SWE vs IB — Let’s Discuss
So, until recently, I thought the figures thrown around by tech folks on various forums were exaggerated. Last weekend, I met up with two college buddies of mine to catch up, and I was shocked by how well these two had it in tech.
One of them is now a software engineer working at a non FAANG company (Uber, Hulu, Lyft), and his TC with just 4-5 years of experience is north of 450k. He even showed me the offer letter. The guy works 30-40 hours a week (40 when things are “busy”). He says other (more senior) folks on his team make way more.
The other is a product manager at a FAANG company making north of 350k working similar hours.
While I’m incredibly happy for these guys, I can’t help but think that I might be making a mistake pursuing IB as a long-term career, and should instead focus on learning to program and shifting over to tech instead. Would love to hear your thoughts on this. Am I missing something, or is tech the obvious winner here? I understand that this is a small sample size and would appreciate the input of other monkeys working in tech. Thanks.
I mean if you are 1) Good at programming and 2) Enjoy looking at code all day, then its a no brainer. Get to FAANG, job hop to inflate your salary for a few years, then rest and vest. But I think if 1 and 2 were both true, you wouldn't be on this site, right?
Never coded before, unfortunately. Trying to figure out if perhaps I should spend the next 2 years practicing.
Staring at code all day seems similar to starting at Excel/Credit Docs, don’t you think?
It's harder (at that level) and it's usually a niche project, whereas credit docs are a means to solving a higher-level problem. IMO as a CS student, the chance that you break into big tech by practicing after your full-time job really depends on how smart you are (and not the banking style of smart), which I wouldn't know the answer to.
Lol I'm a programmer and even I don't enjoy looking at code on my screen
That is -- clearly -- a myth. Once one takes a management track (usually corresponds to an IC6 level), they never code anymore. It all turns into meetings, presentations, and writing. Yes, you need to still make it to this level (which will require looking at the code), but the quoted generalization isn't very accurate.
SWE at that level isn't something you just jump into, those people are absurdly smart. They're the same types who become quants at mega funds. Not saying you cant make it in, just saying its pretty uncommon.Most SWE positions pay well but a lot lower than what we see on the internet. Much lower than junior IBD pay id say.
A friend of mine is a senior SWE at Raytheon and he clears around 120k ish at around 40hrs a week some months 60hrs if theyre on a sprint. Defense seems to underpay from what hes told me.
Another friend just went to Tesla where hes clearing about $215k but hes gettin his ass handed to him working 70-75hrs/wk. He left a very generous and cushy 25-30hr week eng job that paid $110-115k for the tesla brand name.
Pay and WLB is all over the place because there are tiers of engineers and what they do for the company.
Right, I thought this might be the case. That said, the individual I was referring to majored in Biology and took a coding boot camp to break in. I’m told that so long as you practice “LEET code” to pass the interviews, the job itself isn’t that complicated, and you’re mainly looking up solutions on Stack Overflow. I’ll need to confirm this with others working in the industry, but figured I’d just forward what was communicated to me for now
Yeah man, if its something that interest you, you should at least try. I guess the point im trying to make and what I’ve been told is that anyone can learn how to code, but theres a hard cap to how good youre going to be at it.
Kind of like people who are bad at excel and do this A1+A2+A3…then you have excel wizards who can every question you have and know how to fix every broken model. Rough example but im sure you get the point
Honestly quite obnoxious to assume this is all you need do to secure a $400k salary as a SWE.
can you pm the bootcamp name
Doesn't apply to roles in FAANG (at least, in Google and Meta), as these companies develop all the tools internally, and you cannot look anything up on Stack Overflow.
The statement that the job isn't that complicated is 100% innacurate. Being an IC5 is a much harder (day-to-day) job than being at associate at Credit Suisse (did both).
As for reaching that pay level, it’s mainly a series of job hopping and using multiple offers to negotiate higher pay
I disagree that they're all absurdly smart and exactly the same types that become quants at big shops. There are tens of thousands of SWEs at Google and tens of thousands of SWEs at Facebook, and FAANG collectively has been hiring tens of thousands of new SWEs a year. A couple people from my high school whom I did not consider STEM-oriented now code at Google. They're not all the cream of the crop; only a minority should be considered absurdly smart. The bar to make it into a top quant shop is fairly higher on average--those guys I would deem worthy of the label.
Yeah I get what you're saying, I assumed at OP's friend's comp he was L5+ which I don't believe to be the norm. Could be wrong, only know what I've been told by my friends working in SWE. However, I don't think it's a reach to say that you still have to be smarter than average to secure a seat at the table. Something I've noticed with high tier jobs like this are that people discredit themselves and their peers by saying "yeah you don't have to be a genius to do this" but in reality, context is what matters. Is it actually easy, or are you and your coworkers all smart so you narrow down who's the weakest link?
