That's it.

I lost.


After only God knows how much time, effort, and money spent preparing for SA 2024 recruiting, I am now on the wrong side of recruiting season and got ONE first-round interview to show for it (that I ended up not moving on for, fuck me I guess). I truly don't know what else I could've done, and maybe that's what gives me the closure to write this post so freely. I'll give a quick timeline of how I got here (which isn't very far from where I started):


Fall 2021

  • Leave rural as-fuck hometown to go the only state school (non-target) within 300 miles
  • Admitted straight into the b-school (but it's not on the east or west coast so it doesn't matter, right?)
  • Planned on studying finance, which for now, I had no idea what that meant
  • Got involved with three clubs to learn more about the professional business world
  • 4.0 for the semester

Spring 2022

  • Getting slightly-more familiar with what finance is through these clubs
  • A big suggestion by my university career center is to find mentors, so I somehow get a banker to respond to my message (I only messaged him because it said "finance" under his profile, I had no idea what banking was). Tells me to meet him downtown for coffee on a Tuesday morning, so I skip class to ride the subway from campus to downtown to meet him. I end up getting stood up in the coffee shop; sat there for 75mins like a fucking chump
  • Get tricked into a Northwestern Mutual-esque siren song internship that I made plans for the summer (housing, no other job searching, etc.) only to get it nabbed, rescinded, whatever you wanna call it, two weeks before the start date; left me scrambling for a job, ended up going back home and working labor for the entire summer
  • Have an Earth-shattering, devastating death in the family right before finals
  • End Freshman year with a 3.96 cumulative GPA

Fall 2022

  • Joined my university's closest semblance of an investment banking club, immediately fell in love with the field
  • Purchased $700 online IB prep-course (guess which one)
  • Learn everything from EBITDA to hand-spreading comps on my own ON TOP OF school, clubs, and trying to be social. I've lost ~20lbs because I haven't been able to go to the fucking gym in 8mo
  • End semester with a 3.94 cumulative GPA

Spring 2023

  • Doing everything I can to get bankers on the phone and get my name out there
  • Applying to every fucking internship for every fucking firm under the sun
  • Land corp. fin internship for summer 2023 at a local construction company near campus
  • Take a self-expensed spring break trip to New York and have 12 coffee chats with bankers IN-PERSON (I'm sure that's not a big deal for spoon-fed kids on the east. Actually, a fun little aside - I met an Ivy kid waiting in the lobby for a coffee chat at the same bank I was at, so I asked him who is he waiting for, etc. and the kid didn't have a fucking clue, "I think he's (the guy he was waiting for) in the tech group?" "I thought you were the guy I was meeting with for a second, IDK what he looks like." "Oh yeah I'm on spring break too, me and my friends were just in Punta Cana and instead of going o Tampa for the rest of the week I decided this would be better.")
  • First-round interview with a super small, unrelated firm from back on campus; purely behavioral. Get told by the interviewer how prepared I was, get an email the next week saying I wasn't selected to move on

And so, as of 9:45am on 03/24/2023, I have no interviews, no prospects, nobody responding to emails, and no will to go on. I've taken every fucking Harvard-Crimson dildo and Yale-Blue buttplug balls-deep and said "deeper please" to every banker I've met with just to try and get a glance my way. I've let people belittle my school, my background, and my hometown because they operate as if their lives are worth more than mine purely because they were born out east and go to Princeton. I've eaten shit my entire life with a smile on my face because the only reason I'm even here is because my motor has never quit; for whatever reason my path has never been easy. So finally, after all is said and done, I type before you today dejected and drained. 


Let me make three things absolutely clear.

1) Ivy students, I do not deliberately hate you or have such a huge amount of envy toward you; I know this entire rant has been sneaking jabs and anger (or insecurity if you want to call it that) directed at you but it's not your fault that you were born into your situation and played your dealt hand right, as it's not my fault mine was the other way. You clearly deserve it, and so do I, but life isn't fair and that's not your fault.

2) There are going to be a ton of speculative assumptions made in the comments about why I haven't been successful (or maybe this post flops and nobody gives a shit, that's what I'm used to anyways), and I don't care. Nobody's perfect, and I know this post is going to make it hard for me to support why I should be successful (self-pity, angry, personality, etc.), but here's the honest truth: I have put an unbelievable amount of preparation as a person, as a candidate, and as a student just to get here; I am a blue-collar kid that is eager to learn and is humble in theory. Maybe I come off as arrogant, desperate, etc. sometimes but for the most part I would like to think I am somebody you can talk to and see yourself working 90hrs with (and I am ESPECIALLY conscious of this when I network). I am not a transactional person and I give people the time of day because I know what it's like to not be given the time of day.

3) I need guidance. I have so much pent-up anger and a chip on my shoulder the size of Mount Everest because of this recruiting season and I don't know where to direct it anymore. I am a very emotional person, and it took me years of my adolescence to learn how to direct my strong emotions into productive things, but I frankly can't function with how angry I am at the world right now. Maybe it'd be better if there was a certain thing I could pin my misfortunes and unsuccessful efforts on but there isn't and that's what's tearing me apart. If even one person out there can give me some help on what to even do from here this post will have been worth it.



This entire process has left me questioning whether I should even pursue banking anymore, but the truth is I don't care. I'm sure I'll end up at some regional shit-shop and either give up or go for it; with how I'm feeling after this season, I'm guessing the former. I hate the entire made-up fairy dust game that every candidate has to play to get into this exclusive club known as IB, but maybe that's why I lost the game.


 

Relax dude, it’s not over until it’s over. I recruited until October of my junior year to get one offer for an extremely small boutique. A year later, I lateraled to a MM bank (JEF, HL, Baird). I was terrible at networking and I’ll be the first to admit I screwed up my own recruitment cycle, you just need to keep trying and adjust your scope. Are you only targeting BBs & EBs? If so, you need to get real and size up what positions you are most competitive for. Play the long game dude

 
Most Helpful

First off, it ain’t over until it’s over, and your title to your post shows that you haven’t internalized that. If my math serves me, you can graduate in May 2025, some 2 years and 2 months from now. There are no-name boutiques with off-cycle hiring who will be working during that whole time. That’s an in.

I went to a non-target and I can’t tell you how many people there were with 32+ ACT or equivalent who weren’t able to get a job in IB, much less one that was perfectly on-cycle about everything. Even the most talented non-targets don’t have this luxury, and you don’t either. Evercore is not coming on a silver platter.

The whole industry is reeling from the implosion of SVB and CS, who were both big names in IB. Deal flow for many has slowed down, and people are concerned about keeping their jobs, much less bringing others on the desk. Now is not the best time. But it is the time you’ve been dealt, so you have to play the hand you’ve got.

If you applied to more than say 50 spots with live positions and only got 1 first round, there’s likely something critically wrong with the approach (emails, resume, cover letters if you wrote them). You need to either find that critical flaw or find an honest person who loves you who will point it out to you. If you’ve not applied to that many positions, your approach may be fine, but you’re not working enoughDon’t just shoot for the stars. Cover the waterfront. The local M&A advisor who sells the local dermatologist may not seem like the best option right now, but you need to find your option. You can parlay into something better later, but you need to be doing your best now. Bring on your A-game, work the emails, work the phones, and stay encouraged. As long as you’re as angry as you were when you wrote this post, don’t bother talking to anyone on an interview or over the phone. They’ll smell it miles away and it won’t work. Rest up, get yourself in a better spot. Do some honest-to-goodness diagnostics to figure out if your resume or approach need work. Then get back out there and knock ‘em dead. The markets are roiled and you might not get what you want right away, but talk to every banker you can and use your next two years wisely.

 

This. OP, anonymize your resume and cold email and post them here. State school with a 3.94 GPA should be pretty easy recruiting for you, something is wrong.

