How prestigious is a job where…
You get worked to a bone. You’re surrounded by provincial thinkers, who can’t imagine a life without striving to be at some sort of “target.” You find yourself unwilling to take risk. You end up losing to U Arizona grads who sell life insurance and make 500k their first year (know 5+ guys who did this. Never thought they would graduate high school, but look at us now.) You probably miss out on the thrills of state schools (not talking about mich or uva kids here).
You get put in rooms with big thinkers for sure being in IB. But do you really? Besides Vivek Ramaswamy, most actual thinkers would be disgusted at the thought of IB. They would immediately go VC or their own startup. People say work in IB and then quickly exit. We’re talking 2 years of your life tho, by which you will for sure have golden handcuffs, and not want to leave IB. 2 turns into 4, which turns into 6. People say they can pull out, but they cum right into the vagina of corporate culture.
The worst part of IB though is the scoffing. Scoffing at non-targets or any careers that provide more value to the world than excel modeling. I’m not saying sales provides more value m, but there are kids out of absolutely nowhere making unfathomable money. No, they are not the exception. Anyone who knows about the sales industry knows that if you work for yourself - you can clear 500k a year at any age.
Don’t get me started on the cycle. You do IB, make connects, your kids do IB, their kids do IB. I had a weird ass thought the other day. In the grand scheme of the universe, we are little ants. We, the so called smartest kids in our classes, the most hard-working person in the room, are little ants marching toward the same “prestigious” career that shortens our lifespans, takes time from our kids, and is a regret on our deathbed. Do you really want your kids to go into IB, and their kids, and their kids. It’s literally ants following the next one.
Bunp
Bump
Bump
Insurance sales is ranked somewhere around used car salesman and onlyfans thot. The only way you make that kind of money right out of college is selling whole life to people (often aggressively to friends and family) who don't need it and are fooled into thinking it is a good "investment".
If you are talking strictly about prestige, insurance ain't it.
Yeah, insurance def is lacking in the prestige category. Not a bad Gig tho
Selling insurance and making that much means they had a bunch of rich friends or family that are throwing them a bone. (overpaying for insurance/wealth management because it's your son's friend/friend's son).
Then don't do it lol. Everyone has their own lives, careers, and reasons for making decisions. You've got it all figured out: congrats!
And they say poetry is dead.
Op may be autistic but damn that line is gold. Gotta give credit where credit is due
Bumping your own post 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡 mad you didnt get an offer?
I will go back to my UMM PE role now lol
You made us read that long ass post about prestige whoring only to do the same thing first chance you got.
You good?
Finance is a career pursued by extremely hard-working, semi-intelligent, risk-averse, highly insecure, non-creative, boring people.
This is the best comment. Wish it could be pinned on top. I don’t know a single person (who gunned for ivies and grinded their whole life) that didn’t fit this mold.
Then you need to walk out of your ridiculous bubble and actually meet people who don’t fit this mold. Imagine only meeting the bottom 1/3 of any walk of life and think you’ve got people figured out
Comment is spot on. Topic has been analyzed in detail before:
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/what-we-can-learn-…
Honestly, most jobs are inconsequential and meaningless. Realistically, what better alternatives are out there if wealth is an end goal long-term?
The smartest, most driven, or luckiest people (less than 0.1%) can go do entrepreneurship and start a business, but that's extremely risky and most would want to get industry exposure before jumping to their own creation, regardless of the field. Everyone else goes down the path of working for a corporation or pursuing higher-ed (law/med/PhD), but what makes these any better? I guess there can be the point abt doctors saving lives, but residency lifestyle is probably worse than IB.
I'm not trying to defend a lot of the BS that flies in finance, but are other options really any better? Every field has tons of uncertainty and requires you to grind if you want to make big bucks. It's a tradeoff that is unfortunate in the grand scheme of things, but I truly don't see a remedy. I do think it's valuable to enter these types of paths to understand where you fall in terms of ambition and priority though.
Also on the point of sales, those guys are clearly amazing at their job and commit to the grind, since most aren't making anywhere near that. At the end of the day, if you're good at what you do and apply yourself, the money will follow. How much you're willing to do/sacrifice comes down to you, and I think any topics of "prestige" are meaningless unless considering long-term goals.
completely agree. It's just a job at the end of the day and money is money. No mid or senior level banker thinks they're the end all be all. Kids in their 20s think about prestige, targets, etc., but once you mature/expand your view and spend time with non finance people you find out no one cares. disclaimer: I've been a buyside guy for 10+ years (pe & hf) and am mid 30s. Love my job but it's just that, a job.
