How to Break into the Hedge Fund Industry
Hi,
I am a web designer and would like to cater my services towards hedge fund companies. Can anyone be so kind and advise how I can reach potential new hedge funds and create their website for them? Perhaps website and transition to IT service.
Your help is greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Tommy
Most hedge funds will already have state of the art websites (its 2017), but you can utilize LinkedIn to look for open IT positions at hedge funds. You should also try going to diff hedge funds websites in their "Career" section to look for job postings or to submit an application.
Why not just start your own fund?
Realistic chances of ever landing a hedge fund job? (Originally Posted: 09/09/2013)
I'm going to try and keep this short and organized. After roughly a month of browsing the forums I've decided to start a thread and hopefully get some more precise insight on my situations.
Background: Have the passion for Finance, stocks, etcetc. Go to Fresno State and currently getting a business degree. Have roughly a 3.4-3.5 GPA (think its 3.49 to be exact, been slacking a little and am about 90% sure I could knock off back to back 3.8's+ if I get back into the books). Currently no real extra curricular activities besides being in a social fraternity and various volunteering for things like Boys and Girls Club etc.
Question: Currently I'm a business marketing option here at Fresno State and thats because I'm thinking about going into the sports agent industry. Although sports agent isnt my first choice (would be my second of course, lots of my friends are athletes and would be my way of breaking into that industry) my worry is that I switch my option to Finance and because I've went to such a non target college (I kick myself everyday for not choosing a better school) I'll never be able to break into the hedge fund industry. Every single day I've been debating whether I should just switch to Finance and "go" for it, but then I come on here and read stories about guys that went to top 15 or top 25 schools and are stuck in somewhat dead end positions hating their life. I end up thinking... well if that happened to them, whats going to happen to me? Maybe I'm being too cynical or just dont understand the industry enough, of all the finance people I've met here I only know 1 thats graduated from Fresno and got into an actual investing type position and thats because his uncle runs a fund in Chicago (i think, he was an exchange student so his number changed and i just sort of lost contact with him). Another problem is that it just doesnt seem many of the people here know much about the industry (probably because we're not a school that would attract those types of students). I guess more than a specific answer I'm looking for a general opinion about my situation from people that have more knowledge than myself. Or maybe a career route I could take with a finance degree from a non-target, even if it is going to be much more difficult.
Anything is helpful and appreciated, even if its telling me my post stunk :D
Hopefully my post fits, isnt violating rules if so just lmk thx!
The honest quantitative answer is that your chances are low. I have to say that my qualitative answer based on your post is also low. The reasoning behind that is that: 1) While (like most people on here) you say you "Have the passion for Finance, stocks, etcetc" you don't really go into why/how this manifests in you having an actual knack for investing; 2) This is stereotyping, so forgive me if I'm off-base, but "finance" and "sports agent" are two of the classic "I think that would be cool and I perceive that people in those fields make a lot of money" answers to what you want to do with for a career, and they aren't really very similar in terms of what sorts of skill-sets/personalities are a natural fit.
It's entirely possible my qualitative portion is wrong, and if you have any additional thoughts/questions about the industry there are people here who can help you get answers and perspectives.
U said something thats veryyyyy important and I want to clear up in my post. Thats the sports agent thing, I was hesitant to even include that into my first post for the exact reason you said and I completely agree with you. It is a career that people always look at like "I wouldnt mind being Ari Gold." with no real concept that most agents represent players you've never heard of, arent making millions, and work insane hours / schedules for back ups in an extremely competitive field. Or the idea that you dump thousands of $$$ into players getting their training, housing, meals, etc in perfect order and they might not ever even make the league and pay you back. My reason for wanting to be in the sports agent business I feel is a tad different due to my conversations with friends that are going to be in some of the highest athletic levels, already in the field, and generally just things I rather not discuss here, but by NO means do I think of being a sports agent as a "im gonna b ballin with athletes at club LIV in miami with tons of women."
Maybe I dont have the finance passion like some people how could i ever b certain? All i know is that this itch to switch my major to finance keeps getting stronger and the single thing holding me back is the idea that I went to such a terrible school ill end up being a teller at bank of america (sarcasm.... a little lol). If I could go back I would have definitely chosen a better school.
Besides that the first part of your post is very interesting, maybe because I enjoy it theoretically and the idea of investing doesnt mean I would be good at it? I dont think you can truly know until your own ability until you actually invest. But basically you answer is kind of my biggest fear, that is my chances probably are very low.
I can say that in terms of going to a non-target school you shouldn't worry too much, if you network your ass off and are determined to land an internship or something relevant to the field then your chances will be much higher. However, based off your post it doesn't seem like you really understand the HF industry and where you could possibly fit in. Anyway, I went to a completely non-target liberal arts college and graduated with a shit GPA and a B.A. econ degree, but I still was able to land an entry-level analyst position for a hedge fund about 2 months after graduation. From my experience, the best advice I can give would be to do some top-down research and figure out where you fit in. By this I mean, start researching the HF industry as a whole, for example, get a basic understanding of all the different types of hedge funds and the strategies that they specialize in. Once you have that basic understanding, see which types of strategies interest you. Next would be to figure out if you want to be an analyst or a trader, a good place to start is understanding the basic differences between technical and fundamental analysis. Next you should do as much research as possible on the assets that interest you (equities, fixed income, derivatives etc..) That was just a very general few steps of advice, but the most important is to understand what HF's do and the different strategies that they employ.
There are tons of people that say they have a "passion for finance/stocks", therefore, I wouldn't ever say that phrase again, especially on an interview or to a possible connect. You should also do some research on the private equity industry, still hard to break into, but since it seems like you're unsure as to what kind of investing you want to do then it probably wouldn't hurt to look into.
Last thing, don't feel discouraged if people on this forum say you don't have a chance, just take it as a sign that you still have a lot of research and work to do. Remember, all it takes is that one person to say yes and give you a chance.
