I'm an MD and I run the Sales division: Ask Me Anything

perpetual's picture
perpetual - Certified Professional
Rank: Orangutan | banana points 333

Mod note (Andy): we vetted this user to confirm his identity/status and yes in fact he is who he says he is, and is eager to answer your questions :)

Bio: I decided to join WSO to help both students and young professionals advance in their Finance careers, whether that be Sell side or side - as I have worked in both areas.

I spent 5 years in the sell side, advancing quickly from Analyst to an Executive Director in that time, far quicker then the usual 10 years minimum it takes. Following this I moved to the buy side, and am currently COO for a Large Cap Investment Manager where I cover Sales & Marketing, Fund Operations, Legal & Compliance, Audit, IT and HR.

Currently I'm in my early 30s and on 6-figures a year basic and have a 7-figure bonus target. I didn't get the best A-Levels, nor did I go to a famous University. I actually worked full time while at University in a bank hence graduating with a degree and 4 years of on the job experience.

Feel free to ask ANY QUESTION you like, and I will do my best to answer the question. If it is out of my scope, I will reach out to someone in my network for the best answer.

More about my background after the break...

I have worked in Europe and Asia and traveled frequently to the US on business. I won't lie, getting into banking with this background is tough, advancing so quickly is harder. But if I managed so can you. Let me help you succeed.

If you've already got the right background, then let me help you progress as quickly as I did.

2014 - Present - Large Cap Investment Manager
Chief Operating Officer

2013 - 2014 - Large Cap Investment Manager
Chief Marketing Officer

2012 - 2013 - Mid Cap Private Equity
Global Head, Sales & Marketing

2010 - 2012 - Top Tier Investment Bank
Global Head, Alternative Investors

2007 - 2010 - Top Tier Investment Bank
Asia Regional Head, Financial Institutions

Comments (169)

Apr 10, 2013

Does anyone at WSO verify these stories? I saw another post today from someone claiming to be an MD, but most of the people on WSO seem to be college students or maybe analysts.

''You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you need to concentrate on.'' -- President George W. Bush
0.5 bb

Apr 10, 2013
Dubya:

Does anyone at WSO verify these stories? I saw another post today from someone claiming to be an MD, but most of the people on WSO seem to be college students or maybe analysts.

if you see the certified star by a user's name then yes we have confirmed their identity/status. in this case in particular perpetual was more than happy to help provide the necessary information in the vetting process

WSO's COO (Chief Operating Orangutan) | My Linkedin

Dec 6, 2013

Unles something has changed, all a star next to someones name means is they sent you an email from an email account affiliated with a financial institution...

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Dec 6, 2013

most if not all of our verifications now are via linkedin confirmation

WSO's COO (Chief Operating Orangutan) | My Linkedin

Apr 10, 2013

Wait, I don't mean to question your background, but if you're under 30 that means you were the regional head of a top tier investment bank at 23....?

Apr 10, 2013

Still getting used to the system so forgive me if I make any mistakes in posting.

    • 2
Apr 10, 2013
Jamess1:

Wait, I don't mean to question your background, but if you're under 30 that means you were the regional head of a top tier investment bank at 23....?

I didn't start in that role, I started like anyone else did at "Analyst" level. I was able to get promoted very quickly through a combination of exceptionally hard work, a lack of competition at the same level and the fact that I worked directly for the MD of the division.

I joined the firm following a large internal crisis so a lot of people were being cut and therefore I was able to impress by stepping up to the mark. By the time I made Regional Head of Financial Institutions I was 26. Internally as the Asian team was still quite small it would have been the equivalent to VP-SVP in rank.

    • 1
Apr 10, 2013

You pulled bankers hours while going to undergrad full time?

Apr 10, 2013
CRE:

You pulled bankers hours while going to undergrad full time?

I was quite calculating in my degree choice, I chose one that only had a few core modules and the rest could be chosen. Therefore as the piece of paper (degree cert) just gets you in the door in the first role I figured all I needed to do was ensure I at least got a 2.1 (think back to the days when you would study 4 out of 8 subjects for an exam and hope for the best). Therefore I worked out the best way to get that, with the least amount of work.

The majority of the subjects I chose were coursework based (e.g.70%+ coursework). Thanks to this I was able to write a lot of the essays in my free time. I distinctly remember writing one on stress and getting points for stating that "stress is writing this essay on new years eve". Secondly I chose languages which I already spoke from having lived in the countries - but having no formal training/qualifications the University was forced to put me into the beginner classes.

Finally in the UK attending lectures is optional so I chose not to. For the seminars, again I avoided them, getting friends to sign me in if needed and for a lot of the the group work I would dial into meetings.

I wouldn't particularly recommend this route - however I could see the market was getting increasingly competitive and I wanted to graduate with the most relevant experience possible.

    • 2
Apr 10, 2013

I am Warren Buffett -- ask me anything.

Seriously, I am!

    • 1
    • 5
Apr 10, 2013
holla_back:

I am Warren Buffett -- ask me anything.

Seriously, I am!

The hell do you live in Omaha for?

Apr 10, 2013

I can't believe there have been no questions yet. I have been trying to find such a committed mentor for years. Seniors engaged in junior development in London could be counted on the fingers of one hand.

Apr 10, 2013

Who's member of your family helped you move up so quickly?

Else, what exceptional life circumstances allowed you to advance this fast?

Apr 10, 2013
companion:

Who's member of your family helped you move up so quickly?

Else, what exceptional life circumstances allowed you to advance this fast?

None of my family are in banking or finance for that matter. There are some pub owners, pilots, solicitors and Sales Directors in the Manufacturing side but I was the first to risk being disowned for joining finance.

I came across nepotism a lot in my limited years in the sell side. 50% of the time you wish you hadn't been assigned to coach/manage/co-work with that person as alot believe their name will carry them. But some of the hardest people working in the city feel the extra need to prove themselves as they were given an easier ride into the game. I respect these people greatly.

I got into banking by accident replying to a job advert looking for someone to do some data entry and analytics on a contract basis back in 2007 when I was just starting my second year at University.

The exceptional circumstances would be an internal crisis in the firm, which meant that a lot of middle talent was fired along with the GFC which meant most of the rest of the talent was also fired. I made myself indispensable by doing more for less - I went for title promotions in the beginning at the expense of money which meant that every time I skipped I got paid what I was missing. I may have missed out on some early cash but it's more than made up for it now.

I would also think that I am pretty good at what I do, or a good enough politician. I did enjoy my work though, and that helped immensely.

Apr 10, 2013
perpetual:

I got into banking by accident replying to a job advert looking for someone to do some data entry and analytics on a contract basis back in 2007 when I was just starting my second year at University.

You say in 2007 you were starting your second year at university, which means you graduated high school 2006. which means you graduated uni 2010, and you would be right around 25.

Kudos to you if you really are banking 7 figures at 25.

Apr 10, 2013
CBSWannabe:
perpetual:

I got into banking by accident replying to a job advert looking for someone to do some data entry and analytics on a contract basis back in 2007 when I was just starting my second year at University.

You say in 2007 you were starting your second year at university, which means you graduated high school 2006. which means you graduated uni 2010, and you would be right around 25.

Kudos to you if you really are banking 7 figures at 25.

Not at 25, by under 30 I meant just. Will be 30 later this year.

Good detective work but what I didn't tell you is that it was my second university as I had dropped out of my first course in 2003. I spent the years between 2003-2005 running my own small businesses which I later sold.

I finished high school in 2002 and went traveling around Europe for a year.

Apr 11, 2013
perpetual:
CBSWannabe:
perpetual:

I got into banking by accident replying to a job advert looking for someone to do some data entry and analytics on a contract basis back in 2007 when I was just starting my second year at University.

You say in 2007 you were starting your second year at university, which means you graduated high school 2006. which means you graduated uni 2010, and you would be right around 25.

Kudos to you if you really are banking 7 figures at 25.

Not at 25, by under 30 I meant just. Will be 30 later this year.

Good detective work but what I didn't tell you is that it was my second university as I had dropped out of my first course in 2003. I spent the years between 2003-2005 running my own small businesses which I later sold.

I finished high school in 2002 and went traveling around Europe for a year.

What type of company was it?

Apr 10, 2013

Chief Marketing Officer... this is a bit unusual I think. Most HF and PE firms I know have titles like MD/SMD institutional sales or Business Development and such but I assume that the CMO would be equivalent to one of these. Seeing that most of your jobs would consist of raising capital, developing relationships with LPs and designing new investment products, do you get profit shares/carried interest from the funds you helped raise or just bonuses?

Apr 10, 2013
brandon st randy:

Chief Marketing Officer... this is a bit unusual I think. Most HF and PE firms I know have titles like MD/SMD institutional sales or Business Development and such but I assume that the CMO would be equivalent to one of these. Seeing that most of your jobs would consist of raising capital, developing relationships with LPs and designing new investment products, do you get profit shares/carried interest from the funds you helped raise or just bonuses?

It is quite unusual, I was actually given quite a lot of leeway when it came to my new title. As I work in Asia where face (respect) is quite a public thing, people get very excited over how impressive titles sound. In essence my role is Group Head, Sales & Marketing, but as the rest of the company has CEO, CIO, COO they decided to continue in that vein with my hiring.

Again in terms of compensation I was in a unique position to be able to offer terms, which were then negotiated. As this was the first hire at a strategic level (the rest of my staff are all day to day distribution/channel sales) that was outside of the founding partners I asked for something a little more unique. I had a friend of mine who is General Counsel of GS to help as well in giving me ideas.

I requested more (knowing they would take me down) and was eventually offered 1% of assets raised (claimed through subscription fee rather than management fee) along with the ability to invest into any of the funds we offered at anytime at a 10% discount to the previous days NAV.

With this I committed to invest half of any bonus into the firm itself and have a 1 year holding period on any investment. Additionally with the bonus half was to be paid up front and half assuming no redemptions on those funds in the year.

    • 2
Apr 10, 2013
perpetual][quote=brandon st randy:

I requested more (knowing they would take me down) and was eventually offered 1% of assets raised (claimed through subscription fee rather than management fee) along with the ability to invest into any of the funds we offered at anytime at a 10% discount to the previous days NAV.

With this I committed to invest half of any bonus into the firm itself and have a 1 year holding period on any investment. Additionally with the bonus half was to be paid up front and half assuming no redemptions on those funds in the year.

This is a pretty sweet deal for you. Essentially you are getting paid like placement agents while at same time also getting a decent base salary.

Kudos for offering to re-invest your bonuses. This likely helped you get this deal. Do you have to pay taxes on that part of the bonus before it is re-invested into the fund?

Apr 10, 2013

I'll be starting at an asset management firm soon.

What are the clients generally looking for in deciding which asset manager to give their money to? What is considered a good risk-reward profile to these guys?

What about institutional investors vs high net worth, what kinds of products/investment strategies appeal to these group in general, and what are the different characteristics they look for in deciding where to put their money?

What characteristics are important for raising AUM as much as possible?

Apr 13, 2013
job.resume:

I'll be starting at an asset management firm soon.

What are the clients generally looking for in deciding which asset manager to give their money to? What is considered a good risk-reward profile to these guys?

What about institutional investors vs high net worth, what kinds of products/investment strategies appeal to these group in general, and what are the different characteristics they look for in deciding where to put their money?

What characteristics are important for raising AUM as much as possible?

Asset strategies are pretty much the essence of my role and it's a difficult question to answer in such a short space. For the most part you need to meet each client individually as they will all have different needs.

However the following article was sent to me recently and it provides a good overview.

Currently institutional investors favour fixed-income and alternatives assets as they continue de-risking their portfolios, with a focus on cost-effective market exposure and downside protection according to State Street. Their Vision report says asset allocation trends suggest a shift from equities to bonds by investors, who are favouring cost-effective forms of passive market exposure such as indexing, absolute return investing and ETFs, as well as strategies offering downside protection.

