BB Leveraged Finance Groups-Which group actually does modeling (even if it is non-sponsor deals)?

boomstick1's picture
Rank: Chimp | 8

I understand that at some BBs, sponsor deals are modeled in the LevFin group such as BAML/JPM. However, anyone know which BBs (such as CS, Citi, DB) have levfin groups that still do modeling for other industry groups, even if does not mean modeling sponsor deals. From what I have gathered, it seems that CS and DB still do modeling in the levfin group, just not on sponsor related deal while Citi's Levfin desk is more of an ECM/DCM kind of role where they are working on pricing and market color.

Comments (113)

Feb 18, 2011

let me just say, without going into specifics, that all the information on this website regarding modeling in LevFin groups are more inaccurate than they are accurate.

my suggestion to you, straight up ask the Levfin team you are interviewing with.

Feb 18, 2011

Was in levfin in London for a while and never heard of any group which didn't do its own modelling. Actually, levfin modelling is usually more detailed than M&A modelling simply because you are at a stage where you have way more data than at pitching or CIM phase, and actually have to model detailed cash flow and waterfalls based on contemplated or actual debt structure. I was in banking in 2006 though... time flies!

Feb 18, 2011

was in levfin as well as m&a and restructuring.

all banks will tell you they model, but not all do. the ones that don't will sort of beat around the bush. goldman for example told me in my interview that "they contribute to the model and provide expertise related to debt"

many levfin groups play a very secondary role in running hte model. citi, goldman, morgan. have you ever really heard of these groups being top groups? its always ubs la, goldman tmt, jpm levfin, ubs sponsors, etc and places like that that are mentioned.

Feb 18, 2011

GS, MS and Citi are clear that levfin is ONLY PRICING AND NO MODEL

lol @ above idiot, ubs aint top for anything.

Mar 27, 2011
boutiquebank4life:

GS, MS and Citi are clear that LevFin is ONLY PRICING AND NO MODEL

lol @ above idiot, UBS aint top for anything.

lol at the idiot who just started at a 2 man boutique. ubs la used to be fucking good just a few years back.

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Feb 18, 2011

anyone know about CS?

Feb 21, 2011
boomstick1:

anyone know about CS?

As you said in your OP, CS Sponsors models deals for financial sponsor clients. CS Lev Fin also models, but for non-sponsor related deals.

Feb 26, 2011
bankbank:
boomstick1:

anyone know about CS?

As you said in your OP, CS Sponsors models deals for financial sponsor clients. CS Lev Fin also models, but for non-sponsor related deals.

do you happen to know if the exit opps into PE are good for CS Lev fin group?

Feb 18, 2011

Are you sure that BAML levfin models and not SPonsors M&A? What is the role of Sponsors M&A at BAML?

Feb 18, 2011

^ Sponsors M&A models.

Feb 20, 2011

bump

Feb 21, 2011

Would lateral movements from a nonmodeling lev fin group to IBD coverage be tought after a SA position + offer?

Feb 22, 2011

BAML? I've heard 10 different things, seems like nobody knows 100%

Feb 22, 2011

I know people from Citi levfin went to topshops ... that team is just a pricing team haha they managed to fool the funds...

Apr 3, 2011
pivot1990:

I know people from Citi LevFin went to topshops ... that team is just a pricing team haha they managed to fool the funds...

what do you mean fooled the funds

Feb 26, 2011

CS LevFin is very solid.

Mar 21, 2011

anyone else know how much modeling is done at the CS LevFin group and how the exit opps are into megafund PE?

Mar 21, 2011

UBS is legit.

just not in america.

and they would have been a lot better if the federal government just let them tax evade clients in peace

    • 1
Apr 3, 2011

FARTMAN RULES

2 AND A HALF MEN BOUTIQUES DON'T

Apr 22, 2011

bump

Apr 22, 2011

The banks with the largest balance sheets have the best LevFin teams:

For FY2009 (last year total completed)

  1. BAML
  2. JPM

MS/GS/Citi

http://www.leveragedfinancenews.com/data/high_yiel...

