6/16/12

Hey guys,
I'm a 22 yro recent NYU (not Stern) grad. I only had one offer lined up at graduation but the employer cut back and sent out an email to all of us saying we won't be starting until September. And that's fine as it gives me more time to decide. The job is in accounting for $52k in new york.

But I've been day trading for the last 4 years and on average I make about $8000 a month doing that. I wasn't able to land a trading gig due to my grades. If I take a full time job, I won't have time to commit to day trading. And frankly, I suck at long term investing so I NEED to keep my eyes on the screen all day long.

My parents are against doing this because for one thing, they said profits are not guaranteed each year and there's no social prestige out of this so they want me to take the full time corporate job.

And as a social thing - what the hell would I tell people? That I make a living doing something I was toying around for fun back in my dorm room? Just the other day I told an alum at a conference that I'm "an independent trader" and he's like "huh? not enough luck in the job market nowadays huh? yeah, it's tough." i kid you not!

so what now fellow monkeys?

Comments (117)

6/15/12

PROP SHOP

Financial Modeling

6/15/12

how consistent were you in making $8,000 a month in trading?

6/15/12

There is not logical reason if your making that much every month that you haven't been applying to prop shops. If you have the records to prove it I guarantee you that a prop trading shop will take you on. If not, who gives a shit? Your making 8 grand a month. Market yourself with that as your focal point, that your able to deliver out sized returns in the market. Of course that depends on your capital base.

6/15/12

congratulations on making 8000 a month....twat

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

6/15/12

How much money are you working with? $8000/month is amazing, if you started with <$20k. But, I mean, if you started with like $100k+, your performance wouldn't be nearly as remarkable.

6/15/12
Downeasta:

How much money are you working with? $8000/month is amazing, if you started with <$20k. But, I mean, if you started with like $100k+, your performance wouldn't be nearly as remarkable.

it wouldnt?

mmmm ok.

This coming from someone who actually day trades during downtime and have returned 70% in 6 months on one portfolio.

6/15/12
redherring:
Downeasta:

How much money are you working with? $8000/month is amazing, if you started with <$20k. But, I mean, if you started with like $100k+, your performance wouldn't be nearly as remarkable.

it wouldnt?

mmmm ok.

This coming from someone who actually day trades during downtime and have returned 70% in 6 months on one portfolio.

No, it wouldn't. 8k/month, if you start with 100k, is 8% return per month. That's not exactly groundbreaking.

Best Response
6/15/12
Downeasta:
redherring:
Downeasta:

How much money are you working with? $8000/month is amazing, if you started with <$20k. But, I mean, if you started with like $100k+, your performance wouldn't be nearly as remarkable.

it wouldnt?

mmmm ok.

This coming from someone who actually day trades during downtime and have returned 70% in 6 months on one portfolio.

No, it wouldn't. 8k/month, if you start with 100k, is 8% return per month. That's not exactly groundbreaking.

Are you a fucking idiot?

6/15/12

typed the words right out of my fingertips

jos.a.bankhard:
Downeasta:
redherring:
Downeasta:

How much money are you working with? $8000/month is amazing, if you started with <$20k. But, I mean, if you started with like $100k+, your performance wouldn't be nearly as remarkable.

it wouldnt?

mmmm ok.

This coming from someone who actually day trades during downtime and have returned 70% in 6 months on one portfolio.

No, it wouldn't. 8k/month, if you start with 100k, is 8% return per month. That's not exactly groundbreaking.

Are you a fucking idiot?

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!

6/15/12
Downeasta:
redherring:
Downeasta:

How much money are you working with? $8000/month is amazing, if you started with <$20k. But, I mean, if you started with like $100k+, your performance wouldn't be nearly as remarkable.

it wouldnt?

mmmm ok.

This coming from someone who actually day trades during downtime and have returned 70% in 6 months on one portfolio.

No, it wouldn't. 8k/month, if you start with 100k, is 8% return per month. That's not exactly groundbreaking.

Wow. Post of the year.

6/15/12
Downeasta:
redherring:
Downeasta:

How much money are you working with? $8000/month is amazing, if you started with <$20k. But, I mean, if you started with like $100k+, your performance wouldn't be nearly as remarkable.

it wouldnt?

mmmm ok.

This coming from someone who actually day trades during downtime and have returned 70% in 6 months on one portfolio.

No, it wouldn't. 8k/month, if you start with 100k, is 8% return per month. That's not exactly groundbreaking.

I'm assuming you do better than that in your own account? If 8% a month isn't great, I'm curious what is?

6/15/12
Addinator37:
Downeasta:
redherring:
Downeasta:

How much money are you working with? $8000/month is amazing, if you started with <$20k. But, I mean, if you started with like $100k+, your performance wouldn't be nearly as remarkable.

it wouldnt?

mmmm ok.

This coming from someone who actually day trades during downtime and have returned 70% in 6 months on one portfolio.

No, it wouldn't. 8k/month, if you start with 100k, is 8% return per month. That's not exactly groundbreaking.

I'm assuming you do better than that in your own account? If 8% a month isn't great, I'm curious what is?