Would you be willing to speak more to how you accomplished this?
lol
I appreciate all the replies of course! I expect a few "you have no chance" people, and a few "anything is possible." As of right now I'm going to aim for a finance internship (willing to take anything at this point) this summer hopefully in San Francisco or Los Angeles. Next semester I was also thinking of possibly joining the Finance Business fraternity? What are peoples thoughts on this? Might be a good idea and easy way to meet some finance related minds since I dont really know any. I guess my last real question is when I graduate next fall semester what would be my optimal path, thats also realisitc?... Getting an IB job at GS is obviously a pipe dream and not reality. Coming from a non-target and being in California... Sometimes I think of moving to New York but in the back of my head I think "you could probably find jobs here, its not like the west coast doesnt deal with finance."
Thoughts? Am I crazy? Sometimes I just feel overwhelmed lol!
If I got a 2.12 GPA at my non-target my freshman year and, since then, I've interned at a hedge fund, 2 pe (buyout + pledge) funds, and 2 investment banks, and am currently talking to people at MMs and BBs (including Goldman IBD), then you can do it.
You just have to be RUTHLESSLY (calling up 400+ IBs till you get one offer) determined to change things like I was.
Wow that's a come-from-behind if I ever heard of one. Awesome job. So, in your experience, ruthless cold calling works? Good to know.
@ craigje1992
Talk about pounding the pavement. Well done man - two thumbs up.
To the original poster: there are certainly a bunch of people who have succeeded from more difficult backgrounds than yours (some are in this thread). I think they're right on "target" (see what I did there?) when they say network your ass off. However, I'm going to try and give you a bit more color.
I should preface this by saying I agree with Kenny Powers that your chances are low, but I hope you surprise me. The fact that you post things like "U" and "veryyyyy" on this forum causes me to think your chances are even lower than I would otherwise.
So, I'm going to try to imagine how you would get a job at my fund. As a preface, I should note we are not one of the snobbier places in the industry. First, you'd have to get your resume to us for consideration. This would be hard for you unless you had already worked at a place with a good reputation as we don't usually react well to cold emails, so you'd probably need to come through a head hunter. Head hunters will not give us your resume unless you have strong prior work experience given your college background. Failing a head hunter being wowed, if you knew someone well enough at my firm to submit your resume, that would work.
Now, let's imagine you got into a resume stack. Someone is going to screen the stack. They will probably ding you very quickly with a low-ish GPA from a low tier school in a major most of us consider to be a home for mediocre idiots as an undergrad. It is literally true that my admin has a degree that is a bit better than yours. The only way you can get out of an auto ding is to have worked somewhere or some collection of places that are incredibly impressive. Let's imagine you had a job that got over this hurdle. Whoever is doing the interviews is going to have to decide whether they want to interview you and, as spots are scarce, they will feel like they are taking a chance on giving you an interview instead of the guy from Princeton or MIT.
If you make it to the interview, whoever the analyst doing it is would give you an incredibly hard time. I would probably ask you very hard questions if I were your interviewer, because you would need to convince me you were not an idiot. The bar is, if anything, higher for you than it would be for the other candidates because you have such a non-typical background and if you get to second rounds and suck, people will trust me a bit less. I care about my reputation. So, this is to some extent a selfish maneuver. By the way, as I said, I think my firm and I are both relatively not snobby about schools, so this is a fairer shake than you'd get a lot of places or from some of my co-workers.
If you make it past first rounds, you have to really impress everyone you meet at your super day(s). Everyone, from the partners on down, will feel like we are taking a chance if we higher you, so you need to be very impressive just to have a shot.
All of that said, I think if you network your ass off and get great internships, you can make it work. Getting a great internship is probably easier in some ways and certainly more network driven than the process I just laid out above. The competency hurdles are lower.
Based on your post, and I don't intend to be rude, I'm guessing if I interviewed you for 10 minutes right now I'd conclude within the first 5 you were done and I'd send you home.
First off its my mistake for posting "u" and "veryyy" and underestimating the formality of this forum I guess. I definitely feel like this has been the most "realistic" post that truly shows what I'm up against. To address your "I don't intend to be rude" comment, don't worry about it. I would be offended if someone held back information on the basis of possibly hurting my feelings. On top of that your entitled to your opinion just as much as I am. Appreciate the post and would have to say it's probably been my favorite response since I started the thread.
Good. I'm glad and I hope you're fired up. Go kill it, prove you deserve it and maybe someday I really will be interviewing you and you will last more than 10 minutes.
Also, just because I think it's useful for others and because I've heard the target vs. non-target debate often, the reason I think I'm being unusually fair is that if you impressed me in a first round interview, I would let you get to second rounds.
A friend from college (and I went to a good college) recently graduated from a top business school, but worked at a well regarded consulting firm before. He wanted to move into finance at a hedge fund (not mine). A guy interviewing him asked him nastily technical questions and, even though he probably answered them correctly, got dinged because he didn't have the profile they wanted in terms of work experience. That strikes me as a bit unreasonable. If you answered hard questions correctly so I believed you could do the job, I liked you and you impressed me for some reason, I would let you move on to subsequent rounds of interviews despite your educational background.
And, like I said, some people wouldn't.
If you really want something, go for it and don't stop till you get there. If your not in it 120%, you defenitely won't get there- il tell you that much.
Which banking group to get best shot at hedge fund (Originally Posted: 04/10/2014)
Hey guys,
Can you share your thoughts on what area of banking (M&A, Sector coverage, etc) I should aim to get an associate position in after my MBA so I can have the best possible shot at getting into a hedge fund after 2-3 years? Let's just assume that banking associate to hedge fund is a feasible route (which may or may not be, but that's a separate question). Thanks!
Depends on the bank
Let's say top 5 BB's and top 5 boutiques
GS, probably FIG, then TMT MS, M&A then probably tech JPM, M&A CS, financial sponsors Citi, M&A Barclays, maybe natural resources? idk
I hate you.