Apr 22, 2011
ibhopeful532:

The banks with the largest balance sheets have the best LevFin teams:

For FY2009 (last year total completed)

  1. BAML
  2. JPM

MS/GS/Citi

http://www.leveragedfinancenews.com/data/high_yiel...

Wait wait wait. Can someone actually pull the real data from last year? If you look closely, the link provided does NOT provide FY2009 league tables, but instead 1/1/2009 - 1/28/2009. Year over year for January is hardly indicative of the entire year.

1styearbanker caught this but said BAML was number 1 last year. 1styearbanker, Do you have a subscription to leveraged finance news? If so, can you post last year's numbers? It'd be great to get an idea of where everyone stood last year.

Apr 22, 2011

Please don't make me laugh about goldman. BAML is the best, and followed by JPM. Above poster is correct with his link and post.

2009 Rankings

  1. BAML
  2. JPM
  3. MS
  4. DB
  5. CS
  6. WF
  7. GS
  8. UBS
  9. Citi
  10. Barclays

2010 Rankings so far as shown by link above

US High Yield

BOOKRUNNER 1/1/2010 -1/28/2010
Proceeds (US$ Mil) Rank 1/1/2009 -1/28/2009

JP Morgan 2,084.3 1 681.9 2
Bank of America Merrill Lynch 1,983.4 2 1,056.6 1
Morgan Stanley 1,651.0 3 565.3 3
Goldman Sachs & Co 1,584.6 4 232.7 7
Citi 1,113.0 5 224.3 9
Credit Suisse 1,029.2 6 424.8 5
Deutsche Bank AG 969.1 7 499.1 4
UBS 648.6 8 - -
Barclays Capital 600.0 9 - -
Wells Fargo & Co 581.9 10 335.6 6

Apr 22, 2011

The most recent data is from only january 2010 so that is why JPM is first right now. Usually BAML is first as you can see from all of 2009. Judging data from 1 month is premature so just trust me that BAML is #1 in LevFin.
http://www.leveragedfinancenews.com/data/high_yiel...

Apr 22, 2011

It seems that exit opportunities, especially when aiming for top PE firms, are greatly influenced by the strength and prestige of the group that you're working in. That said, if you were working at BAML (and BAML's LevFin group is the best on the street) would the levfin group give you the best exit opps when compared to other groups at BAML?

Of course I understand this is a generalization and candidates are evaluated on a individual basis.

Apr 22, 2011

I know UBS's LevFin group is a combination of LevFin and Sponsors. Is there any other bank that does that? What does it mean for the Analysts in terms of how they work on deals?

Apr 22, 2011

UBS and WF are both like that, combining the FS/LevFin. Thanks for the link ibhopeful

Apr 22, 2011

from what I heard is that banks that combine their FS with LF means that they don't do enough business on their own so they combine the groups together. I know that DB has a stand alone Lev Fin group because they are extremely busy. On the contrary, they are busy because majority of the Lev Fin bankers were first to be let go last year so they just might be understaffed.

Apr 22, 2011

@openoutcry,

Good pointout. Unless you have a TR account, you cant pull the historical data. They update that table weekly, but if you'll take my word for it, it was:

1 BAML

2 JPM

3. MS

Apr 22, 2011

Thought it'd be great for the board to do a little digging. Just found the Q4 report and have posted it below. So interestingly enough, the rankings for last year aren't BAML,JPM, MS. Assuming we're only considering high yield, the table is below. MS is super low, and even the year before it was only #5. How are other people calculating this?