Alternatives that are becoming more popular among institutional investors include emerging markets - especially Asia and Latin America, where prospects for economic growth look better. Other popular alternative assets include real estate, private equity and infrastructure as investors seek out less volatile returns.

According to the report, the most important factor driving decisions among institutional investors is yield (28%) followed by risk aversion (27%), diversification away from mainstream asset classes (22%) and regulatory uncertainty (22%).

While yield remains institutional investors' primary focus, upcoming regulatory changes, such as those brought by the Solvency II directive, add to the trend towards portfolio de-risking, especially in terms of longevity, inflation and interest-rate risk, with institutions reducing their equity exposures and increasing bond allocations, the report says.

In terms of raising capital, investors prefer to understand how a manager proposes to get results, rather than be impressed by a spectacular track record without knowing how it was achieved. Transparency of fees is also becoming more important. Meanwhile, larger investors have become more security-conscious than their smaller counterparts.

In order of importance:

* Clarity of Investment Process
* Risk Control
* Performance
* Investment management fees - transparency
* Stability of investment team
* Client Service
* Quality of reporting
* Invesment management fees - level
* Financial strength of external manager
* Corporare governance
* Understanding of own organisation's goals and needs
* Reputation of asset manager (brand)
* Socially Responsible Investments /Environmental, Social, Governance Credentials
* Other

The same 5 criteria have held the top slots - albeit in a different order - for the last 3 years. This shift in emphasis suggests that investors now accept that performance can be misleading; even after the financial earthquakes of the past few years, there are still likely to be shocks in store.

What do you think?

    • 1
Apr 10, 2013

What skills/characteristics have helped you advance in your career at such an astonishing pace?

What advice would you give to college students looking to break into the industry?

Apr 10, 2013

How often do you receive cold calls/emails from undergrad students? Your response rate? What are some of the qualities you look for when UG students initially reach out to you/conduct that first informational interview with you?

Apr 10, 2013
StryfeDSP:

How often do you receive cold calls/emails from undergrad students? Your response rate? What are some of the qualities you look for when UG students initially reach out to you/conduct that first informational interview with you?

Ha, this might cost me my inbox now. I've only had one student that was ever ballsy enough to reach out to me and he did that via an unusual social networking site. After looking at his CV I was so impressed that I told him I was off that day (Wednesday - was acquiring items for new flat) and was shopping in Orchard (Singapore). If he could get to me within 1 hour I would have a chat with him.

Within 45min we were having a drink and the next day I got in touch with a colleague who had a spot. He interviewed him on Friday and he started on the Monday.

He's now been with the firm almost 2 years and is getting ready for his next career move which I know he will "crush".

It could have been right time and right place. But he was a star candidate and I would be surprised if after his banking career he doesn't enter politics in his home country.

So in answer, 1 / 1 and I'm clearly looking for commitment to career, passion and the right reasons for joining.

    • 1
Apr 11, 2013
perpetual:
StryfeDSP:

How often do you receive cold calls/emails from undergrad students? Your response rate? What are some of the qualities you look for when UG students initially reach out to you/conduct that first informational interview with you?

Ha, this might cost me my inbox now. I've only had one student that was ever ballsy enough to reach out to me and he did that via an unusual social networking site. After looking at his CV I was so impressed that I told him I was off that day (Wednesday - was acquiring items for new flat) and was shopping in Orchard (Singapore). If he could get to me within 1 hour I would have a chat with him.

Within 45min we were having a drink and the next day I got in touch with a colleague who had a spot. He interviewed him on Friday and he started on the Monday.

He's now been with the firm almost 2 years and is getting ready for his next career move which I know he will "crush".

It could have been right time and right place. But he was a star candidate and I would be surprised if after his banking career he doesn't enter politics in his home country.

So in answer, 1 / 1 and I'm clearly looking for commitment to career, passion and the right reasons for joining.

Really enjoyed reading your stories and this thread. Thank you for posting.

Apr 10, 2013

What advice would you give to an enterprising young man currently in community college who is interested in moving to a business development or sales role at buyside or sellside institution? Here are my cliff notes which hopefully imply why I might be hopeful to one day obtain such a position despite my apparent lack of prestige...

-25 years old
-Flunked out of shitty public college at 18 (personal issues, stopped going to class)
-Got a job as a junior headhunter at 19 (midlevel associate lateral placements at BigLaw firms)
-Got a job as a financial services headhunter at 22 (senior-level recruitment in investment banking and sales & trading for bulge bracket investment banks)

Already making six figures, if you include my bonus, but I've just begun taking classes at community college in the hopes of doing something different. My exit opportunities are currently limited to other headhunting firms and, while I enjoy what I do, notwithstanding an entrepreneurial endeavor, I would love to actually one day move over to one of my clients. For what is' worth, I speak to people on the buy-side and sell-side everyday, on the desk, off the desk, go out to dinner and drinks with them frequently, and I definitely have what it takes. Would absolutely love to be a sales guy.

Due to my latter-day academic sins, I do not have any other option than attending community college. Hope to graduate with an Associate's degree soon and transfer to as good a school as I can manage. My thinking is obviously community college->4 year school (try to get as good a job as I can get) and/or MBA. Any alternatives I should be thinking about?

Apr 10, 2013

I'm starting at a boutique Investment Bank in the fall as an analyst.

What advice can you give someone who is at a relatively unknown firm but wants to move to a large buy-side firm after a few years? What can I do to distinguish myself and compete with people who have GS, MS, etc. stamps on their resume?

Apr 13, 2013
White Lion:

I'm starting at a boutique Investment Bank in the fall as an analyst.

What advice can you give someone who is at a relatively unknown firm but wants to move to a large buy-side firm after a few years? What can I do to distinguish myself and compete with people who have GS, MS, etc. stamps on their resume?

I would bide your time if I were you. The banks are all downsizing and this isn't a cyclical contraction, they are genuinely reducing the total number of full time employees. Working at a boutique will allow you to fulfill far more responsibilities then you would at a BB. It gives you a greater chance to prove yourself. Competition is fierce in BB and everyone will sell their grandmother to get ahead (as you can see from a lot of the posters on this site already).

Fundamentally it's about building up responsibility and knowledge, so rather than thinking about changing now, why not work the hardest and smartest in your new role, impress management and then exit or advancement opportunities will naturally open up.

The worst thing you can do is show that you are only there as a fall back role and plan to leave as soon as you get the chance. If you were in my team and I got that impression, I would give the job to someone more dedicated and passionate.

    • 1
Apr 12, 2013

.

    • 1
Apr 10, 2013

Is my University / Course "good enough for banking"?

I can see that there are very long threads already dedicated to answering this question but I thought I would have a stab at it all the same after a PM from a masters student.

In banks and finance generally you find people from Universities all over the world and sometimes (although diminishing) you find people without degrees. Half of the people I have worked with had degrees from places I'd never even heard of. Banks are very international places. I think that after you get in the door and start working no one gives a monkey about where you got your degree or what grades you got in your exams. You got the job, therefore you must have been the best candidate available. There is a degree of respect given for that.

When you progress in your career again, your university name, it's irrelevant. What's important is having that piece of paper to fill in on a form when they ask for your degree, grade and year. In places like Hong Kong or Singapore where I have worked not having a degree can often (especially in Singapore) prevent you from qualifying for a work visa.

But we aren't here to discuss the merits of University. Instead let's discuss getting in the door.

When hiring and I was discussing this with a friend of mine last night who spent the last 20 years as a prop trader in various banks (that's all disappearing with Volker) and then started his own hedge fund, what we looked for the most in any candidate was a "commitment to career". He said he favoured the candidates that really had a desire to be a trader, understood the work that was involved and had a desire "to prove themselves". He also would ask where else was the candidate was looking and if any of the roles were not to do with trading he would dismiss the candidate. In fairness, most roles in a bank are highly specialized and therefore if you are looking at trading in one bank and IBD in another, the manager who has chosen to specialise - can't take you seriously.

So if you are looking at different fields, don't mention it, at least not in an interview.

He like me didn't really care about what University you went to, unless you are doing a highly specialised degree e.g. engineering or medical. But for the most part the multitude of business degrees teach you things that are interesting but it's more to build your soft skills. Which I think you should already have for the most part if banking is a field you plan to enter.

They say it only accepts the cream of the crop - well the stars always rise to the top no matter where you go. In banking you can't rely on intelligence, which gets you into the best university - it's all the other skills added in which allow you to succeed.

Now I'm not / nor have I ever worked in HR but I decided to call a friend who is an executive level headhunter for finance here in Hong Kong. He said that generally banks HR teams favour the red bricks / Russell group of universities, more for the establishment itself then any particular course (although again it's about showing commitment to career e.g. explain why you did medicine and then applied to a trading job - aint gonna fly). He described it as the "networks you would develop in such establishments are the things that the banks are looking for as continuous networking is needed in your career" - the more people you know especially in the same field the better.

Makes sense. He said these days though things are changing, the London Universities generally have a stronger chance just because they are closer to the buzz - in essence you need ties to the City. So look for universities that amongst their graduates have sent a lot to the City. Look for courses that may exempt you from professional qualifications. Look for courses that will teach you skills applicable to your chosen profession.

Pick the highest rank university you can, don't worry to much about the ranking of the course, as again unless you are going for a highly specialised career which Is irrelevant in this context it's more the name of the University that matters.

If you don't get into a top Uni, well - network, work for free, do data entry or open the mail. Apply outside bulge brackets and send emails to the team you want to be in.

I was rejected before verbals/numericals by all the bulge brackets and it hasn't stopped me. It didn't stop most people in finance. So if you really want it. Go get it.

    • 2
Best Response
Apr 10, 2013

Is it possible to enter banking after 30?

Well first off it's interesting to see someone on here that's older than me. In terms of answering the question:

"It would be very tough, almost impossible".

I generally rather not shut people down, but after getting the advice from a couple of headhunters they also deemed it to be very difficult.

Fundamentally it goes back to the concept of showing a commitment to career. Everyone will ask why the sudden change in direction.

Now, if you had relevant experience e.g. sales and marketing, finance, deal advisory which were the three that the headhunter quoted, you stand a better chance but again you would really need to stand out. Perhaps having done an MBA would also allow you to re-start.

A sales and marketing background e.g. in FMCG for example as a buyer/seller may be deemed suitable for coverage roles or asset raising/marketing jobs (in the buy side). I know a Group Head of Marketing who came from an FMCG background and now works for a $150m Hedge Fund. Although he did join when it was less than $5m.

A CFO level candidate with the accounting qualifications could look at Product Control in a bank as again it's relatively straight forwarding accounting.

Someone that has been involved in negotiating deals/IPOs etc from the FTSE side again might be considered for M&A in a specific "corporate" M&A team as a sector specialist.

But generally, again, I will restate, it will be very difficult. Given the above it's almost easier to join after 40 where a wealth of specialist experience has already been gained.

Opportunities will undoubtedly have to be garnered through networks and your cover letter better be fantastic & convincing.

It's all about adding value at the end of the day and showing that you can "learn new tricks".

    • 3
Apr 10, 2013

How much do you make?
How much do analysts in your department make?

I'm not concerned with the very poor
-Mitt Romney

Apr 10, 2013

Okay so first of all what has been the most difficult thing you have ever completed, how hard would you say it is for one to break into I-banking from a non-target, and what did you spend on with your bonus?

Apr 10, 2013
Oasix21:

Okay so first of all what has been the most difficult thing you have ever completed, how hard would you say it is for one to break into I-banking from a non-target, and what did you spend on with your bonus?

How about this the most difficult thing I've failed to complete is getting married. Due to cheating on my fiancees with my work. I've so far had three engagements break off because I gave more time to my career then them. That's something you have to bear in mind if this is the career you want.