I don't day trade, so no, I don't do better than 8%/month. I'm not putting the OP down at all, I'm just asking how much capital he's dealing with. I ask because most college students don't have much cash to play around with, so if he DID start with a smaller amount, it'd be that much better. If not, 8%/month is still good returns for 100k-range, just not at the same level of badassery as if he was only working with 20k-range.

6/15/12
Downeasta:
Addinator37:
Downeasta:
redherring:
Downeasta:

How much money are you working with? $8000/month is amazing, if you started with <$20k. But, I mean, if you started with like $100k+, your performance wouldn't be nearly as remarkable.

it wouldnt?

mmmm ok.

This coming from someone who actually day trades during downtime and have returned 70% in 6 months on one portfolio.

No, it wouldn't. 8k/month, if you start with 100k, is 8% return per month. That's not exactly groundbreaking.

I'm assuming you do better than that in your own account? If 8% a month isn't great, I'm curious what is?

I don't day trade, so no, I don't do better than 8%/month. I'm not putting the OP down at all, I'm just asking how much capital he's dealing with. I ask because most college students don't have much cash to play around with, so if he DID start with a smaller amount, it'd be that much better. If not, 8%/month is still good returns for 100k-range, just not at the same level of badassery as if he was only working with 20k-range.

I don't think you're understanding any of this. Nobody is making 8% of anything. The OP said he AVERAGED $8,000/month since he began trading. He started four years ago. That means that since he started trading he has made $384,000 in profits. Even if he started with $100,000, that is an impressive rate of return for a kid in college. We could assume that, with access to more capital, the ability to leverage his moves, and a better platform, that he could potentially increase his performance. He could also not perform and be out of the industry in a year with nothing. Regardless, his current streak is impressive.

6/15/12
craigmcdermott:
Downeasta:
Addinator37:
Downeasta:
redherring:
Downeasta:

How much money are you working with? $8000/month is amazing, if you started with <$20k. But, I mean, if you started with like $100k+, your performance wouldn't be nearly as remarkable.

it wouldnt?

mmmm ok.

This coming from someone who actually day trades during downtime and have returned 70% in 6 months on one portfolio.

No, it wouldn't. 8k/month, if you start with 100k, is 8% return per month. That's not exactly groundbreaking.

I'm assuming you do better than that in your own account? If 8% a month isn't great, I'm curious what is?

I don't day trade, so no, I don't do better than 8%/month. I'm not putting the OP down at all, I'm just asking how much capital he's dealing with. I ask because most college students don't have much cash to play around with, so if he DID start with a smaller amount, it'd be that much better. If not, 8%/month is still good returns for 100k-range, just not at the same level of badassery as if he was only working with 20k-range.

I don't think you're understanding any of this. Nobody is making 8% of anything. The OP said he AVERAGED $8,000/month since he began trading. He started four years ago. That means that since he started trading he has made $384,000 in profits. Even if he started with $100,000, that is an impressive rate of return for a kid in college. We could assume that, with access to more capital, the ability to leverage his moves, and a better platform, that he could potentially increase his performance. He could also not perform and be out of the industry in a year with nothing. Regardless, his current streak is impressive.

I used 8k/month as a scenario involving 100k capital for clarity's sake, not because I thought 8%=8K or something. Now that it's been explained, I see why 8% a month is a good return. Also, I agree: regardless of everything else, he's made a BUNCH of money and should be proud of it.

  • Anonymous Monkey
  •  10/14/15

8% a month is really good. thats 96% a year. some would argue its not realistic and one is lying. If you start with $20,000 and trade with $100,000 in margin then 8% is 40% on your money per month. 480% per year. Redonkulous!!

4/30/16

its easy you just have to be smart enough

2/4/15

Downeasta:

redherring:
Downeasta:

How much money are you working with? $8000/month is amazing, if you started with <$20k. But, I mean, if you started with like $100k+, your performance wouldn't be nearly as remarkable.

it wouldnt?

mmmm ok.

This coming from someone who actually day trades during downtime and have returned 70% in 6 months on one portfolio.

No, it wouldn't. 8k/month, if you start with 100k, is 8% return per month. That's not exactly groundbreaking.

WTF

Fortes fortuna adiuvat.

2/4/15

Downeasta:

redherring:
Downeasta:

How much money are you working with? $8000/month is amazing, if you started with <$20k. But, I mean, if you started with like $100k+, your performance wouldn't be nearly as remarkable.

it wouldnt?

mmmm ok.

This coming from someone who actually day trades during downtime and have returned 70% in 6 months on one portfolio.

No, it wouldn't. 8k/month, if you start with 100k, is 8% return per month. That's not exactly groundbreaking.

WTF

Fortes fortuna adiuvat.

9/23/16

troll of the year by Downeasta? or jusst a dumb under grad ... this comment deserves its own thrread .

I jerk off to the idea of 8.0% returns a month .. no joke .. did it twice while typing this

5/20/17

Annualise that man. Lol

1/29/15

Are you fucking high? If you start with 100k and end the year at 196k that's pretty fucking impressive. I don't even care that this post was two years old.