I think it's a maturity thing.
A lot of scoffing in law and consulting too… Just don’t do it and you’ll automatically look like the bigger person.
Grass is always greener, easy to judge from the outside, easy to recognize faults from the inside, etc, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Anyone who actually does an ounce of research on the industry, instead of basing their life ambitions and personality around the Wolf of Wall Street / The Big Short / Succession / Industry, understand and know all the negative parts of the job (or at least aware of the fact you have to put up with BS).
Yes you MIGHT make more selling insurance, but do you really want to be a fucking insurance salesman? Yes there are other less demanding jobs, but do you really want to make $45k in your 20s vs $150k-$400k? Yes you could get the coveted exit opportunities without spending 2+ years in IB, but then most, if not all other options are cut off. Yes there is a huge problem with Nepotism, but most people in IB and especially most people who see it as this "prestigious career" dont have parents in IB, or come from a (Upper) Middle Class (or potentially worse) background, and see it as the stepping stone to provide their children with the life and oppurtunities they didnt have.
Judging based on your post, as well as your profile history regarding your comments about Women in Finance, Dating Questions / Preferences, Transgender Women at your school, its clear that YOU would be the type of banker that would enforce the culture that you claim to hate -- Even though you also made a post trying to find diversity programs that apply to you.
Additionally, your countless posts about recruiting and your overall tone/attitude of "feel bad for a non/semi-target like me :(", hypothetical scenarios of "Mid at finance vs goated at other career" (even your cringe DoWhatItTakes Username) is the reason why you failed to land a spot in IB. Very clear that you're insecure and coping in a major way.
At the end of the day, you need to accept responsibility and stop making excuses. If you wanted to go to a target school, you shouldve worked harder in highschool or set yourself up for a M7 MBA while in undergrad. If you wanted an IB job, shouldve worked harder than the rest of your classmates who did land the spots.
And finally, if you hate the culture/industry so much, then find a career path that better suits your interests and goals. NO ONE is forcing you into finance, and trust me, with this attitude, no one wants you either.
Pointing fingers and finding excuses to undermine for the successes of others, while not recognizing your own failures will lead to a lifetime of frustration, resentment, lack of personal/professional growth.
Have fun selling insurance in the suburbs.
Says the analyst with such a hollow and vapid sense of self worth and self awareness that he needs an anonymous online forum to justify his life choices. This is an elementary take that lacks substance and depth. That's OP's point. The profession doesn't attract talent, creativity, or skill; it attracts those with neither who are so desperate for a paycheck to validate themselves despite their average station in life.
You have zero reading comprehension if that's what you've taken away from that comment. "No substance" while this guy is whining that kids he thinks are dumb make more than him?
You're coping as hard as OP Mr. Pussy Galore
I go to Dartmouth as I have said maybe 5+ times. You had time to comb through my entire profile maybe look at that. Also, I ask questions because I question what type of life I want to live and my current reality. I look at different paths of life and also question diversity programs, etc. I don’t give a fuck what you think about my questions, you can block me or come find me in person if you want. As to me promoting culture I hate, I’d rather drop dead than do that, so not happening. Keep looking through my post history - I’ll have a lot more to offer soon 😁
Ok then don't do IB/PE/HF and get off WSO, if you couldn't land a seat out of an Ivy League + hate the culture this much, you're clearly not cut out for this career.
Find something that makes you happy and less salty 😀
I’m dead, you bumped your own post over and over to get people to see it only to get cooked like this lmfao
Get off the site and enjoy freshman year dude
🗑️
It's a job lil bro. You do the work, they pay you. Everything else is just projection of your own insecurity.
Lowkey the most accurate comment I’ve seen on this godforsaken forum 🤣 should be pinned at the top whenever you open wso
Love this thread. Preach, brother.
Realize that this is a forum of mostly prospects where perceived prestige is probably the main metric they judge potential roles by, but reality is that once you start working for a few years, it’s really not something that matters that much. Trust me, it’s more of an afterthought (and I say that as someone who has been at both a lower tier BB and currently at GS/MS/JPM).