People on the internet forget that the vast majority of people are not in these careers and that level of comp is considered extreme wealth to many. I think median household income is what like 60-65k? One thing's certain related to the OP, in general, engineering is going to be harder than finance imo.
bruh, you named two companies that aren't big tek. tech compensation is fucking wild and you def don't have to be smart to clear $300k as an SWE. Getting to staff level and above ($700k+ TC) is pretty tough but if you can hack it in IB as someone reasonably intelligent you can def pull $300-400k as an SWE working ~30 hours in tech.
No, you don’t have to be particularly smart to get a 200k+ SWE position at a FAANG or similar out of college. There is a huge demand for SWEs in this country - you have to realize that FAANG alone hires far more SWEs than IB hires analysts in a given year, but there is a still a SWE shortage hence the high comp. It’s not that exclusive or rare, but you have to put in the practice. Mostly just practicing data structures and algorithms interview questions on Leetcode. Read Blind if you’re curious about the process. Do enough of those and you’ll get a job, no different than studying IB interview questions. I’m a math+cs major at a target. Plenty of people I know who aren’t particularly smart but just practiced interviews have SWE offers like you mention. Different skill sets for different people, but as long as you put in the work it’s very achievable.
This post happens every so often, and I always have to comment on as a STEM major that chose the finance route.
People on this website are so delusional and misinformed when it comes to careers in tech and are truly suffering from grass is greener syndrome.
Levels.fyi, is the bible on SWE pay. As you can see, none of these figures are unobtainable as a finance professional in IB/PE/HF and these numbers are stock heavy.
Red flags with the tech industry. You can age out of the industry. Vast majority of SWEs are younger than 29. It is much cheaper to replace you in tech and it's harder to stay on top of the latest tech trends, while your YOE in finance makes you much more valuable. Next, your cash comp never materially changes and most of those high comp numbers you see are equity heavy. Lastly, the vast majority of people who land at FAANG will never progress past L5. 10% of Google engineers advance past L5 (5+ YOE) and comp flattens out here.
Lastly, please get these people's dick out of your mouth. CS and coding is not that difficult. There are FAANG engineers that have no college degree and just did a bootcamp to get where they are. Reading a data structures textbook, reading how to crack the coding interview, and doing 100 medium leetcode questions, isn't much different than reading Rosenbaum and Pearl and the 400 question guide.
Saying that tech is worlds better than finance is like being naive enough to believe that PE is the promised land with more money, carry, less hours, and interesting work than IB. If you truly believe tech is the promise land, I have some bridges in Brooklyn to sell you.
Also just to add to my comment above, just because you may not be good at something doesn't mean it's difficult. It just means that you have an entirely different skillset. If I put a three-hour LBO modeling test, with three tranches of debt, D&A, WC, and CapEx adjustments, including PIK interest, and asked a SWE at FAANG to find the IRR, do you think they would find that easy? No. If I told them to do a three statement model with built-out debt and D&A schedules, with a DCF valuation with both the multiple and perpetuity growth method would they find it easy? No.
I promise that if you practiced coding questions, just like you practiced for technical interviews, you'd find that it's not that difficult.
I agree with this in the sense that both LBO modeling tests and coding interviews are things you have to train for, and are very reasonably passable with training, and are very hard to pass without training. Having said that, I do still think coding interviews require higher base IQ/quantitative aptitude. Like, if you took a liberal-arts major with no foundation in finance, econ, math, or CS, I'd say the chances of him passing a modeling test after 100hrs of prep are much higher than the chances of him passing a hard coding interview with the same length of prep.
Nah, I took both CS101 and Corporate Finance in college. Had to withdraw from CS because it was taking up all of my time every day and I still couldn't keep up. Meanwhile I got the highest grade in the entire class in the Corp Fin final. CS is definitely more difficult, at least for me.
Sorry but coding is more difficult. By every objective metric. This is why studying math and CS is more difficult than studying accounting and finance.
Wholeheartedly agree with everything you said as a someone from a similar background. Do you have a source on the L5 comment? Only 10% over L5 sounds pretty low.
I can't find the exact source on that number, but that what I remember reading, but I included some links that go over the career progression at Google and how difficult it is to get past L5.
https://qr.ae/pv2qBV
https://www.quora.com/I-have-been-at-Google-for-7-years-and-still-an-L5…
Why does being a STEM major give you any credibility. I too am That chose finance, my roommate clears $200K TC 2nd year and he works 30 hours a week. Clear path to $600K+ TC a year in 6-7 years. You are still an undergrad you literally can’t have an opinion as you’ve worked neither job.