6/15/12

If you're a profitable trader and document the results, a prop shop WILL pick you up. Prestige for its own sake is worthless. Document your trading activity and start contacting prop shops immediately.

Get busy living

6/15/12

No. Am I missing something?

6/15/12

8% returns a month is not groundbreaking? that doesn't make any sense.

6/15/12

Go ask your boy Paulson if he'd take 8% a month haha.

I hope you're still in high school and / or haven't taken a finance / investments class yet.

6/15/12

And yes, I'm quite aware that 8% on 500k or 8% on 100k is "equal". That being said, I feel that it's easier to see those kinds of returns if you have a larger amount of money to work with.

Edit: I'm a rising sophomore CS major, so I don't have much experience with trading. If 8% is really a great return, then I've learned a lesson.

6/15/12
Downeasta:

And yes, I'm quite aware that 8% on 500k or 8% on 100k is "equal". That being said, I feel that it's easier to see those kinds of returns if you have a larger amount of money to work with.

Edit: I'm a rising sophomore CS major, so I don't have much experience with trading. If 8% is really a great return, then I've learned a lesson.

8% a month, compound it.
What would be his annual return then?

8k on 1 billion is not impressive at all, but we (or you) talking about percentage here. 8% could be any number depending on your capital, you know?

6/15/12
Do what I gotta do:
Downeasta:

And yes, I'm quite aware that 8% on 500k or 8% on 100k is "equal". That being said, I feel that it's easier to see those kinds of returns if you have a larger amount of money to work with.

Edit: I'm a rising sophomore CS major, so I don't have much experience with trading. If 8% is really a great return, then I've learned a lesson.

8% a month, compound it.
What would be his annual return then?

8k on 1 billion is not impressive at all, but we (or you) talking about percentage here. 8% could be any number depending on your capital, you know?

Right. Which leads back to my original question: how much capital is he working with?

9/1/16

Yikes, OP never said she/he made 8% a month! It said $8000. Get the fact people! I don't care if this was post 4 years ago!

6/15/12
Downeasta:

And yes, I'm quite aware that 8% on 500k or 8% on 100k is "equal". That being said, I feel that it's easier to see those kinds of returns if you have a larger amount of money to work with.

Edit: I'm a rising sophomore CS major, so I don't have much experience with trading. If 8% is really a great return, then I've learned a lesson.

8% a month is 252% a year.... if you are using his $8,000 on 100k.

So 252k or go for 52k base salary isnt answer obvious. Granted there are risks.... but you better redefine methodology and make sure you got some edge

6/15/12

Well, again, you're wrong. How about 8% on a billion? The more capital you have, the harder it is to garner returns. Hence, why small time / day traders have a distinct advantage over large hedge funds in terms of overall return percentages.

6/15/12
redherring:

Well, again, you're wrong. How about 8% on a billion? The more capital you have, the harder it is to garner returns. Hence, why small time / day traders have a distinct advantage over large hedge funds in terms of overall return percentages.

Gotcha. When I said that, I wasn't thinking of amounts that high. Would it almost be a bell curve, with regards to returns vs capital used?

6/15/12
Downeasta:
redherring:

Well, again, you're wrong. How about 8% on a billion? The more capital you have, the harder it is to garner returns. Hence, why small time / day traders have a distinct advantage over large hedge funds in terms of overall return percentages.

Gotcha. When I said that, I wasn't thinking of amounts that high. Would it almost be a bell curve, with regards to returns vs capital used?

You're a total dummy.

-MBP

6/15/12

I actually agree, 8% on 100,000 isn't that imperssive if you are prop trading.

Financial Modeling

6/15/12

8%/month doesn't tell me everything. What is your leverage and what kinds of betas are you looking at.

If it's working for you, keep at it. Live frugally and see if you can earn 8%/month with $200K, $300K, $400K, etc.

6/15/12

so what now..get your ass a job..i don't care if you make $8000 a month if you can't take some of it out for living expenses.

"If I take a full time job, I won't have time to commit to day trading"

that and the markets will be closed

6/15/12

8% per MONTH I'd argue is impressive on ANY capital base...assuming you have consistently done that with minimal variation for year.

6/15/12

Don't pick a career path for "social prestige". I almost can't believe your parents said that to you. There are thousands of ways to make real money and contribute to the world other than doctor, lawyer, investment banker.

6/15/12
Virginia Tech 4ever:

Don't pick a career path for "social prestige". I almost can't believe your parents said that to you. There are thousands of ways to make real money and contribute to the world other than doctor, lawyer, investment banker.

Haha becoming an investment banker for "social prestige?" My parents borderline think that I'm a sociopath for wanting to pursue finance. I thought the overall consensus of bankers was nothing comparable to that of doctors and lawyers and was in most cases negative. I'm from Michigan though so things may be disparate on the east coast.

6/15/12

-

6/15/12

Saying you make 8k/month doesn't mean anything without also knowing how much capital you're investing and how much risk you're taking. It's all about maximizing your Sharpe ratio, not just making the maximum dollar return - that's not hard to do if you have a ton of capital or take a ton of risk.