Seriously though, the one with the best search bar. And the ability to spoon feed without spilling too much down ya face. Open wide, the aeroplane is coming.
Lehman Tech
HF recruiting isn't as structured as PE. Recruiting doesn't happen every year at smaller funds, so a lot of it comes down to relationship and when you reach out to headhunters.
In my group, of the analysts the year above me, 3 went HF, 2 to PE, 1 to b-school, 1 stayed on. In my year, almost everyone else left for PE.
@"Solidarity" How about associates? can they make the move to hedge funds as well? or is it very unlikely?
Honestly, my gut says it's almost entirely dependent on where you're getting an MBA
Here is some info on my background: I'm starting my MBA at a finance school (HSW), been doing investment consulting at a reputable place for three years now, and have CFA. My undergrad was engineering at a top 10 engineering school.
Ideally I'd like to jump to HF right after business school, but for the strategies I am interested in (long short equities, or distressed opportunistic) they require either banking experience or some sort of experience where you are exposed to company or security valuation. I don't have that, hence my plan to do i banking for 2-3 years and learn this stuff. I can learn this stuff on my own but not sure hedge funds would take a chance on someone with no prior professional experience on that type of work.
Welcome your thoughts...
Do you invest?
BX r&r
I do, but in general asset classes (vs. picking stocks). I've started reading valuation books and plan to put together a few pitch books for stocks before I start business school.
The break into HF? Interesting scenario (Originally Posted: 06/29/2016)
Hi monkeys, I'm currently a summer IB analyst at a boutique IB in my hometown as a rising sophomore. I'm at a non-target in the south (only non-target because no OCR) that has around 20-30 alums in the IB/PE realm, around 10 of those at BB. I've already reached out to several, asking them about their experiences and what not and any advice they have for me in terms of breaking into banking from a school like my own. With that being said, my end goal is to really work at a l/s fund, value/activist (or even an event driven) fund, or maybe a distressed HF. Macro funds have always interested me, but I don't necessarily find myself wanting to go into FX and currencies. Again, I'm only going to be a sophomore so I've yet to pinpoint EXACTLY what type of fund I want to pursue. So, to my question (there's a few parts):
Coming from a non-target, would it make more sense to try and break into investment banking if I knew I wanted to eventually work as a fund manager/PM? Should I look deeper into equity research instead (with those HF strategies in mind)? The majority of my alumni network have been in investment banking; very limited amount of alums in ER.
Do I transfer? Obviously SA recruiting ramps up the fall/winter of my junior year, so that gives me a smaller timeframe in terms of getting my feet on the ground running, especially if I were to transfer to a target school. One person in MM IB that actually transferred from my current school to a semi-target told me that it was already too late to transfer regardless of the school (ivy league w/ huge legacy and connections). The second part to this would be that I could always consider this same school for my MBA come time for business school applications to start, meaning that I wouldn't consider transferring and just wait to attend the same school as an MBA student down the road.
What should I look for next summer? A piece of advice I received from an alum at an EB told me that it's incredibly hard to go from the buy-side back to the sell-side in banking, telling me that I'd be better off doing the same SA stint at the same boutique I'm currently at for my post-sophomore summer. Again though, I'm a bit skeptical considering the end goal is to become a PM at a HF; leading me to believe that I should get that sort of experience as early as possible.
Thank you for ANY advice you may be able to give. Again, keep in mind that 1) my school isn't completely deprived of any banking alums, there are a couple but the network base is typically very young (primarily analysts and associates) AND 2) I want to make a move to hedge funds at some point. I know the odds of me being able to work as an analyst at a HF straight out of school are very low especially coming from a non-target.
Bump!
x
Breaking into the Canadian Hedge Fund Industry (Originally Posted: 10/07/2013)
Looking for advice to get into the Canadian hedge fund industry.How can i go about getting information, besides cold e-mailing, on what qualifications and experiences I need to get started. I have 2 years IB background at a small boutique, now non-existent unknown firm. I also am a CFA level 1 and CAIA level 2 candidate. Any information on networking in the Hedge Fund industry or the Canadian Hedge Fund industry in general?
also interested
They have hedge funds in Canada?
Of course, but obviously its not as large as USA or in Europe.
Honestly there are probably fewer than 10 true hedge funds in Canada with decent amounts of AUM.
You're most likely correct. But that doesn't mean i can't work for 1 of them.
I am correct and I'm just tempering your expectations. Of those 10, I'd only want to work for 2-3.
I agree, it's hard for ranking but not too hard to find better one. Pick the best one by considering all the option and go for it.
So which would be the 3 - 4 top ones in your opinion(s)?
West face Polar Vertex one (don't actually know them but returns seem great)
Indeed not a lot of true hedge funds in Canada but you can find a list here: http://www.bankacareer.com/?countries=canada&citiesandcountries=&types=…
For a list of funds in Canada: http://www.bankacareer.com/countries/canada/
And for any other country just use the map: http://www.bankacareer.com/funds-banks-world-map/
I hope it helps.
Thanks alot for this amigo. Looks like the boys will have to start networking in the US...
How do I get my foot in the Door with a HF? (Originally Posted: 09/01/2011)
I am a Corporate Tax Accountant with a large international company. I have over three years experience but want to make a change into a HF or IB. I live in NYC. How do I make the leap?
Recruiters, alumni, cold email, albourne village. There are plenty of resources out there.
Do you need to be employed full-time to join the forum?
I've covered all but Albourne Village, very helpful site. Thanks!
I was with a Big 4 audit practice and I landed a non-accounting role at a hedge fund. A recruiter contacted me about it. They specifically wanted someone from a cpa background. Sometimes it's just luck...
HF and IB are really quite different. What is the job role you are looking for?
