Tricks for getting into top MBA program?

Hey Guys,

I am wondering if any of u know any particular tricks for getting accepting into a top MBA Program.

Tricks, such as- when applying for upenn for undergraduate (but really want to go to Wharton), the school statistics have shown that students are far more likely to get accepted if they apply into the college, as something like econ major, and then apply to internally transfer to wharton. thats just one example

Was wondering if anyone else had any tips or strategies for better chances of admissions to a top MBA program.

Thanks,

 
Funniest

I got some tricks for you:

1) Get 800 on the GMAT. 2) Get a perfect 4.0 from an Ivy League undergrad. 3) Work at a top firm, ideally MBB or a PE firm after spending 2 years at a top BB group. 4) Win a gold medal in the Olympics or something. 5) Do some wild interesting volunteer work. 6) Make sure you rewind the clock and are born to parents who went to a top school. 7) Ideally, have your parents give a $3MM+ donation to your choice of school.

Good luck!

 
aspiringchimp:

I got some tricks for you:

1) Get 800 on the GMAT.
2) Get a perfect 4.0 from an Ivy League undergrad.
3) Work at a top firm, ideally MBB or a PE firm after spending 2 years at a top BB group.
4) Win a gold medal in the Olympics or something.
5) Do some wild interesting volunteer work.
6) Make sure you rewind the clock and are born to parents who went to a top school.
7) Ideally, have your parents give a $3MM+ donation to your choice of school.

Good luck!

since OP is interested in trickery, add (8) buy out admissions....

 
Controversial

Im thinking of doing an LBO on Harvard graduate school. That way I am guaranteed a spot. Since my parents are billionaires they can bankroll me, and since I have a 4.0 from an ivy i can run the LBO analysis and formulate the legal framework myself. I figure I can make enough money stripping and selling off all the assets, and then leasing them back. If I don't make enough that way, I figure as owner I can start to dip into their billion dollar endowment. Ill turn Harvard into a corporation, prepare an ABS backed by the all the incoming students college tuition payments, ill short the fuck out of it, and then declare bankruptcy on the school. My MBA degree would be worthless at that point but hey, whats the point of having fuck you money if you never get to say fuck you..amiright?

 

CBS early decision is probably the closest there is to a "trick" in that it's significantly easier to get in ED vs regular. You can also consider "back dooring" into a school with PT programs such as Kellogg, Booth, Stern, Haas which are way easier to get into than full time

 

i'm not sure what the degree says as im enrolled in a FT program. from what i've heard, it's challenging to try and recruit as a PT student as they often can't participate in OCR and recruiting events but i've also heard anecdotes of part timers getting jobs at MBB and BBs. Best to reach out directly to PT students in whatever programs you're interested in.

 

I'm in Booth PT, we can do OCR but there are a couple hoops. Degree is same, I even take some day classes with the FTers, but yes I do have to cry myself to sleep that my GMAT was 10 points lower, some of those rock stars were better at geometry, etc etc.

If you're seeking the banking or consulting route I'd still gun for FT, but any other group outside of those and No one gives a shit that it's PT

 

A good GMAT and a target undergrad will get you in most 10-15 ranked programs if you pay full tuition. I know cause I've don it(although I turned it down since MBA is a waste of time anyway...)

Plus good work experience and good GPA will get you into top 5-10. Plus superb work experience(BB or Consulting+promotion) will get you into Harvard. It used to be harder but now it's just that(sarcasm...)

 

Be a minority. Get into minority feeder programs for MBAs like ML4T or Toigo. CRUSH the GMAT since a 760+ is a BEAST score. If the gmat isn't for you then take the GRE and do very well on that. Xepa did the GRE route and is at a MBA business schools ">M7.

-A delusional minority who wants to do HBS 2+2, Yale Silver Scholars, or GSB 2+2.

 

I know someone who hardcore sold in their application and interview for Kellogg that they wanted to do non-profit mananagement. As far as I know, they had subpar grades from a subpar school and subpar work experience. They changed their track to finance upon matriculation and are now with Bain in Sydney.

 

Eh, the part time / full time difference in school is different. I did a full time program (not a top 10), and the GF is currently doing a part time at stern. The part time program is on cruise control, but it makes sense for people who are already working full time.

From what I have seen in accounting / finance, the school name does not matter as much as the letters after your name and the alumni network.

I declined an offer at BlackRock in compliance that I got with an MBA from an alright school. The letters and the network are what are crucial. Look at where you want to go geographically and look at the schools the major players hire from. A lot of those companies say top ten, but in reality, how many people actually went to a top ten school vs others who have a similar background. It's good for getting your foot in the door at a big company / big name firm, but 3-5 years down the line no one is going to care as much if you went to Harvard or Fordham as long as you get your job done well and are a smart person.