6/15/12

It all depends on how big OP's portfolio is and how consistently he can average the 8k/month

Just because he averages 8k a month doesn't mean he banks 8k a month, he could make 50k off one big trade in a week and be set for half the year

6/15/12

Wow $8000 a month as a college kid is sick. Maybe if you delayed the accounting gig for a little and kept looking for trading jobs you could show them more of your results.

Either way you're making bank bro.

6/15/12

Economically, it makes more sense to turn down the accounting gig b/c ~$8000 a month would be 72k annually and your accounting job would only net 52k. Personally, I'd turn down the accounting job and wait it out for trading interviews. It seems like you're better at it anyway.

How'd you even get an accounting job if you didn't study it in NYU Stern? Did you self-study?

6/16/12
blackjack21:

Economically, it makes more sense to turn down the accounting gig b/c ~$8000 a month would be 72k annually and your accounting job would only net 52k. Personally, I'd turn down the accounting job and wait it out for trading interviews. It seems like you're better at it anyway.

How'd you even get an accounting job if you didn't study it in NYU Stern? Did you self-study?

the fuck kinda math is this?

-MBP

6/16/12
manbearpig:
blackjack21:

Economically, it makes more sense to turn down the accounting gig b/c ~$8000 a month would be 72k annually and your accounting job would only net 52k. Personally, I'd turn down the accounting job and wait it out for trading interviews. It seems like you're better at it anyway.

How'd you even get an accounting job if you didn't study it in NYU Stern? Did you self-study?

the fuck kinda math is this?

Probably after tax...assuming 25% tax rate.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

6/16/12
manbearpig:
blackjack21:

Economically, it makes more sense to turn down the accounting gig b/c ~$8000 a month would be 72k annually and your accounting job would only net 52k. Personally, I'd turn down the accounting job and wait it out for trading interviews. It seems like you're better at it anyway.

How'd you even get an accounting job if you didn't study it in NYU Stern? Did you self-study?

the fuck kinda math is this?

6/16/12
manbearpig:
blackjack21:

Economically, it makes more sense to turn down the accounting gig b/c ~$8000 a month would be 72k annually and your accounting job would only net 52k. Personally, I'd turn down the accounting job and wait it out for trading interviews. It seems like you're better at it anyway.

How'd you even get an accounting job if you didn't study it in NYU Stern? Did you self-study?

the fuck kinda math is this?

It was a brain fart. You get my point though.

6/16/12
blackjack21:

b/c ~$8000 a month would be 72k annually

Where the fuck did you learn math? I hope to God your screenname isn't indicative of any sort of serious interest in counting cards

5/1/16

^This.

Keep it together and you will go far..

6/18/12
blackjack21:

Economically, it makes more sense to turn down the accounting gig b/c ~$8000 a month would be 72k annually and your accounting job would only net 52k. Personally, I'd turn down the accounting job and wait it out for trading interviews. It seems like you're better at it anyway.

How'd you even get an accounting job if you didn't study it in NYU Stern? Did you self-study?

8k a month would be how much annually?

6/15/12

Sure, but the accounting job has a much lower beta. You aren't out of a job if there is a financial crash.

Don't overlook the benefits of the CPA put. If you spend two years in accounting, you can always go back to it if there is a financial crash or the markets change.

6/15/12

I hate it when I return 8% per month. Please don't make fun of me for not doubling my money each week :(

6/15/12

What is a good website for day trading?

The Four E's of investment
"The greatest Enemies of the Equity investor are Expenses and Emotions."- Warren Buffet

6/15/12
kmess024:

What is a good website for day trading?

Scottrade.com and just watching the market. Try to figure out why prices are moving the way they move. If you can understand what happened, you might be good at this.

I did well from 2004-2008 following a supply-constrained demand growth market and making bets on energy and resources. If you're a malthusian, you tend to walk into these kinds of markets with a big road map of what industries are efficient with energy, which ones aren't, and how to make money.

That road map doesn't help you when we are now in a supply-growth demand-constrained market like today. I think the question today is who has money, who will have money in the future, and who can get people with money to spend it.

Oil derricks, pipelines, railroads, utilities are all very simple, sensible businesses. They are very easy to understand. The overleveraged middle-class consumer who goes out and buys a $700 cell phone on credit is something that I can't understand very well. Hence why I don't day-trade anymore. The folks who can understand that consumer right now will do well for the next few years I think.

6/15/12
IlliniProgrammer:
kmess024:

What is a good website for day trading?

Scottrade.com and just watching the market. Try to figure out why prices are moving the way they move. If you can understand what happened, you might be good at this.

I did well from 2004-2008 following a supply-constrained demand growth market and making bets on energy and resources. If you're a malthusian, you tend to walk into these kinds of markets with a big road map of what industries are efficient with energy, which ones aren't, and how to make money.

That road map doesn't help you when we are now in a supply-growth demand-constrained market like today. I think the question today is who has money, who will have money in the future, and who can get people with money to spend it.

