up.

  1. Target your bankers. Attempt to find a person by themselves, show up early and get there before thousands of people are surrounding everyone from the said firm. If the event starts at 8:00am, get there before 8:00am. The reason why is at these events the desks tend to be swarmed with thousands of people who hope to break into banking.

The Basic Pitch

"Hi I am Name and I'm interested in your bank because of reason. I am graduating in [year] and am interested in working in [group] and believe my experience in Blank may make me a good fit. Do you mind giving me some information on [question about bank, be it a deal they did or what product/industry groups they have at the firm]"

Ideally with the conversation sparked they may ask you for your resume rather quickly or at least give you a few minutes to answer your questions. Now it's about holding the conversation.

  1. Move to Personal Experiences. At these events you're more likely than not meeting highly competitive type A personalities and your goal is to get them to open about their experiences.They will likely respond positively to intelligently asked personal questions regarding their career. So once the basic ice is broken choose one of the following questions to keep the gears flowing.
  • "Thank you for the information do you mind giving me an example of a deal or project you worked on recently in X group" (notice here we've assumed you learned what group he/she works in).

  • "I don't think I caught what school you graduated from (if they didn't mention it) and if you don't mind I would like to know what made you decide to work for [insert bank name]" (this is more of a personal connection question).

  • "(if they snag your resume) Do you mind giving me some pointers on what is currently lacking on my resume that would increase my chances in working for your firm?" (this one is borderline brown-nosing so be careful here and basically the goal is to nicely ask for any guidance in improving your shot because his/her opinion is of importance to you.

  1. Jot down the name. Assuming the conversation is flowing relatively well and he/she is at least slightly impressed with your professionalism don't forget to get his/her name.

But if the rapport is good the mark will be glad to give you a rough indication where he's from and will in all likelihood ask where are you from. Ramble and ramble on. Try not to move to the next stage for at least 2 minutes.

"I'm sorry but I don't think i caught your name?" now reach out and shake his/her hand.

Now, more likely than not they will hand you a business card and you can go for a finish up on the conversation. Lets say his last name is spelled oddly. You ask "Great thank you, hmm (attempt to speak last name) where is that from?

Now you've crossed into personalized questions and you only want to do this with someone where you believe the rapport is positive.

  1. End the Interaction. While the above steps seem like they may be taking quite a bit of time it should only last a couple of minutes or so.

"Thank you for your time, I know you're very busy so it was great talking with you. Good luck with the rest of the (Event name) and I hope you don't have to work all night" finish interaction.

Repeat the above.

Notes: If the interaction is going very well feel free to keep pushing and developing more rapport. Also if you feel it went very well you can send a quick thanks to their email address a couple of days later.

That's the jist. Feel free to add other ideas as needed but the above is what would be recommended at such events.

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:04pm

For career fairs, develop a list of the firms that you want to speak with and get there early. Once these events get started, the big-name firms tend to have long lines that will suck up a good bit of your time (not to mention how disposable you look when fighting with many of your peers to speak to a rep).
Also, the reps are getting tired of hearing the same pitches toward the end of the day... you're better off getting in ahead of the crowd.

If you can arrange any type of introduction e.g., from a past intern at xyz bank, you're giving yourself an advantage.

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:05pm

southern tide:
For career fairs, develop a list of the firms that you want to speak with and get there early. Once these events get started, the big-name firms tend to have long lines that will suck up a good bit of your time (not to mention how disposable you look when fighting with many of your peers to speak to a rep).
Also, the reps are getting tired of hearing the same pitches toward the end of the day... you're better off getting in ahead of the crowd.

If you can arrange any type of introduction e.g., from a past intern at xyz bank, you're giving yourself an advantage.

Correct sir point number 3 in preparation.

Just like preparing for a presentation for class, you should be prepared with a few quick questions (and or pitch) for each bank you attempt to talk to.

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:07pm

Last Minute NETWORKING Tips (Originally Posted: 03/13/2013)

Tomorrow I leave for a Freshman program at a BB, and I wanted to know if you guys have any networking tips for me?

I have completed the BIWS Networking Toolkit, so I have been reviewing that, and I plan to get as many business cards as I can, and try to build friendships, which I obviously want to use to obtain an internship hopefully my sophomore summer.

Does anyone have any advice I can use in building these friendships, if so, can you please help me out?

Thank you in advance for your help!