As a VP above said, reality is it’s just a job. A job with long hours that is a client service business which results in limited control of your own schedule. But also a job that if you are hard working, and of decent intelligence (IE don’t have to be that smart), you have a strong probability of moving up and being highly compensated. I’d argue at least a 60%+ chance of a decent analyst who is willing to stick it out being able to make it to VP and make $500k+ by the end of their 20s. Highly doubt 60% of the people selling insurance are making $500k or have a realistic pathway to get there
The reality is that unless you get lucky, the vast majority of careers where you have a fairly certain pathway to high compensation are going to require a lot of work and probably low work-life balance for a meaningful period of time. Take your pick of Big Law (counsel working same hours as IB), Medicine (residency), or even Engineering (see reports of Nvidia’s work culture). And in that lens, IB is fair for what it is. Of course helpful that I do find the core-level work of IB interesting as well. It’s not rocket science, but do enjoy partnering with companies to think through strategic and financing decisions, based on experience gained to date and any interesting ideas I can come up with (if any).
As to if I’d support my kids going into IB, I may have a skewed / messed up perspective, but honestly yes - if finance was a career they were interested in, think it’s a good place to start a career. Funny enough but both my wife (who started her career in Big4 Audit and went through quite a few busy seasons) have talked about this, and agree that IB or other roles with highly structured businesses as well as demanding hours are great training grounds to set you up for the rest of your career.
Beyond just learning business etiquette / structure, I think specifically that early in your career having a job where you essentially have to work as hard possible gives you good perspective for the rest of your career. It gives you perspective of what is actually possible, but also enables you to make a decision for your own life of what type of work-life balance vs. compensation/ambition is ultimately right for you (and totally fine if it’s something with better WLB). But I’d rather have my kids start in a role like IB and see/understand what it would actually take if they wanted to push for comp/ambition in their own journey vs. never experience it and be wondering or complaining that they don’t know how get to high-comp.
Side note but it’s amusing to see a lot of the scam course / get-rich quick influencers on instagram, pushing the “grind mindset” as some hyped up thing about waking up at 4AM and working harder than everyone else. It’s obvious it’s designed to scam people who have never had to actually “grind” in their lives, and think they can pretend to do so by waking up at 4AM for a few months and then that will lead them to get rich / make $500k+. As most post-college people here know, grinding isn’t hype at all, it sucks and you’re just trying to maximize the amount of sleep you can get realistically before logging back in, not hitting the gym in the morning. But it’s having the perspective of experiencing the “real grind” that is important
Definitely lots of scams out there for sure. Your point of view is very well thought out
What bro sends me after bombing his interview:
🤣
Bro honestly sick of seeing your shit all over this website. You’re clearly salty you didn’t get an offer, and you shouldn’t be surprised: I can’t imagine a more insufferable, spiteful, self-serving hardo. With no due respect, do us a favor and just shut the fuck up.
Block me or ignore my posts. I absolutely have no intention of stopping. Come by campus, I’ll do a meet and greet
1) tell me you failed to get an offer without telling me 2) you’re jealous of your peers and wrote this after seeing another celebratory LinkedIn post 3) you’re using your own alt accounts to bump this
Failing to get into IB really isn’t that serious. Failing to get into IB will forever live in your head rent free, I can tell
Why the fuck does everyone assume I don’t have an offer. You don’t know me. I could have a job at Apollo and still wonder about other paths. That not not being grateful, that’s being curious of other paths.
do your job and get paid for it
if you don't like it, leave
if you have an existential void, pay a therapist
I will start copy pasting this to any post that tries to criticize from a moral/existential standpoint IB
Thank you!
Dedication, determination and percivance are key. life is not easy we keep pushing everyday.
agree brother
all of the people i know who failed to break into ib say the same exact things you do. nothing new
All the people who went to jail repent in God. Sometimes it takes failure to reach disillusionment. That said, I’m fine with my IB pursuits. That said, I don’t know if I want to do it.
You were salty the other day that two girls got internships at Goldman and ratted them out. Now you hate the industry?
Ah, so you skimmed the post. You didn’t see why I warned everyone. In case you forgot, one almost killed three people on the highway and didn’t care. The other said “kill all men” and that once she can, she will.