I get the hype for the top 10, but also think their value is over hyped too. Just some things I have noticed - feel free to flame away.

'77 CB 750 '69 Cortina GT
 

Well considering the tip i received about applying to upenn as an econ minor into the college, and then transferring into the Wharton school, I would absolutely say that THATS ONE WEIRD TRICK that absolutely helped/helps. Theres a huge majority of students who would be denied applying to Wharton, but would be accepted into the college as I have seem it first hand.

 
salad:

Theres a huge majority of students who would be denied applying to Wharton, but would be accepted into the college as I have seem it first hand.

You're telling me the majority of students denied to Wharton would get into Penn Arts & Science? That's just plain wrong. Acceptance rate from Penn SAS to Wharton are high because 1) these are still high achieving Ivy League students 2) small sample size.

Gimme the loot
 

Go to as many admission and info sessions. Get face time with admission officers. Meet actual professors and have conversations with them. Find different programs that help network with Alumni. Nail the essay and interview. From listening and networking with a lot of people one of the biggest mistakes or decisions applicants or prospective students is the mistake on the essay and interview. You can get a great score on the GMAT and GRE but bomb the essay or interview. Many admission officers told me that they hate when a essay is copied for multiple schools and NOT tailored for that specific school. This can look really bad even if you get a 760 on GMAT

 

Aiming to do GMAT after I finish CFA's in June this year, I am not too worried about GMAT since I am generally pretty good with test taking, also I know GMAT is something I can go from zero to hero within a very short period of time. It is the other things that can't get be crammed I am more worried about.

 

You wrote:

: I know GMAT is something I can go from zero to hero within a very short period of time.

You might want to work on humility

Betsy Massar Come see me at my Q&A thread http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/b-school-qa-w-betsy-massar-of-master-admissions Ask away!
 

I'm not sure the CFA matter at all.

That said,

  1. Get good grades
  2. Dominate the GMAT 3a. Achieve World Peace / Cure World Hunger / another absurd extra curricular or 3b. Work at Goldman

Same path to Harvard as everyone else

Commercial Real Estate Developer
 

Biggest weakness of your app will be your essays where you answer the "why do you need this degree and why now?" question. You don't in fact need an MBA. You already work in your target industry and will hold the most sought after designation in that industry. The coursework will have no educational value for you whatever. You can register for some upper level finance, math, or comp sci courses but those are not actually "MBA courses".

You can lie and say you are looking for a career change into a role that would actually benefit from the coursework but from what you wrote I really don't get why you want an MBA.

Your raw stats and experience are a shoe-in for many top programs but the most elite schools won't let someone in who just wants to hang out and do OCR (of which there is very little for your target industry BTW). They regard themselves as actual schools, the main attraction of which is the classes. We regard them as recruitment platforms but they don't like being used that way.

Focus on the essay, the fit, why you want to go back to school, etc. Tighten up your story. 10 more GMATs is the last thing you need.

 

730+ gmat score - averages are rising every year Focus on getting a healthy number of relevant post-college extracurriculars under your belt (for example, volunteering to teach financial literacy) - cannot emphasize this enough. Easy way to differentiate yourself.

http://ayainsight.co/ Curating the best advice and making it actionable.
 

Best way to position yourself for a top b-school is to STOP reverse engineering your profile. There isn't a one-size-fits-all profile.

First, stop underestimating the GMAT like Napoleon did with the Russian winter. I'm sure you think you're super smart, but the GMAT isn't an intelligence test. It's not about "hard" or "easy" but about putting in the proper time to make sure you don't fuck it up. Underestimate it at your peril.

Secondly, here's your raw top level profile: finance/engineering school, you work in finance, and you have a CFA. You may be the life of the party in a room full of accountants and finance guys, but outside of that, you'll come across as a bit one-dimensional and a bore. B-school isn't a finance degree. It's a pretty wide dispersion of folks from different walks of life and occupations.

Be interesting. How you do that is as unique as the individual, and that's for you to figure out. Why? Because you have your own interests and values.

What if I suggested that you get involved as an activist in Gay, Lesbian, Bi and Transgender political groups in Australia? Would you? Because there's certainly folks at these top schools (some of whom were in finance like yourself) who have done so. But they didn't do it because they thought it would help their b-school applications.

Or how about your local synagogue or Jewish organization? Maybe you can convert just for the sake of your b-school applications.

Or how about enlisting in the military reserves? Or becoming a volunteer firefighter? I'm sure putting your life in potential danger is sure worth it just for your b-school apps.

