What happened to west coast talent?
Essentially the title, it feels like students nowadays expect everything to be handed out to them and I have noticed it so much more with schools like UBC/UofA/SFU/UVic. I take the time to have virtual chats with these kids just for them to ask the most generic questions.
So often it falls into the same profile of individuals as well;
- Already in their 3rd4th/5th/6th year (Yes, I met a 6th year going into 7th looking for an off cycle) with no major internship upcoming.
- Search funds/fake internships/unpaid internships
- Below 3.5 GPA and using some other form of GPA to cover it up (Finance GPA, Major GPA, "Core" GPA)
- Surprisingly openly sexist and blame diversity for being the reason they haven't done anything with their life yet
Genuinely, what is going on at the career centres for these schools? Do they no longer emphasize the importance of preparing for chats or respecting the time of people who go out of their way to speak? It feels like rather than speaking about anything related to the field, we spend so much of the time with them just asking me "what should i do"
Is this a generational thing? I don't see it as much with kids from Toronto, albeit since I came from the west I still see more requests coming from kids in the west.
Can't just blame the kids, have to blame the awful recruitment process and the terrible decisions being made on the other end as well. It started off with an accelerated schedule, which is now 14 months ahead of internship start, and then you got things like PLUM profiles, banks taking those 6th/7th year kids you mention, and GPA floors have been removed. You want to know why kids with that profile think it is easy? It's because kids with that same profile are getting in these days, and it so obvious when they land for their internship that they could not have been the best in the pool.
On one hand, you got the actual hungry kids with a 3.8+, know the technicals by heart not memorization, and are showing up to chats prepared, leaving the chats with someone who will go to bat for them. On the other, you got the 3.3 6th year kid who pestered an HR contact or alumni so much that they get an interview just to shut up, but know that when they get that interview, one deserving kid did not as a result. The pool of candidates didn't get worse, but because of the blown out emphasis being placed on cultural, the "charismatic" (has been through 4 recruitment cycles) kid is weaselling his way in.
It isn't the schools, it is literally us.
Can most definitely blame the kids, why are they sitting there consistently reaching out to the few alumni that their schools have, just to show up with the planned agenda being an awful attempt at shooting the shit. UBC kids have no excuse either, they literally have like 5 finance clubs that they can get the help they need from, it really is just about giving a fuck. The other schools are just in bad states overall, UofA is terrible unless you want O&G and SFU literally places 0 people in big 5 these days that aren't already balding and approaching their 30th birthday (I hear the #6 in Big 6 shows them some love though, makes sense since they can relate over always being in the shadows).
Worst interview I have ever had to sit through was with what I can only assume was a nepo daughter coming from SFU. She bombed every single technical even after being given a 3rd chance at a first round, spent forever bragging about covering the biggest sector for the school fund but then was unable to pitch a stock, literally was in her 4th year, had a ~3 GPA, and her past internships seemed made up (claimed equity research but it was a money transfer agency). Safe to say, we haven't batted an eye at the resume of anyone from SFU since then.
Shoutout to all the flops in life that end up accepting roles with scotia and national bank, if it wasn't for you guys the mid market of Canada (LMM by US standards) would never have advisors.
I am sure your PLUM profiles did a great job at showing how you were most qualified to be a part of these organizations that shouldn't even be called banks!
How is it accelerated schedule if banks are taking 6th and 7th year kids?
Wait until you hear about how the reason you see that is becausebanks are consistently taking in students that they think will create the best culture. The literal way incels are created is by giving an opportunity to someone who doesn't deserve it, all these high egos that are made as a result, are covering up the fact that they know they don't deserve what they got. I am looking specifically at you west coast big 5, always bringing in 6th and 7th year interns, how can you genuinely sit there in an interview and take someone born in 1999 over someone born in 2003 that has the same level of skill?
What's wrong with being older?
There's a plethora of reasons why someone would still be in undergrad at an older age than average and many of them aren't malicious.
I like how you say incels are created because of discrimination and then you discriminate...
I don't know how many "6th-year beauties" are getting into finance... maybe 1 in every 50, tops, and whoever this elusive beauty is, they're so charismatic they do actually deserve it.
Regardless, not sure what your response even has to do with the original claim - they're complaining about people showing up unprepared, and you're saying we can't blame shit applicants because a few people have "slipped through the cracks" and made it into finance without the gold-plated CV? I don't get it.
Truth of the matter is, people reach out with absolutely zero connection and don't even bother to prep for the calls - be that person from Ivey, UBC, or Harvard, they're an idiot.