Second, the recruiting season is young. Some BBs will recruit into the fall. You sound incredibly bitter - look, I get it, this is hard work and it sucks, but you just have to get back out there. You do need to look at your approach as you are either not sending enough emails (50 positions is nothing - and resume dropping is a black hole) or your emails/resume/calls suck.

Again, priorities here. There is ZERO reason for you to learn to hand-spread comps. They will never ask that in interviews. Same with paying for expensive NY trips, it's not necessary if money is tight in a world where recruiting is wholly virtual now. Also, forget about networking with Ivy alums, they have too many of their own reaching out - yo should be talking to every state school alum out there (there are thousands).

Your post almost makes me think you're going for PJT RSSG and no one else, because landing BB/EB/MM interviews is just not as hard as you're making it. In short, prioritize your time and outreach better.

 

Resume

Cold Email:

Hello Mr. / Ms. Monkey,

My name is Anonymous and I’m a sophomore at the Upper-half Big Ten School. I’ve been relentlessly preparing for and recruiting for 2024 Summer Analyst opportunities and came across your profile on LinkedIn. I’m very interested in the xxx (Group/Product that Mr. / Ms. Monkey works in), especially in how xxx (why that group is interesting) – and you certainly xxx (how Mr. / Ms. Monkey's background aligns with what is interesting about that group). I’d sincerely appreciate the opportunity to have a discussion about your extensive career and most recent position with Firm.

Second paragraph I usually do 2-3 lines about their background and give 1-2 reasons I have a specific question based on that. Here's one example:

You have had an extensive and interesting path that has led you to Firm; from unique location/bank/school to next unique location/bank/school, I’d love to learn some of the business acumen and expertise that you’ve accumulated across the many firms and situations that you’ve been a part of. Last sentence is usually just a crap-shoot of how I try to make common ground with them, could be anything from their major in college to something in their LinkedIn bio.

I’m available for a phone call:

  • Mondays & Wednesdays after 5:00pm EST
  • Tuesdays & Thursdays before 2:00pm EST and after 5:00pm EST
  • Anytime on Fridays

If nothing else, I’d like to just talk about your career, everyone’s story is different and you certainly have a unique one.

Thank you,

Anonymous

 

I mean this in the kindest way possible, but I think you need a reality check for how much talent is around you and how competitive these EB/BB jobs really are. Yes, there are tons of privileged prep school Ivy League kids with connections who get these jobs, but there are also many low income/middle class kids who grinded since high school to get into Ivy Leagues or other target schools. Or state school kids that are absolutely crushing it.

Also, in recruiting barely anyone cares if your GPA is a 4.0 or a 3.8 and I feel like this attitude that because you have a 4.0, you should be getting an offer is disconnected from how recruiting actually works. As is being upset that you paid money to fly to NYC when you really didn’t need to do that. Or talking about how you’ve done everything possible when I didn’t read a single thing that would make you stand out from your peers. I get it - you have fewer resources. But I’ve reviewed hundreds of resumes and there are tons of candidates who go to no-name schools with awesome leadership/projects, finance competitions they won, better internships, remote internships during the school year, good story around a specific vertical etc. A good GPA and being in clubs isn’t going to get you an interview because almost every candidate has that. You say that “you deserve this” but really think why you’re better than the 99% of applicants going to be rejected for each job? They work super hard too, they’re smart too, they’re likable too.

Your dreams aren’t dead as there’s still a lot of recruiting going on, but I think you have to let go of this attitude of entitlement and this rage because the more emotional you get, the worse this will go. If it helps, I went to a target school and got ghosted all the time - you just can’t take it personally.

 

I've noticed in my work that there seems to be a real chip on the shoulder of guys who feel that they "grew up worse off" than other people they work with. Some of the hardest working people I have ever met come from extremely wealthy families and were taught the value of hard work at a young age and continue to grind in their careers even though they don't need to.

On the flip side, I have encountered a lot of people who have overcome tough odds and "made it" who feel that they are better than other people around them because they feel they "earned it" more than other people and have earned the ability to treat the "East Coasters" like crap. The mindset that because you grew up in the midwest and got a 4.0 makes you better than someone who grew up on the East/West coast is no more ridiculous than saying someone who grew up on the coast is better than someone from the Midwest.

 

The fuck bro first rounds for most shops are just rolling out. What did you expect?? To get first rounds at top shops just bc you put the work in? I can guarantee you even target kids miss out on the opportunity to interview with top shops from time to time.

Also everything you stated that you have been doing… literally every kid is and the rlly smart kids are going much more beyond.

 

Nobody owes you anything. It’s honestly shocking to see how some people expect jobs that are high paying, interesting, outstanding long term career prospects to land in their lap. You got strong grades at a non target. So what? Hustle - transfer to a better school, work part time every semester in internships that will advance your long term career goals, read every finance / investing book out there, show excellence outside of academics (sports or volunteer opps), get leadership positions in school clubs, etc. I repeat - nobody owes you anything.

 
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OP I feel for you bro. Go to a target school (came from a state ranked 46-50th in education with 0 finance connections). Worked an unpaid boutique M&A internship (lost money from rent by staying at a nearby university) to get experience on my resume. Grinded and got F500 corporate strategy/development for soph summer. 
 

Ghosted by all boutiques, seen mediocre kids with NYC connections get hooked up, and now I pray my networking pays off for BBs. I promise you with your drive and work ethic these privileged kids will flame out and you will be able to get your way to the top, and never rule out a business school after 4 years if banking somehow doesn’t come to fruition. 
 

My advice is go downmarket and hammer the middle market firms. Once you’re in the club, you will be able to move around and the only time your school will hurt you is maybe on-cycle PE recruiting if that’s ever what you want to do. Cheers man.

 

I see a lot of my old perspectives coming through in your post and there are a few things I'd tell myself, with the benefit of hindsight, that would have improved my overall attitude/well being when I was a young professional.

First, you can't dwell on what others are doing and you can't harbor resentment for "elites" (used colloquially to capture target kids, nepo kids, etc.) to the point that drastically effects your mindset.  I'm big on self-motivation and have found a lot of success harnessing that chip on my shoulder, but it is a very fine line between being productive and being destructive.  People love to say that comparison is the thief of joy, but it's actually "upward-comparison" that is the thief.  If you can't get away from that, at least compare yourself to your peers that don't have their shit together and have no idea what they want to do with their life.

The second thing is thinking it's over before you even started.  I commented in another thread recently about how I was so much further behind you when I graduated and it took me a few years to really find my footing.  I didn't even learn about banking/PE/high finance until after college and only then did it sink in just how impossible that path would be for me, given my background.  I dwelled on that, bitched about it not being fair, whined that my blue-collar sheet-metal working dad and school teacher mother should have had the foresight to groom me for something I didn't know I wanted until I was 23, and generally threw myself an all-time pity party.  Predictably, it changed absolutely nothing about the situation other than fucking up my own attitude.

Regardless of what happens with your internships, I think you need to take your foot off the gas a bit.  You can't burnout before you even start.  Careers are 40+ years long and, despite the (seemingly waning) 2+2+2 trajectory, your first job will not define you.  I was forced to take what I could get at the start, do a damn good job, and parlay that into the next opportunity, then the next, etc.  I'm not even suggesting you need to settle at this point but you have to understand that there is a very real opportunity to break into this industry (IB/PE in my case) down the line.

I think there are other points to make but I'm fading.  kellycriterion and monkiseemonkido 's responses are both excellent and I fully echo what they're saying.

 

Also, you aren’t working full-time or part-time and you don’t have a spring internship. Your priorities are simply recruiting and school it seems. So there’s no reason to neglect self-care to the point that you’re losing 20 lbs, that’s not healthy and will overall hurt your wellbeing more than the extra hour “grinding” will help

 

You learned not only great life lessons but also two important buy-side lessons (if you ever thought about doing that after IB):

1) Don't put all your eggs in one basket 

2) Stay optimistic, but never forget risk.