Or start a band? I'm sure in just a few short weeks you can mix like Calvin Harris, wax poetic like Kendrick Lamar, or play guitar like Slash.

Get involved in something that you'd actually do regardless of b-school applications. If you need b-school admissions to be a reason to get involved, well, then, just volunteer at some local charity, tutor kids, or fundraise for your university and end up being a McApplicant like all the other applicants who are trying to window dress their way to some profile they think will actually past the sniff test with an adcom, especially when compared to folks who actually do it for the right reasons - you can't fake this shit.

Short of volunteering for ISIS or some militant Islamic group, the canvas is completely yours to fill.

If you get involved for the right reasons, you will be interesting. If you try and reverse engineer and window dress this shit, the only person in the room you're fooling is yourself.

Alex Chu www.mbaapply.com
 

Also relax a bit. Again, there's some other posters who have been in touch with HBS and they've posted on here saying that even any arrogance rubbing off your profile will get you dinged by the adcom.

Something else nobody's brought up: there is a significant luck factor involvedd. There's some near-perfect profiles that were dinged by HBS and Stanford last year. It doesn't mean they did anything wrong it just means that they had too many applicants who were in that league to take them all. There's also a human luck element. It's extremely unlikely that you will know the personalities of everyone who reviews your file. You can't really anticipate whether some of the content on your essays is going to rub people the right way or the wrong way. Something I encountered personally is that you might strike one interviewer as an aggressive go getter, while another might feel that you are being unrealistic.

Different schools also have different goals that you can ferret out by talking to enough people. HBS has already been discussed here(posters have said they're trying to broaden their student body), others have had good results with some students and want more (ref my post on Kelley), and others want large numbers of international students (I've been told that about Emory/Goizueta).

It also can vary year by year. I heard through the grapevine at one of the schools I applied to that they had over twice the normal number of applications for the class of 2017 and I've been told similar rumblings from other folks. A lot of us who simply don't have the option of waiting until next year had to take schools a bracket below what we wanted as a result.

 

It's great that you're asking this question now! Alongside the other great feedback you've gotten in this very energetic thread, I'd like to emphasize two key ideas: leadership and impact. A great GMAT is one crucial leg of a strong application to top MBA programs, but we work with lots of re-applicants every year who come to us after learning the hard way that a 770 isn't enough. Leadership -- as Harvard puts is, "a habit of leadership" -- and impact, i.e. doing stuff that impacts others, be it the organization, your peers/classmates, end users or beneficiaries of a community service initiative, or participants in an initiative you spearheaded -- are what makes a successful application for top business schools. Have an impact, benefit others, and make a habit of it.

www.StacyBlackman.com
 
Stacy_Blackman:

Leadership -- as Harvard puts is, "a habit of leadership" -- and impact, i.e. doing stuff that impacts others, be it the organization, your peers/classmates, end users or beneficiaries of a community service initiative, or participants in an initiative you spearheaded -- are what makes a successful application for top business schools. Have an impact, benefit others, and make a habit of it.

^This. Don't get too caught up in stats - they are a pass or fail. If there is a secret sauce, then it is taking initiative and creating positive influence with everything you do. This characterizes three persons I know to have been accepted at HBS before me and I was accepted at HBS 2+2 with both GPA and GMAT below median myself.

 

You're already counting yourself out way too early. Given Baruch's location there is some placement on the Street and a decent alumni presence. If financially or other personal reasons you can't transfer. What you can do during undergrad is:

  • Crush your coursework, 3.8+ GPA
  • Get involved on campus, do some relevant clubs and get some leadeship positions where you can show the impact you made with the organization
  • Do brand name internships. Since you're in NYC you'll be at an advantage where you can do some relevant internships during the semester. A lot of other schools, even targets don't have this given their locations. Some will be part-time or unpaid, but if you manage to do 1 or 2 early on you'll have an advantage when sophomore/junior summer internship recruiting comes around and you have an internship that other students may not have
  • Networking: Connect with alumni who are on Wall Street through school-facilitated events/sites or even cold contacting via LinkedIn. Introduce yourself and build a relationship with them, showing your interest in their careers and their paths
  • Don't forget to enjoy college and have fun, don't just put on blinders on Wall Street - explore everything you can, personally and professionally

It's honestly too early to even have bschool on the radar. You're talking about something that's essentially a decade out - a lot can change in that time period. You can end up getting the dream job you want out of undergrad and not even have to go to bschool. I think my last bullet above is one of the more important ones.

 

Some other things:

  • Learn what Wall Street entails, do you know what job function or role interests you? Or are you just going of the stereotypes you see from movies?
  • And I guess to answer your original question, plenty of alumni from average undergrads get into top 10 MBA programs. These people usually have some combination of strong work experience/employers, good GPA, good GMAT, good professional/personal story. But it's not unheard of for a person from a Penn State-caliber school and end up at a program like Columbia. Top tier bschool admissions are different from top undergrad admissions - they look for different things.
 