Bruh the only quality school in the west coast is UBC and even then only select few are actually into it. Majority of the finance kids are going to Ivey/Queens
Hard to even call UBC quality these days, can't help but look at all the failures happening here as well. I could easily rip into PMF and the downfall it has had, but that has happened enough times on these forums. The problem with UBC right now is that everyone think they are on par with Queens/Ivey whereas in reality when it comes to finance, not even top 5. Sure there is Westpeak, but that program is being carried by alumni and we all know none of the kids in the program are really all that. They get interviews just because they are Westpeak, the same thing that was the case with PMF and even SFU's BEAM.
It creates a cycle, kids get lazy because they'll get interviews regardless, they bomb the interviews, program's downfall begins. PMF/BEAM are long gone, sure they still get interviews but there is no shot we see them go across the border at any point. Westpeak is being carried right now by a few alumni contacts, the benefit it has is that students are the ones who run it, whereas for the other two it is all run by professors with a facade that students do.
Please elaborate for those of us who haven't had a chance to read up on all the drama.
Please do rip into the downfall of PMF
This makes sense, when you look at those two schools, most of the awful chat experiences I have had were actually kids in those 3 programs. It is like they genuinely think that they made it to the top of the world because they knew a guy who knew a guy who could get them in. Decided to go check out their pages on LinkedIn and to no surprise, a lot of people who aren't even interning in the summer. There are less than 3 total across both schools it seems that actually landed a semi-decent gig for this summer, and a whole lot of research nerds spread across the board with quite a few fake investment bankers (no name shops with 5k LinkedIn followers) or mid market maestros to compliment the circus. It is actually way worse than I thought
You could consider one of the reason that working in Finance is simply not desirable in Vancouver. The pay and opportunities are nowhere close to exciting as other markets and thus driven students here self select towards other places naturally. Secondly consider the weak career support (this is in general true for the “top 3” Canadian uni), the true go getter talent goes abroad while the rest don’t get the support they need and end up languishing with mediocre performance. In turn, this results in the Vancouver sector going basically into a negative cycle. Even more depressingly this overall is also a microcosm of the wider Canadian economy as a whole.
It may be a quality school overall but Sauder is the most overrated business school in North America - It has strong marketing and international reach which allows is to specifically appeal to the children of wealthy internationals/domestics. The amount of snobs I have met from UBC is disproportionate to any school outside of it, that being said I know the industry of finance/consulting in general is one that creates snobs but at least when I am talking to other students I don't have them acting as if they made it in life because they did a search fund and got promoted to XYZ in Asshat Capital student club.
I come from a non-target on the west coast and this is going to sound rehearsed because it is. Education is highly individual and I really dislike the practice of writing people off just by their school. I have friends in top schools and they are very talented and motivated. I would say about 50% of the people from those programs are the same from my discussions with them. At my school, I have to engage with the professors and ask as many questions as possible to ensure I have a comparable education. It takes a lot of outside research and I take many of the free Harvard courses that are published on Edx. The vast majority of my fellow classmates are not as motivated as me but I can think of 4 or 5 that are highly intelligent/motivated/deserving of very challenging careers in IB or whatever they choose to do. This is not to put down the other students but in terms of recruiting, there are certainly fewer good candidates from non-targets but it doesn't mean that there aren't a few that are exceptional.
Lol same in the east coast. Bar the actual top candidates with top profiles, the rest are bottom of the barrel. There's no in between.
Trust me, the west is awfully worse. The top candidate bar doesn't even exist since the few actual smart kids at UBC either go to Toronto or the states, meaning that it is the bottom scrapers left out here. And at the same time, no one from a Toronto school that is smart has any intention of coming to Vancouver, so the only Toronto applicants that come this way are the ones who are desperate.
Oof sounds rough
I'll tell you why these issues exist, every single interview these days is focused on finding the right personality hire, but anyone can fake a personality for 30 minutes. Banking is dying fast in Canada, look at the decreases in number of positions, wouldn't be surprised if Vancouver shops close up soon given the very low caliber talent that exists there. Vancouver banking, home of the short and chubby folks that didn't make it out of the city.
I dont think its just driven by personality hire, I believe you do need high gpa/solid grasp of technicals to get interviews/offers imo. I'm saying that based on my experience as I didnt get any interviews in Van (im from westcoast school) and I thought it was my low gpa lol. Most of the people who got into IB here have very strong grades and do seem competent.
I do agree that banking is dying in Canada and its better for students to try London/US. I've personally had more positive experience networking outside of Canada.