High Yield - http://img196.imageshack.us/i/4q09debtcapitalmarke...
1) JPM
2) BAML
3) Deutsche
4) CS
5) Citi
6) GS
7) MS
8) Wells
9) Barclays
10) RBS

TR 4Q09 Debt Capital Markets Review
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/1237/4q09debtcapi...
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/1237/4q09debtca...
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/732/4q09debtcap...
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/9986/4q09debtca...
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1237/4q09debtcapi...
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/5558/4q09debtca...
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1237/4q09debtca...
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/5181/4q09debtca...
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/5181/4q09debtca...
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1237/4q09debtca...
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1237/4q09debtcapi...
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1237/4q09debtca...
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/1237/4q09debtca...
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1237/4q09debtca...
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/1237/4q09debtca...
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/1237/4q09debtca...
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1237/4q09debtca...
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1237/4q09debtca...
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1237/4q09debtca...
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/1237/4q09debtca...

Apr 22, 2011

I posted what I remember, I don't have an account anymore.

Apr 22, 2011

wtf, baml isn't first. Must be wrong.

Apr 22, 2011
1styearBanker:

wtf, baml isn't first. Must be wrong.

you probably saw league tables from a different provider. they all vary anyways.

Apr 22, 2011

Openoutcry's list seems right, I'm surprised UBS is not replacing RBS though. Probably due to their FS office being disintegrated?

Apr 22, 2011

So Sponsors is the best group within these bulge brackets for PE? Why does everyone say M&A because I talked to my alumni at my target school and they all say sponsors and leveraged finance is much better than M&A for getting into PE.

Apr 22, 2011

depends on which bank. my old BB's industry/M&A groups did all the modeling/bank presentations and LevFin did execution only

my old BB and ML were on a $20bn LBO. i was the industry analyst for my bank and my analyst counterpart at ML was from ML levfin. while i was the one responsible for the model, it was levfin who was responsible for the model at ML.

Apr 22, 2011

If you get extensive LBO modeling experience, then I believe Sponsors/LevFin would be the best group for PE. M&A is an old favorite due to modeling experience, and is more general.

Apr 22, 2011

Why is there such a huge difference between outcry's list and banker/high yield's list?

Apr 22, 2011
Bravehart:

Why is there such a huge difference between outcry's list and banker/high yield's list?

he's showing rankings as reflected by 2010 YTD, so the past 30 days or so. I was looking at all of 2009.

Apr 22, 2011

Before all the uneducated unemployed idiots like moneykingdom come in here, let me add some value that isn't full of shit.

There are many different kinds of PE, some groups like TMT will place into tech oriented PE, some into healthcare oriented PE, and whatnot. If a coverage group does its own modeling, like GS, you'll even have GS TMT going into KKR/BX and other megafunds (GS TMT consistently sends the most to KKR, there is no comparison).

From a general approach, FSLF with good experience will be just as good if not better than M&A, but analysts from both groups depend heavily on deal flow and their experiences. Most importantly it depends on the bank. Some banks like MS M&A will obviously place better than MS LF, but BAML LevFin will place better than BAML M&A.

If you had to rank groups, which makes no sense since it depends on the bank and that bank's reputation, go for LevFin and M&A first. Then go for strong groups that your bank is known for. Then finally, go for DCM due to some modeling experience and if you have absolutely 0 choice left you will get stuck with ECM in which case you should reneg on the offer and go to a boutique.

Edit: I liked how the retard put in energy as #4. You're a joke.

Apr 22, 2011

Dear 1styearbanker (this is a joke in itself, but i digress...)

First of all, I am not unemployed, nor uneducated. In fact, I am formally educated at Cornell, and a former banker here in NY. Second, I work in PE, an area that you most likely will never get to interview in.

Second, DCM does almost NO modeling. Almost none. They provide market updates, and comps for the most part. I can describe this further if anyone would like...ECM is a joke, and should not be considered banking.

Third, Yes, different banks have different strong industry groups, however, some industry groups do not do a lot of inhouse modeling. This is why my rankings up at the top did not include every group, moron.

Fourth, you mentioned MS M&A... I worked there, and yes this is about the only point that you are correct on. Very good placement.