Prestige matters. Because more often than not people who go to prestigious university usually get the prestigious jobs.

BTW a 4.0 at OSU is a incredibly achievement. OSU is a solid school.

 

Yes, but not for the reasons you think.

If you go to a non-target, you have a MUCH less chance of getting the type of job that MBA's recruit from. There's A LOT more people from ~Top 25 schools than other schools at the MBA business schools">M7 business schools, but that's also because there's A LOT more people at top banks/consulting firms/tech companies/etc from Top 25 undergrad schools.

There's plenty of people from non-name undergrad schools in the top schools, but they tend to be people who got high GPA's and got a prestigious job. If you get a prestigious job out of a no name program you'll probably be fine getting into a top business school. There's some bias in adcoms towards top undergrad schools, and if you're a marginally candidate it could move the needle one way or another, but getting good work experience will be a much bigger battle.

Also, If you do go to a non-target, getting a high GPA is a must (if you go to a top program, a lower GPA is usually fine...which makes sense since the competition is much higher at Stanford than OSU). In your exact example, A 3.9-4.0 from OSU is probably indeed around equivalent to around a 3.4-3.5 at Stanford in adcoms minds, assuming the same exact work experience. The issue you'll face is though, every bank and consulting firm will hire a 3.5 from Stanford, but at OSU none of them come on-campus, and you'll have a harder time getting your foot in the door, even with sky high GPA, just from the fact its a non-target.

--- Edit

Ohio State University is ranked higher than I assumed, around 50, so things might be a bit easier than I imply above.

 

No I will actually be a freshmen at the Bocconi in Milan in September. idk anything about OSU. I just googled worst universities in the US and I came up with that... I hope that Bocconi will give me some fairly good opportunities in the US

 
Big4toBanker:

My plan is to start applying in October/November next year and I was wondering if there is anything I could do to improve my chances. I feel that being Indian is a huge advantage given how overrepresented they are in top MBA programs.

Thanks!

.. you mean "disadvantage"?

 

It's impossible for anyone to comment on your chances with only that information.

Your work experience may or may not cut it. It's going to depend on things like the impact you've had, leadership experience, management experience, and how interesting your projects were.

And even if you hit it out of the park with your work experience, your GMAT score, GPA and extracurricular involvement will play a huge role in getting into an MBA business schools">M7.

 

I am also currently pursuing an Masters degree in Finance at an almost no-name school. To make a long story short, I had a few issues with my visa and the only way I could continue to work in the US was to go back to school. I didn't have much notice and therefore not enough time to find another school so I ended up going here. I'm assuming this doesn't help me in any way at all but would this hurt my chances?

 

I appreciate the reply , what are the major factors that are involved with the overall factors of the applications. I have been trying to research as much as possible, however I feel it is not as useful as hearing from someone who has experience.

"I do not want your kingdom." "I want you head" -Conan the Barbarian
 
trailmix8:

it won't not get you into a top 15 MBA program.

+1 to this. Those numbers won't disqualify you, but the rest of your applications needs to be top notch. Don't waste time retaking the GMAT. Get te rest of your package together.

 
solntsevskaya:

What if the OP's GPA was 3.7 & GMAT over 750?

If that was the case, and all other things were completely equal, then he'd have a better shot than the guy with the 3.5 and 710, but all other things are never equal. That person with the 3.7 and 750 may have shxtty work experience, shxtty interview skills and a generic application. He/she is going to get rejected almost everytime.

 

I mean that a lot of people spend all of their time trying to get that magical GMAT score that they think will give them a better chance of being accepted. Realistically, if they got a score that was 20 points lower and spent the extra time crafting a good application and preparing for interviews rather than retaking the exam, they'd probably have a better chance of getting in. I've seen plenty of people with GMAT scores in the mid-600s get accepted to top 5-7 schools.

All of the talk about needing a score in the high 700s just distracts people from what they should really be focusing on and helps the GMAT prep companies make a killing.

 

Its impossible to give you any advice here without more information. Where is your university ranked, what is your major/gpa, what do you do at the fortune 500, how long have you been there? GMAT is also a very important part of your application and just because you intend on getting a high GMAT doesn't mean you'll be able to. Given your non target and non elite work experience, you are going to need at least a 740 to enter the conversation

 

My university was recently ranked 123rd within a list of top 250 public schools in America. My GPA fluctuates per semester but on average stays around the 3.9 range. I now have a 3.6 cumulative GPA because I received a D in a non business course which was really easy but I just took on too much responsibility that semester as I mentioned in my initial post. I am now retaking that course which will bump my GPA back up to the higher end of the 3.9 range. I am a dual major in both finance and accounting and minoring in information systems. My role at the fortune 500 company is a financial analyst role. I understand that it is hard to get a 740 but hypothetically speaking, if I do get a 740 or above on my GMAT do you think I have a chance at a top MBA school? My top choice is Olin business school at Washington university in st. Louis.