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:13pm

Networking, How to go from connecting to "the ask" (Originally Posted: 05/26/2017)

Hey everyone,

I am currently working at a small boutique investment bank, and I am extremely interested in pursuing opportunities in the EB/MM/BB space. I have been reaching out to different alumni at different banks I am interested in. My main question or concern whats the appropriate way to reach back out to a contact and use this connection to be considered for full-time recruitment.

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:15pm

7 Step Guide to Networking: Guaranteed Results (Originally Posted: 07/05/2013)

  1. Be an interesting person
  2. Find some people who work in the field in which you would like to work
  3. Contact these people
  4. Have a conversation with them
  5. Demonstrate your value
  6. Follow-up with them
  7. Ask for their help

You're welcome.

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:16pm

Trolling??

In all seriousness, number 5 is the most difficult. I see myself as hard-working and smart, guys who I networked with just wanted to have delightful conversation with and potentially hit on me. I want tangible results (interview, offer, etc) but they just want a little fling. It's frustrating! >_

The Auto Show
Jun 15, 2017 - 2:19pm

'Demonstrate value' is a pretty broad statement though, and can vary for different folks as not everyone finds the same things valuable...

Even though I'm just an adorable little chimp, the only reason I would go out of my way to try helping someone is if I liked them as a person.

Then again I'm pretty bad at "networking" so I'm not the ideal source for advice on the subject, lol.

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:20pm

misscurious:

You lost a lot of people at step one.

Join a Rock n Roll band and/or take up surfing. Keep doing this for at least 6 months and you are guaranteed to witness some budding genuine personality. Unlike the Top MBA programs that Brady & Co. are so fascinated with, music and the ocean actually do possess supernatural metaphysical powers that help the practitioners undergo metamorphosis so that they may emerge stronger and with mad swagger.

Too late for second-guessing Too late to go back to sleep.
  • 1
Jun 15, 2017 - 2:21pm

huanleshalemei:

Trolling??

In all seriousness, number 5 is the most difficult. I see myself as hard-working and smart, guys who I networked with just wanted to have delightful conversation with and potentially hit on me. I want tangible results (interview, offer, etc) but they just want a little fling. It's frustrating! >_

They clearly see your value if they are hitting on you. Just ask for what you want.

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:23pm

You can deconstruct just about anything and make it seem easy.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."
Jun 15, 2017 - 2:24pm

SirTradesaLot:

huanleshalemei:

Trolling??

Definitely not. This is exactly how to effectively network to get a job.

Seriously, I don't have a rolodex of vip contacts or portable clients, and have no interest in bringing my relationship with the guys I networked with beyond professional (most of the time), tell me how to generate 'guaranteed results'~ After all, not everyone is as nice as Sirtrades XD

The Auto Show
Jun 15, 2017 - 2:25pm

streetwannabe:

You can deconstruct just about anything and make it seem easy.

I never said it was easy. This kind of thing is like sales, it's simple to conceptualize, but much more difficult to execute. I think the people who complain about not knowing how to network are like dieters....everyone knows they should lay off that extra donut or should make that extra connection, but not everyone does. Knowing what to do and actually doing something are two entirely different realms.
Jun 15, 2017 - 2:28pm

I did this and got my dream job.

Now can I have a 7-step guide on how to get girls?

kthx

"Mr. Perkins poses an extreme risk to the market when drunk."
Jun 15, 2017 - 2:29pm

Great Minds Think Alike - How Effective Networking Works on WallSt (Originally Posted: 03/12/2017)

The Secret by Rhonda Byrne hinges on the idea of "Likes attract likes." Yes, this is where all of us Engineers and Science types scream "Bullshit!!!" because we know opposites attract and likes repel. But the affinity of people is not electromagnetism but a, and no homo here, marriage of true minds.

Being an avid reader of success stories, because my life sucked most of the time, as per Hollywood and the normal social standards, it certainly helps to see and experience the success of others vicariously. WSO is filled with such success stories like the one Chief Ape WallStreetOasis.com posted on LinkedIn recently. (Like, share, comment on LinkedIn with your network who wants their foot in the door to WallSt)

We are attracted to success and successful people are attracted to others who are successful. It's all about who you know and less so what you know to get there 95% of the time. As is with the story linked above, Cold Email and Coffee are all ways to get noticed so you can be tapped on the shoulder for the next best thing.