Finally, Energy is definetely number 4 because it is the most difficult industry to learn. Have you ever read a 10-k for an energy company? I worked in the M&A group and we COULD NOT even help them with their models, simply because we did not understand the industry, reserve reports, cash flow drivers, etc. EVERY ANALYST in my class who went to energy got great placement post-analyst stint. Even those in a 'regional' office. Please think before posting, first year banker.

Apr 22, 2011

Are you flame? Who the fuck cares about ecm/dcm, that's not my main issue with your post. You also fail to spell "definitely" correctly. I'm glad you worked in MS M&A but can speak for all energy bankers in that it is "the most difficult industry to learn".

Your ranking is shit and so are you. It's impossible to say M&A > LevFin which is what my whole issue with your post is. Learn to spell and maybe your post will have credibility.

I know you're a retard monkey so I will summarize my post for you below.

Summary: It's impossible to say whether M&A or LevFin is better for PE. It depends on the bank, the group's reputation, the experience the analyst gets, and dealflow. This is in stark contradiction to your post "No. M&A is the most desirable group for placement...by far." You are wrong. I am right.

Hope you are not retarded enough to understand this a second time. I would also love to see some of these links for your year's energy placement class. Care to share? Please link me to a megafund, I would really love to see what these energy guys are up to.

Apr 22, 2011

Sure, PM me and I will send you a screenshot of their placement, moron. Just off of the top of my head, I remember one analyst going to TPG, one analyst going to TriStone, one going to Apollo. I'll find the placement presentation. I love when people attempt to downplay the quality of a post based on its spelling. That is like judging an athlete by the color of his shoes, anyways... You, by your own account, are a FIRST YEAR BANKER. Again, you have not gone through recruiting, nor have you been 'placed', so think before you make assertions.

Here is a summary for you... M&A at most BB's is the most desirable group. LevFin USED to be just as desirable in the 2004-2007 days... just stating facts. Sure, any BB LevFin or Sponsors group will trump a middle market M&A group, but we are comparing apples to apples. Oh, also, these are generalizations... sure GS TMT probably places better than most M&A groups, but that is what we call EXCEPTIONS. Will a real banker please back me up?

Apr 22, 2011

My only quarrel with you is that you are so biased you refuse to understand that "exceptions" are huge. No one gives a shit about mid market either so stop bringing up random b.s. into this. Maybe you have a huge bias coming from MS but at banks like Citi and BAML, M&A is not definitively the best "by far" as you have stated. It is quite even and BAML LevFin is top on the street and gives much better exit ops on average than most other groups.

Also, it's hard to use search function of WSO on my phone but I found this this www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/my-thoughts-on-one-... stating that you left banking in 1 year and you're at a small pe. Sorry you work at a no name PE fund and couldn't cut it in banking broseph. I take shits larger than your pe firm. If you stayed longer than 1 year and didn't constantly bitch about your job maybe you would have gained more insight and maturity in banking. And yes I will need those links because I scoured the profiles of those funds and no one with an energy background showed up.

Peace out, my dinner break's over.

Apr 22, 2011

Hahaha...

Wow, you must take some large shits. This is why I love this forum. It is people like yourself, that entertain others, and for that, I thank you. Yeah, to be quite frank, MS M&A was awful. I was soo happy to be out of there. Oh just so you know, my bonus at my "little" fund, will be paid the first week of March and I guarantee you it will be more than your total comp. Hey if you enjoy banking so much, keep trucking at Robert Baird.

Apr 22, 2011

Interesting comments, 1styearBanker and MonkeyKingdom. Since it depends on the bank, what do you think about the groups at DB?
1) M&A
2) LevFin
3) Sponsors (separate from LevFin)
?

DB has historically had a pretty good LevFin team, but will the work in LevFin be very DCM-like, with market updates, comps, high yield trends etc? Between LevFin and Sponsors, where will I get good LBO modeling experience but still work on bank presentations?