 

You need to keep the GPA high given the non prestige university. A 740+ will be a huge help if you can swing it. A school like Olin has a 696 average GMAT so a high GMAT is probably enough to get you in there. Don't really know how your work experience will be viewed.

 

ibanking and consulting experience is def. not necessary to get into a top MBA. In fact, almost all of the top MBA programs have less than 30% of its student body composed of ex-bankers/consultants (with schools like Harvard taking well less than 10% from banking). M/B/B will almost certainly get you into a top program... can't say the same about banking (GS/MS will help, but not to the same degree as M/B/B). But honestly... 70+% of students don't come from these two industries; why are you worried?

 

well the thing is, I really think I want to study engineering because it interests me, and its versatile, but I also have a strong interest in consulting, and if I don't get into right out of undergrad (which is probably what is going to happen statistically speaking, especially since eng lowers your GPA), then I don't want the EE degree to keep me out of getting into a top business school, and maybe trying again from there. Also, most posts I've read have said that if you don't get good internships (i.e. I-banking/consulting) out of undergrad, then you won't get into a top MBA. Who knows, I might not even care about consulting anymore, but I still want an MBA from a top school so I can move up into management at my engineering firm (this is something I KNOW I want to do) or so that if I do consulting in the EE field, the prestige can help carry me a bit further. So that's why I care, but yeah.

So now the question is, what kind of companies would top MBA schools want to see from an engineer?

 

well the thing is, I really think I want to study engineering because it interests me, and its versatile, but I also have a strong interest in consulting, and if I don't get into right out of undergrad (which is probably what is going to happen statistically speaking, especially since eng lowers your GPA), then I don't want the EE degree to keep me out of getting into a top business school, and maybe trying again from there. Also, most posts I've read have said that if you don't get good internships (i.e. I-banking/consulting) out of undergrad, then you won't get into a top MBA. Who knows, I might not even care about consulting anymore, but I still want an MBA from a top school so I can move up into management at my engineering firm (this is something I KNOW I want to do) or so that if I do consulting in the EE field, the prestige can help carry me a bit further. So that's why I care, but yeah.

So now the question is, what kind of companies would top MBA schools want to see from an engineer?

 

If engineering is something that you are passionate about then you should pursue it. Your college experience is about the journey not the final product (i.e. GPA and diploma). You can major in engineering and still maintain a solid GPA. An engineering background will provide you with a solid foundation from which you can delve into banking or consulting.

Top b-schools are looking for well-rounded applicants and this includes people from diverse backgrounds (bankers, consultants, military men, fine art appraisers, etc). You need a solid GPA, strong GMAT score, community involvement, and a few differentiating factors. Good luck.

 

Don't worry, there are tons of engineers in Top 10 business schools. There are also lots of engineering applicants and the Top 10 schools draw from a global pool, many with good grades. That said 4 to 5 years of really impactful work experience as an engineer can overshadow a less than perfect GPA.

 

That is a long-standing rumor that I did not find to be true. As a sales-trader, I've never worked professionally with a "team" on a project in the traditional sense, but I had no problem in admissions nor did a colleague who started at Booth right after I joined the firm. You just have to spin the teamwork element in your essays and show them you are not a crazed loner in your interviews.

 

I don't think this is true. There are several key differences between "leadership" and "management," and you would be keen to formulate an opinion on what leadership means to you and how those concepts are different.

Following up on the PM's you sent me, I would say that what would most likely prevent you from getting into a top business school, if anything, might be either (1) not having a clear story as to why an MBA is essential towards your achieving your career goals, or (2) perhaps the existence of a defeatist attitude on the part of your prospective recommenders, if they are anything like your co-worker that curiously told you that you had "no shot."

When I think of my peers and friends on the buy-side, most of them wouldn't go back to get their MBA unless they needed it to somehow move up in their career. I would say that if you think business school somehow opens some additional channels for you to gain access to prospective employers, then go for it. However, I think that hardcore networking and even just calling upon people that you already know would be the better way to go. Business school is expensive, and "looking for direction" or "good social opportunities" -- as you suggested in prior threads -- probably aren't good reasons unless you have boatloads of money saved up. Buy-side hiring is challenging coming from an MBA program and requires a lot of legwork, so even though I understand that you're trying to upgrade into a different role than you have now in the same industry, I don't think an MBA is going to make it that much easier for you to make that transition. Whether you're in business school or not, how likely you are to get the job you want will depend a lot on your network. A lot of buy-side recruiting is not formally organized at business schools, no matter which business schools we're talking about.