Oil derricks, pipelines, railroads, utilities are all very simple, sensible businesses. They are very easy to understand. The overleveraged middle-class consumer who goes out and buys a $700 cell phone on credit is something that I can't understand very well. Hence why I don't day-trade anymore. The folks who can understand that consumer right now will do well for the next few years I think.

+2, thanks for the excellent advices

if i may ask, i am genuinely interested in trading and have been trying it out (day trading) and educating myself for a while, but only on a noob level (virtual money)

since i have chosen the IB way (at least so far, mostly because i think that i can learn the most in the IB and that it is the best bet given my current circumstances) and have couple of BB IBD internships, do you think that i could also trade a bit this summer and which exchange could i pick?

i will be interning at a BB (ft = 40h/week although on some days more for sure)
i live in the GMT+1 (central europe) time zone and will be working usually 8am-6pm

weekends are mostly free, but i guess that i cant benefit from that?

p.s. scottrade is a great tool, but i think that i cant register since im in europe

any advice which website would be good for europe?

6/15/12

OP, can you hire me as an intern?

6/15/12

Don't mean to be an ass, but I think you mean 152%/year.

6/15/12
IlliniProgrammer:

Don't mean to be an ass, but I think you mean 152%/year.

Clearly... ;) The final end # OP would have is $251,817. That's probably where that % came from.

MM IB -> TMT Corporate Development

6/16/12
IlliniProgrammer:

Don't mean to be an ass, but I think you mean 152%/year.

haha yes. I got a bit lazy and just calculated FV.

6/15/12

I know someone who started Day trading with 100k and turned it in to 15 million over the course of about 10 years. He shorted stocks in large volume but the SEC killed his style of trading a few years back. Fast forward to 2008 and the recession, he had most of his money invested in real estate and lost almost everything. Now he has no way of getting an actual job in Finance because he has no legitimate work experience. He always says he wishes he had just taken a normal job because at this point he would be worth likely the same amount but with a much brighter future.

1/29/15

Not to take a shot at your buddy, but if that story is actually legit, I feel like he'd have more than a chance of nailing something down somewhere. He may have no "real" work experience, but he's got something much better...investing experience.

"When you stop striving for perfection, you might as well be dead."

6/15/12

A 52K per yr. accounting job coming out of NYU... damn that is shitty, coulda saved 100k and went to Baruch lmao

6/15/12

A few things you need to consider. You need to look at the products you're trading and ask yourself whether the strategy that you're using is scaleable. Also whether you can handle trading in a market what no volatility. Also know that you're going to blow up/have down years at some point in your career. So if you can handle the stress from any of these factors why not continue to trade?

If you get just a few setups a day/week, why not work on automating your system and then take the accounting gig?

6/15/12

Do you live near Chicago?

6/15/12

You should just day trade and crash weddings forever bro

I was taught that the human brain was the crowning glory of evolution so far, but I think it's a very poor scheme for survival.

6/15/12

For you rookies, let's not get the idea that more capital = easier returns. It actually becomes harder to outperform the markets with too much AUM.

6/15/12
chicano8119:

Hey guys,

But I've been day trading for the last 4 years and on average I make about $8000 a month doing that. I wasn't able to land a trading gig due to my grades. If I take a full time job, I won't have time to commit to day trading. And frankly, I suck at long term investing so I NEED to keep my eyes on the screen all day long.

so what now fellow monkeys?

do you mind telling me on which base? or simply, use percentage

number doesnt mean anything (although 8k/month is nice for you)

i cant give you an advice if you are making 8k per month...
based on what you wrote i would advise you to invest your time in the accounting career

however if you are getting nice % per month, you could go that way or try some prop shop if you have records of your trades

6/15/12

You might want to specify on how much capital you work with. But im going to assume you didn't inherit millions. If you started with very little, no one on this forum is worth your time. You should be out there starting a firm, or soliciting investors. Seriously 8k a month at age 22 day-trading is crazy impressive!! Social image and prestige should be the last thing you worry about.

Some of these comments are ridiculous, 8% a month? Not impressive?! What bubble are you living in?

6/15/12

I suggest you to take the position wile developing an "end of the day" trade strategy. Rise capital for the next ten years or so, while you gain experience. I quit my last job a few years a go because I started to get good profits on the Forex but that was some sort of lucky trades; soon or late bad trades will come and you have to be prepared for those. Hope my comment helps! :D

6/15/12

I would say investment banker is pretty prestigious, hence why half the Ivy League chooses it as a career path, at least early on.

6/16/12

i averaged 46.5 percent a year net of my commission and leverage.. what prop shops did u apply to?

6/16/12

OP, I'd continue trading while pounding the pavement by reaching out to equities prop shops. Some firms to consider are: Trillium, First New York Securities, Schonfeld, RBC ProTrading Group, Tower Hill Trading, Chimera Securities, Grace Hal Trading, World Trading Securities.

Indeed, this is an unconventional path, but so are your returns so who gives a flying fuck about what people think. In the meantime, try and find a prop firm who can seed you to trade remotely.

shorttheworld:

i averaged 46.5 percent a year net of my commission and leverage.. what prop shops did u apply to?