And I said I’d kill myself if this fixed assets roll forward didn’t tie with the SfS… and yet here I am.
Honest word of advice, nobody likes rats lil bro so do better. Besides, who tf are you to speak on Goldman’s hiring decisions from your uni dorm room🤣
Finally, every single one of your posts reads like you’re hooked to an industrial size tank of copium and nobody believes you got a shit ton of offers. Sorry.
You’re a faggot for that, ratting and trying to ruin someone’s career is diabolical.
Clown coping post. Boring. Seen this 1000x. Just go live your life no one gives a shit you are not in IB why is it taking so much of your attention
🗑️
Bro had to comment 4 times
Skill issue. Next.
Just looking at your post history, it's clear that 1.) You drank the corporate kool-aid and you're having a mid-life crisis after chasing prestige. 2.) People you know got "better" offers than you and you're venting. 3.) You got no offer and this is your coping mechanism.
Irregardless, all lame. Just focus on yourself. All this bitching and moaning out loud about the industry is useless. Want to give up your spot? Some kid that's hungrier than you will take up the offer in an instant and make more use of the opportunity. As some of the other comments say, you don't have to go into finance. If you care so much about being a thinker, go be a philosopher or some shit. Start a business. A teacher. Who gives a fuck.
Vivek only interned at GS for a summer. Don’t throw him in with other IB sheep.
Exactly
Was taught in school that you needed IB to go start your own fund / do VC, that would be the dream but always viewed IB as stepping stone to reach my goal
Vivek said he didnt like hes GS internship and has roasted the environment their many times lol
Was Vivek ever in IB?
My first superday rejection hit me hard as well kid
Ah yes actual thinker vivek ramaswamy. Lmao if that guy counts as an "actual thinker" I don't know who doesn't.
IB sucks, but the point is just to do it for 1-2 years. People are starting to act like it’s supposed to be a good career path - it’s not. It’s just supposed to be something you suck up for as short as possible before moving onto something good. A sell side career sounds like a good idea to some people who haven’t done it, but except for rare groups, it’s not even worth the money, it’s just a 1-2 year shitty job that u do for the opportunities after. So yes, it does suck, but that doesn’t matter because you shouldn’t be there long if you play the game right.
idk
Fairly or unfairly, some people are going to read this as an extremely verbose way of saying you didn't make the cut in some way. No one writes this much about something they don't care about
Frankly I think the entire premise of "prestige" is laughable. Making critical life choices based on whats likely to impress other people is dumb and unhealthy.
I’ll say one thing which is somewhat a new articulation of a commonly known idea — I myself am weighing whether I want to grind the rest of my life or do something with more WLB. But the reason I have the luxury to ask that question is because my father did not. These careers have their purpose and value, which is obvious but can be lost in the misery.
I go to your college, and I’m very shocked you’d post this. Our school is small, and I promise you the circle of people actively pursuing finance is smaller than you think. Simmer down. I actually am not a prestige fan either, but your post history was celebrating that IB and big law are elitist. So if you were happy in the past about this elitism, doesn’t it make sense that people would accuse you of not getting an offer? lol what? It’s never this serious bro
I disagree tbh. Mostly everyone I know goes into once from here dude. Saying that’s not true would be an incorrect statement.
Comparison is the thief of joy. You can’t generalize everyone who works in IB into the picture you outlined. Everyone has their different reasons for doing the job and it is arguably one of the best jobs you can get out of undergrad for career progression, compensation, opportunities, network, etc.
Are there better jobs out there? Absolutely, but shitting on anyone who decides to go this path is a straight clown move
It’s actually even more simple than that. It’s a pretty objectively shitty career, but you do it for such a short amount of time that it doesn’t matter. Idk what is giving people the idea nowadays that it’s a great idea to be a career banker, it’s not. Literally do it for a year or two, keep your mouth shut, and leave like everyone else. It will be worth it. So much complaining on this site.
Dude I'm not gonna comment on 90% of what you said, but the life insurance part is laughable. Had a buddy who literally had to quit his life insurance sales job after a few months. Those jobs only work if you have a bunch of rich family members willing to more or less donate to you by bying one of your useless "investment products"
You can’t do door to door. You also have to have sources near you that know what they’re doing
I think what you are failing to see is that most people entering IB/finance aren't really seeking $500k/year. It is the possibility of making $5-10M/year someday, and most won't make it there. Plenty who make it in do though. Those numbers don't generally come in insurance sales.