Lastly, if you already think the MBA is a "must" for you, then you should really start thinking about HOW you're going to craft your story for admissions. Having good reasons to pursue your MBA is critical and knowing nothing else about you, this would be my greatest concern if I were applying to business school again / in your shoes. It's not your job that would prevent you from getting in; it would be your apparent lack of good reasons or conviction. I worked in private equity and spent most of my essays writing about my love for art, and how a top tier MBA would help me use my business skills to serve the arts. It's probably not the type of thing most people would write about, but evidently it was good enough for me. Anything's possible as long as you have reasons that will resonate with the reader.

​* http://www.linkedin.com/in/numicareerconsulting
 

The majority of finance-types won't have any "management" experience before b-school. You can be a "leader" by excelling at what you do, taking initiative on a project, mentoring younger employees, devising a new process, etc.

 

Hi Soontobeaconsultant, I think you haven't gotten a lot of replies because you have a lot of general stuff in your query -- so let's break it down. First, leading with the GPA doesn't help as much as first talking about what you want to do. By your name, it appears you want to be a consultant. A management consultant? You say you have worked in many countries -- that's interesting -- doing what?

Also, what kind of undergraduate education did you have? Where/what did you study? And are you a good test taker? have you taken the GMAT?

many questions! That's the only way some of us can help. So, the floor is open.

Betsy Massar Come see me at my Q&A thread http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/b-school-qa-w-betsy-massar-of-master-admissions Ask away!
 

How can I position myself to get into a top 10 MBA Program?

I go to HYP with a 3.1 GPA. Have yet to take my GMAT. Plan to go into a boutique investment bank. Varsity athlete. From the midwest, but I've taught myself and fluent in Mandarin.

Looking for advice on what to do post-undergrad graduation to make a unique career

 

Assuming you're a white male (if you're a black female it would be TOTALLY different), my thoughts would be that your chances of top 20 are still very good if you do well at work and progress steadily etc. but the chances of Stanford are literally zero - unless you discover the secret to cold fusion between now and then AND also get an 800 on your GMAT AND marry a billionaire who's dad donates a new research center.

So long as you do some cool work and get a 700+ GMAT score you can easily get into top 10-20 business schools even having come out of Rutgers and so forth... stanford is just fucking impossible though, for almost everyone...

 

Much like job diversity initiatives, and even undergraduate admissions, if you are an above average under-represented minority (meaning black, hispanic, native american) or female in the business school world (but not law or med schools), then you are more "desirable" as a candidate and thus have less to compete against in the pool of other URMs.

 

Yeah, if your GMAT is below 700, you can forget about Top 10. If your GMAT is over 750, you MAY have a shot. First, get your numbers right. Then, take care of the fluff like demonstrated leadership and social conciousness and ethical responsibility, which a lot of candidates ignore, but which adcom cares about deeply. After that, sit back and pray like crazy.

 

Don't mean to be racist or anything, but that previous comment by someone else about Asian-American and White Males versus African-American Females just happens to be accurate. That is just the way it is. Nothing you can do about it.

 
oasissnorkeling:
Say I get a nice rotational financial analyst program at a Fortune 500, stellar gpa (finance) at Rutgers, and do above average on GMATs, what are my chances of getting into a Tier 1 Bschool (top 20 or whatever). And more specifically Stanford if anyone has any info on that. Thanks
I'm going to have to agree with the above that your chances at Stanford are slim to none. Obviously you've only given us a small sample of your statistics/accomplishments, but assuming they are indicative of your general profile you are coming up way short.

I speak from experience. I applied to Stanford this year. I too come from a non-prestigious university with a strong GPA (computer science). I landed a 760 GMAT, have IB --> PE experience, and a very diverse set of ECs/community involvement. I even have extended family that are Stanford alums and a rec from a Stanford alum. I'd also easily qualify my Stanford essays as the best ones I wrote. All of this and I wasn't even granted an interview.

After interacting closely with their student body it is quite clear that they value folks who are "off the beaten track" far more than the traditional "Fortune 500" types. So -- feel free to set your sights on Stanford, but recognize that you're going to have to step up your ambitions significantly in order to be considered.