So you've put all your energy and focus in one basket (IB) expecting everything to go as planned - but it didn't. Now, I think you're smart enough to understand that IB it's a cyclical business, and considering the current circumstances: (i) Economic and banking turmoil, (ii) IB lay-offs, (iii) CS IBD laterals, (and bonus: (iv) Ivy kids competing for the same spots as you), you're at a huge disadvantage.

Instead of asking for guidance on what next steps you should take, I'll do the contrary, I'll take some steps back, look at my current career plan, and assess how realistic my plans and assumptions were and what options are more suitable considering my background and my current circumstances.

 

Put the same effort you put into banking recruiting into summer internships for corporate finance rotational programs or something else that has a similar skillset to banking but is slightly less competitive.

Ideally find a program with the opportunity for a corporate development rotation or a large corporate development team.

Put the same effort once you start into networking with the corporate development team.

From there, it's a pretty easy lateral to banking.

Your post reads like a high school kid at a school no one has heard of complaining that NBA scouts don't come to his games. They may not, but so what? There are still plenty of opportunities to get recruited down the line.  

 

Got my 2023 SA in like October last year. I didn't think banking was in the cards for me and had other offers, but just kept plugging away at apps and networking. My offer came from a bank I didn't network at, and I thought had finished recruiting. My first round interviewer even asked me how I applied because he thought they finished too. It's a numbers game, keep your head up.

 

The fact that you are still at your non-target state school just discredits all the hard work you put in. School status is the easiest way for people to filter you out. You are not the most hard working non-target kid, because the ones who are end up transferring to a target. I went to a non-target and recruited with 8-10 other non-targets. Only ones remotely successful ones were guys who transferred to T20s (myself included)

 

I'm not burdening my family with another year (at least) of school at a more expensive university just to be too late in recruiting. I'm also near no targets at all.

 

I mean Im not telling you to do that rn im saying u shoulda done tht cuz thts the single most important thing you can do. You didnt do that lol. Idk about your specific situation but financial aid and merit scholarships are much more abundant at T20s. I bet you there were a few schools that would have able to transfer/afford in the T20s.

Also, the entire financial sector is under terror lol have some perspective

 

I think you need to first take a step back and gain some perspective. Most of WSO's undergraduates are likely already high achieving students from target and semi-target schools, so getting an SA position seems like a given on this forum. Breaking into a top BB/MM/EB is hard. You're competing for one of the most coveted six-figure jobs that you can achieve out of undergraduate studies, and merely being well-prepared technically and doing the requisite of networking does not entitle you to recruiting success. Each year, hundreds of thousands of students around the world compete for the handful of BB/EB/top MM seats out there, and most people do not manage to break into IB, many who work just as hard if not harder than you.

Also, it sounds like you haven't spread your recruiting universe enough. If you're truly passionate about the space and interested in going into IB, you need to be applying for regional MMs and boutiques. I can guarantee you that with enough preparation, you can get into IB, maybe just not the top of IB directly out of undergraduate. I always like comparing it to college adminitions: good grades could guarantee you getting into college, but good academics does not entitle you to an Ivy League or elite university.

 

Agree with this post. I think people on this forum and even in IB forget at the end of the day how selective the IB world is because of being in a bubble. Just providing some anecdotal evidence, but most of my co-workers went to top targets and were accomplished not just academically (had 3.8+, many did research as well), but also with extracurriculars (several former student gov presidents or class presidents, head of undergrad investment organization, varsity athletes, young trustee, etc) and connections (parents on Wall Street or are wealthy, went to Choate/Deerfield), which in a fundamentally relationship-oriented industry like IB is definitely valid and relevant to recruitment considerations. Most of the non-targets within my group also had exceptional involvement and achievements on campus apart from academics.


 

 

Relax man, recruiting for IB analyst roles, even during the peak COVID bull market, is, has always been, and will always be a crapshoot. You're just competing with hundreds of Ivy League target school kids with access to way better mentorship, academic / technical preparation, alumni networks (and often even personal/family networks in the industry) and internship experience, so it's tough. But guess what -- being an investment banking analyst royally blows, and 90% of them jump ship for opportunities in private equity, hedge funds, etc. as soon as possible. This leaves all the banks to fill up their associate classes with MBA grads. So you can either spend the next 6-12 months begging for a shot at an analyst seat in a somewhat reputable bank, which you've correctly concluded seems highly unlikely to materialize. And you do NOT want to end up at some boiler room "investment bank" in Ohio helping prospective retirees sell their car dealerships or planet fitness franchises, only to begin the process of trying to lateral from there to a middle market bank, which will probably be just as difficult as recruiting now, so I personally view all of this WSO dogma about how you need to be cold emailing everyone in the industry you can find as pretty silly. 

The market sucks right now, you might have went to the wrong school, learned about banking a little too late and did the wrong internships, and that's just the hand you were dealt. None of that matters because this is America, the land of opportunity, and you can still take a great, well-paid corporate finance role at any F500 public company, tech startup, etc. in whatever cool fun city you want and actually ENJOY your life for a few years. Get into the best physical/mental shape of your life while all of these skinny-fat nerds are hunched over their desks eating garbage from Seamless 7 days/week moving logos around powerpoint. And then once you're ready, apply to a M7 MBA program and then cruise through the associate recruiting pipeline along with anyone else with half a pulse. You'll be fine my man! Trust me, I've been there. It might suck now, but nobody promised you a six figure salary with a finance degree fresh out of Kansas State, but I promise you WILL get your bag with some patience and planning! Could have it way worse coming from rural America. Watch some Joey Diaz if you need the motivation to keep crushing it along the way. 

 

Ik people have it easier at target schools since I go to one, but most of the people ik recruiting at these schools aren’t spoon fed kids. We grinded our whole lives to get to ivys. Just perspective on that.

 

same background growing up as OP but semi-target school/better position. It's sometimes really hard when you watch the people around you do well when you know you put the same amount of work.  Some of my friends who were recruiting simultaneously with me were not only in the top 1% for wealth/income, but were also able to play the diversity card. It's sometimes hard looking in the mirror and asking myself why I'm not getting the same traction as others.

To OP, honestly man just play the long game. I was listening to a podcast with Doug Ostrover on it and he said he was rejected from every firm out of undergrad and just out of luck landed a very small gig. Happens to everybody man.

 

Not gonna lie I cringed really hard while reading all of this. Your sense of entitlement definitely comes off in the way you write and speak. I have spoken to non-target kids before (came from a non/semi-target myself) and would personally not pass your resume on just from what I gather of your personality in this post…

 

What part did you cringe at most? Was it my 6 year old nephew dying? I'll try not to be cringey with that next time, sorry.

 

Nobody gives a shit, drop the fucking entitled cringe attitude

 

I went to a state school, graduated with a 3.4. Absolutely no internships ever. Got into an analyst class at a large 4 US banks middle market banking program, left after 11 months and now I do Corp banking at the 6th largest bank in the world making 6 figures. You can’t ever give up bro. Never.

If you really want it, it’s achievable.

 
Prospect in IB-M&A

I lost.