S&T is also another beast completely where you see 24 y/o people getting $2M guaranteed per year, depending on product and market cycle.
Why is s&t slept on? Is it way harder or not that many ppl know about it? I’ve known there was a bag there fs but that is crazy numbers
The challenge is that you learn no applicable business skills outside of trading. I had a trading seat in a high vol/val market at GS, but I saw nothing appreciable to the real world. I also back-doored in through ops in a terrible market so it was my best option. I wanted to understand how and why businesses are bought and sold so that was my driver.
I left and started over in IB at a lesser than GS BB. It went great, and I had solid experiences.
Also, I screwed the pooch. My colleague and roommate made over $7M for 8 straight years and is now a major exec at a BB. He also tells me that he wants my life and to get out of NYC. There's a lot of trade-offs in life.
Investment banking is the most prestigious
Bump
It’s funny OP almost gets it, which is that prestige isn’t as important as people make it out to be, but gets derailed by the whole 500K insurance sales shtick.
Wdym
You bring up valid points about the culture of IB and the allure of alternative paths like entrepreneurship or sales. However, while some may feel stuck in IB due to golden handcuffs, others genuinely enjoy the work, the structured career progression, and the financial security it provides. Risk tolerance varies from person to person, and not everyone is suited for the volatility of startups or sales. Also, while some in IB may scoff at non-traditional paths, there are plenty of bankers who respect and transition into other industries over time. At the end of the day, success is defined by personal values and goals rather than just breaking free from corporate culture.
as someone who grew up dirt poor, working manual labor jobs from a young age, this job is so much more than just "prestige" - it is my life saver and the greatest learning experience!!!
i had zero opportunity growing up and most of my childhood + high school friends either went down a dark path in life or are dead.
after grinding for many years in awful public schools, i was very fortunate that a target school (NOT my first choice and NOT an ivy, but still a great ivy+ college) took a chance on me and gave a full ride, where an alum from a similar upbringing was generous enough to hook me up with an lmm pe buyside gig sophomore year and help me land an eb ibd gig junior year in a top group.
i will admit that i was definitely not ready for the eb my junior year, was likely the worst intern in the firm's history (probably still am), and, not surprisingly, i did not get a return offer, in addition to graduating into 08, with no job and my family unable to take care of me.
i was jobless for more than a year, wandering across multiple LCOL and rust belt cities, working a series of odd jobs, from call center to tutoring, before an lmm ibd took a chance on me.
the lmm ibd i worked at was a complete no-name in a lower tier city and management was both hostile and toxic. the founder was notorious in his industry for being hard to work with, and i worked on so many materials of deals that never came to be. coming from my internship experiences, target school, and dysfunctional upbringing, i felt like i was flying so high up in the sky and then fell down to earth to work with a bunch of miserable peasants. regardless, i put my head down, did my part not to rock the boat and do exactly what they told me without question, which allowed me to go unnoticed, before, after a long and grueling process of multiple months, i was offered a better spot with an eb lateral position.
from the eb, i made it to mf pe, and then to a sm hf.
while the eb, mf pe, and sm hf were all worlds apart better than the lmm ibd, all of them shared the common factors of grueling levels of work, toxic and hostile co-workers and managers, as well as failed deals.
in retrospect, my experiences allowed me to develop myself to the point where i was able to succeed at better firms, while also balancing that with providing for my family and enjoying all the little things in life.
above all else, i was very fortunate to have experienced failure while i was a junior in college and as a fresh graduate in 08 because it made me understand the industry and office politics better.
hear me out: it is MUCH BETTER to fail early on than later, especially down the road when you have a family and people who depend on you.
yes, my years in IBD + PE were indeed demanding and i was very tired, but it was and still is a lot of fun. i still am very tired, but i have no complaints and im glad that i did it.
bottom line, i am beyond grateful to the universe to work in a career that has been the greatest learning experience for me and one that allowed me to break the cycle of intergenerational poverty that has run deep in my family for so long.
im also very fortunate that my kids will never have to experience the struggle that i grew up with.
so NO, I DO NOT REGRET IT AND WOULD HAPPILY DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN IN A HEARTBEAT!!!
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