This is what you need to do:
http://dealbreaker.com/2011/09/straight-male-model-will-enthusiasticall…
I landed a Private Equity Fund Services role in lower Manhattan.
it will be very tough.
to get into a hf
1) strong connection (family member. etc) 2) strong background (top ibd groups, top undergrad, etc) 3) luck?
I would suggest you develop your fundamentals by getting into IB first, unless you want to go to a macro fund which will require several years of exp on a desk at a BB first.
Well I got into PE and want to move to the front office. Any suggestions? What should be the time frame I stay at a place before i jump ship?
You are clearly missing the concept here and being way too vague. What is it that you want to do at an IB or HF? These are two completely separate animals.
...and two, what is that you do in PE?
Please excuse the year long break. Ideally what I am looking to be apart of is a Deal sourcing team. I've been attending PE/VC/Angel conferences through out NYC and I enjoy this aspect of the business. My current role has me at the end of the deals, I want to be involved from conception.
Breaking into Hedge Funds after Graduation with only one internship (Originally Posted: 01/07/2016)
Hi everyone
I am currently trying to break into the hedge fund industry. I am a history major with a six-month internship at an investment bank called Houlihan Lokey. I graduated from UCLA and played on the Men's Tennis Team. Right now I am currently in the process of studying for the GMAT. My questions are, what is the best approach for breaking into the industry? Will getting a MBA or Master's in Finance be beneficial in breaking into the industry? How effective is the network for breaking into hedge funds at a top 10 business school? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Why don't you continue at houlihan and then move into hedge fund after a few years?
That was the plan at first, however I did not receive a full-time job offer. There were some complications after Houlihan Lokey acquired the investment bank that brought me on as an intern.
Getting a job at a Hedge Fund-- Skills or Experience? (Originally Posted: 03/27/2016)
I'm a Finance major at a Semi-target in Texas who is primarily interested in getting a job at a hedge fund or perhaps at a prop trading firm. I've got a 3.8 GPA, but what you might call a 'lean' resume. I have one internship and a study abroad experience under my belt, but I don't have a whole lot else. This summer, I have the choice of either holding out and looking for another internship or spending the summer trying to add skills such as programming or beginning to learn a foreign language. Simple question: which is going to be a better pay off-- an internship that is most likely not in an area related to my career of interest or learning skills that may be useful when I'm actually looking for a full time job?
Are you a finance/accounting major?
Yeah. I'm a finance major.
Just how hard is it to land an HF job? (Originally Posted: 08/02/2008)
I've been reading on the forums and some people are saying that if you land a BB analyst position, it's pretty easy to get into HF after that. Others are saying you basically need to have a PhD in math to get in. So really, how difficult is it to get an HF job from college or from a previous BB analyst job?
I think the answer is that the difficulty of landing a HF job is dependent on a number of factors. First, not all BB analyst positions are equal. If you are coming from a top group vs a bad group odds of getting an HF job should be better.
Second, difficulty depends on the type of hedge fund you are trying to work for. If you want an analyst role at one of the top HFs, like Citadel, it is going to be considerably more difficult than a smaller shop.
Also, this question depends on what exact job you are looking for at a HF. If you want to be working in some sort of quant group, then you might need that math PHD which would make the job hard to land for most people. There are numerous different investment and trading strategies that demand different skills, so it would be easier to get a job in a strategy that matched the skills you built up as an IB analyst.
That's my general opinion.
www.sharpeinvesting.com
How can I get a hedge fund job? (Originally Posted: 06/30/2006)
Anyone have any tips on how to land a job at a hedge fund
well, i think first off you have to have a genuine interest in financial markets or at least come across as you do.
Get in with some headhunters / recruiters or post your resume in our Jobs section under Hedge Funds and anywhere else you can
learn about the different hedge funds strategies - our Hedge Fund Forum is a good place to start
When you interview, try to learn as much about that particular hedge fund as possible PRE interview. You want to be able to sell yourself based on the specific strategy they emply and why you would be a good fit.
Good Luck!
Good luck!
Hedge funds generally try to steal talent from other hedge funds, prop trading desks, sell-side research, and i-banking/consulting (for the very junior levels), in declining order. Knowing some of your background might be helpful to give more relevant advice, but here are a couple of thoughts regardless.
Even though it's the obvious first step in order to get your bases covered, I think it will actually be very difficult to find a good hedge fund position through a headhunter. Headhunters have very specific assignments and will not waste any time thinking about helping you. If you meet the criteria of a position they have in mind, then you're in luck and things will move forward; otherwise, you will get to the backburner.
One strategy that works -- and has worked for me -- is to contact alumni from your school's network who are in the field and ask them for advice in penetrating the industry. Never approach them and ask for a job or even an internship. Try to only get some advice and be sure to follow up (send an email every few months updating them on what you've been up to and, ideally following up on a comment of theirs during your initial discussion), build some goodwill, and eventually good things may come.
Keep in mind that hedge funds are a very closed circle -- most know each other, discuss ideas, etc. -- and constantly ask people within the network if they know of good guys. I was recently at an event and must have heard 5 hedge funds hiring, but they are not very active in their search. I mean, if another hedge fund recommends a guy they know (even if he's in i-banking, for example), they will look at him. Otherwise, they will just wait.
Another piece of advice is to include an investment idea writeup when you apply for a job. Even if you don't meet the exact qualifications, the PM may contact you if you have an interesting idea or if he just likes the way you think. I've heard a couple of people that got jobs that way. It works particularly well with smaller hedge funds, e.g.,
If you want to get a job at a hedge fund, you should first start out doing restructuring work for a creditor side i-bank like Houlihan, Lazard, Blackstone, etc.
Hedge funds invest in distressed bonds and are the ones that team up with restructuring professionals such as Houlihan. Therefore, it makes sense to build client relationships with these hedge funds by doing restructuring work with the hopes of being hired sometime down the road.
know markets, come with trade ideas
this is a double edged sword. especially if you are right out of school as most the time whoever your interviewing has 1000x more experience and they might teven have the trade on. Unless given a project, or asked, I wouldnt give my 'trade ideas'.