Thanks

Apr 22, 2011
ft2010:

Interesting comments, 1styearBanker and MonkeyKingdom. Since it depends on the bank, what do you think about the groups at DB?
1) M&A
2) LevFin
3) Sponsors (separate from LevFin)
?

DB has historically had a pretty good LevFin team, but will the work in LevFin be very DCM-like, with market updates, comps, high yield trends etc? Between LevFin and Sponsors, where will I get good LBO modeling experience but still work on bank presentations?

Thanks

DB lev fin team doesn''t do DCM like work. Nor do most lev fin teams across the street unless they are awful. If you are going to DB and want better PE ops then lev fin will get you more exposure than M&A. Not saying this applies across all banks.

Apr 22, 2011

I still haven't gotten those links, what happened?

DB is weak for banking, but their best group is probably LevFin. Look at the rankings for proof. But it's like I said, it depends on dealflow and experience. No one is a psychic, you could have a horrible year in levfin or in M&A. No one foresaw how badly M&A got hit these past two years and it depends on the individual when looking at exit ops.

I mean look at mr. knowitall here, he's at a small no-name PE fund coming out from MS M&A. I'm sure even middle market kids do better than him. Why would you believe his M&A banter when he can't even land a MM pe fund coming from MS M&A. Sad I know.

My whole point is that it is impossible to judge because both M&A and LevFin are so modeling intensive and is exactly what PE firms look for. Sponsors/LevFin sometimes has an advantage from what I've seen because of the nature of the work and being the first line of contact for PE firms (financial sponsors). For many banks with reputable levfin (JPM, BAML), the FSLF group's analysts are the first choice for PE firms when they come recruiting.

So many kids don't even know what a financial sponsor is. Go wiki or dictionary it and you'll understand why that plus intensive modeling makes getting PE quite easy.

Apr 22, 2011

I would also love to see some of these links for your year's energy placement class. Care to share? Please link me to a megafund, I would really love to see what these energy guys are up to.

Here you go bro (posted on a different thread)

http://www.silverlake.com/employee.php?page=team&i... http://www.silverlake.com/partners/employee.php?pa...
http://www.silverlake.com/partners/employee.php?pa... http://www.silverlake.com/employee.php?page=team&i...

Those links aren't from last year's class, but for this year class, I heard GS Nat Res is sending a kid to Apollo and one to H&F.

on a sidenote, firstyearbanker, what's it like working at BoA as a transgendered individual?

Apr 22, 2011

Haha owned

Apr 22, 2011

can one of you please answer this question for me, does BAML have separate LevFin and sponsors groups, or are they just one group combined?

Best Response
Apr 22, 2011

Tothedeath are you fucking retarded? Those are all Goldman Sachs and all the links are to one PE firm. I can find GS anything at any fucking megafund, including FIG and energy which pidgeonholes anywhere else. Monkey and I even discussed this since GS TMT and other groups DO THEIR OWN MODELING+M&A+LevFin+EVERYTHING ELSE so Goldman Sachs is the obvious exception.

Goldman Sachs FIG is in megafunds too, does this mean FIG is also #1? How about Healthcare? They're in megafunds too from Goldman Sachs. I guess Healthcare group is also #1. Oh wow let's all link 4 Ex-Goldman Sachs employees at the same fucking silverlake firm. Let's base EVERYTHING in investment banking off Goldman Fucking Sachs. According to Goldman Sachs, all groups are #1 since every group has an analyst in a megafund. That makes a lot of fucking sense doesn't it thank you for clearing that up.

You must be retarded.

    • 2
Apr 22, 2011

Oh I get it now, you didn't read the thread at all you simply wanted to plug in how great Goldman Sachs is. Well dont' worry we all know it is the bees knees.

//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/GS-accelerated-interview

Another retarded college kid who knows nothing. You're also not very smart, you've pretty much outed yourself as a GS SF fulltime analyst in the sponsors group. Not many of those this year.