Question:

For those of you who've made it but are hungry for the next level:

1) What networking techniques do you use to most effectively grow meaningful connections and connect with other link minded individuals?

2) How would you do it differently 5-10 years ago knowing what you know today?

3) What activity or event yields the best returns for the high quality connections?

I wrote a 400 word article, costs 1.3 mins reading at 300wpm, over at LinkedIn about reaching out to like-minded individuals. Take a look if you want my perspective on how I think this networking game works. Link is below.

Reference:
Great Minds Think Alike

  • 3
Jun 15, 2017 - 2:32pm

Anyone have any good networking tips? (Originally Posted: 06/26/2016)

I am looking for anything here. I have been reaching out and have had a decent amount of success and met with about ten analysts. But, there are people who tell me that, realistically, you will need at least ten contacts at any bank in order to get an offer there, and they can't all be analysts - some will have to have a little more pull than that. At that rate it seems like I have no chance. I am not sure that anyone can know for a fact that you need that many contacts or that you need to know upper level employees, but I think there is truth to it.

Does anyone have any tips that will allow me to find more email addresses that I can reach out to? Any ideas for getting in touch with more upper level employees? Any advice at all?

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:33pm

Your are approaching this terribly wrong. Networking isn't so much a quantity game as it is quality. However, with that being said, it is incredibly important to get to know as many people as possible. My point is, you could talk to every single person at a bank, ask the same generic questions to all of them, and end up nowhere. It is vital to be impressionable, and develop relationships. This whole idea of having to talk to "at least 10 people" to get an offer is inaccurate. At the end of the day, when it comes time to make hiring decisions, someone that has a great relationship with someone influential in the hiring decision (and assuming they performed well in interviews) will be 10x more likely to get a job than someone who mass emailed every analyst to ask them what they like about banking, and where they see themselves in 5 years. Quality > Quantity.

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:34pm

What he said. Your goal isn't to know everyone. What you NEED is to have at least one person with a good reputation at the firm who is willing to put their own reputation on the line and be an advocate for you. The higher up in the food chain the better is a general rule but the gatekeeper may vary.

Let me use one example to illustrate my point

If some of you all recognize who I am talking about I would appreciate your discretion here.....in some instances it may be as low as an associate or analyst. At one BB firm I've encountered NOBODY, and I mean nobody, from my school gets an interview without first getting through one of the junior level alumni who is considered a rising star there. You can't even meet with them at an event without this person finding out about it and getting in touch with you. In this particular instance it's not the VP's and MD's you need to win over. It's this gatekeeper because said VP's and MD's run to him/her first when deciding.

I was able to make it to a final round interview with this firm because, while I wouldn't really consider this person a "good" contact, I at least didn't screw anything up. At another firm I have very good contacts at higher levels who weren't able to get me much because all their pull is over business operations and not hiring.

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:35pm

Networking Effectively (Originally Posted: 04/26/2017)

I am going to an event in London during October, it is for undergraduates who want to know more about sales & trading and Investment Banking. There will be some industry experts there giving speeches and talks with also the chance to network. So i am just wondering what is the best way for a student to network with already established bankers. Also is it a good idea to bring a resume with me or business cards?

Thanks
Stephen

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:36pm

Forget about the business cards. I've never understood why students have these. Bring many copies of your resume. Use REGULAR printer paper. Don't be that guy. Finally, act like a normal human being. Networking sessions always seem to bring the weirdness out of college students. Just act normal and try to have a conversation with these professionals. They're not gods, but rather ordinary people, just like you and me. Keep your conversations short and finish them by asking them for a business card. Only give them your resume if they ask.

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:37pm

Networking: How did you do it? (Originally Posted: 06/18/2017)

I know there are tons of subjects on this topic, but how did you really do it? I have went through this process where I look through linkedin find alumnis from my school, send out emails and had a short conversation over the phone.. But nothing materialized.

How did you get to a point where you were able to keep in constant contact, and get the other person to help you/ guide you to a job?

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:39pm

Networking is hard.. any tips? (Originally Posted: 09/15/2011)

Hello forum,

I'm a Junior from a non-target school. Because banks don't recruit here, I've been relying more on reaching out to alumni and others for help. But it's not always easy... I mean I just finished a summer analyst program at a regional boutique just from cold calling. but still networking is HARD...