Market Wizard...

6/16/12

To hell with social prestige. What is that? Congrats on your success! If you have documents to prove it, apply/network NOW to get into a prop shop.

They WILL hire you!

6/16/12

got a serious laugh from this read

6/16/12

Wow OP, your parents have read too much WSO... social prestige? really? I envy the guy making 100k a year working as his own boss more than I envy people making 100k working for somebody else

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough.

"There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

6/16/12

I wouldn't take the accounting job. Keep looking for other jobs, while you day trade. There's no reason to take that accounting offer. Seriously, I don't know what background you come from, but accountants/CPAs have no prestige.

The greatest asset your trading has given you is time to pursue a full time job that you really want. You have no reason to "settle" and just take whatever was thrown your way. Fuck your parents and everyone else's point of view, it's your life and you're the only one who has to live it.

And to all the people saying 8% a month is nothing: You've clearly never traded or invested.

6/16/12
LiquidDreams:

I wouldn't take the accounting job. Keep looking for other jobs, while you day trade. There's no reason to take that accounting offer. Seriously, I don't know what background you come from, but accountants/CPAs have no prestige.

The greatest asset your trading has given you is time to pursue a full time job that you really want. You have no reason to "settle" and just take whatever was thrown your way. Fuck your parents and everyone else's point of view, it's your life and you're the only one who has to live it.

And to all the people saying 8% a month is nothing: You've clearly never traded or invested.

This is so true. This guy is already a professional trader and he hasn't even been hired as one yet. I say, screw accounting. Do trading and jump on a prop shop ASAP.

6/16/12

Lots of jealous haters who haven't done shit are criticizing the OP. How cute.

6/16/12

Good advice from some folks. But let's face facts IP is the most risk-averse person on earth. Likewise most prospective banking kids are beyond risk-averse as well. I always thought that is why people do banking because they are risk-averse.

I have a couple friends who have done what you are doing. Their parents ain't happy and it will be tough for them to switch to anything after except a prop firm (which is harder than said). But what many people are missing on here is there is a big OC to taking the accounting job. My friend is his own boss, he makes his own algorithms and strategies, he sets his own office hours, he has extreme freedom. Yet with all this freedom, 4/5 nights a week he will not go out late because he knows he has to be up early to read all the news before open, he eats super healthy because he needs to be alert at 2pm for those big market moves when the algos goto war. Even with all this freedom is more disciplined than most young people in finance because if eating what he kill and loves it truly, every day is a challenge he loves and enjoys. Compare this to all the people who whine on here about their jobs or any prospective CPA does not come close. I do not know how to value this in $$$, but someone else could try.

I think the fears of 2008 repeating is over exaggerated. No one today is that leveraged (no one sane). In 2008 most traders were all in because they had 2004-2007, I would easily take a 2008 if we had a 2004 before it. Also most people still came out of 2008 overall on top just depends how much they saved along the way.

6/16/12

i don't understand how you're consistently making 8k / month... what is your return and why isn't your monthly take increasing if you're so good at this?

6/16/12
Spalding Get Your Foot Off the Boat:

i don't understand how you're consistently making 8k / month... what is your return and why isn't your monthly take increasing if you're so good at this?

There could be plenty of reasons. Smart traders don't tie up %100 of their money in trades. You know, so the INEVITABLE bad trade(s) doesn't wipe you out. Completely reinvesting all your profits is why you see myriad stories of traders ending up broke. Yeah, they were up for a while. But, at the end of the day, they have nothing to show for it.

6/16/12

@Liquid Dreams - i'd agree that it's not wise to tie of 100% of capital to any one strategy. Having said that, assuming OP has decided to allocate x% of his capital to his strategy (known as a contant-mix asset allocation), his ongoing monthly returns should still be increasing significantly.

To clarify your second comment, It should be noted that reinvesting profits is different than allocating capital to one strategy - for example his profits could be reinvested into lower risk investments. I'd avoid saying that reinvesting profits causes losses unless you want to be much more specific.

6/16/12

I say keep trading for the next year, sign up for the CFA level 1 and study after the markets have closed and you have set up your trades for the next morning. Then re-evaluate in a year...did you stay profitable? did you pass the CFA level 1 which may open more doors for you.

Passing on $52k a year is not crazy. In a year from now you may have stayed profitable, developed some good trading strategies, properly recorded your trades and passed the CFA level 1...that will give you a good leg up.

6/16/12
damn.analyst:

I say keep trading for the next year, sign up for the CFA level 1 and study after the markets have closed and you have set up your trades for the next morning. Then re-evaluate in a year...did you stay profitable? did you pass the CFA level 1 which may open more doors for you.

Passing on $52k a year is not crazy. In a year from now you may have stayed profitable, developed some good trading strategies, properly recorded your trades and passed the CFA level 1...that will give you a good leg up.

CFA and trading have nothing to do with one another.

Competition is a sin.