You must be speaking of a different time then, I think people are really fed up with the processes over the past 3 years. No joke, the only bank to take a 2nd/3rd year in Vancouver now is TD and even there I know some interviews were wasted on 5th/6th years posing as 2nd years after transferring schools. It is disgusting that these people are still in school, even more weird that when they do land something, they develop such an ego. Know a 2000 kid at my school who was handed interviews because of the club he is in, didn't get a single position until someone declined the offer and they came back to give him one. He ego'd everyone so hard as if we aren't 3-4 years behind him, it is the equivalent of me looking for Summer 2028... Vancouver is a dumpster fire, the recruitment here is atrocious and most of it also exists within school clubs - ie. 6th/7th years get in and then the following year they bring in other 6th/7th years to try to normalize it in an attempt to cover up their insecurities. Great job jerks, you guys will now be in extracurricular clubs as fucking 24/25 year olds... only took you 7 years to make a baby step - Schools in Toronto see through this shit, but once again Vancouver falls behind because we have terrible administration and professors to close the full loop of issues with the west coast
del
Came here to comment “what the fuck are you guys talking about?” until I realized halfway through the thread this is about Canada. Makes a lot more sense now.
Same, I stared at those schools for waaaay too long trying to figure out what was happening.
Carry on, Canadian friends
Just whatever you do, don't make our hat stop saying sorry. The Geneva Conventions become the Geneva Checklist. If they want to be chaos, like with their made up schools, just let them
West coast in USA is still way lower tier talent than east coast. Not debatable
The UofC cope on this thread is unbelievable
No offense intended, but what is UofC even good for nowadays? Maybe O&G…?
Not even, I am placing them after UBC/SFU/UofA
You know what is worse than the 3.3GPA 6th/7th years, the 3.7 6th/7th years who think their 3.7 is equivalent to the 3.7 3rd/4th year. While we here, if any Vancouver bankers can explain, why do the banks here like taking the 7th year who has had 4 years of prep over the 3rd year that was only marginally worse?
It is such a shame that this is a concern, not to mention that often times these 7th years are being fed the questions ahead of time by their peers who are in the junior cohorts of these same banks.
del
Don't worry my guy it's common. At least yall are better than US interns. Interns nowadays don't even know how what's the difference between an LBO and DCF.
And let's say if they intern in NatRes group, they have no clue what are some NatRes specific ratios, model drivers, or big company names.
This is very disappointing given that there is so much free resource out there to learn from. I'm leaving my bank soon I have no hope in these interns or incoming full-times.
How do you end up with interns that didnt even read the basic 400 guide since that includes questions on dcf, lbo etc?
I didn't run recruiting. Chances are they memorized it but didn't fully understand, so they totally forgot by the time they get to the internship. Also America is heavy on nepotism and DEI hiring anyway.
UBC is not known for IB/PE anyways, plus a lot of the Sauder kids are not corporate ambitious and have rich parents anyways.
Nothing but the truth spoken here, the school has become a hub of kids that have too much money whether it be coming from abroad or not. They just don't have the same drive as the scrappy kids who will be homeless if they don't get their shit done right
Theres always been pockets of scrappy kids at UBC that place into the states without nepo/div/oak hill. Maybe the less motivated ones expecting handholding are more visible nowadays though.
Few thoughts:
The schools you mentioned are either weak semi-targets or non-targets, so it’s not surprising that you encounter students who decided on their career path later (aka not by their first year) and appear less composed.
Search fund internships or fake internships are frustrating. They confuse out real accomplishments, like an internship at a legitimate LMM PE fund. I am very critical of those candidates.
There’s no excuse for a GPA below 3.5, but there’s also no need to engage with those students.
The career centers at these schools are notoriously terrible, effectively grift centers that employ untalented people.
Schools that recruit in Toronto offer better resources such as guides, alumni, clubs, and mentorship. Their students are more composed and can more easily fake being impressive. If a student from Queen’s is smooth, it’s expected. If a student from SFU or UVIC is well-spoken, it suggests they might genuinely be a good conversationalist.
I dont think search fund internships are bad if they make up your experience for your first or second work experience, but walking into 4th year with one search fund internship and no real experience doesnt look great
Ehhhh tricky one but I am definitely going to say I would avoid a search fund unless you can't get anything else at all (1st/2nd year only). For the most part I would prefer a student have an accounting/regular finance position over a search fund because the reality is this;
That big boomer energy of yours is seeping through my computer screen. Thanks for that
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Those schools are non-target af lmaooo
Haha literally what I was thinking.