I just got off the phone w/ a MD who is an alumnus from a BB firm, and it was very discouraging. He focused on my knowledge in different sectors (which I didn't fully think about) and my grade. I have 3.3, and I know it's not pretty but it's not impossible to work with.

I mean, do I really need to choose my sector right now? I know there are different groups focus on different sectors, but I honestly feel like I just want to check out different sectors.

I am very social and people like me once they get to know me, but networking is freakin hard, especially if you're coming from nothing.

Do you guys have any tips on networking? How can I get more contacts, get to know more people and referrals, and eventually an interview? Anything would help. Thanks!

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:41pm

Be prepared for when you have the call... I agree that it is difficult to know conclusively that you want to be in a specific industry or product group, and to be honest most of the answers people give to the question are complete bullshit, but to be honest, most of banking is bullshit. When they ask you why do you want to be in banking its only because of money. Hardly anyone who works in banking loves it. If I could make this money chiling out on 40 hour weeks and watching sportscenter, I fucking would, but unfortunately that isn't a job that pays. You have to learn to play the game. It is a bit difficult to find a balance between sincerity and bullshit, but you have to find it because if you want to break in and subsequently succeed in any industry, let alone this one, you will need to learn how to diplomatically and inoffensively kiss ass. To your original inquiry about knowing which group you want to be in, you can avoid getting grilled and having difficult conversations if you are prepared. You should know what group he is in... know the major deals and companies in that space, and be able to speak to them. You can speak about your interests and acknowledge that you know the differences between industry and product groups and that you see merits in each. Then say that you like the ability to have a niche understanding of an industry, and would like to be able to serve that industry's clients across numerous products rather than doing purely IPOs/Follow-ons like you would in ECM, or doing purely debt placements like you would in DCM, or purely M&A, and a coverage group gives you that array of experiences. This is a great way to answer the question being asked by a Coverage banker... conversely, if you are speaking to a Product banker, use the inverse logic. You would like an opportunity to see diverse types of industries while building a strong valuation skillset. You like the idea of being able to execute deals, etc... At the end of the day its all about believing your own bullshit and subsequently selling that bullshit to someone else in a way that is convincing enough that they buy it, even though they know that you're a college kid looking to make money and you would give your left nut to work there. That's the way the game is played, and the blatant, ass-kissing douchebaggery only increases at every stage of the ladder. You have to play the game to get the result you want...

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:42pm

As you talk with more people, you are going to get the opportunity to see a myriad of personalities. You'll find that some people are excited to help you, while others will talk with you but are very hard-nosed. I'd recommend looking at all of your networking conversations as learning experiences -- focus on how a "bad" call could have been better. Specifically, when you talk with a hard-assed, difficult person again, make sure to be prepared. And don't get upset or discouraged. I'd use it at motivation frankly.

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:43pm

I found in networking and interviewing that bankers half the time tried to tear me a new asshole just to see if I could handle it ("fit"). Obviously you need to do at least SOME homework: know your markets (where was the S&P this morning, the top news of the day that would affect your networking target's industry/division, etc), and also take at least 15 minutes to review the guy's linkedin (if you can find it) or at least the company website/group website. If you know about some active deals and you don't sound like a complete scrub talking about the high level points, even better.

Like tan86 said, this is all good learning experience, even if you get a hardass who makes you want to punch the wall.

FWIW, the best interview I ever had was getting flown 6 hours out to CS LA, and having an MD crush my soul for over an hour and basically telling me I was a worthless piece of shit. I didn't get an offer but at least I know it wasn't because I couldn't handle a beat-down (I never got frustrated or backed down from a point).

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:45pm
venturecapitalista:
FWIW, the best interview I ever had was getting flown 6 hours out to CS LA, and having an MD crush my soul for over an hour and basically telling me I was a worthless piece of shit. I didn't get an offer but at least I know it wasn't because I couldn't handle a beat-down (I never got frustrated or backed down from a point).

haha id like to hear more about this :D. ive been crushed but dont think to this extent
and looking back, what could u have done to get the offer?
Jun 15, 2017 - 2:44pm

Everyone, thank you so much for kind words of encouragements. I sincerely appreciate everyone taking time to help me out! I feel like I'm definitely learning, and it really motivated to even work harder. oldmansacks, I'll PM you sometime this weekend with some questions if you don't mind! Thanks again!!