After only God knows how much time, effort, and money spent preparing for SA 2024 recruiting, I am now on the wrong side of recruiting season and got ONE first-round interview to show for it (that I ended up not moving on for, fuck me I guess). I truly don't know what else I could've done, and maybe that's what gives me the closure to write this post so freely. I'll give a quick timeline of how I got here (which isn't very far from where I started):

Fall 2021

  • Leave rural as-fuck hometown to go the only state school (non-target) within 300 miles
  • Admitted straight into the b-school (but it's not on the east or west coast so it doesn't matter, right?)
  • Planned on studying finance, which for now, I had no idea what that meant
  • Got involved with three clubs to learn more about the professional business world
  • 4.0 for the semester

Spring 2022

  • Getting slightly-more familiar with what finance is through these clubs
  • A big suggestion by my university career center is to find mentors, so I somehow get a banker to respond to my message (I only messaged him because it said "finance" under his profile, I had no idea what banking was). Tells me to meet him downtown for coffee on a Tuesday morning, so I skip class to ride the subway from campus to downtown to meet him. I end up getting stood up in the coffee shop; sat there for 75mins like a fucking chump
  • Get tricked into a Northwestern Mutual-esque siren song internship that I made plans for the summer (housing, no other job searching, etc.) only to get it nabbed, rescinded, whatever you wanna call it, two weeks before the start date; left me scrambling for a job, ended up going back home and working labor for the entire summer
  • Have an Earth-shattering, devastating death in the family right before finals
  • End Freshman year with a 3.96 cumulative GPA

Fall 2022

  • Joined my university's closest semblance of an investment banking club, immediately fell in love with the field
  • Purchased $700 online IB prep-course (guess which one)
  • Learn everything from EBITDA to hand-spreading comps on my own ON TOP OF school, clubs, and trying to be social. I've lost ~20lbs because I haven't been able to go to the fucking gym in 8mo
  • End semester with a 3.94 cumulative GPA

Spring 2023

  • Doing everything I can to get bankers on the phone and get my name out there
  • Applying to every fucking internship for every fucking firm under the sun
  • Land corp. fin internship for summer 2023 at a local construction company near campus
  • Take a self-expensed spring break trip to New York and have 12 coffee chats with bankers IN-PERSON (I'm sure that's not a big deal for spoon-fed kids on the east. Actually, a fun little aside - I met an Ivy kid waiting in the lobby for a coffee chat at the same bank I was at, so I asked him who is he waiting for, etc. and the kid didn't have a fucking clue, "I think he's (the guy he was waiting for) in the tech group?" "I thought you were the guy I was meeting with for a second, IDK what he looks like." "Oh yeah I'm on spring break too, me and my friends were just in Punta Cana and instead of going o Tampa for the rest of the week I decided this would be better.")
  • First-round interview with a super small, unrelated firm from back on campus; purely behavioral. Get told by the interviewer how prepared I was, get an email the next week saying I wasn't selected to move on

And so, as of 9:45am on 03/24/2023, I have no interviews, no prospects, nobody responding to emails, and no will to go on. I've taken every fucking Harvard-Crimson dildo and Yale-Blue buttplug balls-deep and said "deeper please" to every banker I've met with just to try and get a glance my way. I've let people belittle my school, my background, and my hometown because they operate as if their lives are worth more than mine purely because they were born out east and go to Princeton. I've eaten shit my entire life with a smile on my face because the only reason I'm even here is because my motor has never quit; for whatever reason my path has never been easy. So finally, after all is said and done, I type before you today dejected and drained. 

Let me make three things absolutely clear.

1) Ivy students, I do not deliberately hate you or have such a huge amount of envy toward you; I know this entire rant has been sneaking jabs and anger (or insecurity if you want to call it that) directed at you but it's not your fault that you were born into your situation and played your dealt hand right, as it's not my fault mine was the other way. You clearly deserve it, and so do I, but life isn't fair and that's not your fault.

2) There are going to be a ton of speculative assumptions made in the comments about why I haven't been successful (or maybe this post flops and nobody gives a shit, that's what I'm used to anyways), and I don't care. Nobody's perfect, and I know this post is going to make it hard for me to support why I should be successful (self-pity, angry, personality, etc.), but here's the honest truth: I have put an unbelievable amount of preparation as a person, as a candidate, and as a student just to get here; I am a blue-collar kid that is eager to learn and is humble in theory. Maybe I come off as arrogant, desperate, etc. sometimes but for the most part I would like to think I am somebody you can talk to and see yourself working 90hrs with (and I am ESPECIALLY conscious of this when I network). I am not a transactional person and I give people the time of day because I know what it's like to not be given the time of day.

3) I need guidance. I have so much pent-up anger and a chip on my shoulder the size of Mount Everest because of this recruiting season and I don't know where to direct it anymore. I am a very emotional person, and it took me years of my adolescence to learn how to direct my strong emotions into productive things, but I frankly can't function with how angry I am at the world right now. Maybe it'd be better if there was a certain thing I could pin my misfortunes and unsuccessful efforts on but there isn't and that's what's tearing me apart. If even one person out there can give me some help on what to even do from here this post will have been worth it.

This entire process has left me questioning whether I should even pursue banking anymore, but the truth is I don't care. I'm sure I'll end up at some regional shit-shop and either give up or go for it; with how I'm feeling after this season, I'm guessing the former. I hate the entire made-up fairy dust game that every candidate has to play to get into this exclusive club known as IB, but maybe that's why I lost the game.

You won't get much sympathy here but I feel for you

 

Alright man you can come back from this. First you need to take your ACT score off, anything below a 30 looks questionable and I would only put a 32 or higher on there. It just doesn't make sense next to the 4.0 like did you even take the exam? Second you need to get an IB internship ASAP. I broke in from a non-target and so did ten + guys I know. We all had boutique bank internships sophomore year before recruiting came around. GPA and clubs only get you so far. You need to be able to tell the right story. Also, why tf are you giving up now? Recruiting just started if you're non diversity. I got my SA offer in November my junior year. You haven't failed until you stop trying. From this position you need to internalize that it truly isn't over until it's over. You have more than two years left to secure a role in IB. Yeah the market sucks right now but you can keep at it and find something close enough. It's rough for full time too. I was laid off alongside half my analyst class early in 2023. Nobody expected it to be this bad so quickly so just bear with it as things adjust. Recruiting will be complete garbage until the end of 2023 or later. One last thing I think your attitude shines through in a negative way from what you wrote. Stay humble champ. Best of luck. 

 

Non target as well. It can be done. Just gotta work harder

 

OP- happy to help with anything related to resume, cover letter, provide resources (useful for interview prep; not useless modeling courses), etc. Context: current sophomore who just landed SA '24 role in Tier 2 RX firm, had 80% hit rate on networking (no exaggeration), and went to semi-target. LMK how I can help

 

yea bro. spent at least 20-30min per email to ensure the content was hyper specific, and I'd never send emails to random people. always had at least one commonality (i.e., same semi-target school, same major (which was liberal arts), same extracurricular, same sport (I'm a student athlete, but my good buddy is a NARP yet specifically targeted student-athletes and mentioned that they were "interested in hearing about their experience, etc." in the email and had same hit rates), same previous company (I'm working at large, multi-national firm this summer), same hobby (i.e., chess), etc.). Took some digging to both find specific people who had at least one commonality, but had 80%+ hit rate after that and always had a good enough convo to get referrals to other employees. 

I've always been a more personable guy, so I knew student-athletes were sure-fire type of person to target, as even if they were hardos, I could spend at least 5-10min small-talking about something. Plus, would ask very specific and thought-provoking student-athlete Q's (won't say on forum since it'd dox me) which was clearly appreciated as it was beyond the surface level and made them relive their college athletics experience. Anyone who drops their username below, I'll try to PM them my "template" - although, I wouldn't call it a template since 90% of the words were specific. But the structure was relatively similar.

 

How at all is this my parents' fault? Every comment calling me entitled, I would be showing some true entitlement if I was acting like it's my parents' fault.

Shitting on my ACT, fine; I didn't have tutors or nothing in HS, and I took it literally a week before the world shut down. I got the 2nd highest score in my class, the top being a 30. Nobody goes to Ivies, let alone state schools where I'm from.

 

Well your post is all about how unfair the process is and how stacked the deck is against you to break into IB as a first year.

Now why is that? Well what’s making it so hard is your background of course. It’s easier to break in via a top school. Although I would be remiss if I didn’t point out that in today’s environment I’m actually seeing banks hiring more kids from random crappy schools than top schools as the pendulum has firmly swung over to mass diversity.

Now, how does one get into a top school? Many ways, but the two most common our family connections or academic merit.

Judging from your post, your parents didn’t do anything exceptional with themselves, so you’re not rich or well connected. Which is what most of us are.