Tech is way better than IB. Upside isn’t even that much better in finance. Know many engineers who got paid stock at start up and cleared $10M+ payouts after a couple of years and got acquired.
Why does being a STEM major give you any credibility. I too am That chose finance, my roommate clears $200K TC 2nd year and he works 30 hours a week. Clear path to $600K+ TC a year in 6-7 years. You are still an undergrad you literally can’t have an opinion as you’ve worked neither job.
Tech is way better than IB. Upside isn’t even that much better in finance. Know many engineers who got paid stock at start up and cleared $10M+ payouts after a couple of years and got acquired.
Why does being a STEM major give you any credibility. I too am That chose finance, my roommate clears $200K TC 2nd year and he works 30 hours a week. Clear path to $600K+ TC a year in 6-7 years. You are still an undergrad you literally can’t have an opinion as you’ve worked neither job.
Tech is way better than IB. Upside isn’t even that much better in finance. Know many engineers who got paid stock at start up and cleared $10M+ payouts after a couple of years and got acquired.
My credibility comes from the fact that because I understand the career paths of both industries very well. Your roommate makes 200k? So fucking what lmao. I've turned down 250k EB offers. Does his 200k include equity? If so, he can't spend 200k. If your friend is only working 30 hours a week, he will never progress past the L5 equivalent at any tech firm, because the L6 job requirements is much different than L5, which is why most SWEs get stuck at that level. It's not all about coding. Tech companies have a hire freely, promote sparingly model, and working 30 hours a week will not get you promoted.
And just like you know unicorn stories of people making 10M payouts. There are stories just like that of people in finance who hit it big for a few years at a HF. This has nothing to do about the career risks that I've laid out. Also I'm talking about the middle 95% of the data, not people in the tails. The middle 95% of people in top finance jobs vs. top SWE jobs come out ahead.
You might have a clear path to 600k, but that's where your career ends. Something like 85% of FAANG SWEs don't make it past IC5, which pays around 400k. And don't get me wrong: that's absolutely fine and I myself would be happy with that, but if you want to make more than that, you need to go into an industry with scalable compensation growth like finance/consulting/sales. That's what this guy is trying to say.
Engineering management is a viable way to increase pay beyond that. Yes, SWE pay caps out at $600k but if you move into people management after 10-15 years you will easily make more. Directors at FAANG clear a million and I would argue it's easier to hit director in FAANG than it is to hit any partner track position in PE (if you have the requisite CS background). Compared to PE, you'll have way fewer people gunning for higher roles (rest and vest at L5 is a very common strategy in tech) and so hitting this level if you desire should be completely viable within 10-15 years.
Making VP is a lot harder and involves a lot more politicking so I don't want to use that as a comp, but FAANG VPs can make $1.5-$2.0MM+
CEO of Amazon is also a viable way to increase pay beyond the SWE ceiling. Andy Jassy makes $300 million, and if you become Daddy Bezos you can make billions.
lol not how it works dude, come actually work here and see. first of all you don't just become director after L6 you usually go E6 -> M0 (for Meta because I'm familiar with Meta's process) then you move to M1 which is manager level not director which is D1/D2. also very few people are really management worthy so it's not just "if you move into people management you will easily make more". i've never seen someone go from M2 to D1 they all come from McKinsey or one of the VCs
You do realize that the entry-level associate position in private equity is "partner-track"?
There are quite a few IC6s at Google. Comp is in the $500k-$700k range.
Why does being a STEM major give you any credibility. I too am That chose finance, my roommate clears $200K TC 2nd year and he works 30 hours a week. Clear path to $600K+ TC a year in 6-7 years. You are still an undergrad you literally can’t have an opinion as you’ve worked neither job.
Tech is way better than IB. Upside isn’t even that much better in finance. Know many engineers who got paid stock at start up and cleared $10M+ payouts after a couple of years and got acquired.
Why does being a STEM major give you any credibility. I too am That chose finance, my roommate clears $200K TC 2nd year and he works 30 hours a week. Clear path to $600K+ TC a year in 6-7 years. You are still an undergrad you literally can’t have an opinion as you’ve worked neither job.
Tech is way better than IB. Upside isn’t even that much better in finance. Know many engineers who got paid stock at start up and cleared $10M+ payouts after a couple of years and got acquired.
Why does being a STEM major give you any credibility. I too am That chose finance, my roommate clears $200K TC 2nd year and he works 30 hours a week. Clear path to $600K+ TC a year in 6-7 years. You are still an undergrad you literally can’t have an opinion as you’ve worked neither job.
Tech is way better than IB. Upside isn’t even that much better in finance. Know many engineers who got paid stock at start up and cleared $10M+ payouts after a couple of years and got acquired.