The most difficult thing I ever completed was resigning from my last post in the sell side, I was really taken to guilt lane and I was very close with my manager which meant it was particularly difficult as I left 3/4 through a strategic project I was implementing. It was finished without a hitch because of the plans I left behind for my replacement who I had interviewed but the strain of the emotions that can tie you to a place. I still wonder sometimes if I made the right choice. But then, in banks especially at the moment there are a lot of people coming and going.

How hard is it to break in. I managed from a non-target, non-heard of. You just need to be more proactive in your searches, look at the boutiques rather than the BBs. As I said in my thread on University choice it's more to do with showing you have what it takes.

What have I spent my bonuses on, well drinks, women and taxes in my "younger days". My last toy was a Nissan GTR which I took up to 800BHP and used to race at an F1 track nearby. At the moment, as here in HK there are no nearby tracks I'm torn between an F360 Spider and an SLK 55AMG. Both second hand, you don't get rich giving money away. I appreciate the Fezza has a lot more cache but it's also double the price. I'm also saving up to move into a larger apartment.

If I could do it all over again I would have saved the lot and had a good cushion in place in case I was made redundant.

    • 1
Apr 10, 2013

Would you recommend an accounting degree for a person going to a non target school? Or a double major finance/accounting? Thank you!

Mps721

Apr 13, 2013
Mps721:

Would you recommend an accounting degree for a person going to a non target school? Or a double major finance/accounting? Thank you!

Again this goes back to my earlier post about what school/course should I take - generally the more business orientated the degree the better. Therefore especially if you are going to a non-target it would be worth taking a finance styled degree - the more mathematical the better especially for some banks. You also get 3/4 years to see if you actually enjoy the subject and will be happy working in it for the rest of your career.

Apr 10, 2013

Your friend, the prop trader starting a hedge fund. Would he look at a candidate who didn't finish college but was willing to rip off someones head to become a trader?

alpha currency trader wanna-be

Apr 13, 2013
watersign:

Your friend, the prop trader starting a hedge fund. Would he look at a candidate who didn't finish college but was willing to rip off someones head to become a trader?

You could try and sell him in a bar, but generally for regulated activities you need to pass various exams, and these generally require undergraduate degrees as prerequisites, unless you have vast experience in the specific areas.

Apr 14, 2013
perpetual:
watersign:

Your friend, the prop trader starting a hedge fund. Would he look at a candidate who didn't finish college but was willing to rip off someones head to become a trader?

You could try and sell him in a bar, but generally for regulated activities you need to pass various exams, and these generally require undergraduate degrees as prerequisites, unless you have vast experience in the specific areas.

I don't think any of the Series 7/65/etc in America require an undergraduate degree. Fill me in?

alpha currency trader wanna-be

Apr 10, 2013

probably the most overused question, but I want to hear honest answers and this is probably the best place to ask...

what are the most important traits the bulge bracket is looking for from a candidate?

    • 1
Apr 13, 2013
sage_of_java:

probably the most overused question, but I want to hear honest answers and this is probably the best place to ask...

what are the most important traits the bulge bracket is looking for from a candidate?

Well, this is very variable depending on the specific role in the bank and I don't mean to be facetious but they are looking for the person that can do the job.

Sales - extrovert personalities that are good at talking and conveying ideas
Traders - generally introverts who understand and can manipulate numbers
IBD/Research - detectives who can look through information and deduce fact

It really does differ but HR will often filter on school and grades. Again as I keep saying it comes down to showing a "commitment to career".

    • 1
Apr 11, 2013

Can a position in correspondent banking be parlayed into investment banking role? DCM? Institutional portfolio management?

Apr 11, 2013

Do you have a walk-away number?

Apr 11, 2013

How much of bringing assets in is the strategy, how much is persistence (#'s), and how much is your personal skill/salesmanship?

TenaciousExecution dot com

Apr 13, 2013
rileydawg:

How much of bringing assets in is the strategy, how much is persistence (#'s), and how much is your personal skill/salesmanship?

Strategy is crucial to bringing in assets for you need to determine who is interested in your region, country, product and then how are you going to reach out to them. How are you branding yourself to create interest.

Persistence is certainly important but if you are talking to clients who are interested in your product then it's all about persuasion. I always think of two quotes, firstly they wouldn't meet you if they weren't interested and secondly from "Boiler Room" which is not exactly the best reference but "a sale always occurs, either you sell the product, or they sell you their excuse".

Naturally you need to be a good sales person, or more importantly in my opinion a strong relationship manager. These days it's becoming more an educational driven pitch then a straight sell & close. IMs try to forge strategic relationships with their distribution channels/partners.

    • 1
Apr 11, 2013

Hi, thank you so much for doing this! I'll be interning in S&T at a BB this summer, and I have a couple of questions:
1. How do you become good sales, i.e. what are the best practices?
2. How do you differentiate yourself from everyone ese, and manage to stand out in a positive way?
3. I saw that you worked in Singapore. How does the work environment there differ from Europe? How can a European get a job in Singapore? Is it possible at analyst level?

Cheers!

Apr 13, 2013
Monkeyfaces:

Hi, thank you so much for doing this! I'll be interning in S&T at a BB this summer, and I have a couple of questions:
1. How do you become good sales, i.e. what are the best practices?
2. How do you differentiate yourself from everyone ese, and manage to stand out in a positive way?
3. I saw that you worked in Singapore. How does the work environment there differ from Europe? How can a European get a job in Singapore? Is it possible at analyst level?

Cheers!

1. Socialise a lot, make friends and the network follows is generally what I quote. Also ensure that you are stay informed, sales is often educational in nature.

2. Well I'm taller then average. Probably fatter then average as well. But generally I tell people I'm always willing to help, and I often help other departments/friends as we are all working together towards a common goal, the overall success of the firm.

3. Tax is a lot less. Generally in banks the environment is the same all over, work hard play hard. Getting a job in Singapore specifically at analyst level may not be possible due to visa requirements for minimum salaries. However I imagine you could apply for graduate roles at the Singapore banks or put it down as your target location for other banks that have offices there.

    • 1
Apr 11, 2013

It's refreshing to see someone who works on the sale side of finance so thanks you for your Q&A.
I made a thread about how to become an HF capital raiser some time ago (here it is if you have any interest: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/how-to-become-an-hf... ) and even if I have chosen a different path now I would love to have your view on what would good entry level jobs to become a salesman in an HF or a large IM.

Apr 13, 2013
TheSquale:

It's refreshing to see someone who works on the sale side of finance so thanks you for your Q&A.
I made a thread about how to become an HF capital raiser some time ago (here it is if you have any interest: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/how-to-become-an-hf... ) and even if I have chosen a different path now I would love to have your view on what would good entry level jobs to become a salesman in an HF or a large IM.

It's always generally seen as a role that you get into later in your career as you bring your "book of clients" with you. I recently started looking for some distribution analysts to help me with pitch book generation and analysis of asset allocation strategies, but in terms of a specific entry role - I think you would still be better of starting at a bank in a coverage / relationship management role, ideally covering alternative investors.

    • 1
Apr 11, 2013

what advice do you have in moving up the chain quickly?
How can u impress your bosses the most?
How do u know if you impress your bosses?
How do u go about asking for more money and how do u know if your asking for too much?

Apr 13, 2013
UnclePanda:

what advice do you have in moving up the chain quickly?
How can u impress your bosses the most?
How do u know if you impress your bosses?
How do u go about asking for more money and how do u know if your asking for too much?

It all depends really - but fundamentally:

Work hard and be good at what you do.
Work hard and be the best at what you do.
You keep your job and they increase your salary/bonus.
You threaten to leave, they let you.

Apr 11, 2013

"I'm clearly looking for commitment to career, passion and the right reasons for joining"

What would you say are the right reasons for joining?

Apr 13, 2013
dnv05:

"I'm clearly looking for commitment to career, passion and the right reasons for joining"

What would you say are the right reasons for joining?

Well I think the right reason is because you are interested and are going to enjoy the job right? You want the money but you are willing to work hard and long to earn it.

Apr 11, 2013

I am a strategy consultant at a Tier 2 firm and interested in breaking into finance. I am 23 and went to a non-target, but a well-known liberal arts college. My degree is in biology.

What steps would you recommend that I take to either break into finance pre-MBA, or would you recommend pursuing my MBA before hoping to find a position in finance?

Apr 13, 2013
infiniti25:

I am a strategy consultant at a Tier 2 firm and interested in breaking into finance. I am 23 and went to a non-target, but a well-known liberal arts college. My degree is in biology.

What steps would you recommend that I take to either break into finance pre-MBA, or would you recommend pursuing my MBA before hoping to find a position in finance?

Even with an MBA these days it's not guaranteed but can certainly help show that you wish to rethink your career. The only other avenue would be joining a boutique probably or reaching out to clients you may have worked with as a strategy consultant.

You could also look for roles in the strategy divisions of banks, these are usually at group level and provide some of the most interesting work in banks.

Apr 16, 2013
perpetual:
infiniti25:

I am a strategy consultant at a Tier 2 firm and interested in breaking into finance. I am 23 and went to a non-target, but a well-known liberal arts college. My degree is in biology.

What steps would you recommend that I take to either break into finance pre-MBA, or would you recommend pursuing my MBA before hoping to find a position in finance?

Even with an MBA these days it's not guaranteed but can certainly help show that you wish to rethink your career. The only other avenue would be joining a boutique probably or reaching out to clients you may have worked with as a strategy consultant.

You could also look for roles in the strategy divisions of banks, these are usually at group level and provide some of the most interesting work in banks.

Thanks for the advice! Can you elaborate more on strategy divisions within banks?

Apr 17, 2013
infiniti25:
perpetual:
infiniti25:

I am a strategy consultant at a Tier 2 firm and interested in breaking into finance. I am 23 and went to a non-target, but a well-known liberal arts college. My degree is in biology.

What steps would you recommend that I take to either break into finance pre-MBA, or would you recommend pursuing my MBA before hoping to find a position in finance?

Even with an MBA these days it's not guaranteed but can certainly help show that you wish to rethink your career. The only other avenue would be joining a boutique probably or reaching out to clients you may have worked with as a strategy consultant.

You could also look for roles in the strategy divisions of banks, these are usually at group level and provide some of the most interesting work in banks.

Thanks for the advice! Can you elaborate more on strategy divisions within banks?

Well all banks from my knowledge will have a Group Strategy division which is responsible for helping the CEO and the Business Heads to implement their strategic plans. It's heavily involved in change management and re-organisation. It will perform top level analytics for those running the business and generally will be one of the most politically influential areas of the bank as they have the top management "ears". I remember in my last bank when the group strategy team used to ask for information we would drop whatever we were doing to get them the information, quite funny really. Whenever there are outside strategy firms called in they work with group strategy to align initiatives.

    • 1
Apr 11, 2013

This guy is straight beast mode. Keep it up my dude.

Apr 11, 2013

I have several PE and IB internships. I have also founded an online business (profitable, but not enough to live off of). Would you put that online business on your resume if you were me? I have heard that entrepreneurship is always a positive, but have also heard it might take away from internship experience and cast a shadow of doubt about whether or not I am really committed to IB.

    • 1
Apr 13, 2013
KKS:

I have several PE and IB internships. I have also founded an online business (profitable, but not enough to live off of). Would you put that online business on your resume if you were me? I have heard that entrepreneurship is always a positive, but have also heard it might take away from internship experience and cast a shadow of doubt about whether or not I am really committed to IB.

I have the two companies I founded on my cv.

Apr 11, 2013

Hmm, it pays of to be in HK. I'm thinking of setting up shop in Hong Kong.