Plus, most the time you wont be putting trades on anyways, just doing the background analysis.
Did someone really just reference Houlihan in the same sentence as Lazard and Blackstone? I'll just assume this was in reference to hedge fund admin recruiting...
Lazard and Blackstone do more work on the debtor side than creditor. HLHZ does creditor work.
Can I contact alums working in the hedge fund industry for advice on getting a HF job out of undergrad? Ridiculous!?
bump
bump
Define "relevant" university degree. Plenty of people at different hedge funds make +200k without a business related degree. I've met people that majored in electrical engineering to psychology that hold these types of positions. Other than being viewed as a relevant learning experience, your track record on a small p.a. will likely not garner much attention. Making a scalable strategy is a whole different beast.
It might be beneficial for you to pursue prop trading. If you're really good, you can probably take away 200k.
Backstory and looking for advice on breaking into a Macro Hedge Fund. (Originally Posted: 01/06/2012)
Hey Guys & Gals!
Well first off let me start this by saying I have gone through the last 20 pages on this forum as well as doing an extensive search and discovering at least half a dozen posts that directly relate to this topic and all the information in those threads has helped immensely but I have still decided to start my own thread because of my unique backstory and looking for some honest advice.
A bit about myself. I am a 29 year old Canadian guy that is currently living in Sweden and I have absolutely 0 pedigree. For all of my 20's I have basically travelled the world(I tried to hitchhike around the globe living on less than 5 bucks a day) as well as working in various positions in various countries mostly relating to the nightclub industry and bartending. Having moved to Sweden a couple years ago now to live permanently with my wife who is from here I found myself at a bit of a loss with what to do in my life. I have always had a knack at making money and quickly found myself back in the nightclub industry bartending and actually took a bar over here as the General Manager with 41 staff working under me and making some pretty good money under the premise that I could buy into ownership of this club but was offered a very subpar deal after a year of service and decided to part ways with the owner. Not knowing what to do and a bit disallusioned I thought about daytrading, no clue why, just popped up into my head one day. Low and behold, I started in Forex and am actually extremely good at it. I have been trading full time professionally with my own money for the past 8 months quite profitably with not a single losing month and have found that I am well adapt at building mechanical systems as well as managing to be in the right place at the right time, its like a game to me. For the first few months I just devoured any material I could get my hands on, and read probably in the vicinity of 100 books on various Technical Analysis. I currently run 2 very robust day timeframe strategies and am making a very good living. But the problem is this...
I don't like to just make a good living I always want to be the best, the money is actually secondary haha. Call me highly competitive, but I have always aspired to be the top alpha and with a very quick witted intelligence and eye for details I usually am. So now, having devoured all those books, forming myself into a very capable forex spot trader I have my eye on the next level I wish to head for, the world of hedge funds. I am absolutely fascinated by economics now as well as other non-forex markets, there is this burning desire in me to just plow through any book I can get my hand on, especially pertaining to Macro. I am like a man on fire right now, my wife can't get 2 seconds alone with me because I am face first in my kindle day and night, so much to catch up on. I fell in love with Economics so much in the past few months that I have applied to the London School of Economics for there International Programme BSc in Mathematics & Economics for the upcoming year, its a start. In preperation for this I have started self study through MIT and there open source classroom taking 1 class per month at a quick pace.
So my question to everyone is, what is the best path for me here to get from A to B as a 29 year old 1st year Economics student with absolutely 0 pedigree and only trading my own account?
I have found an opportunity in my city where a new prop firm based 100% on spot forex was recently formed last year. They are currently looking for traders. I have fired an email to them with my resume as of yesterday and am waiting for a reply. I will follow up in a few days if I don't hear from them today. Will prop firms hire just about anyone? I have 2 very robust strategies that I use profitably but would not like to reveal the inner workings of them in to much detail outside of the basic technical analysis, will this be a problem do you think?
In my mind I have formulated the following plan:
Step 1. Join the prop firm for 2 years and build an auditable track record showing stellar profit. Step 2. While trading with the firm complete my BSc through LSE as well as all Economics Undergraduate + Graduate courses available through the MIT open source classroom. Step 3. Move my family to London and leverage my BSc + track record + travel experience to get an analyst position at a smaller Macro fund that allows analysts to run a small book after a short time (Is 33 to old to be an analyst?). Step 4. Steal all the best employees and start my own fund, get 10 billion AUM and break the Bank of Mexico! (Just kidding on the steal employees part, but look out Mexico.)
Thoughts? Opinions? Words of Encouragement? Words of Despair?
Don't bother telling me its not going to work out because chances are I am going to do it anyways and figure out a way. Also, I definately have the "it" factor. I don't know why or how, but the markets just speak to me through the voice of Auction Market Theory, but I am extremely humble and disciplined about it...I know the horror stories. I could spend the rest of my life making myself extremely wealthy simply by trading my own account but I want to go the hard route, I want the pedigree, I want to be able to sit in a room with top economists and chat. What do I need to do?
Would starting a blog now in the early stages of my adventure help perhaps and building up a large newsletter like Bronte Capital? What about writing for various sites such as seekingalpha.com? Perhaps if I could get enough people buying into my trade ideas I could leverage that into an analsyt gig somewhere?
I think a key is to find a mentor as well. I had a mentor early on in my Nightclub career and the ability to chat with someone openly, to help find ways down twisting roads helps immensely. Any suggestions on someone you may know in the Global Macro HF world that maybe has a similiar background to my own and would be open to the occasional skype session would be greatly appreciated. I am well versed in the use of the internet so if you just have a name I am sure I can do the rest and have no problem emailing people I don't know.
Thank you for any and all help.