Why does being a STEM major give you any credibility. I too am That chose finance, my roommate clears $200K TC 2nd year and he works 30 hours a week. Clear path to $600K+ TC a year in 6-7 years. You are still an undergrad you literally can’t have an opinion as you’ve worked neither job.
Tech is way better than IB. Upside isn’t even that much better in finance. Know many engineers who got paid stock at start up and cleared $10M+ payouts after a couple of years and got acquired.
Why does being a STEM major give you any credibility. I too am That chose finance, my roommate clears $200K TC 2nd year and he works 30 hours a week. Clear path to $600K+ TC a year in 6-7 years. You are still an undergrad you literally can’t have an opinion as you’ve worked neither job.
Tech is way better than IB. Upside isn’t even that much better in finance. Know many engineers who got paid stock at start up and cleared $10M+ payouts after a couple of years and got acquired.
Why does being a STEM major give you any credibility. I too am That chose finance, my roommate clears $200K TC 2nd year and he works 30 hours a week. Clear path to $600K+ TC a year in 6-7 years. You are still an undergrad you literally can’t have an opinion as you’ve worked neither job.
Tech is way better than IB. Upside isn’t even that much better in finance. Know many engineers who got paid stock at start up and cleared $10M+ payouts after a couple of years and got acquired.
Why does being a STEM major give you any credibility. I too am That chose finance, my roommate clears $200K TC 2nd year and he works 30 hours a week. Clear path to $600K+ TC a year in 6-7 years. You are still an undergrad you literally can’t have an opinion as you’ve worked neither job.
Tech is way better than IB. Upside isn’t even that much better in finance. Know many engineers who got paid stock at start up and cleared $10M+ payouts after a couple of years and got acquired.
Why does being a STEM major give you any credibility. I too am That chose finance, my roommate clears $200K TC 2nd year and he works 30 hours a week. Clear path to $600K+ TC a year in 6-7 years. You are still an undergrad you literally can’t have an opinion as you’ve worked neither job.
Tech is way better than IB. Upside isn’t even that much better in finance. Know many engineers who got paid stock at start up and cleared $10M+ payouts after a couple of years and got acquired.
Why does being a STEM major give you any credibility. I too am That chose finance, my roommate clears $200K TC 2nd year and he works 30 hours a week. Clear path to $600K+ TC a year in 6-7 years. You are still an undergrad you literally can’t have an opinion as you’ve worked neither job.
Tech is way better than IB. Upside isn’t even that much better in finance. Know many engineers who got paid stock at start up and cleared $10M+ payouts after a couple of years and got acquired.
Why does being a STEM major give you any credibility. I too am That chose finance, my roommate clears $200K TC 2nd year and he works 30 hours a week. Clear path to $600K+ TC a year in 6-7 years. You are still an undergrad you literally can’t have an opinion as you’ve worked neither job.
Tech is way better than IB. Upside isn’t even that much better in finance. Know many engineers who got paid stock at start up and cleared $10M+ payouts after a couple of years and got acquired.
Why does being a STEM major give you any credibility. I too am That chose finance, my roommate clears $200K TC 2nd year and he works 30 hours a week. Clear path to $600K+ TC a year in 6-7 years. You are still an undergrad you literally can’t have an opinion as you’ve worked neither job.
Tech is way better than IB. Upside isn’t even that much better in finance. Know many engineers who got paid stock at start up and cleared $10M+ payouts after a couple of years and got acquired.
Why does being a STEM major give you any credibility. I too am That chose finance, my roommate clears $200K TC 2nd year and he works 30 hours a week. Clear path to $600K+ TC a year in 6-7 years. You are still an undergrad you literally can’t have an opinion as you’ve worked neither job.
Tech is way better than IB. Upside isn’t even that much better in finance. Know many engineers who got paid stock at start up and cleared $10M+ payouts after a couple of years and got acquired.
Why does being a STEM major give you any credibility. I too am That chose finance, my roommate clears $200K TC 2nd year and he works 30 hours a week. Clear path to $600K+ TC a year in 6-7 years. You are still an undergrad you literally can’t have an opinion as you’ve worked neither job.
Tech is way better than IB. Upside isn’t even that much better in finance. Know many engineers who got paid stock at start up and cleared $10M+ payouts after a couple of years and got acquired.
Why does being a STEM major give you any credibility. I too am That chose finance, my roommate clears $200K TC 2nd year and he works 30 hours a week. Clear path to $600K+ TC a year in 6-7 years. You are still an undergrad you literally can’t have an opinion as you’ve worked neither job.
Tech is way better than IB. Upside isn’t even that much better in finance. Know many engineers who got paid stock at start up and cleared $10M+ payouts after a couple of years and got acquired.