Folks, take a look at this Live Camera of twoifc, and if you like the view, give me a Bonus Point
http://www.ifc.com.hk/en/office/vr/east.html

Apr 12, 2013

Hi - thanks for posting. I have a few questions;

1. You are essentially Head of Distribution / Business Development at a long only mutual fund manager. Is this correct?
2. You said you were previously at a mid cap hedge fund? By mid cap do you mean mid size? If my assumption in question #1 is correct, why did you leave the hedge fund business to move to more traditional asset management?
3. How did you progress from the HF to your current role? If you were there for only one year how did you raise asset so quickly to get headhunted away to another role?
4. In your role as Head of Alternative Investments, was this the FOF's division (both HF and PE) at a BB Investment Bank?
5. From 2007 - 2010, what do you mean by Head of Financial Institutions? Did you start of as an Investment Banking analyst in the investment banking division? What was your first role in the industry and what division was this in?
6. If you are working in a sales role in Hong Kong, do you have any Asian language skills?

Apr 13, 2013
adast027:

Hi - thanks for posting. I have a few questions;

1. You are essentially Head of Distribution / Business Development at a long only mutual fund manager. Is this correct?
2. You said you were previously at a mid cap hedge fund? By mid cap do you mean mid size? If my assumption in question #1 is correct, why did you leave the hedge fund business to move to more traditional asset management?
3. How did you progress from the HF to your current role? If you were there for only one year how did you raise asset so quickly to get headhunted away to another role?
4. In your role as Head of Alternative Investments, was this the FOF's division (both HF and PE) at a BB Investment Bank?
5. From 2007 - 2010, what do you mean by Head of Financial Institutions? Did you start of as an Investment Banking analyst in the investment banking division? What was your first role in the industry and what division was this in?
6. If you are working in a sales role in Hong Kong, do you have any Asian language skills?

It sounds like you're trying to take off the mask. The IM where I work has a range of strategies including long only, hedge fund absolute return and private equity. In banking the role was a coverage banker job - so managing the relationship the bank had with alternative investor clients. I started in the client management section of the sales and trading division in 2007 and worked my way up to eventually end up running the section for Asia by 2010. I don't speak any Asian languages although I am trying to learn Mandarin.

Apr 12, 2013

hmm... pass

    • 1
    • 3
Apr 12, 2013

How does one become really good at sales/communication without working in sales? Do you recommend the Dale Carnegie course? What would you say is the key to communication/sales in general?

Thank you, appreciate your time

Apr 13, 2013
Firefox:

How does one become really good at sales/communication without working in sales? Do you recommend the Dale Carnegie course? What would you say is the key to communication/sales in general?

Thank you, appreciate your time

Well, life is a sale. A good way to practice naturally is talking. Go out, assuming your old enough to drink right, go to a bar on your own and try and make friends. Chat someone up.

Once you are confident in making friends with strangers, then start selling ideas. Pick a topic and go out and try to convince people to take your point of view.

I read "How to win friends and influence people", it's a great book, not sure if you actually need to attend a course though.

The key to communication is being clear and friendly in my opinion.

    • 1
Apr 12, 2013

What kind of bank position did you have while in college? I just found I need to get a job to pay for school and hopefully can land a position to help jumpstart a career like you did. Any help would be appreciated!

Apr 13, 2013
delta022:

What kind of bank position did you have while in college? I just found I need to get a job to pay for school and hopefully can land a position to help jumpstart a career like you did. Any help would be appreciated!

Well I answered a post in the local newspaper asking for someone to do data entry and it just happened to turn out to be a bank. I also was willing to "not attend" classes for the job. If that's the route you want to go down you're best off looking at employment agencies in the "temp section" and specifying you want bank work.

Apr 12, 2013

What's secret to advance so quickly from an analyst to the senior level?
I am currently working in the BO of a BB, but really would like to work in the FO, what kind of approach do you recommend to achieve that other than networking? Is it true that the longer I work in the BO( currently 1st yr), the harder to get into the FO?

Apr 13, 2013
bananatree0113:

What's secret to advance so quickly from an analyst to the senior level?
I am currently working in the BO of a BB, but really would like to work in the FO, what kind of approach do you recommend to achieve that other than networking? Is it true that the longer I work in the BO( currently 1st yr), the harder to get into the FO?

Moving to FO from BO is next to impossible these days. Specifically following Kerviel and Quekboli (however you spell it) the BO background traders at SocGen and UBS who used their knowledge of back office functions to defraud the bank.

BO can be very lucrative as well, if you become Global Head of Ops you will earn a very comfortable base, have the pleasure of managing hundreds of people and will have a seat at the table with the heads of FO. It's also more of a 9-5 role at the top.

It's also difficult to persuade your current managers why you want to move to FO - in essence you are telling them, (who have chosen to make their career in that area) that you think what they do isn't exciting enough.

I think that you can try networking and the likes, but better to enjoy what you are doing. At the end of the day a job in BO finance is still better paid then most similar level jobs in other industries.

    • 1
Apr 13, 2013

What motivates you to come to contribute on the site?

Stay Strong!

Apr 13, 2013
Dance While the Music On:

What motivates you to come to contribute on the site?

I see it as a form of social responsibility giving back and helping those that are genuinely interested in getting into finance. I wish I knew someone when I first started out that I could ask questions. Except for the books written on banking it would often be difficult for regular students to meet finance executives and answer questions. The books also often exaggerate the lifestyle.

Also I have seen posts here and on other forums where individuals were telling other posters they stood no chance at getting into banking and should give up now and then when looking though that user's post history you could see they were often 1st year uni students and had no qualifications or experience on which to base their misinformation.

If you want to know how it really is - ask someone in the industry right?

    • 2
Apr 13, 2013

Following on from my post earlier, I'd be interested to know why you would leave the post of Head of Alternative Investments (surely a massive role for someone in their mid to late 20's) and with comp most likely $1m + easily to run Sales and Marketing at a mid level hedge fund?

Unless the HF was Citadel, Och Ziff, Winton etc I find it hard to believe that someone would leave a role as Head of Alternative Investments at UBS / GS / JPM / DB etc, etc for this role.

Apr 13, 2013
adast027:

Following on from my post earlier, I'd be interested to know why you would leave the post of Head of Alternative Investments (surely a massive role for someone in their mid to late 20's) and with comp most likely $1m + easily to run Sales and Marketing at a mid level hedge fund?

Unless the HF was Citadel, Och Ziff, Winton etc I find it hard to believe that someone would leave a role as Head of Alternative Investments at UBS / GS / JPM / DB etc, etc for this role.

Money isn't everything.

Apr 13, 2013

By the way, I am getting quite a lot of PMs. I would rather you just ask your questions directly in this post so that everyone can get the benefit (or not) of my answer and it also saves me having to re-write the same general message over and over again.

Thanks for understanding.

Apr 14, 2013

.

Apr 14, 2013

I have no questions -- just thank you.
So many bankers here showing off, you just reminded me you can remain a good person in finance.

Apr 17, 2013
Maria Titova:

I have no questions -- just thank you.
So many bankers here showing off, you just reminded me you can remain a good person in finance.

Thanks I try my best :)

Apr 14, 2013

This thread is fantastic, really great insights!

I am currently a 1st year operations analyst at a BB in fund admin/asset pricing. I came from a completely non-finance background and only really got interested in my final year at university. I'd really love to get an IBD analyst position but i realise that's going to be nigh on impossible

1. What do you think my chances are at progressing into a risk analysis role at a HF or fund manager?

2. What are the BO/risk roles like at HFs?

3. If you for a second presume i am good enough to be in IBD, what way would you go about it?

Apr 17, 2013
wiilll:

This thread is fantastic, really great insights!

I am currently a 1st year operations analyst at a BB in fund admin/asset pricing. I came from a completely non-finance background and only really got interested in my final year at university. I'd really love to get an IBD analyst position but i realise that's going to be nigh on impossible

1. What do you think my chances are at progressing into a risk analysis role at a HF or fund manager?

2. What are the BO/risk roles like at HFs?

3. If you for a second presume i am good enough to be in IBD, what way would you go about it?

1. A lot of the sell side are moving into the buy side, but generally you would need to be Analyst III to Associate III before you are likely to be picked up at what I consider to be "entry level" for a fund. Yes a lot do have graduate programs but most people who join the buy side have 3+ years in sell side first. So I'd say work hard for the next two years and try and network with the community so that when you are suitably qualified, you can skip across.

2. I'm personally not quite sure, but unless the firm was large I'd be pretty sure that they are less well paid then at large banks where the volume of transactions is much higher. Risk however these days seems to be an entry role of choice for a lot of trading teams. The usual progression to PM in a fund is Research Analyst > Execution Trader > Portfolio Manager. With risk - I used the analogy recently of karate, I was chatting to a student who wanted to be a trader. He had little experience but interestingly he was a black belt in karate. I said you need to see trading these days like karate, not kick boxing. It used to be about maximum damage, maximum risk. These days it's more about blocking the moves, waiting for an opportunity and striking.

3. Never assume right ;) . I don't know how you would move into IBD from where you are now. If I were you, I would stick with risk, potentially aiming for trading or structuring as it's a great foundation.

    • 2
Apr 14, 2013

Out of curiosity, did you attend a UK university (presuming so because you said A-levels)? If so, which one?

Apr 17, 2013
simon-kemp:

Out of curiosity, did you attend a UK university (presuming so because you said A-levels)? If so, which one?

I did yes. Two in fact, but I dropped out of the first after 1 year to run my own business. For the second Uni, well let's just say it's non-target although its MBA business school was top 3 when I attended. It's not in the Russell Group and in 2012 was rated 25th in the UK and 334th in the World.

Apr 17, 2013

Thanks for getting back to me, I'm hopefully attending Warwick University next year so good to see a fellow British alumni on WSO. I managed to find out which uni you attended, I've heard good things about entrepreneurs coming out of there who have done very well.

Apr 29, 2013
simon-kemp:

Thanks for getting back to me, I'm hopefully attending Warwick University next year so good to see a fellow British alumni on WSO. I managed to find out which uni you attended, I've heard good things about entrepreneurs coming out of there who have done very well.

Yes, definitely does well on employability rankings thanks to the placement years. Still, it can't beat the London universities in terms of connections to the City.

    • 1
Apr 15, 2013

I wish I was in HongKong to have a chat with you. If you ever come to Beijing let me know! So my case, I am 29, still 2 more years to finish my PhD (civil engineering) and no previous experience. You said it is near impossible to break in at my age, the thing is I wasn't interested in Finance till last year. Any advice? Is the age less important in China?

Apr 17, 2013
zumbito:

I wish I was in HongKong to have a chat with you. If you ever come to Beijing let me know! So my case, I am 29, still 2 more years to finish my PhD (civil engineering) and no previous experience. You said it is near impossible to break in at my age, the thing is I wasn't interested in Finance till last year. Any advice? Is the age less important in China?

I may be there at some point this year. Will drop you a line. I'll be at the Hong Kong WSO social as well. Ok well, you're the same age as me, with a PhD even though it's not in a finance subject I imagine it's quite mathematical being engineering.

I would imagine that you would be attractive to sell side Research teams, these can be very well paid in banks (and very client facing) or in the buy side research is the first step before trading and Portfolio Management usually.

Age in China interestingly is important from a "face" perspective, hence I grow a beard as I've got a very "baby" face. But experience still trumps, so with local language skills and a PhD which everyone knows takes a long time, you still stand a good chance I would say. I meant that it's difficult to enter the business after 30 if you've spent the 5-7 years post graduation doing something completely different.

    • 1
Apr 21, 2013
perpetual:
zumbito:

I wish I was in HongKong to have a chat with you. If you ever come to Beijing let me know! So my case, I am 29, still 2 more years to finish my PhD (civil engineering) and no previous experience. You said it is near impossible to break in at my age, the thing is I wasn't interested in Finance till last year. Any advice? Is the age less important in China?