I know a guy who made absolutely stellar profits for three years at a top prop shop in NYC (mid 6 figure total compensation every year). He did his undergrad at a good school in economics, and received a certificate in portfolio management with an A level gpa, and had an internship in hedge fund research prior to his working at the prop shop. He was rejected from/wait listed from every business school I know of having applied to. Just food for thought - prop shops get no respect, and skill is not necessarily the most direct route to riches.
Seabird, this is very disconcerting to hear about your friend. I assume he worked at a top prop shop like first new york. This seems to corroborate my view that traders have a very tough time getting into top business schools because adcom feels that their skills don't translate well into what these schools are looking for.
Darwiner, I would focus on getting a job in the business of trading and forget the education part of if...you arent going to learn anything with an Msc or online economics classes that you cant get in the market in my opinion. If I was you I would keep trading and growing your capital, keep actively looking for a job trading somewhere you can get more capital, and I would also try to build contacts in the industry by sharing trading ideas. I think a newsletter or blog is a cheap way to do this as long as you put in the work to make it good.
I just want to say good luck. Good to know that there are interesting people out there who have not traveled the well known path in life--keeps it interesting.
Possible to get a decent HF job without a headhunter? (Originally Posted: 03/30/2016)
I'm working at an EB and looking to work at an HF after my analyst years but not having much luck with headhunters. Does networking with funds ever work? Is there any other avenue to get with them?
bump
hf recruiting is tough right now considering how bad funds are bleeding.
Yes networking works very well but as one would expect if funds aren't hiring, there's nothing you can do about it. Would try to get introduced to whoever you can using your Rolodex and then try to set up quick conversations with them. Try to impress and ask good questions, but honestly a lot will not pan out to become interviews. Just a fact of life that people either won't exactly love you or won't end up hiring. Just need to be humble and move on.
This went way off topic but you get the idea.
Transition to HF industry - Odds/advice? (Originally Posted: 04/28/2010)
My first love (professionally...) was finance and investing. I did my undergrad degree in Finance, ran money (investment partnership) in college and spent summers interning for a couple of the big investment banks.
However, in the late 90s I got caught up in starting consumer Internet businesses. I did pretty well (sold two companies and have a majority stake in a 3rd profitable one) but have gotten burned out on the tech startup thing in the last couple of years and am being drawn back into studying the markets.
My question is about the feasibility of transitioning into the hedge fund space. I'm 32 and so while I'm not an old fogey by any stretch I'm also not the prototypical candidate. I did get an MBA from a Top 10 school during my decade as a tech entrepreneur and have solid quant/analytical skills but am worried that the lack of formal finance experience on my resume will disqualify me.
I've also thought about possibly just creating a small fund with money of my own and some friends/family. If I could establish a decent track record then perhaps that may actually be an easier path into HF than trying to land a position with a fund.
Given the limited info I've shared, if you were in my shoes what would you do? Feel free to be blunt. I'd rather hear how hard my path might be now than spend a year trying to land a job or start a fund only to find that out later.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Apply to Bridgewater Assocaites, they love the entrepreneur type. It would depend on what type of role youre looking to get in at though, as they tend to like the ivy league yougins if they're goin to train you.
Bridgewater wont really hire anyone over 30 unless they are extremely senior... plus they are really creepy and have feelings talks all day.
maybe going to the pe/vc arm of a bigger fund group (i.e. deshaw) might be a good way to smooth the transition
i suggest you target your search on small and medium-sized growth equity funds that focus on tech industry. you would be an intriguing candidate for those funds, and they tend to be less rigid about age and background. once you get some experience there, you can start moving to more traditional equity-focused hedge funds. good luck.
I think that with your background, you should look at VC and growth funds specializing in the tech space. It will get you some experience in valuing companies from an investment point-of-view whilst leveraging your experience in the tech start-up space.
VC and growth funds will respect your operational experience, so it won't be too difficult to sell them on your background. At the same time, you'll be able to establish a bit of a track record as a successful investor, and (probably) get to meet some people in the endowment/pension community.
After doing that for a few years, it shouldn't be too hard to set up your own fund or progress to a PM position within an established firm.
please. you should start your own fund.
Thanks for the feedback. Leveraging my past background does make a lot of sense and I have a lot of relationships within the VC space. On that note, how often does someone jump from VC to HF? I haven't seen anyone do that personally so was wondering how likely that would be to happen.
I do have some contacts at DE Shaw and a few private equity funds so I can put the feelers out there to see what the opportunities are as well.
Would love to hear any more thoughts people have.
I'm not aware of anyone who's made the jump from VC -> HF. They're very different industries, though I suppose if the HF is investing in start-ups, it could be relevant, but not many funds do that. Starting your own fund is a possibility, but most managers don't look kindly on people who start their own funds, as they'll a) assume you failed (why wouldn't you just stick with your own fund otherwise?) and b) worry that you'll have picked up bad habits/not been properly trained.
You do probably have a good background for tech focused funds, and an operating role at a PE/VC firm would also probably be a good fit. Not sure about DE Shaw, they're probably too quant for your skillset
why hf? why not ib, pe, am or working at an IT/tech co in snr mgmt?
you mention the possibility of opening up your own fund first. assuming that you have a strategy in your head, how long have you researched it for?
ok ok, they are just questions. but what i want add, from my personal experiences, is: don't feel you have to move to something similar to your past background. i don't know if that's what you had in mind when writing the OP; i can't tell from your OP if you REALLY hate what you used to do. if you do, it's much better to move away, but to emphasise the skills that you've gained during your interviews apps etc...
@BnewzSrumr
are you for real? i would like to hear more bout bwater! would be you so kind as to elaborate? pm?
interviewing there is an experience... there are threads about it or you can read about it here:
http://www.onedayonejob.com/jobs/bridgewater-associates/
I spent a day there for trading interview, definitely not the traditional format.
Start your own fund. Seriously. The goal of most people in this business is to run their own fund and the biggest obstacle is capital. I assume you’ve got some money and contacts with others who have money.