I grew up just like you. Crappy blue collar town, where more people had never heard of Harvard, much less cared about it. My family didn’t have much money, we were solid middle class. Never starving, but never eating dinners out that cost more than 30 a person.

However, my parents instilled in me the importance of grades, spent time with me at night with homework, got me extra tuitions, they basically taught me that education is the fastest way to the top of society. So via top grades, I got out.

Given you went to a crappy college, we can assume your grades were not top. Now, I don’t believe you can really blame high schoolers for not realizing how hard it is to get into a great college. I remember how lazy and deluded I was as a teen. If my parents didn’t ride me, I would have been happy going to a state school too.

So that’s why I said you should blame your parents if you are so bitter. If they did have monetary success, I understand. It’s hard to get awesome jobs. But there is zero excuse for not pushing you in high school. Zero. Do you understand my point now?

 

Again blaming everything but yourself. There are endless studies showing that ACT/SAT prep has only a marginal impact on scores. Scores correlate way more with aptitude than they do with prep time. Prep is only going to affect your score a small amount unless you're one of the people that crams like crazy for months on end. You know how much my SAT prep helped me? A fat 20 points overall. Similar story for most other people I know. Once you got your score you tended to stay in that range no matter how much more prep, and looking at it big picture, most people scored about as expected relative to their perceived intelligence. Reality is you either didn't care/try when you took it, or aren't as smart as you think you are (gonna bet on both given you have a huge ego about your 3.9 gpa at a C-tier school). Are there 29 ACT scorers that are way smarter than their score? Yes of course, but the majority of them ended up right where they belonged.

Even then it wouldn't matter since IB is more about hard work than anything else, and you can work around a bad ACT, but your attitude is gonna kill your chances well before your ACT might have. 

 

literally 0 shot anyone with at any BB/MM/EB is responding to your cold email boss... (a) typo in first sentence- you need a comma after your name (b) relentlessly preparing? who cares? so has everyone else? either show your preparation by saying you're in a finance club, etc. or make it about them, not you (c) i'd be willing to bet $1B that your "why that group is interesting" is dogshit and generic (i.e., insightful) based on the rest of your comments/dialect (d) so long for no reason... get to the point upfront (e) 3rd paragraph... wtf? so you basically just write a summary on their LinkedIn profile and think that is unique/personalized or makes you stand out? LMAO (f) why tf are you posting times... and your M/W are so busy that you cannot chat until after 5p? can't even step out of class to accommodate for their schedule? at bare minimum, if you're posting times, you should say that you're able to be flexible and accommodate to their schedule. Last sentence is cringe and turn off... in addition to the fact that it's grammatically incorrect (run-on). This isn't even getting into your resume that you claim is so top-tier that you deserve 1st Rounds

You need to wake tf up out of your fairy tale. The cold hard reality is that you are from a non-target with a mediocre,at best, resume (which has horrible bullet points that describe nothing and don't line-up with your narrative that you've been grinding so hard- if so, then you'd know how to properly write the bullet points) competing with not only better candidates at your school but with Ivy League caliber talent. This is (for simplicity) the most coveted job out of undergrad, and you feel entitled to taking the spot of others with elite profiles. 

What's crazy is I empathized with your story initially. I gave your OP +1SB. Then I read the comments and realized how little effort you've put into your resume and cold email template. You're all talk and certainly are not the caliber of individual any bank of value is looking for

 

OP, amongst all the other comments regarding your attitude (painfully bad), here's some basic resume advice which you somehow have evaded until now: every bullet point on your resume ought to have a numerical quantifier. You can ballpark this and it doesn't have to be accurate to the letter. Higher organic growth? Exposure? Higher conversion rates? What does any of this mean? Do you think the HR woman perusing resume #564 is going to take the time to try and figure it out when she has another 200 to do before the end of the week? It actually gets worse as it goes down: how did you manage to work somewhere for four months just to complete a three-statement model, which you even had collaboration on? You need to rewrite the resume from scratch using way more imagination than this one has. Whoever green lighted your resume should be shot.

 

I haven’t posted in like two years but your attitude (in the comments in particular) is annoying enough to get me to opine. You clearly think you’re incredibly special because you have a good GPA and “made it out” of a small town - but you’re not. A high GPA in Finance at a Big Ten school is a dime-a-dozen, it’s just objectively not a hard major. So what else are you bringing to the table?

My guess is that you’re not self-aware enough to realize how much you are giving off vibes of “I deserve this” in your networking and interviews. If you were some potential superstar you could get away with that but realistically-speaking you aren’t. You should be leading with humility and the realization that you’re playing from behind relative to many of your competitors, who have probably been aiming for banking since they were in high school (which is gross but I digress).

I also suspect that it’s you that is consistently bringing up your hometown and high school, not the people you are talking to. You clearly are letting it define you here as you continually use it to defend everything you haven’t accomplished. And it probably is important, but unless someone comes from a similar place, no one is going to care or give you extra credit for it. Given the fact that it seems like your parents are paying for college, it’s not like you’re dragging yourself out of the mud my guy. Give it a rest.

I say all this as someone who came from a town that I am certain is smaller than yours and went to a college that I am certain has less of a brand in banking than yours (that my parents didn’t contribute a dime towards). I didn’t even get into banking until after I graduated college, but I just finished a 2-year stint in PE and am exiting for a really unique opportunity. I’m not particularly special myself, but I got here because I didn’t define myself by what I didn’t have, I just worked 10% harder than my peers and let my abilities define me and people genuinely liked working with me.

So be more aware of your attitude, keep working towards getting relevant experience (why aren’t you working during the semesters?), and re-calibrate your expectations. You’re probably going to land at a MM or LMM bank as your first stop. Which is fine! It’s a great place to get a foot in the door and get some reps. Some of the smartest people I’ve worked with started at shitty little banks. Just be humble enough to accept that and do great work there, and doors will keep opening up. Good luck to you.

 

Bro - going to keep it quick since I had a similiar experience. Not getting the best job out of school isn't as bad as you think. I know that it feels like huge sunk costs right now - but as others mentioned you will be fine. Just have the right attitude (WHICH YOU YOURSELF SAY YOU DO) when starting there.

 

Everyone here has covered this, but one thing I want to add is that your background isn’t special. There are thousands of kids from similar towns at similar schools with similar GPAs also struggling to get jobs. At some point it becomes a numbers game and there’s no reason someone at a bank should give you a shot over anyone else. It’s an absolutely atrocious recruiting market right now and it’s going to be a long time before banking groups reach the size they were pre-tightening. 
 

Second — getting a job at a BB bank isn’t the end all goal. If you’re truly “passionate” about the industry, you should be hitting every small sellside advisor up. There are hundreds of these guys across the country and I’d bet most of them would love to have an intern or analyst from a background like yours over someone from an Ivy. You can make a nice little career for yourself there or use it a stepping stone to make it to a larger bank, LMM PE, M7 MBA, or whatever it is that would make you happy. 
 

lastly — I didn’t interview you so I don’t know you, but your posts make it sound like you think you’re better than your hometown/college/family. If that’s coming through in interview or coffee chats or cover letters, that’s an instant ding from me and most people I know. You keep saying you’re trying to come across as humble but I don’t see that at all and I bet it’s coming through in all of your interactions. 

 

As a kid I was humiliated by the experience of being poor. I saw how my parents had to scrounge, and I knew that was no life for me. What, like other people deserved a better life than me? Like they’re better than me? No! I was furious. I dreamt of breaking the poverty cycle since I worked my first job as a 13 year old getting paid under the table at a shady restaurant over the summer. Knew I wanted to do IB since freshman year of high school, was reading Matt Levine daily by sophomore year, even convinced a SM L/S to give me a (severely underpaid) summer internship. Worked 70 hours a week the summer I had to study for my SATs.