I may be there at some point this year. Will drop you a line. I'll be at the Hong Kong WSO social as well. Ok well, you're the same age as me, with a PhD even though it's not in a finance subject I imagine it's quite mathematical being engineering.

I would imagine that you would be attractive to sell side Research teams, these can be very well paid in banks (and very client facing) or in the buy side research is the first step before trading and Portfolio Management usually.

Age in China interestingly is important from a "face" perspective, hence I grow a beard as I've got a very "baby" face. But experience still trumps, so with local language skills and a PhD which everyone knows takes a long time, you still stand a good chance I would say. I meant that it's difficult to enter the business after 30 if you've spent the 5-7 years post graduation doing something completely different.

Thanks! Drop me a line whenever you come! About the PhD it is actually engineering management..

Apr 29, 2013
zumbito:
perpetual:
zumbito:

I wish I was in HongKong to have a chat with you. If you ever come to Beijing let me know! So my case, I am 29, still 2 more years to finish my PhD (civil engineering) and no previous experience. You said it is near impossible to break in at my age, the thing is I wasn't interested in Finance till last year. Any advice? Is the age less important in China?

I may be there at some point this year. Will drop you a line. I'll be at the Hong Kong WSO social as well. Ok well, you're the same age as me, with a PhD even though it's not in a finance subject I imagine it's quite mathematical being engineering.

I would imagine that you would be attractive to sell side Research teams, these can be very well paid in banks (and very client facing) or in the buy side research is the first step before trading and Portfolio Management usually.

Age in China interestingly is important from a "face" perspective, hence I grow a beard as I've got a very "baby" face. But experience still trumps, so with local language skills and a PhD which everyone knows takes a long time, you still stand a good chance I would say. I meant that it's difficult to enter the business after 30 if you've spent the 5-7 years post graduation doing something completely different.

Thanks! Drop me a line whenever you come! About the PhD it is actually engineering management..

Good luck with that, hope to catch up in person soon.

Apr 15, 2013

Thank you very much for your sharing. Could you pls recommend some books or sources that is intensively about sales skills/case studies as inS&T? Great thanks. And also, in work, female v.s. male, what would make/stop you like to help/work with a female as much as you do with a male? I feel difficulty socializing with guys colleagues in global markets department...

Apr 17, 2013
susanpeng3:

Thank you very much for your sharing. Could you pls recommend some books or sources that is intensively about sales skills/case studies as inS&T? Great thanks. And also, in work, female v.s. male, what would make/stop you like to help/work with a female as much as you do with a male? I feel difficulty socializing with guys colleagues in global markets department...

You know what, books that help to teach you sales skills are few and far between. The main one that another user mentioned is Dale Carnegie's "How to win friends and influence people". I generally read books on great leaders like Caesar, Alexander The Great and so forth and pick up leadership and influencing skills from those. Sales is primarily influencing. I have read most of the classic banking stories as well, and these are "fun" to read. They often stretch the truth though, or they describe a time that is no longer applicable. I also spend a lot of time reading marketing books.

Although I did a little browsing online and came across this list as being "great sales books for bankers".

Sales Science- David Newman
Guerilla Selling- Orvel Ray Wilson and William K Gallagher
The Idea-A-Day Guide to Super Selling- Tony Allesandra
The Greatest Salesman in the World- Og Mandino
Stop Telling, Start Selling- Linda Richardson
How to Become a Rainmaker- Jeffrey Fox
Socratic Selling- Kevin Daley
The Sales Bible- Jeffrey Gitomer
The Little Red Book of Selling- Jeffrey Gitomer
The Ultimate Sales Machine- Chet Holmes
Selling the Invisible- Harry Beckwith
What Clients Love- Harry Beckwith

I have no issue talking/working with women in work, I haven't come across that many but my last mentor in the sell side was female and I respected her greatly, she was considered one of the top women in banking in NY. Just be good at what you do and people will respect you male or female. If you really want to bond, drink with the boys and avoid any work intimacies :P

    • 1
May 10, 2013

thanks a lot!

Apr 15, 2013

Thank you for your time

Apr 17, 2013
The Biz Kid:

Thank you for your time

My pleasure :)

Apr 17, 2013

To everyone that has sent me a PM, I appreciate you wanting to hide sensitive information and therefore reaching out directly. My main focus is this thread however. I will try to get to the PMs over time, so forgive the delay.

Apr 18, 2013

Hi perpetual,

Thank you so much for starting this Q & A. I have a very simple question: since you have had many sales experiences and said that network is very important, is there any tip for networking? I am currently trying to network my way into an IBD job.

Apr 29, 2013
vana:

Hi perpetual,

Thank you so much for starting this Q & A. I have a very simple question: since you have had many sales experiences and said that network is very important, is there any tip for networking? I am currently trying to network my way into an IBD job.

Well - you generally need to find similar interests in order to connect with people, failing that destroy your liver and lungs ;) if you know what I mean. Works for me.

Apr 20, 2013

Thanks for coming on and answering our questions; my question is related to the question above.. what do you typically look for in a candidate during an informational or job interview? Is it their demeanor? Whether or not you like them or would want to work with them? Or their knowledge of the work/technical skills?

Apr 29, 2013
paradox13:

Thanks for coming on and answering our questions; my question is related to the question above.. what do you typically look for in a candidate during an informational or job interview? Is it their demeanor? Whether or not you like them or would want to work with them? Or their knowledge of the work/technical skills?

I generally ensure my juniors do the technical interviews, to see if they pass the basic knowledge/requirements of the role. Personally I believe that anyone can be taught/trained therefore aptitude for learning is more important.

Generally I am looking for good knowledge of the firm and what it's trying to achieve (sell side at least). A good awareness of the market and its movements along with implications of general events to the market. I am also looking at personality and fit - if I can't get along with them that's clearly a problem - and I'm very easy going. In essence I think to myself, would I enjoy socializing with this person outside of work.

I aim to hire candidates who are impressive yet modest and who turn the interview into a conversation rather then a Q&A.

Apr 24, 2013

Thanks brother and good luck on whatever you do, especially on creating a family. you have a huge heart and seem a genuine guy. god bless! in a sense you have broken the stereotype I had in mind for the people of your background. sometimes it takes a few words to change one's whole perception of certain things.

for all those who are wandering how to make others like you, as in the case of workplace or making good friends (I don't have experience in IB or in any position within the finance/investment domain for that matter.) and building long lasting relationships and in the end standing out from the crowd, I say:

be genuine, be you. respect yourself not love yourself. be comfortable with who you are and never sell your principles. have dignity. be humble and modest even if you think you've reached the sky ('sky' here it's a state of mind and might represent anything above the achievements of your peers, be it your friends, your team in school projects or at work.) don't talk behind people's backs. accept mistakes even if they don't honor you. don't avoid the consequences. learn from your mistakes don't consider them as failures. no one is and can never be perfect. don't look at every situation from the 'what do I get from this' perspective, sometimes you have to give without gaining anything. lead by example not by 'do as I say but not as I do'. when you follow, follow obediently, but always believe and keep in mind that one day you'll be leading and this is just a step on your path. don't be shortsighted. keep your word. think twice before you throw a promise. consider it as 'your word is your bond', don't break it. offer help if you can help when you see others need it, don't wait for them to ask you. and don't mention the favor afterwards. don't let anyone step on your toe. if you see and TRULY believe that something is not right, be it from your boss, professor or anyone, express your thoughts. be assertive when needed. that's how you gain respect. and if you gain respect you have built a good reputation around yourself: you have become trustworthy. and if people trust you they like you. and if they like you they'll do anything in their power to see you do well.

then again, building a strong reputation and standing out from the crowd is a long process but it can be ruined in a matter of seconds. think about it. who and what you want to be.

There are no great men, only great challenges that ordinary men are forced by circumstances to overcome.
-William F. Hasley

Apr 29, 2013
Brabus1:

Thanks brother and good luck on whatever you do, especially on creating a family. you have a huge heart and seem a genuine guy. god bless! in a sense you have broken the stereotype I had in mind for the people of your background. sometimes it takes a few words to change one's whole perception of certain things.

for all those who are wandering how to make others like you, as in the case of workplace or making good friends (I don't have experience in IB or in any position within the finance/investment domain for that matter.) and building long lasting relationships and in the end standing out from the crowd, I say:

be genuine, be you. respect yourself not love yourself. be comfortable with who you are and never sell your principles. have dignity. be humble and modest even if you think you've reached the sky ('sky' here it's a state of mind and might represent anything above the achievements of your peers, be it your friends, your team in school projects or at work.) don't talk behind people's backs. accept mistakes even if they don't honor you. don't avoid the consequences. learn from your mistakes don't consider them as failures. no one is and can never be perfect. don't look at every situation from the 'what do I get from this' perspective, sometimes you have to give without gaining anything. lead by example not by 'do as I say but not as I do'. when you follow, follow obediently, but always believe and keep in mind that one day you'll be leading and this is just a step on your path. don't be shortsighted. keep your word. think twice before you throw a promise. consider it as 'your word is your bond', don't break it. offer help if you can help when you see others need it, don't wait for them to ask you. and don't mention the favor afterwards. don't let anyone step on your toe. if you see and TRULY believe that something is not right, be it from your boss, professor or anyone, express your thoughts. be assertive when needed. that's how you gain respect. and if you gain respect you have built a good reputation around yourself: you have become trustworthy. and if people trust you they like you. and if they like you they'll do anything in their power to see you do well.

then again, building a strong reputation and standing out from the crowd is a long process but it can be ruined in a matter of seconds. think about it. who and what you want to be.

Good advice for everyone. Thanks :)

Apr 24, 2013

Wow, this is amazing, thank you so much for doing this!

I concur with the previous posts - would like to hear your tips about networking. Also since you've already an MD and are under 30, what do you achieve next?

Hope can see you at the HK WSO social one day :)

The Auto Show

Apr 29, 2013
huanleshalemei:

Wow, this is amazing, thank you so much for doing this!

I concur with the previous posts - would like to hear your tips about networking. Also since you've already an MD and are under 30, what do you achieve next?

Hope can see you at the HK WSO social one day :)

Well hopefully I answered the networking tips in my earlier post :) What do I achieve next - well retirement by 40 is the goal - whether I run a bed and breakfast in Italy or a bar here in Asia well, let's see how stressful the next 10 years are.

I should be in NY for the annual conference if you will be around for that - if not, I'll always do my best to attend the HK forum if you're ever in this neck of the woods.

    • 1
Apr 26, 2013

Hi. Thank you very much for taking the time out of your no doubt busy day to answer questions. It is much appreciated!

I wanted to get your thoughts on sales and trading, specifically sales and its future. I know that the trading side is tending towards increased automation and that many think that hi-touch will become obsolete in the future, especially for non-derivative products (cash equities, etc). I'm about to start a career in s&t and I'm leaning towards the sales side. What do you think of the future of sales (I hope to get into FICC) vs trading? Thank you very much.

Apr 29, 2013
s.ratnasw:

Hi. Thank you very much for taking the time out of your no doubt busy day to answer questions. It is much appreciated!

I wanted to get your thoughts on sales and trading, specifically sales and its future. I know that the trading side is tending towards increased automation and that many think that hi-touch will become obsolete in the future, especially for non-derivative products (cash equities, etc). I'm about to start a career in s&t and I'm leaning towards the sales side. What do you think of the future of sales (I hope to get into FICC) vs trading? Thank you very much.

I agree with your points that the S&T will increasingly become more automated to the extent that it's a user driven experience. However, I don't expect "robots" to take over for at least another 15 years given that most banks I've worked at spent years just getting simple FX ecom platforms out. So try to make enough money in that time - the natural move for sales would be to coverage.