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:47pm

^ Wow... what a bunch of dbags. Maybe I've been lucky with my interviews in that I've never really met any who I could say were real asshats like the ones you met. I've had bankers who were stoic, stern or borderline unfriendly, but no one I would label rude. I've had pretty good experience with CS guys/gals - but I've never met their LA team.

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:48pm

i worked at DLJ/CS/UBS LA. what a bunch of sociopaths. LA is also good for yuppie hedonists. but outside of that it was a continuous hellscape for everyone involved. i should have continued interviewing and taken a BB job. MM firms like that churn and burn deals to stay profitable. bad mistake i made during recruiting to relent to their exploding offer.

that said, i really liked the cult-like worship of a particular MD who went on to start his own boutique. i still have some sand from his beach house in a little reliquary urn.

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:52pm

Networking - How do you network as a junior? (Originally Posted: 03/27/2008)

So I've read a lot on "networking, networking, networking" It makes sense to do this for a freshmen/soph, but how do you go about it as a junior after recruiting season.

For example, I am a Junior right now at a target school and did not get a BB SA. Should I start emailing my alum network and asking them if there are any late-time banking internships that their group might be offering? Or should I just email them to tell them that I am interested in a FT position at their firm what advice do they offer, etc and attached a resume?

Next, for FT recruiting in the fall, how should I network? Should I just shoot out emails to alums telling them I am going out for FT recruiting in the fall is there any advice they offer?

Thanks

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:53pm

I've always lived by the rule that networking doesn't hurt. I would definitely reach out to people, but don't seem like you're just contacting them for the sole purpose of getting a job (even if that's true). Ask them questions and then squeeze in the inquiry about any internship/job openings. If they can help you out now, great. If not, I would still stay in touch in the event that they may be able to help you later on.

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:56pm

Yeah, don't come out asking for a job. Come up with some talking points and questions to ask them about their time in banking and what they did to make it. Explain to them why you don't have an SA and options they'd suggest for internships that would work well. As a junior, I had no banking experience, missed out on a Lehman ECM internship, and thought all was lost for my BB hopes. Then I networked with an alum from my high school, got an internship in M&A at a F500, and networked with the senior guys there (former bankers) to get the numbers/emails of several BB MDs, of which most passed my resume along to HR and got me to the interview stage. And I was at nontarget.

Things would be exponentially easier for you if you are at a target and your GPA is solid. To convince them, I had to have a 3.85 GPA, have 2 jobs during school, and help found a club on campus. So long as you are solid with GPA, internships, and ECs, you will get an opportunity to interview at some good (ie- MM, not necessarily BB) banks.

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:57pm

Networking Help/Tips (Originally Posted: 01/10/2018)

In short, Connections led me to getting the HR departments personal phone #, and mom knows president of bank very well. How do I go about this process to land an internship, and hopefully a job in the future? I don't want to screw up this opportunity. I plan on calling the HR # in a few days, as she's already be in touch w/ the CEO. This is a big time bank in my city, and I grew up here, so I know a good amount of the parents that work there. How do I exhaust my connections in the best way possible. New to the community, long time reader. Best.

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:58pm

Hi CRoberts07, just trying to help:

  • What are helpful tips for office parties? the perfect opportunity to further your career networking. What tips do you have for working office ...
  • Help/Tips for MMs and Boutiques? my school, and I networked at both firm events and through my school's alumni network for months ... (not an athlete, member of a frat, etc. so had to build my own network) and landed 3 interviews. Got ... fortunate enough to network with an alumni who was in charge of the first-round selection process and ...
  • How to Network and Tips on Networking that this may not be possible if I go to what is considered a non-target. Any helpful tips on how to ... So I hear a lot about networking on this site and how it is important, especially if you go to ... a non-target or a semi-target. How hard is networking and how should one go about networking? In an ideal ...
  • I just got an interview in NYC: help,tips, anything please! Synopsis: I live in Pittsburgh, PA, just got an interview in NYC next Monday morning. They said dress to impress, bring to copies of my resume. Any advice on what exactly I should wear? Also, should I bring "fancy" copies of my resume or just 2 ...
  • Networking in the UK? Hi everyone. I wanna thank WSO for all the helpful tips that have been posted here. The general ... information about networking in the UK. What I've read so far is that it's not too effective and can ... that they are mostly backoffice roles. If networking truly does not work, is there anything that one ...
  • Career Transition right after Undergrad have a solid track record. Just looking for advice/helpful tips or some starting point for contacts ... networking tips and tricks but looking for some specific help with my situation. Currently in Boston, fiance ... the boutiques up here like HW, Evercore, etc. The issue I have is that my network (coming from outside ...
  • Help, tips about some interview question with ER interview If the research division asks you: what is your favorite class in college? will I need to gear my answers towards the a career of ER? also, if they have asked you if you have 10,000 USD, what would you invest?- For this, isn't it dependent my investm ...
  • More suggestions...