Why does being a STEM major give you any credibility. I too am That chose finance, my roommate clears $200K TC 2nd year and he works 30 hours a week. Clear path to $600K+ TC a year in 6-7 years. You are still an undergrad you literally can’t have an opinion as you’ve worked neither job.
Tech is way better than IB. Upside isn’t even that much better in finance. Know many engineers who got paid stock at start up and cleared $10M+ payouts after a couple of years and got acquired.
FAANG is paradise
As someone who chose finance over SWE / PM, my reasoning was simple.
I knew I would be compromising on WLB (not particularly TC), but I realized that I wanted to be in an environment where I could maximize my interpersonal skills and build a somewhat diverse skillset. A PM position offers that, to an extent, but the skillset you're developing is more narrow. The only career that represented a better proposition was consulting, but that would require a greater cut in pay than I was willing to make.
What's PM?
product manager, business side who decides what gets built with engineers / design / marketing
As someone who picked PM over finance, I'm not sure I agree that you build a more diverse skillset in finance. Being a PM entailed working with a cross-functional (multi-disciplinary) team - across eng, design, user research, data science, marketing, legal, ops, sales, etc - so naturally you will pick up and learn a wide variety of skills along the way, including interpersonal skills.
Personally, I agree. I've come to learn that I don't care that much about money and that work-life balance is far more important to me. Last year, I probably made close to four times the amount your friends made and am on track to make exponentially more in the coming years, but I don't feel any happier. That being said, some people really do appreciate the money, and I don't blame them. I myself grew up in a very privileged environment, so perhaps I just don't see the value in excessive wealth creation. That's just me. I have a coworker whose dad worked in a steel plant his entire life — I can assure you his views on money and work are very different from mine.
It really comes down to your own set of preferences. I think it's great that tech is now becoming an option for young people. If you're someone who values mental health and a healthy attitude towards work, you can go into tech now without sacrificing a comfortable lifestyle. If you want to chase after houses in the Hamptons, be able to set up trusts for your children, and give your parents a life they never had, finance is still open for business. It doesn't have to be one vs. the other.
How much longer do you plan to stay in the industry?
Worked in tech, now doing quant trading. Had multiple FAANG offers but turned them down for my current position. I think people forget how abysmal career progression is in tech, like you get to L6 and you sit there for 20 years until you retire. Plus I didn't want to make buttons for the rest of my life so I went with quant lol
Can you share your story about how you got into quant trading? I’m looking to also get into that too.
Make buttons? Are you talking about website buttons?
Yes.
These are completely different career paths and the only shared aspect is they're prestigious and well-paying. SWE you have to be happy staring at code all day with limited team interaction. It's also hard to learn tech, your typical finance major can't just turn around and go into SWE their sophomore year. IB/finance you are an Excel monkey for a few years, but longer-term it's much more relationship and soft skill based.
No one should be making career decisions based on pay alone, especially when both have the potential for mid 6 figures.
Sorry, but isn't the FIRE movement full of SWEs who hate their careers and want to escape?
I think most people hate working. But yes, FIRE movement does have a lot of software engineers.
Coding at the FAANG level is absolutely not as hard as people make it out to be and if your goal is to make money easily, absolutely do tech.
Can you somehow back it up?
Did STEM at an Ivy before moving onto the IB -> PE route. People overestimate how much SWEs make because they themselves exaggerate numbers (helps with negotiation). I’ve had friends include one time non-recurring shit like signing bonuses and relocation bonuses as well as stock appreciation into their total compensation. As in they predict Alphabet will go up 20% next year and include this increase in their compensation. This is the norm…
While these firms pay a lot for the hours worked, you won’t become wealthy unless you add value. It’s the same as in finance. You won’t coast to IB MD or PE partner and you similarly will absolutely get stuck making $500k tops if you don’t grind as a SWE. There’s a reason so many SWEs from the top firms jump to start-ups or to product management, which pays less than finance from what I’ve seen from my business school peers.
Final remark, you’re splitting between hairs. SWEs make a ton, but so do financiers.
What is the WFH policy like in tech?
yeah I think the advice is also different depending on what school you go to. if you go to a super non-target and do IB for no good reason, that's kind of dumb when you can work towards getting into tech. but if you're at an ivy and don't really know what you're doing and you really want money, going into IB is a no-brainer
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/other/tech-as-an-alternative-to-f…
I totally disagree with people that said SWE is harder than IB. I have friends who never graduated college and can't do geometry or calculus, still was able to get a job at Tik Tok making ~$280k with 2 years of experience. The RSU is worth over ~$1MM now. And, on track to make $350k+ after 2 years there with equity refresh.
I would strongly advise your friend to give a long, hard think as to the likelihood of ever seeing a liquidity event on those RSUs...
Tik Tok apparently have a employee buyback program at $200Bn and that would still put the RSU at little over $500k.