Apr 27, 2013

Thank you so much for you Q&A, I have gained a lot of useful information from it.
I am now an undergraduate student in final year and about to begin a career as a assitant trader in financial derivatives trading in a local security firm in China. Because the market in China is still tightly regulated, the job I do is kind of low-risk and low-tech. Therefore, I am dreaming of being a trader in international BBs and wiling to purse further education to better prepare me for it.
I am now about to hold two bachelor degrees in Math&Econ. Could you please give me some advice on further edcation choices that will help me fulfill my dream?
Furthermore, what necessary talents do you think a good trader should have?
Good at financial modeling and programming.(Will this be necessary for all kinds of traders?)
Good at math.
Have a good instinct of market.
or anything else?
Last, I am also dying to know information about trader careers now in the US, or say, in the international banks.
Since there are several kinds of traders, if categoried by stuffs they are trading, there are FX, Fixed Income, derivatives, etc. What's their daily life and what kind of different talents will they require?
Sorry for asking so many questions...
Thank you for your time!

Never say never.

Apr 29, 2013
Ziggy Lu:

Thank you so much for you Q&A, I have gained a lot of useful information from it.
I am now an undergraduate student in final year and about to begin a career as a assitant trader in financial derivatives trading in a local security firm in China. Because the market in China is still tightly regulated, the job I do is kind of low-risk and low-tech. Therefore, I am dreaming of being a trader in international BBs and wiling to purse further education to better prepare me for it.
I am now about to hold two bachelor degrees in Math&Econ. Could you please give me some advice on further edcation choices that will help me fulfill my dream?
Furthermore, what necessary talents do you think a good trader should have?
Good at financial modeling and programming.(Will this be necessary for all kinds of traders?)
Good at math.
Have a good instinct of market.
or anything else?
Last, I am also dying to know information about trader careers now in the US, or say, in the international banks.
Since there are several kinds of traders, if categoried by stuffs they are trading, there are FX, Fixed Income, derivatives, etc. What's their daily life and what kind of different talents will they require?
Sorry for asking so many questions...
Thank you for your time!

I think you will be surprised how quickly China banks ramp up - especially given the favourable policies being put in place by Central Govt. Skipping to a BB that has an interest in RMB either in Shanghai or HK should be quite straightforward down the line assuming you have the language skills as well. Careers abroad may need to wait until you have far more experience unless you want to do an international graduate program. In terms of further education, a Masters in Finance or an MBA might be good choices but do yourself a favour and go to the best school you can get into, this will help a lot in terms of new opportunities.

In terms of skills for a trader - good maths, a quick wit and fast with a mouse :) Financial modeling and programming are useful as well, especially on a derivs or structuring desk. The different talents for different products I think comes down to different knowledge - key skill sets should be the same. Some are more mathematical then others depending on complexity of the product. In terms of daily life, depends on prop or market maker - but most work the same hours as the market is open. Im sure you can find plenty "Day in the Life of" guides online to give you some more interesting and probably humourous facts.

Apr 29, 2013
perpetual:
Ziggy Lu:

Thank you so much for you Q&A, I have gained a lot of useful information from it.
I am now an undergraduate student in final year and about to begin a career as a assitant trader in financial derivatives trading in a local security firm in China. Because the market in China is still tightly regulated, the job I do is kind of low-risk and low-tech. Therefore, I am dreaming of being a trader in international BBs and wiling to purse further education to better prepare me for it.
I am now about to hold two bachelor degrees in Math&Econ. Could you please give me some advice on further edcation choices that will help me fulfill my dream?
Furthermore, what necessary talents do you think a good trader should have?
Good at financial modeling and programming.(Will this be necessary for all kinds of traders?)
Good at math.
Have a good instinct of market.
or anything else?
Last, I am also dying to know information about trader careers now in the US, or say, in the international banks.
Since there are several kinds of traders, if categoried by stuffs they are trading, there are FX, Fixed Income, derivatives, etc. What's their daily life and what kind of different talents will they require?
Sorry for asking so many questions...
Thank you for your time!

I think you will be surprised how quickly China banks ramp up - especially given the favourable policies being put in place by Central Govt. Skipping to a BB that has an interest in RMB either in Shanghai or HK should be quite straightforward down the line assuming you have the language skills as well. Careers abroad may need to wait until you have far more experience unless you want to do an international graduate program. In terms of further education, a Masters in Finance or an MBA might be good choices but do yourself a favour and go to the best school you can get into, this will help a lot in terms of new opportunities.

In terms of skills for a trader - good maths, a quick wit and fast with a mouse :) Financial modeling and programming are useful as well, especially on a derivs or structuring desk. The different talents for different products I think comes down to different knowledge - key skill sets should be the same. Some are more mathematical then others depending on complexity of the product. In terms of daily life, depends on prop or market maker - but most work the same hours as the market is open. Im sure you can find plenty "Day in the Life of" guides online to give you some more interesting and probably humourous facts.

Thank you so much for your quick reply!
If I am not mistaking, you are now in Singapore, right? Actually I exchanged to SMU last summer and paid a visit to Tanjong Paga and Marina Bay, where I saw countless finance institutions, big or small names. I guess maybe we once passed through each other on some main street of Singapore(given the small country :P) or have met on the hedge fund forum held in SMU last year.
The dream of being a trader was setted at that time because in my view, trading is a job requiring both intelligence and intuition, and that can be fascinating.
It's encouraging to see your optimistic expectation of the Chinese market, and I am also honored to make contributions(though little) to this historical transition.
Thank you again!

Never say never.

Apr 29, 2013
Ziggy Lu:
perpetual:
Ziggy Lu:

Thank you so much for you Q&A, I have gained a lot of useful information from it.
I am now an undergraduate student in final year and about to begin a career as a assitant trader in financial derivatives trading in a local security firm in China. Because the market in China is still tightly regulated, the job I do is kind of low-risk and low-tech. Therefore, I am dreaming of being a trader in international BBs and wiling to purse further education to better prepare me for it.
I am now about to hold two bachelor degrees in Math&Econ. Could you please give me some advice on further edcation choices that will help me fulfill my dream?
Furthermore, what necessary talents do you think a good trader should have?
Good at financial modeling and programming.(Will this be necessary for all kinds of traders?)
Good at math.
Have a good instinct of market.
or anything else?
Last, I am also dying to know information about trader careers now in the US, or say, in the international banks.
Since there are several kinds of traders, if categoried by stuffs they are trading, there are FX, Fixed Income, derivatives, etc. What's their daily life and what kind of different talents will they require?
Sorry for asking so many questions...
Thank you for your time!

I think you will be surprised how quickly China banks ramp up - especially given the favourable policies being put in place by Central Govt. Skipping to a BB that has an interest in RMB either in Shanghai or HK should be quite straightforward down the line assuming you have the language skills as well. Careers abroad may need to wait until you have far more experience unless you want to do an international graduate program. In terms of further education, a Masters in Finance or an MBA might be good choices but do yourself a favour and go to the best school you can get into, this will help a lot in terms of new opportunities.

In terms of skills for a trader - good maths, a quick wit and fast with a mouse :) Financial modeling and programming are useful as well, especially on a derivs or structuring desk. The different talents for different products I think comes down to different knowledge - key skill sets should be the same. Some are more mathematical then others depending on complexity of the product. In terms of daily life, depends on prop or market maker - but most work the same hours as the market is open. Im sure you can find plenty "Day in the Life of" guides online to give you some more interesting and probably humourous facts.

Thank you so much for your quick reply!
If I am not mistaking, you are now in Singapore, right? Actually I exchanged to SMU last summer and paid a visit to Tanjong Paga and Marina Bay, where I saw countless finance institutions, big or small names. I guess maybe we once passed through each other on some main street of Singapore(given the small country :P) or have met on the hedge fund forum held in SMU last year.
The dream of being a trader was setted at that time because in my view, trading is a job requiring both intelligence and intuition, and that can be fascinating.
It's encouraging to see your optimistic expectation of the Chinese market, and I am also honored to make contributions(though little) to this historical transition.
Thank you again!

Maybe we did :) I used to be in Spore, but back in HK now :)

Apr 29, 2013

Sorry for the delay in answering questions - I've had lots of PMs I've been slowly working through. Again, unless you want to share confidential information I would rather you post the questions here. Thanks again for everyone who has got involved in the discussion so far.

Feel free to help me get the discussion up the rankings, if you think the information is useful :)

Apr 29, 2013

Thanks for great info

Apr 29, 2013
frooter:

Thanks for great info

My pleasure, thanks for reading :)

May 14, 2013

I really appreciate you taking the time to do this.
Current 2nd Year/ Sophomore
I will be interning in SG/HK at a BB this summer doing a FO Summer Analyst role (Non IB/S&T/ER). Not sure if you know much about internal mobility, but I will be networking hard to try and enter the process in order to get something like IBD.

Speaking to other professionals, I heard that networking in Asia is a lot different than in the UK or US. To give you an example, its a lot harder to be direct and offer something such as picking coffee up for them (example given to me). How much of that is true? I think I'll probably be trying to network with people who grew up and studied in Asia .

If you have any information on mobility, I would also greatly appreciate it!

May 15, 2013
sghkbanker:

I really appreciate you taking the time to do this.
Current 2nd Year/ Sophomore
I will be interning in SG/HK at a BB this summer doing a FO Summer Analyst role (Non IB/S&T/ER). Not sure if you know much about internal mobility, but I will be networking hard to try and enter the process in order to get something like IBD.

Speaking to other professionals, I heard that networking in Asia is a lot different than in the UK or US. To give you an example, its a lot harder to be direct and offer something such as picking coffee up for them (example given to me). How much of that is true? I think I'll probably be trying to network with people who grew up and studied in Asia .

If you have any information on mobility, I would also greatly appreciate it!

Why don't you drop me a PM with more details on where you will be working etc, I can probably give you some contacts to start you off and more specific advice otherwise.

May 16, 2013

hi perpetual,

are you in Shanghai anytime soon.?I am US BB Sales Junior who is on holidays here in SH, would be great to meet up with you have time.... Let me know!

Jun 5, 2013
bigt:

hi perpetual,

are you in Shanghai anytime soon.?I am US BB Sales Junior who is on holidays here in SH, would be great to meet up with you have time.... Let me know!

I should be up there later this year. Drop me a PM with your email and we can stay in touch that way.

May 19, 2013

First and foremost, thanks so much for taking the time to respond to everyone's questions, as often as people don't say, i'm sure we're all very appreciative of your words of wisdom.

Quick question from me. As a junior who have just started in the industry, I always find it difficult to talk/network with colleagues who are older than me in both formal and informal settings. Are there any advice or any general openings that we can initiate with new work colleagues? How do you break the ice?

Thanks in advance.

Jun 5, 2013
Estinox:

First and foremost, thanks so much for taking the time to respond to everyone's questions, as often as people don't say, i'm sure we're all very appreciative of your words of wisdom.

Quick question from me. As a junior who have just started in the industry, I always find it difficult to talk/network with colleagues who are older than me in both formal and informal settings. Are there any advice or any general openings that we can initiate with new work colleagues? How do you break the ice?

Thanks in advance.

Well, other then drinking/smoking you need to find common interest or perhaps have someone else do the introduction. They are people at the end of the day, just go for it, perhaps even jump into a conversation you might overhear (with a "forgive me for interrupting but I overheard and in my opinion...). It's funny I usually have problems socially interacting with people who are younger then me, but have no trouble with those older.

May 20, 2013

how much do you earn?

Jun 5, 2013
ericafor:

how much do you earn?

Contractually I'm not allowed to discuss this, however, to give you an idea I have a USD six figure basic salary and my bonus target is USD seven figures.

May 30, 2013

This is a fantastic thread, thanks for your answers!