-John D. Rockefeller

6/16/12
Hooked on LEAPS:
damn.analyst:

I say keep trading for the next year, sign up for the CFA level 1 and study after the markets have closed and you have set up your trades for the next morning. Then re-evaluate in a year...did you stay profitable? did you pass the CFA level 1 which may open more doors for you.

Passing on $52k a year is not crazy. In a year from now you may have stayed profitable, developed some good trading strategies, properly recorded your trades and passed the CFA level 1...that will give you a good leg up.

CFA and trading have nothing to do with one another.

I agree. But, it is a good resume builder while he sits at home and trades. He's still gotta look active if hes not gonna be at a traditional 9 to 5 job. Its better than taking an acctg job and drop trading all together.

6/16/12

Oh yea - and by starting your career in accounting you will black ball the sh*t out of yourself. there's nothing bankers hate more than accountants in my experience

6/18/12
Spalding Get Your Foot Off the Boat:

Oh yea - and by starting your career in accounting you will black ball the sh*t out of yourself. there's nothing bankers hate more than accountants in my experience

He wouldn't blackball himself and it seems like he would be looking for trading / HF roles, not banking.

6/16/12

off-topic but OP could you tell us how you got started trading, what sites/books you read, etc.?

definitely stick to this

6/17/12

IF you are for real, then you should do the following:

1) Keep doing what you have been doing for the last 4 years.

2) Live modestly, make a budget & stick to it, and save as much as you can.

3) Supplement income by teaching wanna-be day traders how to trade. I would suggest a 3-5 day trading bootcamp conducted at night for 2-3 hours. Charge each student $995. Do this once a month and take on 3 or 4 students at a time. Bam, an extra 3-4K a month! There's your steady paycheck and prestige- you are now an investing consultant.

4) Network like a motherfucker and get a job as a trader.

NOW having said all that....Am I missing something? How come none of the commenters here have called BS on the OP. Does anyone actually believe this is for real? I don't, and I assume no one else does either, we are all just suspending disbelief kinda like when you watch Inception so as not to ruin the fun of playing along with the story (I mean c'mon, how can they tap into each other's dreams through an IV?!?)

If I'm being a total asshole by calling OP out then feel free to dowse me in monkey poo, but this is at best a lame humblebrag and at worst total BS.

"Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst. Capitalize on what comes."

6/17/12
TEX:

IF you are for real, then you should do the following:

1) Keep doing what you have been doing for the last 4 years.

2) Live modestly, make a budget & stick to it, and save as much as you can.

3) Supplement income by teaching wanna-be day traders how to trade. I would suggest a 3-5 day trading bootcamp conducted at night for 2-3 hours. Charge each student $995. Do this once a month and take on 3 or 4 students at a time. Bam, an extra 3-4K a month! There's your steady paycheck and prestige- you are now an investing consultant.

4) Network like a motherfucker and get a job as a trader.

NOW having said all that....Am I missing something? How come none of the commenters here have called BS on the OP. Does anyone actually believe this is for real? I don't, and I assume no one else does either, we are all just suspending disbelief kinda like when you watch Inception so as not to ruin the fun of playing along with the story (I mean c'mon, how can they tap into each other's dreams through an IV?!?)

If I'm being a total asshole by calling OP out then feel free to dowse me in monkey poo, but this is at best a lame humblebrag and at worst total BS.

Totally agree. Very unusual returns. And the OP yet to comment on anyone.

6/17/12

Making 8k a month daytrading is awesome. As for what you should do, it all depends on where you want to be in a couple of years. Working as a trader at a bank/propshop gives you the opportunity to learn more and have some colleagues to bounce your ideas off. I think that if I would daytrade I would miss discussing the markets. But you could also rent a desk at a daytrading firm or just share your trading room with a buddy. Regardless, I would not take the accounting job, sounds boring. :-)

6/18/12

Is everyone here a troll? wtf is going on?

http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/breakoutboard...
How about 3457% in 1 yr in 2009.

Relax

6/19/12

Another Troll....Where do you get your research? How do you get ideas? Don't tell me you do everything yourself because their is no way on G-d's green earth that you find diamond in the rough each morning.

Eventus stultorum magister.

1/29/15

Johnny Ringo:

Another Troll....Where do you get your research? How do you get ideas? Don't tell me you do everything yourself because their is no way on G-d's green earth that you find diamond in the rough each morning.

Why is this so hard to believe...because you say it is? It is possible to make a profit trading, you know.

"When you stop striving for perfection, you might as well be dead."

6/23/12

I have gone down this path, let me lend some advice. I started out at a bulge bracket after undergrad but was cut rather quickly in the recession so have been trading my own account at an arcade-style prop shop for the past four years. The money I made trading was on par or better than what I'd be making at a bank (with a much better tax structure). It has been great...I have tons of free time, I have spent 18 months abroad, I have more flexibility than any of my friends, own a condo/cars, go out whenever I want, etc. I studied for the CFA level I in my free time but got complacent with the money I was making trading so didn't pursue level II.