Apr 22, 2011

hey 1styear, do you know if BAML has separate sponsors and LevFin groups? do you know what the major differences in work between these two groups are, assuming they are two separate groups and not one consolidated group? Thanks.

Apr 22, 2011
youngblood:

hey 1styear, do you know if BAML has separate sponsors and LevFin groups? do you know what the major differences in work between these two groups are, assuming they are two separate groups and not one consolidated group? Thanks.

They're two separate groups.

Apr 22, 2011

They're separate groups, that's all I'm going to say. Some aholes tried to out me by asking me questions through PM so I won't be responding to specific group inquiries anymore. The difference has already been discussed, run a search.

Here's a site http://gmi.ml.com/invest_bank/

    • 1
Apr 22, 2011

Haha, 1styearbanker is on a roll!

To answer your question about why I couldn't land a big name fund such as KKR, Apollo, CVG, Warburg, Carlyle, etc, is for two reasons: a) I was leaving my analyst program early, and b) I was tired of working 90+hours a week. For your information, if you go to a mega-fund you are likely to work just as much as an IB analyst, the exact reason I got out of banking... Does this make sense to you, you know the whole 'cause and effect' thing. Probably not, but I'll move on... Plus I work about 65 hours a week. You really can't beat that.

Good luck on your exit opps from Robert Baird or PiperJ, or RayJay, or whatever boutique you work at.

Apr 22, 2011

Does every thread have to become a flamewar? It was such a helpful thread too until halfway through.

Apr 22, 2011

does anyone know if LevFin is part of DCM at any of the BBs? Thanks

Apr 22, 2011

Thanks for the opinions related to DB. Despite the length of this thread, I'm not clear what the difference between LevFin and Sponsors is, relating to the type of work. I understand Sponsors is more involved with client (PE firm) interaction, so presumably they do more of the presentations, such as working on a detailed company profile for a company they are recommending the PE firm to acquire.

So then, what type of work do LevFin bankers do? Will LevFin do more of the LBO modeling once a PE firm has expressed interest in a target? What will LevFin do besides working on the model for a PE LBO?

How does the work differ between LevFin and Sponsors?

Thanks

Apr 22, 2011
ft2010:

Thanks for the opinions related to DB. Despite the length of this thread, I'm not clear what the difference between LevFin and Sponsors is, relating to the type of work. I understand Sponsors is more involved with client (PE firm) interaction, so presumably they do more of the presentations, such as working on a detailed company profile for a company they are recommending the PE firm to acquire.

So then, what type of work do LevFin bankers do? Will LevFin do more of the LBO modeling once a PE firm has expressed interest in a target? What will LevFin do besides working on the model for a PE LBO?

How does the work differ between LevFin and Sponsors?

Thanks

FS is an industry team (bad phrase, I know, but they do work akin to industry teams: keep relationships, source deals, etc.). LF is a product team (a la M&A) and the work they do depends on the bank and there isn't really a set formula. Some banks have merged their lev fin and FS teams into one, so at the analyst level the work is pooled.

Just my 2c.

Apr 22, 2011

1styearbanker, can you comment on CS M&A versus FS?

Apr 22, 2011

Yes, the LevFin (now called Non-Investment Grade) group at WF is part of DCM

Apr 22, 2011

1styearbanker is a turd

dude stop wasting your time

Better watch your ass

Apr 22, 2011
nervous_nelly:

Yes, the LevFin (now called Non-Investment Grade) group at WF is part of DCM

Not true. Sponsors and LevFin are not part of DCM at WF and they are under the special group. DCM is its own group.

See: https://www.wellsfargo.com/downloads/pdf/careers/C...
Also the two groups recruit seperately. DCM works with LevFin but is not LevFin.

Apr 22, 2011

I never said the Sponsors group was part of DCM. However, the Loan Syndications and High Yield Capital Markets Group is also called DCM and is an umbrella group that includes Mid-cap Sponsors and Non-Investment Grade loans which used to be LevFin back in Wachovia days.