Not saying its BS, but I highly doubt it lol. How can someone who doesn't know how to do basic math get a SDE job at a place like that? Coding is a lot harder...
Geometry and Calculus isn't basic math. He does work hard to enhance his skills, but I just want to point out another data point that it's not as hard as people think. Also, IB tends to attract some of the smartest people and I still agree. I'm sure most guys can do coding if he/she choose to and enjoy it. I also thought it was bs when he told me the offer, but then I saw it and it was crazy. No need for me to talk down on IB because I'm in it.
SDE =/= quant. A CS program does not have much math at all.
Have you ever heard about selection bias? Or about a sample of one?
Man just shut your fucking mouth PLEASE
lol
Dude, this question has been answered a million times before. If you want work-life balance, do tech. If you want money, do finance. It's really not that complicated.
Literally missing the point of the thread, which is whether it is possible to do tech and still make the same amount of money. For smart STEM students at targets I think it is obvious - top performers are pulling $400k+ within a few years of graduation while working 9am-5/6pm.
Have a friend at a large startup with 3.5 years of work experience that gets paid $450K cash + $200k stock annually.
So, the answer is that you can absolutely make as much money in tech as you can in finance (if you're smart)
Name this "startup."
Well, you should really be doing the things that you enjoy. But sure, if you aren’t particularly passionate about anything, this is the right answer.
Also gotta remember to make the big bucks it has to be something you at least tolerate. I did some basic coding in highschool and college and it was total ass. Your whole program wont work if a single parenthesis is off. Excel can be a pain to fix if the model is messed up but at leas the cells flow step-by-step into each other and is less complicated overall.
I think it's very shortsighted to look at jr level comp in finance or tech and base a whole career decision off that. You'll be 35 and having a career crisis if you choose tech for the "ez money" and WLB just to find out you don't care about it. It seems to be the same with the people who choose finance and the IB->PE track without a thought if that's what they really want to do- they find out they don't care for finance and call the system bullshit.
If you want money and to get ahead in life, you gotta work hard and smart.
I am really confused why people think the comp ceiling in finance is higher? The average SWE makes more than average Finance path (IB->PE-> burn out Corp Finance).
Let's assume 3k employees at top 50 tech companies, (which is really conservative bc there are wayyyyyyyy more than 50 established tech companies that pay fat $ for sr engineers, albeit these r smaller companies but a large number of companies overall nonetheless). So 150k employees * 10% = 15k. The 10% cut for senior emp, when likely very conservative bc there's a lot more senior emps than that.
You're really telling me there's more than 15k seats in U.S. for VP/MDs at top banks, Partner at PE, etc? And oh by the way you're working long ass hours and are at the hands of market activity. Tech>finance and its not even close. Coming from someone who wishes they could have broken into swe.
there are way fewer people in finance than tech plus career progression is very clear in finance. i worked in tech before accepting an offer at citadel/jane street/HRT because the career ceiling in software engineering is pretty well known, everyone knows that 90% of engineers don't make it past IC5/6. personally, quant > finance >>> tech
why are we acting like the finance ceiling is higher on average? Sure the outliers in finance outcomp the average SWE. But the average SWE makes so much more than the average finance person.
MDs and Partners at McKinsey or Morgan Stanley make millions
Agreed. Not sure what non sense other people here are talking.
Most bankers don't work till MD in the 50s and retire. Many left for corp dev at certain stage of their career once they are in a down cycle or failed to generate revenue.
Corp dev jobs don't make 400k+ easily and it is not an easy life vs SWE.
Top 10% SWE may make it till retirement at FAANG. Top 10% bankers is just an average kid at a BB and most bankers don't make it to MD or MF partners.
This thread gets posted regularly but will chime in as a CS major at a target and actually had a SWE job offer in college on top of IB offer.
First, the idea of SWE being difficult is honestly overblown on this site. Coding isn’t that hard, I had plenty of friends who sucked at CS in school but got FAANG jobs and seems to be doing fine.
The main issue is comp ceiling. You cap out around ~$500k in SWE, maybe a bit more at outlier companies but you’re not breaking $1M anywhere without getting on management track (which is difficult). That’s a whole lot easier to hit in IB/PE.
If you want to make $400k forever and work 20 hours a week, SWE is great. If you would rather work harder and make more, finance is the parh
OK....but how many business majors at Podunk university are going to be making more than 400k? Meanwhile, the average CS major at a community college will eventually make over 6 figures in a year or two if they have a decent work ethic. I started off at an entry level finance job and was making 19 bucks an hour and ZERO benefits. This website only thinks about IB/PE/HF career paths, but there are so many business students that will never be able to break in to high finance.