Keep in mind grade inflation/deflation.
SFU business has insane deflation. People are curved to a B- on a 4.33 scale. That's 2.67 average.
Sounds like a 7th year to me
He's not wrong though, SFU has an insane curve but at the same time SFU is filled with morons so being above the curve is a breeze - I'd say getting to a 3.67 there is pretty easy but everything beyond that point requires you to consistently place in the top 5% of courses.
Ill listen to the grade deflation at UChicago or Princeton. But fow with grade deflation at SFU bruh
Least salty UChicago kid lol
Something a lot of people on here need to realize is that these schools are atrocious when it comes to preparing for high finance. The career centers are still convincing students to make funky resumes, they tell students to reach out to as many people as possible (without teaching how to prepare), and they don't have the same level of career fairs like the east. All of this adds up to explain why interns/full-times in Vancouver are worse/dumber than in Toronto (IMO Calgary isn't as bad).
Adding on - There also aren't as many alumni from these schools, so when you accept a chat from them outside of recruiting season just know you might have been the only one to do so in that entire month (less reps but technically also more prep time as a result)
Edit: I realize I can’t post anonymously since this is a new account. I’ll just say that I went to one of the schools above and it was an absolute terrible experience. Sorry for the lack of info, I don’t post much on WSO, but this post really hit home for me so I commented.
This is an important point to drive home though, look beyond the normal candidates (top club, rich family, hand out internships) and you'll find some absolute hustlers in the mix. This entire string of comments is accurate, it is tough speaking to kids from any of the schools mentioned because most of the time they have an ego which is undeserved, at the same time you will come across a student every now and then who hasn't been given a lucky break but is technically gifted and extremely humble, one that you can tell will find their way into the industry because of their dedication.
I'd advise against not talking to students from your alma mater just because you didn't get help, at the very least talk to those students whose resumes looked like yours before you got the one shot that changed it.
Truth is that in order to amaze someone when you speak to them, you have to be coming in as an underdog whether it be coming from a non-target or not being in any extra-curriculars that help round you out. Have seen analysts and associates team up to find ways in for a student who was extremely technical, humble/kind, and had a plethora diverse experiences (non-banking) that gave him quite the story. In the end, student got the offer through an advanced interview which made him the first student selected for that years recruiting process outside of diversity acceptances. In short, put your head down, master the concepts, don't stop reaching out (and of course prepare well before speaking).
I went to one of these school and there isn’t much help from career centers and they make us take a course to prepare a resume that would get thrown in the trash if anyone would see it. Networking with alumni is tricky since alumni would only respond to people from the club they were themselves involved with. I can’t blame alumni here as well since 90% of the time they end up talking to some student who is unprepared/egoistic. I would admit I had my fair share of bad chats in the beginning but I tried my best to improve and not make same mistakes during future coffee chats. In my experience about 10% students were serious of getting into IB/consulting and were doing the work for it too, rest just wanted to chase it to look cool.
Overall, if I had to do my undergrad again I would’ve gone to an east coast school.
Just curious what's wrong with searchfund and unpaid internships.
I know searchfund is bs work so highlighting it is bad but I have it in my resume and now have another unpaid remote SA role at pretty new and non traditional bank.
Just curious on how ppl in the industry view it and how to handle discussing it for interviews.
wdym "bank"?
I've hired maybe 3 west coast kids in all my time. Two absolute rock stars one total sham. Most of the others came into the interviews half prepared, unprepared or generally so far behind other schools it wasn't even worth the time. When I say other schools I don't just mean Queens/Ivey
There’s this guy who I think is contributing to the problem.
I’m not going to say his name because I am sure he stalks this forum like crazy looking for clients. He runs one of those “finance job prep consulting companies” and he is from a west coast school.
He basically takes these older guys and fluffs up their resume with BS unpaid jobs and inflates their GPAs and everything, while charging them thousands of dollars in fees. I think what you’re seeing is his students because he coached them on what to say in interviews and even records coffee chats with bankers to create “the perfect chat formula.”
It’s weird as hell, but if you know about this guy, you know.
lmao
lolllllll iykyk
Name and shame boys, name and shame. His name is Matthew Farquhar, aka a "Capital Markets Mentor".
He interned at Moelis LA in Summer 2023 but failed to get the return offer. Of course, he would never tell you this, and always bounces around the return offer if you ever ask him. His story is that he "chose" not to go back and he "chose" to run this mentorship busienss instead.