Apr 22, 2011

nervous_nelly is correct.

Apr 22, 2011

Correct but since the merger FS have done a lot of the LevFin. It is not accurate to simply say DCM = LevFin because like you said, DCM is an umbrella group. The two even have different groups and floors.

https://www.wellsfargo.com/downloads/pdf/careers/C...
Financial Sponsors: Originates LevFin, M&A, and equity transactions.
DCM: Too long to type.

Apr 22, 2011

Right, DCM does not equal LevFin; the Non-Investment Grade Debt Group WITHIN DCM does. It's kind of complicated. FS as a group is more relationship building/management. As stated, it originates LevFin (like any coverage group) but the DCM product group is responsible for actual execution.

Apr 22, 2011

I agree it's very complicated but Sponsors is not the traditional coverage, they do a lot of modeling and have very good exit ops on the street. One of the guys who exited at a top 50 PE by size according to wiki was from Sponsors and did a lot of modeling as well.

Apr 22, 2011

I apologize for my ignorance, but in a PE deal, what's the point in the PE firm and IB LevFin group both making lbo models? Whose model is eventually used?

Apr 22, 2011

Both models are used... you show different cases (base case/sponsor case and etc...)

Apr 22, 2011

They don't both do models. It depends on the bank, but typically financial sponsor groups are used to execute the debt financing for sponsors, whereas lev fin does leveraged loans and high yield bonds for corporates and acquisitions

Apr 22, 2011

Bump, does anybody know for BAML specifically? Is the LevFin group more of a modeling intensive, LBO, acquisition financing role or does it take more of a capital markets role?

Apr 22, 2011

I just explained this in a different thread.

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/group-select...

Apr 22, 2011

save

Apr 22, 2011

Please share your knowledge about the dynamics of JPM, MS, GS, DB and UBS.

Apr 22, 2011
pivot1990:

Please share your knowledge about the dynamics of JPM, MS, GS, DB and UBS.

yes, share what you know with the rest of the board. don't just leech.

and give me SBs for answering your question in previous post. haha

Apr 22, 2011

I heard CS pretty much has a combined LevFin/Sponsors group, and that they are #1 on the street in that arena.

Apr 22, 2011
jc100021:

I heard CS pretty much has a combined LevFin/Sponsors group, and that they are #1 on the street in that arena.

CS Lev Fin and Sponsors are separate groups, with Sponsors being #1 on the street. Lev Fin is also a solid group at CS, but not on par with the likes of JPM and BAML.

Apr 22, 2011
jc100021:

I heard CS pretty much has a combined LevFin/Sponsors group, and that they are #1 on the street in that arena.

CS has a Sponsors group and a separate Lev Fin group. However, the Sponsors group is basically a Lev Fin group and does all the LevFin product work for Sponsor clients (e.g., LBOs and refinancings for Sponsor portfolio companies). The separate Lev Fin group does sub-investment grade financing and restructuring work for corporate clients (i.e., not Sponsors and not Sponsor portfolio companies). So in the Sponsors group at CS you will be doing LBO financing for KKR/BX/etc. In the CS Lev Fin group you will be doing high yield financings for companies that aren't owned by sponsors but have a lot of debt.

Apr 22, 2011

+1 on Pivot's note, would like to hear your insights into the banks you know about...

Apr 22, 2011

I've heard C's LevFin group is more of a terms/pricing function, with a lot of the modelling done in industry groups. Could be wrong.

Apr 22, 2011

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on JPM, MS, GS, DB and UBS as well.

Apr 22, 2011

LevFin:

Don't know about JPM. Obviously strong group but don't know about modelling per se.

MS = within GCM = terms/pricing/comps. Ind. groups do 'heavy lifting'.

GS = within Financing = same style as MS.

DB --> strong.

UBS --> FSLF is technically two separate groups now but at jr. level you are cross-staffed and has very good placement into megafunds and other top PE.