Right, because there are totally so many seats where you can make ~$1mm regularly in finance…
7 figure comp in finance is reserved for MDs/Partners in IB/PE… and both types of positions are extremely difficult to attain and require you sacrifice your whole life grinding to get there and a ton of luck. Your head is constantly on the chopping block as you’re under constant pressure to generate revenue (or returns).
I’ll take $500k comp to work 20 hours a week remote ANYDAY, where I can spit out the same 1337 code over a 5% shot at possibly earning 7 figure comp in a high pressure high risk job where you’re at the whim or clients/economy/sector performance and probably going to die early from overwork.
SWE is front office for tech. You’re coming up with and developing novel functionalities not “spitting the same 1337 code”. That would be back office for tech, no different than how back office for finance is largely churning the same reports every month/quarter.
Software engineers at Jane Street make 400k starting working 40 hrs a week... and goes up to a million by around age 30 lol. Also heard Citadel/HRT pay even more...
https://www.teamblind.com/post/Is-the-new-grad-SWE-comp-at-Jane-Street-…
https://www.levels.fyi/company/Jane-Street/salaries/Software-Engineer/
SWE = girls see you as a wallet
Finance = girls see you at the top of the social and financial hierarchy
why is this not the end all be all rationale??
Actually SWE = girls don't see you as a viable dating option. The average person still has a pretty low opinion of software engineers and often conflate us with IT support people making 40k a year. Unless you're a staff software engineer at Google or something, you definitely don't have any sort of social prestige working as a SWE, even if you are bringing in well over 6 figs a year.
username checks out
So compensation-wise, I think you can make tons of money in either finance or tech. Both give you opportunities to earn equity (which is how you get really wealthy, not through regular payroll income). In terms of whether or not you should shift, it depends - how much are you earning now? What might you be earning in the future - in finance/tech (only you will be able to judge this, be honest about how good you are/can get at either)? What is the opportunity cost of spending time studying coding/shifting? Is WLB very important to you or mainly just money? Do you have a lot more motivation/interest doing one than the other? Depending on how you answer those Qs - may or may not make sense to switch.
Definitely wouldn't say it's never the right thing to do, but wouldn't say all folks in finance should move over either. As with many things in life, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
I was a CS / Econ major at a non-target and I have a couple points. First of all, your buddies are inflating their numbers for all the points people below have made (illiquid equity, including relocation/sign on bonuses etc.). Secondly I don't think anyone has it quite right that coding/Cs (split hairs all you want here) is "easy" or "hard" - CS is very unlike "regular" math and whether it is easy or hard for you typically has nothing to do with your quantitative skills. CS is built on the philosophy of logic and doesn't really have a lot of good benchmarks. So you really just have to try to see if you're good at it. I would also point out that it is possible for people to get jobs at FAANG companies not from targets. It is because coding is a provable skill. I had the choice between IB and a big tech firm and chose IB because I knew that this tech place is hiring literally thousands of kids and if you actually want to succeed you aren't working 20hrs a week you have to train in your own time. Also positions within software companies are highly unstable for junior SWE and you risk putting yourself into such a niche role that you don't have marketable skills when you want to move. Anyway that's my two cents
Here’s a thread that I posted a couple days ago. Similar situation tech vs. finance. I was in a similar position, debating between tech and finance, and some of the replies helped me think through it.
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/hedge-fund/financetech-comp-equal…
- I enjoy more discussing about economics, politics or business and dealing with people which are into more conservative jobs than discussing what Silicon Valley does
- I find more connection with people who are in conservative industries than in tech therefore I wouldn't go into it just because the money or the hours are better, instead I would gladly sacrifice some of those to stay in an industry with people with whom I share some interests and have things in common.
- I don't want to contribute into creating a better "virtual" world to disconnect people even more people from the outside world with each new update, instead I would be more interested into working on things which are tangible (engineer, law, medicine, etc.) and may contribute to infrastructure or helping someone which needs my help.
- You will inevitably resemble the people with whom you work down the road. I'd say than in tech people are on average more introverts, awkward or isolated than in finance where they need to be more charismatic and presentable considering it's a client-facing industry. So consider which traits and soft skills you want to cultivate.
But that's just my 0.02.
Yes Tech has better work-life balance and really strong pay, but the one thing is that monetary gains do not have the same scalability than in finance.
If you enjoy staring at a code editor and want WLB, do SWE. If you enjoy staring at a spreadsheet with negative WLB, do IB.
AMZN is a key player in driving up wages. In their recent loss, they did observe that operating expenses have gone up dramatically. This may impact how much higher they are willing to go to retain talent. Same with NTFLX. Also, when growth plateaus at FAANGM, projects and resource needs get scaled back. In comparison, IB is a more mature industry.
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Congrats. What company do you work at?