I came from a broken, low income family that never went to college before and was accepted into one of those (top 3) ivies you talk on and on about as if there is only one profile of people attending these institutions. I’ve seen firsthand how hard many of these people work too - how many rich people out there would like their kids to attend Harvard, and how many actually get to do so? There are only so many seats. Many of them have outcompeted equally privileged peers all of their lives up to the point of acceptance. It’s true, doesn’t change the fact that many of them grew up very rich or in well educated families. But none of that should matter to you. The most dangerous excuses are built on parts of the truth, because it makes it just so easy to use them as a shield for your ego. All generational wealth had to be built up by someone, at some point.

Look at the culture of our society today. There is a shortage and desperate need for smart, ambitious, hard working people in our world and generation. If you are putting in as much as you say you are and don’t quit, then you will be rewarded in time. Think about what you could’ve done better. Execution, strategy? What, do you think you’re a genius and made all the right decisions with no mistakes? You need to be reflective, to be improving and learning constantly. That requires a certain attitude of brutal honesty and self criticism that I’m not sensing here. And I don’t know you, but this post sounds like defeatist excuse making to me. Be better

 

Congrats brother. That's the American dream. You are the type I like meeting on the Street. You working at a hedge fund now?

 

holy shit... absolute chad. you are THAT guy. hope OP can open his eyes

 

Respectfully, my SA didn't convert since the banking sector took a shit and now I am graduating with nothing but my dick in my hand. 

 

As others have said the industry is in really tough shape right now so I wouldn’t put all of your eggs in one basket. You can still dedicate half your time to IB recruiting but I would also dedicate the other half of your time to other positions that are achievable (Corp Fin, Big 4, etc.). If you strike out these jobs will provide you with a good enough foundation to pivot down the line if you still wish to pursue IB via an MBA. It’s not a perfect solution by any means but given your grades you’d be a solid candidate for most M7 programs with Corp Fin/Big 4 experience and an average test score. Recruiting out of pretty much any program in the T15 is a joke given the structured recruiting pipeline and I’m confident that you’ve already put in more work than 90% of the people I encountered recruiting for associate roles. At the program I attended I would say 80% of the people would not have made it past the first or second round of an analyst interview at the T15 I attended. You had people who didn’t know basic accounting, what the job entailed, and didn’t understand the difference between IB, PE, HF, AM, and VC landing associate gigs with ease many of whom went to prestigious colleges for UG. While this is certainly frustrating, I’m telling you this to let you know that in the event you fail at landing a seat out of UG you’re more than prepared and capable for recruiting for MBA associate gigs 4-5 years down the line successfully. When my time to recruit for these kinds of seats came given that I had put in the legwork previously and actually knew what I was talking about I was able to smoke the kinds of people I lost out on opportunities to out of UG because I went to a non target. 

Something else that I’ll include in here for you and others that I firmly believe: 

Anywhere you go including non targets there will be 10% of people you have no chance of competing with. These people are just inherent rockstars and on a level that will be virtually impossible for anyone to match without an obscene amount of work. On the tail end of this the bottom 10% of people provide virtually no competition for substantially everyone. That leaves you with 80% of the population where the line between them is very much blurred and differentiated through there work ethic. This whole idea that if you go to an ivy or other top school makes you more capable or smarter than someone else is complete bull shit. My observations are that those that get into those kinds of schools are largely polished or have a spike which helps them in admissions. When it comes time to actually do the work the vast majority of these kids aren’t able to differentiate themselves from the vast majority of the population and really aren’t that special outside of the brand name on their resume. My program was filled with people that finished near the top of their class at H/S/W/P/Y/D and these people were all impressive on paper but when it came down to it wouldn’t be able to compete with top students at the non target I went to. They’d be average to slightly above average students at your run of the mill state school and competing with these people intellectually was not difficult at all. I’m just a regular dude and barely had to put any effort in to finish at the top of my class at the target program I attended.

 

Join the military and go kick doors with the infantry for a few years. Great place to ride out the recession. If you're really serious about a career in investment banking by the end of your enlistment, just then use the GI bill to cover tuition at a top MBA program. Goldman Sachs and Evercore will still be around in four years - its not rocket science.

 

You would probably be better served not posting anonymously to allow anyone who empathizes with your situation to reach out.

 

Try to get a corporate or corporate-adjacent job as your first job. You are not nearly self-aware or polished enough to get a banking job out of school. If by some miracle you do get an IB job as your 1st job, you will get eaten alive and flame out very quickly. You lack perspective and self awareness and in your situation that is something that only life experience can fix. If you kill it at a regular job for some years and still want banking but are unable to lateral in, you would be the type of candidate that MBAs exist for. 

Edit: I'd just like to add that a career in banking is as much, if not more, about soft skills as about hard skills. The reason I cite lack of polish as an almost insurmountable obstacle in your case is because we have all worked with that kid who is just not in tune with reality and just doesn't get it. It's a huge turnoff when someone has an undeserved chip on his shoulder and doesn't channel it in a positive manner. These are the kids who think they're doing everyone a favor by staying until midnight or taking an "extra" staffing thinking they're going above and beyond, and make it known to everyone in the bullpen about how much they're getting "crushed". But in reality the rest of their analyst class is there until 2-3AM actually crushed, with their heads down and not complaining. So my point is these are kids who lack polish and perspective, are an absolute displeasure to work with, get pushed out, don't get promoted, and wash out of the industry. Don't be that person. 

 

Keep your head down, keep grinding, and stay resilient. Make sure you’re reflecting on any feedback or failures along the way to improve your candidacy. I go to a non-target (non diversity) and (although I was just going to delay to Dec24 grad date due to an off cycle fall ib internship), I wound up continuously interviewing for SA23 through the fall and got a top MM offer in November for the 23 summer. Point being: don’t quit, and interviews will be ongoing for a while.

Make sure you’re reflecting through the process, and if you need any advice feel free to PM me. Best of luck

 

OP Here - I don't want to close off this thread but I do think an update is necessary.

I have received an overwhelming amount of feedback and been given an inspiring amount of help. Some of you have helped me with my resume, given me places to look at, how to hedge my risk, and so much more; for that I can only say thank you.

I'm not going to say I've had an epiphany in the last two days because frankly I don't think you guys would buy it, but I have done a lot of reflecting. I have been a fucking asshole the last six months - no other way to put it. My life has been consumed by banking; seeping into my interests, shoving out my hobbies, and isolating me from my friends. I never once thought about volunteer work, spreading goodwill (no pun intended), or even spending time with my family. The support some of you have shown me, somebody acting like a child, helped open my eyes a little more. You've helped me realize that there is somebody/something to blame for my lack of success: Me. 

To take from iggs99988's comment, I didn't (and still don't) get it. I won't claim that I do now but thanks to you guys I have a roadmap to get to that point. The first is to pay it forward; I have taken so much more than I have given in my life so far and there are so many places I can give and make that difference not as vast. The second is to, paradoxically, take it easy; I have taken myself so seriously and had so much confidence (or arrogance, rather) in my abilities that I never once thought how others are the same way - except that they are twice as capable. Those are the two biggest themes I've taken from this thread and two immediate changes I can make. My head literally feels like it has cleared up and I am more focused and present than I think I've ever been.

I invite you all to continue to rip apart the child in the OP because the harshest criticism has been the biggest help. I haven't worked nearly hard enough to warrant the rant I made and I am clearly not nearly as ready/deserving for the most entry-level role of this industry as I thought I was. I will make occasional updates in here or make a new post highlighting my results during this period where I can still make this happen (if you guys want) but for now I want to say thank you and wish the rest of the students in my shoes the best of luck. You're likely more aware than I am and can still do this, too.

 

Best of luck. I had to take a lot of harsh pills in undergrad that rocked my ego. My story is published somewhere on this site. If you stay positive and keep working intelligently playing the long game, things will work out.

Be excellent to each other, and party on, dudes.
 

You are still very young. Cold email every regional bank in the USA seeing if they would take an off-cycle intern, even if it is unpaid. You have the grades, now build the IB experiences and leadership qualities. I was apart of Teach for America's Ignite Fellowship which allowed me to remotely help with a lower income class. Awesome initiative, only 10 hours a week, and Teach For America looks great in HR.