If you want to go the traditional route and join a large shop your best bet is to leverage your startup experience and become a tech sector analyst on the sell side or with a large buy side firm that has sector specialists.
start your own fund. hands down. it doesnt really matter how much you have, cus im sure you can roll up 30-50MM?
Analyst looking to get hired at a Hedge Fund (Originally Posted: 11/25/2009)
*note resume is 2 pages due to Razume formatting issues
so here is my current resume guys, never mind the formatting as razume messed it up, it is actually 1 page and the bullet points look better.
I also attach sample research when submitting my resume. Have not been getting any response yet though from places I've applied at. I think the primary reason is probably my lack of ivy league background, but one would think IRRs and a CFA would at least partially help with that
be rough though. critical insight is most helpful. thanks!
http://www.razume.com/documents/12704
you could definitely clean up the language, there is a lot of unnecessary stuff on there.
what would you suggest be removed?
Trying to transition to research role in a hedge fund (Originally Posted: 11/06/2010)
Currently I am working in a small boutique technology firm that focuses on hedge fund industry, it is quite interesting and challenging. I believe this is a great opportunity to enhance my career in the future. My job is basically researching for the sales side or do marketing research. I use many web tools, hedge fund database. My job is do lot of research in the web in terms of locating CTO, COO, CIO and do lot data input and analysis, write up, presentation for the business and even use different hedge-fund database and report to business development manager. Can somebody please give me some suggestion in terms of career advice.
As per my limited knowledge, my manager has lot of connection especially in the prime brokerage and in the hedge fund community. So I am thinking to work very hard at this place impress my boss and stay there at-least 9 month till I get the certification and experience and hopefully the job market will improve. In addition in my spare time will be taking Series 3 and Series 34 which solely focuses on futures and FX and take CAIA in March and September 2011, which quite important for Hedge fund. Also will add value by studying hardcore excel modeling, VBA using excel which I will be buying through Amazon.com. After the skills I will be networking to transition to the research side as a buy-side analyst
Please some kind word would be appreciated. Finally I got a great opportunity.
Hope to hear from you soon
A few things:
The CAIA is really only useful for people who work with hedge funds and not for hedge funds. The topics relate mostly to performance attribution, portfolio analysis and measurement, due diligence, and operational topics. It is a great exam for your current position but not for the position that you desire. Do the CFA instead.
I am assuming that English is your second language. I understand your writing but improving your written communication skills would serve you well.
Lastly, if you are serious about working at a fund, start following companies, develop trade theses, and start building a track record in a simulator.
What is the best curriculum land a job in HF (Originally Posted: 01/07/2012)
What is the best curriculum to land a job in HF?
I'm a bit confused because, from what I understand, you can break in through IB or PE (this would allow you to get on the job experience which is what HF look for I think), ?
I apologize if I sound dumb and out of my league but I'm still in 11th grade would like to familiarize myself with this industry. Thank you in advance!
Regards, A motivated student
Math/Physics/Applied Math @ HYPMS?
Quant fund (like DE Shaw, Getco, Jane Street): Math, stat, physics, applied math, or comp sci + math classes at HYPS (Wharton and MIT too), 3.7+ GPA, and a penchant for quantitative brainteasers (for interviews). Beware: being at a quant fund is very different than "investing," it's about using mathematical algorithms to find market discrepancies, not reading through company filings and valuing them. Some people love that type of quant workflow and make bank $$$ out of college. But you actually have to be really, really quantitative to get and hold a job. You need to have some baseline skills before you can realistically aspire for a career in this field. Plus it's sort of a dead end in terms of careers, but a pretty lucrative one!
Fundamental fund: Same college majors if trying to break through from undergrad, although could do economics with 3.9+ GPA. Interviews are less quantitative and often even case-oriented, but few post-undergrad positions. Probably have to go through 2 years in BB IBD, S&T, or high-exposure investment management to land a spot
And fyi it's spelled "curriculum." If you're in 11th grade, it's good that you are ambitious and curious, but focus on getting into a good college right now, because with a top 10 college admission, you will have a lot better career options (including HF). Worry about being the best student you can be, not so much about the career yet. Good luck!
Thank you very much for the reply!
I don't think it is about what you as much as as it is where you study. Even though I tend to agree with the opinions above that some combination of Economics/Math/Stats etc. would be desirable, I think that if you study at HYP or Oxbridge, you can also study Philosophy. I have personally witnessed the latter at Oxbridge (HF out of undergrad as philosophy major).
Suggestions on what works when trying to land the next HF job (Originally Posted: 08/14/2012)
I've found scraps of answers in other posts but not a really coherent narrative so far.
With 1 year hf analyst experience I'm looking to move to another HF role and I'm putting together my strategy. Aside from getting contact referrals, my strategy is::
a) gather a list of the funds that meet the broad criteria of what I'm after. I would prefer a role in a small team, perhaps a new fund set up by an experienced PM or something that would allow me to grow with them, but I digress. b) cold email them cv+inv.ideas and ask for an interview/discussion or c) Is contacting headhunters a viable option given that I'm looking for a relatively junior role? Do they actually deal with such roles or only more senior/experienced hires?
Does cold calling in such a case really work? I'm sceptical at the success rate of it. Obviously I'll go for it as I've got nothing to lose, but I want to be realistic about the prospects.
Is a separate note with a few actionable inv.ideas the best way to pitch myself? my background is not ideal so my strong points are exactly that, my ideas, short but successful track record, and character.
I would also love to land a job in US (for personal reasons) but that would require sponsoring. I will be going to the US for various reasons soon, so I was thinking of pitching myself and ask for an interview since I'll be around anyway. Would they even consider a junior analyst that requires Visa sponsorship?
Any ideas/suggestions on what has actually worked for you would be well received. Especially mistakes/errors to avoid. Don't know, I suppose when you're looking at things as an outsider it's rather easier to say what one should do, but when you are actually trying to work your way through it you start second-guessing your approach.