I am in the last year of my degree in the UK, and am interested in being a trader. I have not applied to too many places, and the closest I got was was an interview with a Dutch prop firm which flew me over after I passed the maths testing. They were not convinced I really wanted to be a trader. To be honest, I don't entirely know myself. I'd never say it in an interview but I'm not sure - my eye is as likely to be caught by an opportunity at a startup doing something totally different as it is by another trading opening. And I guess this must have come through in some way during my interview.

If you met someone who didn't have the overwhelming passion for the job you want to see, but viewed it as an option (among many potential post-college careers) that could grow on them and become a passion, while maintaining they were willing to work their ass off and would be very good at the job, what would you say to them? Apply when you're convinced, stop being naive and thinking anything other than looking like you'd kill for the gig will get you the job?

I've done work experience in a small hedge fund in Singapore, and met a lot of very interesting people in my time there. And came out of it genuinely interested, but by no means convinced. I just know that I'm looking for a job that will be extremely intellectually challenging and that I will work hard. Thought it would be interesting to get your views on someone like me - this is the sort of question I could never ask at a networking session: hugely open-ended and non-commital. But its great to be able to speak to someone who has a sincere interest in talking to people of different backgrounds and mindsets as they look to enter the industry. Feel free to be as critical (or otherwise) as you please! Thanks!

Jun 5, 2013
zwergartig:

This is a fantastic thread, thanks for your answers!

I am in the last year of my degree in the UK, and am interested in being a trader. I have not applied to too many places, and the closest I got was was an interview with a Dutch prop firm which flew me over after I passed the maths testing. They were not convinced I really wanted to be a trader. To be honest, I don't entirely know myself. I'd never say it in an interview but I'm not sure - my eye is as likely to be caught by an opportunity at a startup doing something totally different as it is by another trading opening. And I guess this must have come through in some way during my interview.

If you met someone who didn't have the overwhelming passion for the job you want to see, but viewed it as an option (among many potential post-college careers) that could grow on them and become a passion, while maintaining they were willing to work their ass off and would be very good at the job, what would you say to them? Apply when you're convinced, stop being naive and thinking anything other than looking like you'd kill for the gig will get you the job?

I've done work experience in a small hedge fund in Singapore, and met a lot of very interesting people in my time there. And came out of it genuinely interested, but by no means convinced. I just know that I'm looking for a job that will be extremely intellectually challenging and that I will work hard. Thought it would be interesting to get your views on someone like me - this is the sort of question I could never ask at a networking session: hugely open-ended and non-commital. But its great to be able to speak to someone who has a sincere interest in talking to people of different backgrounds and mindsets as they look to enter the industry. Feel free to be as critical (or otherwise) as you please! Thanks!

Sounds like Optiver. It's ok to not be sure what you want to do, but you're going to have to decide soon. As you said a lot of people will sell their cat to get into finance so you really need to show "commitment to career" at interview level as I have spoken about in earlier posts. So you're best bet is to pretend commitment if you're still not sure, ideally get an offer and then you can weigh up your options if you get multiple offers from different types of careers. But someone people will read though the insincerity. End of the day if you're not very passionate about the job - then why are you interested, is it the money? Again, look back through some of my posts on the 1st page as I have discussed this concept as well at length. Best of luck.

Jun 5, 2013

What is your interaction like with the research division?

What advice do you have for recent grads?

Jun 5, 2013
moca88:

What is your interaction like with the research division?

What advice do you have for recent grads?

With the research team at my current firm, they are the same as the PMs so I have daily interaction with them and have access to their reports etc. In the sell side, my interaction with research was more to ensure they were covering the right clients and using their access abilities. What advice do I have for recent grads - well that's a bit broad, top of my head, get a job quickly that you enjoy as the market is tough out there and you may have to settle for less at the beginning to reach your eventual goal.

Jun 5, 2013

Event: Wall Street Oasis // Hong Kong Social
Date: Friday 21st June, 2013
Time: 18:00 - 22:00

Venue: Club 97, Shop 2, 9 Lan Kwai Fong, Central
Restrictions: 18+

I am proud to host my first Wall Street Oasis Hong Kong social. I am tailoring this event for aspiring professionals and those who've already made it. So for those of you that want to join the business, this will be a fantastic opportunity to meet current professionals. I have called up my friends here in Hong Kong and among those attending from bulge bracket and boutiques will be people in:

+ Investment Banking
+ Corporate Finance
+ Sales & Trading
+ Transaction Banking
+ Operations
+ Hedge Funds
+ Asset Management
+ Private Equity
+ Finance Headhunting
+ Finance Law
+ Accounting

The bar will be running 2-4-1 on draught beer, house mixers and wine from 6-10pm and additionally you will receive a free welcome shot for showing me a print out of your Wall Street Oasis membership status.

For those of you with a Facebook account, you can show your interest here:

https://www.facebook.com/events/130285487176661/

I'm looking forward to welcoming you all in person on the night.

Regards,

perpetual

Jun 5, 2013
perpetual:

Event: Wall Street Oasis // Hong Kong Social
Date: Friday 21st June, 2013
Time: 18:00 - 22:00

Venue: Club 97, Shop 2, 9 Lan Kwai Fong, Central
Restrictions: 18+

I am proud to host my first Wall Street Oasis Hong Kong social. I am tailoring this event for aspiring professionals and those who've already made it. So for those of you that want to join the business, this will be a fantastic opportunity to meet current professionals. I have called up my friends here in Hong Kong and among those attending from bulge bracket and boutiques will be people in:

+ Investment Banking
+ Corporate Finance
+ Sales & Trading
+ Transaction Banking
+ Operations
+ Hedge Funds
+ Asset Management
+ Private Equity
+ Finance Headhunting
+ Finance Law
+ Accounting

The bar will be running 2-4-1 on draught beer, house mixers and wine from 6-10pm and additionally you will receive a free welcome shot for showing me a print out of your Wall Street Oasis membership status.

For those of you with a Facebook account, you can show your interest here:

https://www.facebook.com/events/130285487176661/

I'm looking forward to welcoming you all in person on the night.

Regards,

perpetual

Wow great job putting this together. If this goes well perhaps next up Patrick can consider creating a HK version of the WSO Conference?

Jun 6, 2013

Thanks brandon st randy, I thought it was a good idea to bring professionals and aspiring ones together. Most of the professionals are glad to be meeting up and coming stars anyway as they don't normally get the access, they are cut out by hiring managers or HR unless they are senior roles. The boutique people were particularly excited but let's see the turnout. Could end up with more professionals then grads/analysts. I have additionally sent out invitations to the finance societies of the HK universities to try and increase awareness of WSO.

Jun 6, 2013
perpetual:

Event: Wall Street Oasis // Hong Kong Social
Date: Friday 21st June, 2013
Time: 18:00 - 22:00

Venue: Club 97, Shop 2, 9 Lan Kwai Fong, Central
Restrictions: 18+

I am proud to host my first Wall Street Oasis Hong Kong social. I am tailoring this event for aspiring professionals and those who've already made it. So for those of you that want to join the business, this will be a fantastic opportunity to meet current professionals. I have called up my friends here in Hong Kong and among those attending from bulge bracket and boutiques will be people in:

+ Investment Banking
+ Corporate Finance
+ Sales & Trading
+ Transaction Banking
+ Operations
+ Hedge Funds
+ Asset Management
+ Private Equity
+ Finance Headhunting
+ Finance Law
+ Accounting

The bar will be running 2-4-1 on draught beer, house mixers and wine from 6-10pm and additionally you will receive a free welcome shot for showing me a print out of your Wall Street Oasis membership status.

For those of you with a Facebook account, you can show your interest here:

https://www.facebook.com/events/130285487176661/

I'm looking forward to welcoming you all in person on the night.

Regards,

perpetual

Aww..crappers, I won't be back in town yet. Hopefully there'll be another one soon.

Jun 5, 2013

Thank you for all your help, You've been a tremendous asset. I was hoping you could comment on difference in the recruitment process between Asian and North America from your experience.

Jun 6, 2013

It's interesting I was asked a very specific question on whether I knew the management consultancy firms in Toronto. Other than knowing the big names I decided to have a look and thought I would post the results here as there may be others interested in management consulting in Toronto. I can't promise I can find the same for other cities though :P

http://www.consultingcase101.com/list-of-consultin...

Accenture
Affiliated Computer Services (ACS)
Alexander Proudfoot
Alvarez & Marsal
Aon Consulting
Archstone Consulting
A.T. Kearney
Avanade
Bain & Company
BMC Software Consulting
Boston Consulting Group (BCG)
BPI Group
Buck Consultants
CapGemini
Capco
CCS Fundraising
CGI
Charles River Associates (CRA)
CIBER
Cognizant
Computer Associates
Computer Sciences Corporation (CSC)
Corporate Executive Board
Courtyard Group
Deloitte Consulting
Egon Zehnder International
ENVIRON
Everest Group
Ernst & Young
Fidelity Consulting Group
Forum Corporation
Frost & Sullivan
FTI Consulting
Fujitsu Consulting
Gartner
Gallup Consulting
Global Intelligence Alliance
Grant Thornton
Greenwich Associates
Harris & Associates
Hay Group
Hewitt Associates
Hill & Knowlton
ICF International
IMS Health
Infosys Consulting
Jefferson Wells International
Kaiser Associates
Kantar Health
Keane
KPMG Consulting
Leigh Fisher Associates
Logica
Manpower
Marketbridge
McKinsey & Company
Mercer Consulting
Millward Brown
Monitor Group
Navigant Consulting
NERA Economic Consulting
Novantas
Oliver Wyman
Omnex
Plutus Consulting Group
PriceWaterhouseCoopers (PwC)
Protiviti
Quint Wellington Redwood Group
Resources Global Professionals
RHR International
Robert Half International
Rosetta
Russell Reynolds Associates
SAP Consulting
Sapient
SECOR
Segal Company
SFN Group
Sibson Consulting
Tata Consultancy Services
Towers Watson
TPI
Unisys Consulting
West Monroe Partners
Wipro Technologies
ZS Associates

Jun 6, 2013

I'm interested in your ability to quickly rise through an otherwise stagnant promotion structure of a BB IB. Specificly examples of things you did to help you get those promotions.

I know you said mutlipule times that you "worked hard" but so do a great deal of IB analyst. I'm sure it couldn't have been that you put in 115 hour weeks when your fellow analysts were putting in 100 so I doubt any MD would notice.

Were there specific instances or examples of things you did to set yourself apart? Could you attribute it (atleast partially) to luck? I'm interested to hear how you set yourself apart as an analyst/associate in an already hyper competitive enviroment.

Jun 9, 2013
SHB:

I'm interested in your ability to quickly rise through an otherwise stagnant promotion structure of a BB IB. Specificly examples of things you did to help you get those promotions.

I know you said mutlipule times that you "worked hard" but so do a great deal of IB analyst. I'm sure it couldn't have been that you put in 115 hour weeks when your fellow analysts were putting in 100 so I doubt any MD would notice.

Were there specific instances or examples of things you did to set yourself apart? Could you attribute it (atleast partially) to luck? I'm interested to hear how you set yourself apart as an analyst/associate in an already hyper competitive enviroment.

I agree with HSB. I would like to know these things also if you don't mind.

Aug 16, 2013

All,

Sorry I've been absent for a bit, have been busy fighting some internal politics with my offshore teams and streamlining the organization. I started marketing for our new funds on Wednesday and already got my first deal from a fund platform. So i'm pretty happy. Just 2,000 more clients in Europe to get through, then the US to start worrying about. I just started working with our lawyers for SEC registration.

On that note, I will be traveling quite extensively in October and November and will have a little free time in the evening here and there to meet up with any one that is interested.

London: 13th - 19th October
Luxembourg & Switzerland: 20th - 26th October
Boston: 27th - 30th October
New York: 31st - 2nd November
Dubai: 16th - 23rd November

So let me know if any of you are interested in catching up for a beer.