Any pros willing to rescue this discussion? Sikes CP18 Mike D

I hope those threads give you a bit more insight.

Jun 15, 2017 - 2:59pm

Networking - How do you follow up? (Originally Posted: 10/21/2007)

OK, you've talked to a representative, made a good impression. You've got his card, he's got your name, then what. How do you follow up? What do you talk about without being annoying etc, basically what's considered good/bad etiquette?

Phone/e-mail?

Appreciate any help

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:00pm

Email. A phone call would be awkward. Thank him or her for his or her time, etc. Don't tout your own skills in the thank you letter. I got a thank you email once where the person said thank you and then wrote an entire paragraph about their accomplishments. That isn't a thank you, that's something else.

CompBanker

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:01pm

Tips for the first reach networking e-mail? (Originally Posted: 04/15/2009)

I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction on creating the e-mails to contact alumni for the very first time. Templates, samples, etc. would be great. I just recently unearthed a few alumni, all of whose companies seem to have open positions, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:02pm

Just a formally toned letter style email is what I usually get from students from my university and most of my colleagues appreciate the same.

Explain your goals what you are trying to accomplish in the next year, five years etc.

One of the things I have seen before from students is something along the lines of "I was wondering if we can talk about helping me get a job at firm X that you work for". The students that I did help get jobs usually asked questions about my firm, the different businesses that we participate in, and similar questions that did not make me feel like I owe the student something.

Don't forget that even if an alumni contact does not feel like you would be a good fit for the openings that his/her particular firm has, they usually have a network they can reach out to and at least help the student get an interview they normally would have to blindly compete for.

If you get a meeting with an alum, do not come off cocky, act like you are the best graduate in the recent history of said university, and are god's gift to finance (you would be surprised, but quite a bit of kids come off this way because they think their 3.8 is special). If you look from my perspective, I would not want to introduce someone with that attitude to my colleagues.

Most importantly, always know that if you get hired for a position at an Alum's firm or at an Alum's friend's firm because of the Alum, you are a direct reflection on that Alum. We full time guys know this so we do not extend help to those that we believe would reflect badly on us.

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:05pm

Thanks for the replies.

One other question though, how would I phrase my questions if the alum is on the PE side and I am looking to apply for a position on the IBD side? Should I focus more on general questions about the company as opposed to the specific position?

Thanks again.

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:06pm

Actually I have another question too haha.

I am currently in Rochester, the firm is in NYC, should I still request to meet in person or may that come off as too desperate given I would be flying to meet someone for coffee. I am shooting for a FT position if that makes a difference.

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:10pm

You might also find these pieces of advice interesting (http://www.gottamentor.com/viewAdvice.aspx?a=340) and (http://www.gottamentor.com/SearchLib.aspx). They discuss how an introduction e-mail from someone else can be a better way of opening doors. It suggests trying to find a higher up or peer of the person at the firm, someone who knows the person personally or someone who knows you well (such as a former employee) that can discuss your qualifications.

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:11pm

Networking Guide Update (Originally Posted: 07/20/2009)

Are there any updates planned to the Networking Guide? I have a few of the WSO guides but I feel the networking one is lacking the most. I think it could benefit substantially from more examples, I think right now it's pretty generic...

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:13pm

Searching for tips of networking (Originally Posted: 05/29/2010)

I'm new here and have some questions about networking. I'm a first-year student from a french grande ecole business school (target). After some cold emailing to alumni, I received a reply from a director in JPM........So, here comes the question.

I just asked some professional questions in the first and second emails, and I got answers from her. But how can I keep it going on? In France, most of internship offers are off-cyle and there is few SA program in Paris. So, i have to keep this connection year-round and make her think of me whenever she has any opportunity.