Thanks for any replies.
isn't there a shortage of H1-B visas right now?
I have no idea. I wouldn't mind waiting for next year's availability or whatever. I'm just wondering about the possibility.
Also, I'll add this to the original post, is contacting headhunters a viable option given that I'm looking for a relatively junior role? Do they actually deal with such roles or only more senior/experienced hires?
thanks.
Just read BlackHat interview and I believe he used a headhunter to make a move from one HF to another. So you can try that.
Situation is different cuz OP is a foreigner and got his anti-immigration shit going on cuz its election year.
Well, the Visa thing is not so much of a concern at the moment.
Any insights in the rest of my post?
Headhunter. I wouldnt go cold-calling people if you currently have a job...part of the reason cold-calling is so good for college kids is that they have nothing to lose.
Well, that shouldn't be much of an issue as I won't be in a job in a while. Ha! In general given I'm in an unusual situation at the moment that wouldn't be a problem. My PM knows and is happy to give a reference to anyone about me so no risk on that side.
However, I take your point that a HH might be a good start before the cold-calling thing. Any reputable ones in London?
Transitioning from IT to Hedge Fund (Originally Posted: 11/26/2013)
Hello have some questions on transitioning from a IT job to a career in hedge funds. In 2012 I graduated with a degree in Information System's and was recruited to an Information Technology Rotational Program for a major credit card company. I am now coming to the end of my program and currently work as a Information Security Analyst. I plan to move into an Risk Management Analytics position soon in the UK as well as get my MBA in finance from LBS.... Now to my question are there transferable skills I can bring to a Hedge Fund job? Will they like a person with my experience?
Also Im not 40 making a career change....23 if that helps
Thanks
LBS is a good start. Also see if you can start the CFA, maybe pass a level or 2 before full time recruiting starts. LBS should have plenty of alums working at Hedge Funds so make sure you reach out to them on day 1.
How to transition to research position at a hedge fund? (Originally Posted: 12/27/2013)
Hi all - I'm currently working at a quant hedge fund doing more tech stuff/execution trading, but I would ultimately like to move to a research type role at a long/short equities hedge fund i.e. non-quant. I don't have too many connections but I have a Electrical Engineering degree from a top university and have my CFA. I'm planning to start cold-emailing people at hedge funds that I want to work for. Should I start off by selling myself in the first email and see if they have any openings or go the "informational interview route"? If I go the informational interview route, I can have a good chat with them but how do I bring up the topic of working there? I'm just really unsure about the best way to approach this. I've tried to contact recruiters, but they really won't help me because of my non-traditional background i.e. not investment banking or equity research. Any helpful tips? Or has anybody made a similar transition that would be willing to share their story? I greatly appreciate any help.
There are two paths you could take: 1) go to sell-side research, get a couple years of fundamental research experience and switch to the buy-side. This depends on your age. 2) network with funds that are hybrid -- use both quant and fundamental analyses in their decision making. This include some notable quant funds like Two Sigma and Nine Chapters. It also includes growth oriented funds, where technical analysis plays a big component. Contact me further for more info.
Thanks KJ! PM'ed you.
How to get to hedge fund? (Originally Posted: 01/24/2014)
People get to hedge funds usually after working for about 2 years at an investment bank. Are banking and equity research the only routes that lead to hedge funds? Can starting out in trading help lead to a hf?
You should read this post if you haven't already: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/the-types-of-monkeys-in-the-trading-jungle
The short answer: Yes, you can move to the buy-side from trading, but you'll most likely be hired as an execution monkey.
From my experience, other than the games behind who is trading what and why, and the occasional arb opportunities from thinly traded securities (I was at a FI shop), and free dinners/drinks from the sell-side sales ppl, trading at a hedge fund can get quite boring. Sure, you can update numbers in the models your analysts create, but analysts are the driving force behind revenue at a most HFs, and those positions usually hire from the sell-side banking or research pools.
Thanks for the link and your personal exp. Very helpful
How to get to HF (Originally Posted: 11/13/2014)
Currently a starting 1st year analyst in M&A in a continental Europe (good bank in my coverage area, CEE, but not well known on a larger scale). Want to know how should I best position myself for a value, l/s HF position a few years down the line. 1. How important is investing on my own account? I do it anyways, but after seeing the M&A hours my market activity has decreased significantly 2. Should I try to lateral to a bigger bank in a few years/now to do M&A? 3. Should I lateral to ER? 4. Should I try to get into HF asap, or do my current role a few years and then try?
Networking anyways, but not too actively yet, as trying to get myself going in the position I am in atm.
Thanks.
bump
Can I transition to a Hedge Fund? (Originally Posted: 05/30/2015)
This is my junior summer and I received an internship under derivative traders.
Can I use this to get a job at a Hedge fund when i graduate or even in Investment banking?
Can someone please give me some input?
You posted pretty early on a Sunday lol but you're still young ...does junior summer mean you're going to be a junior next year or a senior?
I'll be a senior.
Hedge Funds typically seek candidates with experience (and even more typically, at a BB). Depending on where you go to school, transitioning to a hedge fund out of undergrad is not unheard of, though.
What possible jobs could you someone landing after an internship with derivate brokers?
I'm coming from a non target. Wondering if it would be best to find a last minute IB internship.
You're in a fine position because of your age but all you said was "internship under deriv traders" ...that could be anything, at any type of firm but short answer is yes you can still get in anywhere if you put the work in
from not knowing much more, I'm sure it can be done. Work hard with the trading types, build a network with them (they'll know others on the street) and take it from there.
Good Luck
Hot to land a HF job in the US?? (Originally Posted: 07/29/2015)
After reading many forums and blogs I got to the conclusion that I have to land an unpaid internship (given my profile: I studied in Italy). My question is: how do I contact these people? What do I say on the first email?
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