Apr 22, 2011
analystforhire:

LevFin:

Don't know about JPM. Obviously strong group but don't know about modelling per se.

MS = within GCM = terms/pricing/comps. Ind. groups do 'heavy lifting'.

GS = within Financing = same style as MS.

DB --> strong.

UBS --> FSLF is technically two separate groups now but at jr. level you are cross-staffed and has very good placement into megafunds and other top PE.

For someone who wants to do IBD FT, would a SA internship at a firm like MS or GS lev fin be a bad thing? thinking primarily about PE exit ops from full time.

Apr 22, 2011

.

Apr 22, 2011

How about GS/MS SPonsors?

How about DB sponsors?

How about Citi SPonsors?

I know a guy in Citi LevFin he said they don't do any modelling... and I know a few guys from Citi Levfin who managed to get into BX...

I guess because it is so vague and unclear people just lie about their modelling experiences and their team and the brandname / team it self will give you interview so you can do the actual modeling at home?

Apr 22, 2011

It seems like no one on this website really knows if BAML, JPM, MS, and DB lev fin model or not, jeez.

Apr 22, 2011

Any BB except UBS can get u into a megafund if u got connects and luck.

however, the best LevFin teams are the ones that model, Citi and CS are not one of them.

JPM is king.

Apr 22, 2011

Based on what I know--admittedly not a lot--DB, BAML, and JPM do substantial modeling.

Apr 22, 2011

More info on BAML anyone? Does LevFin or Sponsors do most of the modeling? I've heard its largely based on the MD who brings in the deal.

Apr 22, 2011

is it the same for JPM (as they also have separated FSG and LF) ?

Apr 22, 2011
dezilerua:

is it the same for JPM (as they also have separated FSG and LF) ?

Answer this

Apr 22, 2011

Citi lev fin does not do any modeling, all done out of their sponsors group (called financial entrepreneurs) or industry group. They do more pricing/terms/conditions/market color etc. stuff

Apr 22, 2011

I confirm the situation at Citi. It is just pricing. I confirm the same for GS and MS LevFin.
GS/MS don't have sponsors group in London so I guess their modelling is done in industry groups.

Please answers this for JPM and ML levfin and sposnors anyone?

Seperately isn;'t it funny, we established lots of differences among teams so even if you are in a pricing comps levfin team such as GS/MS/CIti you can lie to Megafunds about your modelling skills as nobody knows anyways....

Apr 22, 2011
pivot1990:

I confirm the situation at Citi. It is just pricing. I confirm the same for GS and MS LevFin.
GS/MS don't have sponsors group in London so I guess their modelling is done in industry groups.

Please answers this for JPM and ML levfin and sposnors anyone?

Seperately isn;'t it funny, we established lots of differences among teams so even if you are in a pricing comps levfin team such as GS/MS/CIti you can lie to Megafunds about your modelling skills as nobody knows anyways....

modeling is just accounting (situation specific accounting based on the type of transaction) in excel. when you interview at PE firms they will ask you accounting questions and they will ask you IRR questions or ask you to do hypothetical, simple LBOs on a piece of paper or in your head. then they will give you a case study or modeling test in which you will have to build an lbo model from scratch. if you don't know accounting well and don't have experience with models, it will show.

you are already going to write on your resume that you did all sorts of models for every transaction type, regardless of whether you really did or not. that's not going to get you the job unless you're at a market top and the competition for PE associates is really tight (like it was in 2007). there will always be a few kids who slip through and get jobs without knowing how to model really well, but they are exceptions.

Apr 22, 2011

How are you going to lie to megafunds in your interview? You either know how to model or you don't.

Apr 22, 2011

These days learn how to do modelling is even easier with BIWS packages... WSP packages etc..

Now please don't divert from the original question...

How is LevFin & Sponsors split at JPM and BAML? Anyone?

Apr 22, 2011

Bump?

Apr 22, 2011
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