Thank you

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:14pm

Slightly offtopic, but would recruiting for an off-cycle fall internship start in the spring (Jan-April) for Grande Ecoles? What internship start dates are employers hiring for during January - April?

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:16pm

As far as i know, there is no fixed timeline of recruitment for off-cycle interns in France. When a 'stagiaire' is finishing his/her intern, the company starts to hire another person to replace...Normally, the first-round interview will be taken place a few weeks before the starting date. It's the hardest part of searching internship here, you have to keep yourself prepared everyday, you never know when hr calls you oneday.

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:15pm

There's a lot of networking books out there that is probably more comprehensive than advice in this forum.

You should check your local library

but general advice is to not bug her too much since she will generally ignore you and just keep a friendly engaging dialog of what's going on with her especially around recruiting time.

good luck.

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:17pm

Networking Tips (Originally Posted: 07/22/2010)

Hey Guys,

I'm going to be a rising Junior at HYP and am starting my networking right now. I'm fortunate enough to have a pretty good alumni network both from college and my high school. I've started to contact people and make connections, and just had a few questions about the process.

Is it more helpful to target higher-up executives, lower-level analysts/associates/VPs, or both? I'm wondering what is a helpful mix. I've got a pretty nice alumni network to work with, so time is the only real constraint in this equation. Thanks for your help in advance.

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:18pm

Hey,

Congrats on 'the start' and all the excitement you have about investing Time and Intelligence into networking!

Well, my honest opinion is, one should connect with friends and colleagues thru NetworkingSites, but when it comes to building contacts with People who are influential and toppers of the field - make it - one-on-one..

Share your interests and hobbies with the Sr Guys and be honest, smart and respectful dealing with them..

Guys guide you..

What worked for me was: The Sr Guys of Industry i respect are easily approachable, but difficult to deal with if your approach is wrong! (as you are inexp, they take u for granted)..

Lesson i learnt:
Nice Girls don't get the Corner Office, and so i did quit bein a gal..

Networking is effective ONLY if used wisely..

Good Luck and Cheers,
Mia_Mumbai

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:19pm

Networking successfully? (Originally Posted: 08/03/2010)

So I recently contacted some alumni from my university asking for some tips on how to break into investment banking and had a successful response from one of them, who told me to send him my resume in the fall (it's a BB) during recruiting for SA and that was pretty much the extent of his reply e-mail.

I am very thankful that I had a successful e-mail, but what do I do now? How do I keep in contact with this person and not seem like a creeper? I have a few questions that I want to ask him, but I don't want to seem desperate. I'm afraid that by the time I send my resume to him during the fall he will have forgotten about me.

Thanks

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:21pm

Yeah, I would agree with the above. He's obviously a busy guy and he knew what you were trying to get at so he cut both of you a lot of hassle and beating around the bush. Just ask your questions to another Alumni.

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:22pm

One of my alumni said they dont do oncampus recruiting at our school but was really nice and offered some advice on breaking in. Didn't mention anything about me sending my resume though. What should I say?

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:23pm

Also, what does it mean when they say "send me your resume"? I know that I'm supposed to send my resume, but does it result in anything, or is it just a gesture of goodwill? I'd like to know before I get my hopes up hahah.

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:25pm
keynes168:
Also, what does it mean when they say "send me your resume"? I know that I'm supposed to send my resume, but does it result in anything, or is it just a gesture of goodwill? I'd like to know before I get my hopes up hahah.

Would like to know as well. Will this mean my resume will actually get read and considered for SA recruitment?

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:24pm

This brings up a question I have. I've been trading for about a year now and I'd like to get into ibanking or just trading, basically anything in the investments industry but I'm not exactly sure how to implement this into my resume since it is something I do daily (I make enough each month to pay the bills) but it isn't an actual job with a company. Is it worth trying to apply anywhere right now?

I've learned a lot but there's a lot more to learn, no question about that but I do have a solid basis. I had a job as an investment analysis, a B.S in Economics. Any tips?

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:29pm

I feel like everyone I talked to in the past month or so is just gonna forget about me / not give a shit about me. Obviously I'm gonna follow up before recruiting really gets underway but still pretty worried. People tell me to send them a resume when recruiting comes closer but I have a feeling its gonna be pretty damn hard for them to remember / care about me.