I am getting killed right now for FT Recruitment and have plenty of days where I view my situation as being hopeless. But then I think about my dad who worked 2 jobs his whole life and never had the opportunity to go to college. How much money he had to give so I had that opportunity. And that I want the hours of coffee chats and thousands of emails sent to pay off. 

Just got to keep going.

 

Hey Man,

Everyone is offering feedback. I'm here to offer real help and will make some connections I have at some MM/Boutiques. PM me if interested.  Also consider you could just crush it at being a student, kill the GRE/GMAT and get into Vandys/UVA/Simon UofR/JHU/ 1 year masters post graduation which will surely land you a solid analyst job. Seen this happen alot and can help you with this as well.

Good luck,

Dreaming of a banking Christmas
 

Simply put, your resume and cold email are absolutely terrible. Being from a non-target shouldn't really hold you back at all if you have a strong resume and a good network. You have no capital markets experience at all. Tbh what did you even expect?

 

International kid here from a "frontier-market" economy, single-parent household. Moved to the US alone to attend an IVY+ school on a full-ride, broke into the industry. Could not be more grateful for all the opportunities that came my way in college and beyond from people that just felt like helping (did not have to help at all, could pass by without a single thought).

Put the emotions aside, don't compare yourself to anyone else, every single person has their own unique path and shit they are dealing with. Stay committed and keep grinding, hitting your head against the wall until something comes out. Don't be emotional and don't panic. I know it can be very hard but try to instill a feeling of peace and confidence that things will work out . Cannot emphasize enough how much mental energy the panic and anger is sucking out of you.

Good luck. I do believe that things will work out for you, change your attitude and try to convince yourself of this too :) 

 

Your resume needs work. Your message is also way too long. Keep it short and sweet. 

In your shoes I would consider interning for a credit rating agency. You'll get great experience, and plenty of people have leveraged credit rating agency experience into a banking internship/full time offer. Have you applied to any of the non-BB banks? There are so many European and smaller banks in NYC that I never heard of and strongly regret not applying to. You get paid well in these banks, some are lifestyle banks,  and the experience is invaluable. 

 

OP.. your post is way too long to read. I understand the struggle but looks like you are aiming for best of the best. Good work on the GPA front.. hope its still above 3.7-3.8. Scrolled thru the post and saw your sample email.. seems like a spam and would immediately delete (wayyyy too long, shows desperation). You are a human trying to get in touch with a human so keep it simple. See sample below that should get you good response rate atleast from alums. PM me if you need any help/guidance..


 

Subject: [Insert University Name] Junior - Interested in Investment Banking at [Insert Bank Name]

Hello First Name,

I hope are doing well. I came across your profile on [LinkedIn/Alumni database/Mutual connection] and thought to reach out. I am currently a Junior at [University Name] and I am interested in learning about about Investment Banking at [Bank Name]. Would you have some time to talk about the team and share your experience over a brief call this week or next week? I can talk whatever time works best for you.

I have attached my resume for background purpose. I know you must be busy so appreciate any time you can spare.

Best,

AS

 

I agree with a lot of the above comments that recruiting is not at all over. Around this time last year I was in a very similar position, coming from a non-target and not having a spot lined up at what I thought was the end of the recruiting season. I never gave up and it took until the middle of the summer to finally land a IB SA.

You got this man! Don’t give up!

 

Hey OP,

There must be something wrong with the way you are coming off to the people you are networking with - your creds are probably on-par with mine, but I went to a backwater school (<~5 people to banking per year) and landed myself in ~dozen processes, with four superdays (between three major cities) and two offers out of a ~6 month timeline.

Complaining is going to get you nowhere - maybe lower your expectations of where you are going to work. At this rate EBs are a long shot. BBs and MMs are more probable. Maybe you should start looking at regional boutiques and smaller MMs in addition to whatever you're doing now. Something is better than nothing. 

As people are saying, it's not over for at least ~4-5 more months, some BBs (e.g., WF) recruit later in the season, like at the end of summer. There is still hope. 

Please get a grip - plenty of nontarget people have pulled this off by cutting their teeth (including myself and many of my friends) and going half crazy during recruiting. Fostering a resentment to privileged people is not going to work well for you in the long run, and they are right to reciprocate that sentiment if you are giving them attitude. Take a wild guess as to the type of colleges most people in senior banking positions went to. 

 

If you had 12 coffee chats and didn’t make it past first rounds, could be the way you carry the conversation with people that turns people off. Try to come up with genuine, not predictable questions that show deep knowledge about the industry of whoever you talk to. Think “how can I make my thoughts insightful such that I give them a good conversation in return for their time” whenever you are conversing with someone. When I do coffee chats, I’m rooting for the kids that are a joy to talk to—they add color to my day with interesting topics and ways of thinking about the industry that challenge me. Use every coffee chat as a way to learn about the industry more, or parts that are interesting to you, so that way you can recycle these parts of the conversation in another coffee chat/use it to nail down your story. Surface level predictability is not memorable.

 

1) IB isn’t that glorious. It’s borderline slavery at the junior levels.

2) IB revs are down ~50% in 2022, the industry/bonus pool basically halved in one year. We’re also facing a recession. Doesn’t look good.

3) IB is a pedigree game. You don’t actually use your brain at the junior level, so they need Ivy League kids to make the illusion.

4) Non-target kids, aim for a role that is merit-based. You can’t control university admissions, but you can control knowledge. Aim for hedge funds. Quant funds if you’re smart.

4.5) I see these quant fund guys (HRT, etc.) pulling 500k comp out of UG and flying to Vegas every month for fun. While IB analysts are chained to their offices until 2AM making 1/3 of that. They literally have to ask for permission to eat dinner outside the office.

Work smart not hard.

 

I think that your perspective on this needs to be changed. Sounds a bit entitled. I had a somewhat similar experience during my on-cycle recruiting process for SA 2023. I got 5 first rounds, two of which led to superdays, and no offers. I was frustrated and didn't want to keep going on with the IB recruiting process, took a week off from it, and kept going with the off-cycle stuff. 

In hindsight, I wish I did a lot more networking, as I really only networked with the 5 firms I got first rounds at. Casting a wider net never hurts. 

My advice is to keep on the lookout for MM firms and continue sending emails. Definitely make them short and don't include your availability (I saw this from one of the comments) and maybe go for regional stuff. Being that you're from a rural place, stick to a industry specific firm in your area if you don't have any NY connections. I did this and it ended up working out for me. 

Part of the process is driven by luck, and being in the right place in the right time. I feel for you and understand that it's super frustrating. Good luck amigo.

 

OP I come from a worse background than you and I made it for SA 22. If you get rejected cry move on and keep on trying, I never cried but the recruiting process was brutal, I knew getting into IB will change and has changed my life. A lot of banks will recruit through September(JPM, Citi etc) October and some will go through December. You have time just put your head down forgot about classes and recruit hard. Apply to “ lower tier banks” socgen, mizuho etc. I know it might not be the ideal place but keep your options open. I also have seen kids who worked at a regional bank and got a FT offer at a BB but that was during a good market idk how things will turn out now but goodluck

 

Brother, honestly, fuck the rat race and the elitism. Go start your own blue collar service provider company, it sounds like you should have some of the necessary skills already. Then, lean on your demonstrated work ethic and recently acquired finance/accounting knowledge to scale it. Run it for a decade or so making pretty solid money and then sell it to some LMM shop trying to execute yet another roll up. Cash out and go hang out with your wife and kids, buy a lake house and a boat or a ranch. Sure, you might not be living on Park Ave with a house in the Hamptons wearing $10k suits and driving a 7 series, but honestly who fucking cares. Skip the ass kissing, circle jerk, elitist circus that is IB/PE. Even if you break in, you will always be viewed as lesser than because you didn’t go to Phillips Exeter > Harvard > MS > KKR. As long as you can provide a good life for your family (and still have time to actually see them), then you’re doing alright in my book. 
 