Sep 1, 2013

Hi Perpetual,

Any chance that you might be in Tokyo?

Would love to have a chat :)

Sep 15, 2013

When's a good time to catch up for drinks in HK? I'll be back in about 3 weeks.

Sep 5, 2013

Nothing planned at the moment but might be there early next year.

Sep 9, 2013

Great! I'll send you a message towards the end of the year then.

Sep 9, 2013

For those of you interested in internships I've just started a WSO Internship competition. You can read more here:

//www.wallstreetoasis.com/jobs/internship-competitio...

Oct 3, 2013

Great thread!

I'm a UK uni student from on a placement year in Malaysia, trying to decide whether to stay the full 12 months out here or mix it up elsewhere with two 6 month stints if the opportunity arises.

Visited HK two months back and can safely say it is one of my favourite places I've visited in the world, Lan Kawi Fong has an amazing atmosphere to it!

My question, away from the finance side of things: How did you find the change of culture moving from Europe to Asia? I veered away from banking by taking an insurance job out here, which I could well live to regret in terms of breaking into finance, but in terms of life experience I have found it to be incredible.

A second Q, how often do you travel?

Finally, favourite country in SE Asia?

If you ever happen to visit the dive that is KL please say so.

Also I would say another event either side of HK sevens is a must, so excited for 7s!

Sep 11, 2013

Impressive!
I just got my master degree of accounting from an average university and I'm now an accountant at an insurance company. Will you recommend me to get another master degree in finance if I want to shift my career into typical finance function? If you don't recommend, could you please give me some advice on how to make that change happen? My short-term goal is to be a FA in wealth management. I'm 24 yrs old. CFA level II passed.

Nov 26, 2013

I just arrived in Shanghai and will be here til Friday evening if anyone wants to meet up. Just PM me your details and I'll get in touch.

Dec 6, 2013

How did you like the air pollution while you were there?

Dec 10, 2013
Zargo:

How did you like the air pollution while you were there?

I got lucky, had two grey days then lovely clear skies.

Jan 2, 2014

Any chance you'll come to Chicago? I'd love to chat with you in person if you would be in town. :D

Jan 2, 2014
wannabe2015:

Any chance you'll come to Chicago? I'd love to chat with you in person if you would be in town. :D

It's not on my travel plans for this year yet, but who knows if an investor from there wants to meet. This year in terms of my US travel schedule from whats been confirmed, I'll be in Las Vegas 13-16 May for SALT 2014 and in California and NY for a week each in September. So if any of those locations/times are convenient and you happen to be there or passing through I can find time to catch up and have a coffee or beer :)

Jan 2, 2014

Any chance you will come to Taipei? I would love to sit down and grab a coffee or drink with you.

Jan 2, 2014
gohawkss:

Any chance you will come to Taipei? I would love to sit down and grab a coffee or drink with you.

Sure it's very likely i'll be there at some point this year, drop me a PM and then I can keep you informed as to when I expect to be there.

Jan 2, 2014

If you don't mind sharing, which university did you go, what course did you study and what did you achieve in your A-Levels?

Do you think, say coming from University of Manchester studying Chemistry, achieving AAC in A-levels would be fine to try and get into this sort of industry?

Jan 3, 2014
JammieDodger:

If you don't mind sharing, which university did you go, what course did you study and what did you achieve in your A-Levels?

Do you think, say coming from University of Manchester studying Chemistry, achieving AAC in A-levels would be fine to try and get into this sort of industry?

I attended a university in the West Midlands. I changed course quite a bit, (trying to get more on to programs which allowed unit self selection as I was working FT in London - just turned up for my exams), but i ended up with a 2.1 in Management (just, 58% and it was rounded up) and for my A-levels I got ABBB (Business, English, History, General Studies - which doesn't really count).

I've always said that any "proper" degree should be fine, AAC also fine although come up with a reason for the C.

Generally I would say that management/business/economics degrees tend to help in showing why you are interested in finance, so with Chemistry you'll have to show why now, you've changed your focus. Now if it was Alchemy instead ;)

Jan 2, 2014

I am about to commence my honours year and still need to choose a topic, I want a topic that will be a good talking point in interviews and relevant to banks/funds.

I was thinking of emerging markets (probably China or Brazil) with a focus on the use of derivatives use their (exotic options, vanilla, futures, forwards etc.), it obviously has to be a lot more specific than a country and a derivative..do you have any suggestions for a topic? Based on the fact that you live in Hong Kong and you are involved in trading.

Also from your general scope of the industry in Hong Kong, are there many Australians there?

Jan 2, 2014
AmbitionandDrive:

I am about to commence my honours year and still need to choose a topic, I want a topic that will be a good talking point in interviews and relevant to banks/funds.

I was thinking of emerging markets (probably China or Brazil) with a focus on the use of derivatives use their (exotic options, vanilla, futures, forwards etc.), it obviously has to be a lot more specific than a country and a derivative..do you have any suggestions for a topic? Based on the fact that you live in Hong Kong and you are involved in trading.

Also from your general scope of the industry in Hong Kong, are there many Australians there?

Not familiar with the concept of picking a topic, is this for something like a dissertation?

The EM markets are widely written about and focused on in banking/Asset Management so that will naturally help for you to find discussion points but if you wanted to go out of the box look at the Frontier Markets / Frontier Markets becoming EM e.g. Qatar and UAE were recently upgraded to EM from Frontier. I was in Dubai for FundForum Middle East in November and it was all the rage discussing Frontier to EM etc (http://www.cnbc.com/id/100809850)

What are the implications in terms of investment into regions as a result of upgrades/downgrades, market changes, access to new products, perhaps that would be interesting?

In terms of Australians in Hong Kong there are loads, lots in IB as well.

Jan 2, 2014

Interesting, I wasn't aware of Frontier Markets. I will look into them, thanks for the article.

It is basically a dissertation that you only work on for 6 months. My honours program is one semester coursework and one semester research (dissertation).

I like that idea of studying the effect of new products being introduced to a emerging/frontier market. Not quite sure if it will be mathematical enough for my professor though. Do you know of any new products emerging that have a specific mechanism that you think would be interesting mathematically?

Jan 3, 2014
AmbitionandDrive:

Interesting, I wasn't aware of Frontier Markets. I will look into them, thanks for the article.

It is basically a dissertation that you only work on for 6 months. My honours program is one semester coursework and one semester research (dissertation).

I like that idea of studying the effect of new products being introduced to a emerging/frontier market. Not quite sure if it will be mathematical enough for my professor though. Do you know of any new products emerging that have a specific mechanism that you think would be interesting mathematically?

Well, the products we run here are quite straightforward, long only and long/short equity funds. But thinking about it, and I'm sure there are structurers on here who could give a better answer, but what about derivs that allow investors to get access to frontier markets (without the liquidity premiums - obv through Middle East it's a commodity play or Argentina but look at CEE, Greek just got downgraded from Developed to EM as well).

Alternatively perhaps an option which bets on whether a country will become EM or not. I.e. what are the implications if a country becomes EM or developed for that matter to the industries that rely on them, should companies be hedging incase market status and the implications come to pass if so how do you model an option on whether it changes status or not.

As in the article - "The upgrade may offer support to prices in the near term, but its real value will be if it encourages market reform and development over the long term. In particular, I'll be hoping to see higher liquidity, more institutional investors, and a rise in the number of firms listing."

So i imagine in a sense you are looking at liquidity risk deriv on an event option structure.

Jan 3, 2014
AmbitionandDrive:

Interesting, I wasn't aware of Frontier Markets. I will look into them, thanks for the article.

It is basically a dissertation that you only work on for 6 months. My honours program is one semester coursework and one semester research (dissertation).

I like that idea of studying the effect of new products being introduced to a emerging/frontier market. Not quite sure if it will be mathematical enough for my professor though. Do you know of any new products emerging that have a specific mechanism that you think would be interesting mathematically?

Perhaps this paper might help

https://www.google.com.hk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s...

Also MSCI list of Frontier Markets

http://www.msci.com/products/indices/tools/index_c...

Jan 3, 2014

Thank you very much for your thoughts. I don't have time to read the article and have a good think about it today but I will shoot you a PM within a few days after I have thought about it. I am liking your ideas.

Your time is much appreciated, thanks again.

Jan 3, 2014

Thank you for taking the time out to answer questions. Reading all of the responses are truly helpful.

You mentioned that you sort of fell into banking. When you took the data entry job and opportunities in other areas began to present themselves, how did you manage to get caught up with understanding the market? Did you already have an understanding going into the position, or did you just learn on the job?

As far as forward progress, what kind of goals did you set for youself in the earlier stages of your career? As you rapidly advanced through the ranks, how did those goals change?

Thank you for your insight!

Jan 8, 2014
kedwards33:

Thank you for taking the time out to answer questions. Reading all of the responses are truly helpful.

You mentioned that you sort of fell into banking. When you took the data entry job and opportunities in other areas began to present themselves, how did you manage to get caught up with understanding the market? Did you already have an understanding going into the position, or did you just learn on the job?

As far as forward progress, what kind of goals did you set for youself in the earlier stages of your career? As you rapidly advanced through the ranks, how did those goals change?

Thank you for your insight!

It wasn't really that opportunities presented themselves, more that I took advantage of the situation. In essence I was typing client details into databases etc, and with it being the 07 crisis a lot of people were being knocked off, so one day the MD came to me and asked if I could create an "Account Plan" given that I had been typing all the data in anyway, asking the additional information, it meant interviewing the sponsors and sales about the account. So i just went in with a set of questions asking them all about the account not really understanding what they were talking about, but copying anyway. After that I was asked if I would rather do account plans then data entry and they could find someone else for that, I agreed, but did the data entry and plans all the same as I was efficient. That was my first step into "Relationship Management" that would eventually lead to me talking to clients a few years later, after bringing a few of my own to the bank.

Understanding was very much a learning by doing, reading all the fiction and non-fiction books on the industry I could and just wanting to learn. Slowly and surely you build the knowledge. I'm still learning now, and once in a while I get a eureka moment "oh, i finally get it".

I didn't have really goals per se, I wanted to beat the trend on youngest MD, and eventually have lots of cash for a supercar, yacht and villa . Well i made MD equivalent at 29 so now I'm just pushing for the money and enjoyment :) Saving up for a house, and maybe i'll just rent a yacht when I need instead.

In terms of the car I've had a few, and settled for one that I like, rather then one everyone wants :)

Jan 3, 2014

All things being equal, which of the following 2 positions will you choose? a) Business advisory/hedge fund consulting in Prime Brokerage b)FX e-commerce sales to corporate treasuries

Ultimate goal will obviously be to get into higher figures at the earliest.

Jan 8, 2014
archieandrews33:

All things being equal, which of the following 2 positions will you choose? a) Business advisory/hedge fund consulting in Prime Brokerage b)FX e-commerce sales to corporate treasuries

Ultimate goal will obviously be to get into higher figures at the earliest.

Sorry for the delay getting back to you, I spoke to a few friends about this. It depends what you want really, FX e-com sales will be more "sexy", probably better bonuses but less stable, being e-com sales eventually it will just be terminal to terminal or trader to terminal. I find that my friends who do this arn't really selling per se, except selling the platform they have. Hedge Fund Consulting, while PB is less exciting generally and the money isn't as good I would say its far more stable, and work your way through that side will allow you to go for COO jobs eventually in the buyside, that would be similar in nature to what I did except I was doing HF coverage from the coverage side of the bank.

If it was me i'd take the HF consulting role.

Jan 8, 2014

thanks perpetual! and very timeliy indeed.....I have a meeting with the MD in the HF Consulting team, and am quite inclued to take it. Your comments do add some conviction to an otherwise confusing decision!

Jan 3, 2014