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Also depends on where you want to be located. The city I want to be located in long-term has no FAANG/Big Tech presence but tons of IB firms.
I have family and close friends who work in tech. You'd be surprised that there are actually a significant number of people in tech who are LARPing as SWEs and actually have no idea what they are doing
(obviously a parody, but more accurate than you think)Obviously, getting in at FAANG company as a SWE is moderately challenging, but once you are in, it can be easy to hide.
Not so with IB. In IB, if you don't produce, you will eventually find yourself out of a job.
It's not just about the hours and pay. Cultural issues are important to me.
If you are smart enough to learn algorithm math and learn multiple languages, then sure.
My brother is a FAANG SDE making crazy money at age 25. Went to Ivy League Engineering, won international physics competition, finished Calc AB/BC at age 16, etc. If you are confident enough that you can go against kids like that this late, then why not? Some people are in the wrong fields.
But if you attended BBA, you are way behind in math. All we do is simple calculation + - × ÷. No calculus or proof behind.
Go to YouTube, watch MIT or Harvard CS classes in Algorithm. It will blow your mind.
I work in tech as a PM for a startup
Coding skills are a depreciating asset while experience/connections in IB have compounding potential. Plus management will always be thinking about how they can do your job as cheaply as possible.
Corp finance -> SWE
The fact that this is even a discussion makes me regret not having pursued a Bachelors in Computer Science
Nah. A CS degree is one of the most useless degrees you can get given how easy it is to learn CS online. Check that one comment in the "SWE Bootcamps?" thread, it's pretty accurate coming from someone who works in tech now.
I feel that Software Engineering is often romanticized in today's modern times.
At the end of the day, everyone has their own reasoning or personal judgment as to why tech or finance. I feel IB/Finance provides a better leverage opportunity to learn how to do business. SWE is more or less like a trade skill - similar to that of a blue collar type work.
Since I started reading more finance and accounting books, my view has changed over the years (originally engineering). The discussions I have with divisions on budget and finance makes more sense now due to the impact it has from the top down in the organization. I also know that there are more utility in the skillset that translates accounting/finance into Product/Project Management roles. I work closely with the VP of Program Management and he is encouraging me to pursue a CAPM cert. There's a huge deficit of qualified PMs in all industries.
Tech requires you to learn programming skills. If you are mid-way through your IB career, tech may not be the best place because will most likely start as an entry level SWE. IB, especially from a BB or EB, can have many great exit opportunities, so you may want to take a stab a PE or HF if you are mostly concerned about hours. Also, IB hours get better as you move up. If you really enjoy coding, though, then tech may be a good place to be. You can also have a non-programming role as well in a tech company, such as corporate development.
I have to disagree with most people when they say SWE and FAANGs are geniuses. This is definitely not true. I went to school with a ton of them. They're all smart, but nothing exceptional. I have no doubt that the standard banker is smart enough to become a SWE, as long as they receive the necessary training. Getting the right training plus spending hours on Leetcode will get you close.
One thing people forget to mention is how boring your job could be as a SWE at a FAANG. Not saying this is true for everyone, as I'm sure some people work on very interesting projects. But, at the junior level, you're just a cog working on minute details for a larger project. Compare this with banking/PE where you're only ever working on transformational corporate work with the C-Suite. Of course, banking/PE is a slog, but if you step back and think about it, it's really interesting work.
I think this changes if a SWE works for a startup/pre-Series C. That's when they get way more responsibility. The best programmers do not stay at FAANGs. They jump around from startup to startup collecting their ISOs.
come on son
Do you really think Suzy, the english lit graduate from Oxford, now working for GS has the quantitative IQ to do ML engineering at google?
Not that Zhang the cambridge CS graduate who does that ML engineering has anywhere near the EQ to manage the GS IBD job Suzy has. But saying one stream would find it "easy" to do the other is frankly silly and is why so many tech people shit on this website.
I disagree. I think Suzy the Oxford lit graduate has the mental capacity to do ML engineering if it's what she had studied. That may not be true, after all not everyone has the mind for quantitative work, but what I'm saying is that these are all smart people and can generally be interchanged given a change in what they had studied/passion. I also never said it was "easy" to just take one and replace the other as is.
Everyone, but me, in my family is a SWE and I have a ton of FAANG friends; like I said, they're all smart people, but none are geniuses. There are far more SWE jobs than finance roles though. And from what I've seen, there is a very clear pathway to breaking into a FAANG. There is a clear pathway to breaking into banking as well, but given how much smaller the class size is, I do think it's tougher to do.
I’m just trying to figure out why people are doing an Apple to Oranges comparison. Since Banking is technically a Sales position, wouldn’t it make more sense to compare it to Tech Sales not SWE??
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