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CompBanker][quote=oasissnorkeling:
After interacting closely with their student body it is quite clear that they value folks who are "off the beaten track" far more than the traditional "Fortune 500" types. So -- feel free to set your sights on Stanford, but recognize that you're going to have to step up your ambitions significantly in order to be considered.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "off the beaten track"? I read somewhere that H/S has mostly people with only a few years of work exp. so I was wondering how "off" can they really be.

Do you guys think Stanford's acceptance rate is low because so many people, who took the typical IB/Finance path, applied?

 

Haas is pretty hard to get into but that's not to say you can't get in. You didn't provide a whole lot of information so it's hard to tell. You need to start networking with students and attending informational sessions to get more insight into the school.

 

No MO, brah. Stay away from it. It's easier to lateral from FO to FO than MO to FO (even if it's within the same firm). From your list, I would go with CRA.

 

Consulting is not my end goal outside of MBA school, though. and the consulting offers I've received aren't as related to financial services as I want to be. so my question is really just what's best to get into MBA cuz from there I think I can take it from there.

 

I disagree, there's been many people that have transferred from MO to FO. Especially within the same firm.

MO at a top tier BB > middle-tier consulting. Trust me.

I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.
 

Hey there, Well one thing is for sure going for you: You are gonna have a VERY unique profile when you do apply.

:)

So the first thing is that you can get into an MBA, even a top MBA without having a job in New York City. I mean South Korea is a huuuge country. You come from a good finance job in Korea, even if their finance industry is not as strong as other countries, you will be competitive (I mean assuming the rest of your profile is fantastic).

What makes no sense at all (from a personal perspective) is for you to go into something you have to interest at all (Say joining Samsung and working in tech, even if Samsung is a very strong name). All it will mean is that you will spend 3-4 years of your life doing something you don't want to do, and it will be harder for you to change later!!!

If you know you want to go into finance now: Try and get an analyst position either in Korea or neighboring Asian countries, and see what happens. You can use your other ideas (working for big engineering firms etc.) as a backup plan.

But you are for sure right about one thing - if it's gonna happen, this move from engineering to finance, it will most likely be made easy by your networking - so joining finance clubs, cultivating your contacts, etc etc etc... is probably the best thing you can do for yourself right now.

Best, Jon

 

thanks for the answers everybody. Yeah I think I will work my ass off and try to get some experience from clubs or self investing in the financial area. If I dont get into an analyst position I think my degree will help me get into a good tech company, and after some years there I hope to be able to get into an mba before I turn 30. And yeah, I will also try to look to schools out of the MBA business schools">m7 like Duke, NYU, UVA and so forth. Again, thanks!

 
  1. MCDP has been discussed here before, just search. Generally you obviously still have chances coming from non-MBB but you need high quality experiences. I don't know MCDP but if that gives you strategy projects, you're ok.

  2. Don't know about ZS and IBM. PwC really depends on team, who are you interviewing with?

 
m2:
PwC supposedly actually have a strong strategy practice, but then there's the Big 4 stigma...
There is no Big 4 stigma. Deloitte does just fine despite the fact that prestige whores enjoy shitting on them for no reason.

I just didn't think PwC had a strong advisory practice since they sold what they used to have to IBM (which is now IBM GBS) back in 2002. I know they've been trying to rebuild their advisory practice, but I that's very recent and I find it tough to believe that they've made a ton of headway.

 

Thanks for all of the feedback, it's been very helpful. Especially 2x2 your breakdown was particularly insightful.

To summarize, here's what I've gotten out of this discussion:

  1. Acc/ZS/IBM/PwC all seem to be roughly similar when it comes to exit opps, so choose more based on fit and type of work preference rather than on any sort of marginal difference in name brand.

  2. Brand name is not very diffuse in consulting (mostly held by MBB/Parthenon/Monitor/Booz). Having that said, Acc is a pretty good place (better than most post-college opps) to start that does not close the door at top 10 b-schools. HWS may certainly pose more challenging, but even those are not impossible. 5-10 schools are certainly possible with the right combo of GMAT/recs/solid job performance.

Question: I don't think this exists (and I've looked around for it with no luck), but does anyone know if there is anyone who publishes the places that various b-school admits come from. I know they often have a basic breakdown such as 25% consulting, but it would be interesting to see which consulting firms these people are coming from.

 

ive meet various people who worked at big4's advisory practices and now attend MBA business schools">M7 bschools. your experience is merely one part of the application. i suspect it is very important, but not the sole merit for acceptances. keep in mind, my 2cents...im not in business school....yet

 

Well I have no idea what the top 10 are...top 2 i get...but regardless, i'm telling you...it really doesn't matter.

I got into every school I applied to, 4 of which are ranked 16 or higher by USNews...and I promise very few/no people in the b-school admissions world have heard of my firm. I'm a white male, have never volunteered for shit, and went to a private but completely regional undergrad.