It's already been hard enough to track people down just for a phone call. I mean seriously, it takes like a month to get some people on the phone. Send initial email, no response, follow up a week/two later, get a response, call them at requested time, nobody picks up, leave a voicemail, wait another week, send another email following up, then finally get another response and call them again -.-

Networking is pretty damn frustrating I must say. Does anyone have any experience with following up with their contacts when recruiting actually starts (a month from now)? Will a lot of my contacts forget about me if my initial phone call with them was only a month ago? I don't want to be annoying and follow up every two weeks or some shit but at same time I don't want them to forget about me. I have a lot of people who asked me to send them a resume come recruiting season but I'm just worried that they'll forget about me / ignore me when that time comes around. Almost starting to think "developing" relationships in advance is worse than just making the relationship during recruiting season and following up immediately...

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:33pm

Networking Tips - Advice Needed (Originally Posted: 02/11/2011)

Hi Everyone -

I've been a member of WSO for almost a week now and it has been a tremendous asset to me thus far. This will be my second thread, the first was asking for feedback on a State Street Fund Accounting position that I was offered, which I got plenty of ENCOURAGING feedback in.

So here is the crux of this thread - the general consensus seems to be that networking is the BEST way into MO or FO work so I am looking for feedback on the best way to go about networking. So far these are the thoughts that come to my mind when thinking about this endeavor:

  1. Alumni Network
  2. Local events/groups (ie. meetup.com)
  3. Linked-in
  4. Sites such as WSO
  5. Cold-emailing

Are there any other techniques that may be more satisfactory than the ones I have listed? I have not had much luck with the latter techniques but it may be because I am looking for an entry-level position in the MO or FO and I have no direct experience in the finance/banking industry? Any thoughts or tips would be tremendous...

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:34pm

friends of the family/relatives, cold calling (if you can get your hands on numbers), student groups, profs/teachers, and one of my favorties as suggested by M&I: the airport

"too good to be true"

See my WSO Blog

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:35pm
GBB_19NHS:
friends of the family/relatives, cold calling (if you can get your hands on numbers), student groups, profs/teachers, and one of my favorties as suggested by M&I: the airport

Isn't cold calling frowned upon in this industry? I've tried the professor route and to no avail - yet, at least...
Friends and Family is always a good route and I have a few things in the works, I hope, but I was leaning towards methods that I can take charge of on my own and apply effort and energy towards. The airport is a good one though, I would've not thought of that - Kudos M&I

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:36pm

networking tips? (Originally Posted: 06/14/2011)

I am currently an intern in a medium IB and plan to shoot for an internship next summer in BB.

I just started my networking and found out that it was difficult to reach to non-alumnis (I'm not in a target school). I tried to connect with people on linkedin along with a decent message (basic backgroud & interest) but very few of them respond. I was wondering that if I should call into their office numbers directly。 Will that be inappropriate? Or is there any better ways?

Along with that, I was also wondering if you could give some tips cocerning to techniques of keeping conversations with bankers (showcasing my abilities, while arousing their willing to talk).

Thanks all.

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:37pm

I am just getting started down the finance path myself, so keep that in mind. Networking isn't so much a single act or action as it is a "way of life" (terribly cliche, I know). You have to just operate in a particular mindset. Go to meetings and industry events, engage people in conversation, exchange business cards, etc..

Instead of approaching a particular moment and think "I'm going to network right now", try to develop a networking mentality.

Patrick Bateman would eat Eddie Morra's lunch (and probably his brains).
Jun 15, 2017 - 3:38pm

any networking guide? (Originally Posted: 06/04/2012)

Hi all,

Could you please recommend me some networking guides/books? Like the WSO networking guide?

Thank you!

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:39pm

vault schmoozing guide

Success is my only option and failure is not
Jun 15, 2017 - 3:40pm

while i have read the vault guide as mentioned by rs12....u really need to pratice....guides only help so much use them....but praticing will help u get the skills u need dawg

"Solace in Revenge"
Jun 15, 2017 - 3:43pm

the best networking guide is pair of shoes and a day in new york. hang out near a lot of banks, grab dinner at a small casual place where finance guys go (small enough so that it has limited seating and you have to share a table) and just talk to people.

Jun 15, 2017 - 3:45pm

If that song came out when I was still going through the recruiting process I would have ended every interview with "Thanks for your time, I really appreciate it...Call me maybe?"

Any bank that didn't give me an offer isn't a bank I want to work at.

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