If you still want to pursue the finance route, then by all means pursue it and give it your all. There’s a ton of good info in these other comments, leverage it if that’s the path you’re choosing. It’s never too late. 
 

Godspeed in whatever endeavor you choose. Get knocked down 7 times, stand up 8. 

 

Can definitely empathize with the frustration. I myself am a HYPS kid (army vet) going into junior summer having been rejected from the PE/Private credit shops I applied to for my junior year internship so I do have some anxiety bc I know the importance of the junior year internship. I started the process late and this year that turned out to be a huge mistake considering the already fragile state of the industry. We’ll see what happens. You’re not alone man. Enjoy life for what it is, adjust, and succeed.

 

I know a guy who worked his way into a random small boutique bank in Texas after working at a rating agency.

He had to move somewhere kind of random but once you’re in it’s honestly pretty easy to lateral even upwards.

Try corporate development too (not business development) I imagine people doing M&A at a company can lateral to IB with not a huge amount of difficulty if you network etc.

 

You are the kinda guy I hire. It’s good to vent. And the odds are stacked against you, I get your frustrated. Toughest battles are given to the toughest soldiers. 
 

when you look back on this in ten years I want you to remember all the people who believed in you and the ones who didn’t. 
 

I’ll take a hungry and smart Penn State guy over any Harvard know it all anyway of the week. You hire for attitude not skills, use that to your advantage. Good luck op. 

 

Although I am not in IB, I’m in RE, I felt compelled to reply because what you said resonated with me. I too have eaten shit my entire life with a smile on my face because my motor has never quit, and for whatever reason my path has never been easy either.

I had 3 deaths in my family and lost my friend to a car accident during my first spring semester. My mother left home due to grief for a long period of time; my dad worked himself to the bone and slept in the office. There were days at home where there was no food and I had no money.

Ended up graduating with a 2.31 GPA and I had a dismal internship, obviously. My whole existence was reduced to my dogshit stats. I was dejected, and I had zero self-worth.

Anyway, I strategized. Looking back, I don’t know how I managed to switch off my emotions. I knew I wasn’t getting into consulting firms, which is what I wanted at the time. But, I also knew I loved Real Estate from the one course I bumped into during uni. I managed to land a job with JLL. I had all my eggs in that one basket but I made it work by doing exactly what you did. Worked my ass off but for a plan B. A different, less ideal and less scenic route. An “easier” route some would say and in many perspectives that would be correct.

Fast forward 10 years. I’m working real estate consulting, not MBB but still highly reputable. My career was fast-tracked. I led some of the most prestigious projects in the world. In total, the projects I led had an impact of USD $50+ billion in Gross Value Added to economies and USD $1.3+ trillion in local and foreign investments. The funny thing is that with all the specialist experience, clients keep coming back and saying that they prefer working with me and the team over MBBs. The feedback we get is that we don’t bullshit. We’re technically robust and know RE inside out.

I’m happy I didn’t go into consulting. I ended up better off.

This month, I got accepted to MIT and Columbia. Waitlisted Harvard.

 The 10 years I worked my ass off for came with its own obstacles too (divorce, health issues). But one benefit of the shit I went through as an undergrad is that all the crap I got hit with afterward didn’t phase me or slow me down. You will be the same way after this passes.

In essence, you’ll be more than OK. Get emotions out of it and strategize. Sometimes the less scenic route leads you to greener pastures. Other times you get exactly what you want but it takes a little longer.

 

Nothing's over man you are in undergrad keep it real! whole cohorts of people don't even enter into IB until the associate level.

I feel the frustration over target > non-target (I suppose foreign school is an even lower bucket. That be me) but there's things you can do to tip-toe round some hurdles.

Here's what I would do in your shoes:

Seek an international summer. It'll make your resume more interesting and big state schools are still well known in London, Frankfurt, Amsterdam etc. Also, a lot of $400-700b balance sheet banks that are no name to you have offices in New York. You'd be interesting cause the working permits are implied. It'll raise some questions perhaps as to how you ended up there when you apply to bb which is exactly what you want. in your words; "kid from bumfuck nowhere did a summer at the NYC office of the major IB of San Marino the fuck?"

Hit me up if you need concrete names but either way good luck

 

I am non-target with a 3.5 GPA and no finance background. Missed 22' rounds extended my graduation and landed a 23' summer internship at BB.

  • Stay Committed: When I chose to pursue a career in investment banking, I committed to it. It didn't matter how long it would take; 2 years if I landed a summer internship or 10+ years working my way up. The first guy I networked with mentioned that to me. He spent over 10 years trying to break into IB by working his way up the ranks via back office. He eventually accomplished his goal and became a very successful MD. Moral of the story, do whatever it takes, even if that means working for free at a local shop
  • Network, Network, Network: Email everyone, and I mean everyone. I sent over 2500 emails to: Global head, chairman, md, vp, associate, analyst, hr. I tracked everything on spreadsheets and kept a very simple 2 paragraph pitch. 0.4% responded. One of the few that responded lead to my 23' offer. Your email should introduce yourself, talk about your interest in IB, and ask for a quick 10-15 min phone call to learn about their journey. Should be no more than 8 sentences. Remember these are relationships that need to be developed over years not just people that you will use to lateral yourself into a job.
  • Be Grateful: Stop drowning in self-pity, Charlie Munger will be the first to tell you that. I came from a dirt-poor family in a dirt-poor town with one of the highest unemployment rates in the US, and currently live in a van lol, but never have I been ungrateful. Many kids from outside the US work 1000x harder to land a job with a stable income. Given the looming recession, the IB process will only become more competitive, which means there is no room for self-pity. Practice gratefulness, keep learning, and network.
    , 7 Lessons from Charlie Munger.

Good luck! 

 

A couple of general thoughts, one careers are long and nonlinear. Plenty of people didn’t break into investment banking on their first try, many bankers spent time in big for transaction services, corporate banking, or at a ratings agency. You may have to settle for something other than investment banking, and seek to lateral at a later date.
 

Two, the competitiveness of banking is driven by the economy as a whole. If you were unlucky enough to graduate back in 2009 or 10, it was way harder to get a role than in boom times.

Three, that outreach email is way too long and giving your availability just reeks of entitlement. If you’re a college student you don’t have much going on, when I got a banker willing to talk to me, if it interfered with class time I skipped class to take the call or stepped out for the 20 minutes that it would take.

Finally, as somebody who isn’t going to a target school, recruiting in what is shaping up to be a very difficult recruiting year, you don’t get to be selective. You will need to take interviews with, and network with small shops without brand names. There are hundreds of small 5 to 50 banker firms and realistically you should be trying to reach out to every one of those that is legitimate. It’s going to take a lot of effort on nights and weekends, you need to pull together a list, get contact information and shoot a very short email to them. The email should be something like:
“Hello,

My name is [] and I am a [class year] at [school name] interested in a career in investment banking. I was wondering if it might be possible to speak about your experiences in banking and at [firm name]. Are you free in the next few weeks to talk?

Thank you,

[your name]”

Draft the emails each night and weekend and try and send them between the hours of 7:30 and 9:00 AM so they were at the top of the inbox for a banker in the morning. Take calls, keep copious notes and honestly even look into CRM. If you don’t hear in a week follow up, if you don’t hear in a few more days move on to the next banker at the firm.

 

Two years ago, I started recruiting in late March/April and did not get an IB offer until August and then I got three in quick succession through September. Turns out the final one of the three was amazing, was for a top PC shop by AUM, great WLB, great people and very interesting work. Keep it up, but also realize a career is a very long thing there might seem to be a golden path but you hardly need to follow it to reach a good point where you are happy with your life as a person, 

 

Got a bunch of rejections for summer analyst positions and ended up not getting anything until this February. instead of complaining about it just put your head down and keep grinding. If you want it enough, put your head down and keep working and eventually it’ll work out.

 

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