You can get in just about anywhere with just about any background. Outside of literally HBS and Stanford, I would select a b-school based on where you want to work post-grad (geographically).

 
  1. That is not exactly true. Yes, MBB name brand gives you a leverage in getting into HSW, but mid tiers such as MONITOR, LEK, and Booz place well into MBA business schools">M7. You really need to look at this admission process holistically. It is about how you present your skill sets and life experiences. These schools will look for qualities such as leadership skills, team work experience, quant ability (as crunching number is a huge part of running a successful business), people skills. If you think the experiences at Accenture are not enough to demonstrate these qualities, you may have to go out and participate in additional activities. Having said that, focus on developing your character holistically, rather than for admission process because these admin people who have seen thousands of applicants over years can tell if you are genuine about this whole process or another HSW wanna be. Getting into HSW should not be seen as your goal in life but rather another step you are taking to develop your skills and mindset.

2.I do not know much about IBM and ZS. So, I cannot speak much about it. But I will tell you specific efforts that PWC has been taking to rebuild their consulting practice. Recently, the firm acquired Diamond and part of Bearing Point (consulting for government) to get back on track. With the amount of resources (cash and experts) the company has, it is a force to be reckoned with.

Make the most of your stay at Accenture and you will be fine.

Good luck.

 

there's not a strong correlation between the intensity of the experience and the acceptance. more on if you have a legit experience (op at BB is very solid) and good numbers, and a good reason why you want to attend B-school. not everyone's from IBD in top b-schools.

 

really? I might actually opt for this route then, because I have a 3.3 GPA (entering Junior year @ a non-target I'll end with a 3.5-3.6 cumulative / 3.8-4.0 major gpa)....

and I'm starting to realize that ibanking is sort of a long shot at this point, and I don't even know if the hours are worth it/i want to do it....(i think itll bother me that the extra hours i worked at ibanking, i could have actually made more if i devoted it to starting my own business on the side, which is something i really would love to do)....

thanks for the advice

 

You can be a Camp Counselor and get into a top tier B-School. It's about GPA / GMAT and what you learned in your 2 to 3 years since college, hence why one is asked for the essay.

The top tier schools seek diversity of backgrounds for their full time programs.

But you need to lift the GPA, unless you are an astronaut or Nobel Peace Prize winner. 680+ on the GMAT, too.

Good luck.

Deppster
 
deppster:
You can be a Camp Counselor and get into a top tier B-School. It's about GPA / GMAT and what you learned in your 2 to 3 years since college, hence why one is asked for the essay.

Bwahahahah...please...tell me youre still in high school.

Even if you have a 750 GMAT and a 3.89 GPA, if you plan on relying on your essay to make up for lackluster work experience, you better have the writing skills of Shakespeare or Trotsky.

Lesson of the story: Work experince > GPA & GMAT

 

every week there is one of these posts on here. while in undergrad I worked in admissions office for a top bschool.. and hopefully can offer advice that will stop the incessant posts about this.
essentially high gmat is essential. solid recommendations. high gpa is good but not the deal breaker. WHAT DIFFERENTIATES THE CANDIDATES: -your essays.. -your personality -your goals -believe it or not, admissions officers are often bored to death with the 100hr/wk ibanker, hence competition is harder amongst you guys than it would be if you had gone a different route. which is why you all think this is such an Everest of a climb.
come across as someone who is interested in something other than moving to PE and making X bonus. What drives you beyond that?

 

I won't pretend I know, since I was similarly in your shoes, but I think a lot of it will boil down to luck for you. You're competing against a pool with a similar background, (ivy/top UG, BB/MM banking, etc.) - and often times it may just boil down to an essay or rec since there are so many candidates in that category.

That, and I imagine there will be a stronger bias against some finance candidates in coming years, as top schools try to not be dominated by banking/consulting types.

Caveat - I'm not an admissions guru, but am applying next year to HBS/GSB/Dartmouth - and have been talking to some well known admissions consultants. I was in MM banking but left for a startup.

 

I agree w/ the last two posts. Your application has everything you need to qualify you. So every application is going to be a role of the dice. If you apply to enough schools enough times, odds are very high you will get into at least one. Think Meph runs in Diablo II, Raids in EQ/WoW/FFXI, Opening packs or playing tourneys in MTG, our childhoods are full of similar examples. Just dont be picky and you will get into one.

 

You should start doing some community involvement in some fashion, I some of my fellow analysts were in the big brother program for a couple years before applying, there is time if you make it. You gotta do something that you actually care about and have shown dedication towards. This is what will separate you from the plain vanilla finance guys: being passionate about things other than your career.

 

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If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

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If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

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