He charges >$1,000 for his mentorship services. He also dropped out of school 2 months before graduating to pursue this mentorship business full time, but who knows the truth... maybe flunked out.
Sad part is he's selling the dream to (mainly) nerdy asian kids that don't have a chance anyways.
EDIT: I'm being conservative about the $1k. I think its 2-3k or more. I just forgot the exact number my friend told me (who signed up for a "consultation call" by him and was given these prices). But its in the thousands, at least 1k.
His LinkedIn says he got the return offer?
Ngl you asf for naming him, as much as I don’t think what he’s doing is right, everything you said seems like rumours or speculation
I'm commenting up here so people stop DM'ing me / commenting below saying that Matthew Farquhar isn't lying about his return offer. To be clear, he did NOT get a return offer from Moelis LA. He is lying about this to help prop up his mentoring business and sell his services to unsuspecting college students.
Here's proof: google the video where Matthew Farquhar says he "turned down his return offer" (its from @itswynette on YouTube).
VP from Moelis LA commented on the video saying "I wonder if people who worked with him would corroborate that story. Would love to see him post the offer letter."
You are right. The account that commented has the same name as a Vice President at Moelis LA.
This alone completely dismantles Mr. Farquhar's story. LMAO
I am not gonna lie, I was gonna comment to stop spreading rumors if you don't know for a fact, but looking at the Moelis VP comments bascially confirms it lol, I guess its 100% proof that he didn't get the return offer and if lying, because that guy is for sure a VP at Moelis LA and commented this multiple times on the same channels videos
Didn't he subsequently turn it down tho?
UBC still has great placements to Moelis LA, Ares, Evercore, etc
Agree, plus some additional color for people that are curious.
Moelis LA: Pipeline started by a Director who has now left the bank, so unclear on its future. UBC send only 1 person there each summer. Last summer UBC sent 2 guys, one of which was PMF (the other was WestPeak, but didn't get a return). This summer, UBC sent 1 (guy was from WestPeak / NIBC). There's 3 UBC Analysts there, all of whom are WestPeak. But with the PMF guy coming back for full time, expect that pipeline so slowly convert into a PMF pipeline and go down the Oak Hill route, aka, not available for anyone not in the PMF. Tough luck to all you Summer 2026ers and onwards.
Evercore: Newest pipeline thats building. Guy went there last summer in Menlo Park but didn't get the return. Theres 2 people going to Evercore next summer. Maybe this builds out into a consistent pipeline in 2-4 years.
Ares LA: Probably the best pipeline out of UBC, but not entirely private equity, its credit.
GS S&T NYC: Always hires 1 person from UBC. Strong alumni base.
BlackRock NYC: Also a developing pipeline. Guy from last summer converted to full time. Someone else is going next summer.
Oak Hill NYC: PMF exclusive.
& that's really it guys lol. Everything else is eat what u kill
GS S&T tends to be PMF focussed, not every year but most years it'll be PMF person getting that role
I doubt Moelis LA will become a PMF pipeline because of how unsupportive PMF leadership are of banking recruit. The career preferences of the candidates PMF takes nowadays also isn't banking as they don't take the "finance hardos" they used to.
The "pipelines" at UBC are just places with mild alumni presence, primarily due to legacy PMF connections, that occasionally take a UBC student by chance. The only true pipelines are via PMF: GS S&T and Oak Hill.
UBC attracts talented students, due to the "6% acceptance rate" stat and Maclean's business school ranking, which lead West Coast high schoolers to believe they've been accepted into Canada's equivalent of Harvard. They get there and realize too late that Macleans has no idea what its talking about.
As a result, a few top students independently secure West Coast EB offers and are subsequently recruited by West Peak, which uses their success to claim they "place" students. The remaining bright students struggle for Vancouver offers, with a few managing to move to Calgary or Toronto. Those who succeed recognize the significant role luck plays and often choose not to mentor others, leading to a decline in support and guidance for subsequent students.
The schools typically don't have the resources to help but more importantly don't care to. Many of these schools have a preference for tech/entrepreneurship/Big4 accounting. The more "standard" high-achiever path of IB & to some extent mgmt consulting is not only not supported, in some cases it is outright ostracized.
Add in a relatively weak job market and it makes sense why its tough to create any culture of excellency/proficiency.
On clubs like PMF and BEAM, the applicants are not judged on anything finance-related and recruitment is usually based on grades from years 1 and/or 2 (this might be outdated). Basically, it becomes a bit like student council in highschool where the "cool" kids help each other and form a small cartel. Unfortunately, this doesn't translate well to actually getting a job.
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