However, I have no network, no real skills outside of self-taught programming, and no real career. I am trying to break into a serious prop shop or HFT firm but lack the technical skills/degree and corporate experience. My track record is useless due to the fact that I trade my own money. Attracting external funds is extremely difficult, especially without an audited track record. And the market changes so often and so drastically at times, that your next month's/year's profits are never guaranteed. I have lost half of my net worth on at least two occasions throughout the years and have had to deal with some heavy amounts of stress (which I have seen consume and end about 70% of the traders I have worked with over the years). I always thought that if I failed at trading, I could just go back and get an MBA -- an MBA is useless in trading nowadays, and I would be better off going back for a comp. sci degree.

Social prestige outside of finance is completely fine, most people think I am a market wizard. Peers in finance have mixed reactions; most top tier companies think I am a laughing stock, others find the ability to make money consistently wholly impressive. The only reason I still get interviews now is because of my university, my GPA, my coding ability (which is terrible), and the prestige of the bulge bracket I was at. None of it has to do with my trading ability. Many guys have expressed the fact that they'd change the prestige of working at a bank or HF for the flexibility I have, where I am finding that I would rather give up my freedom to have that prestige now (this is in hindsight of course, after four years of doing whatever I wanted 24/7). At the end of the day though, money talks. If you have it/earn it, it shuts most of the haters up.

6/24/12
intradayarb:

I have gone down this path, let me lend some advice. I started out at a bulge bracket after undergrad but was cut rather quickly in the recession so have been trading my own account at an arcade-style prop shop for the past four years. The money I made trading was on par or better than what I'd be making at a bank (with a much better tax structure). It has been great...I have tons of free time, I have spent 18 months abroad, I have more flexibility than any of my friends, own a condo/cars, go out whenever I want, etc. I studied for the CFA level I in my free time but got complacent with the money I was making trading so didn't pursue level II.

However, I have no network, no real skills outside of self-taught programming, and no real career. I am trying to break into a serious prop shop or HFT firm but lack the technical skills/degree and corporate experience. My track record is useless due to the fact that I trade my own money. Attracting external funds is extremely difficult, especially without an audited track record. And the market changes so often and so drastically at times, that your next month's/year's profits are never guaranteed. I have lost half of my net worth on at least two occasions throughout the years and have had to deal with some heavy amounts of stress (which I have seen consume and end about 70% of the traders I have worked with over the years). I always thought that if I failed at trading, I could just go back and get an MBA -- an MBA is useless in trading nowadays, and I would be better off going back for a comp. sci degree.

Social prestige outside of finance is completely fine, most people think I am a market wizard. Peers in finance have mixed reactions; most top tier companies think I am a laughing stock, others find the ability to make money consistently wholly impressive. The only reason I still get interviews now is because of my university, my GPA, my coding ability (which is terrible), and the prestige of the bulge bracket I was at. None of it has to do with my trading ability. Many guys have expressed the fact that they'd change the prestige of working at a bank or HF for the flexibility I have, where I am finding that I would rather give up my freedom to have that prestige now (this is in hindsight of course, after four years of doing whatever I wanted 24/7). At the end of the day though, money talks. If you have it/earn it, it shuts most of the haters up.

Respect. It takes a real man to admit this.

9/1/16

So...whats stopping you from branching out once you accumulate loads of money? Or diversify in brick and mortar business with that money? Or stop fooling around with the market when it's against you and just chilled out for a while till your strategy works again? Or go to any school of your choice for further study and pay full tuition once you had that much money?

7/4/16

wrg

6/25/12

Great thread, lol

There's probably only been like 3 intelligent posts so far, the rest were pure comedy

6/26/12

Hmmm... Its pretty weird how few people here are skeptical.

8k or 8%, within normal risk taking standards, is definitely strong to say the least. And if you were doing this for a considerable length of time, then you would certainly have known trading was your 'thing' and you would have been looking at every prop shop/BB under the sun. With your track record, you would have deffffintely gotten something besides accounting.

And also, did I read that you took CS in school, but going to work as an accountant?

Dont know if its me being a skeptic (as many traders are), but your story seems a bit "troll'y"

"Sounds to me like you guys a couple of bookies."

9/1/16

question, how do you keep your trade secrets if you have to expose your strategy to Pro shop and what not for back testing?

6/27/12

Two comments from a professional investor (I make a real living from it):

(1) If you are really making $8k / month on a regular basis, and have a demonstrable track record with strong returns (1-2% per month consistently for several years) then please PM me. I will give you a list of places you should talk to about a job provided your track record holds up to diligence (i.e. your trading strategy survives back-testing), and will help you present yourself to the PM teams in an effective way; in this case an accounting firm is probably not the best place for you.

(2) Anyone on here who can honestly tell me that they believe a consistent 8% per month is NOT good return need to stop wasting their time and everyone else's time on here and take a basic fiance course.

Aside from a few very rare investments (i.e. once in a lifetime venture capital and distressed deals) 8% per month is, for all practical purposes, impossible. The best professionals, who trade or deal in the most sophisticated strategies generally strive to generate 20-30% per annum, which adjusting for compounding is approximately 1.5% - 2.2% per month. Sometime it is possible to achieve these returns, other times it is not. One of the best PE funds I have ever seen (it has long since matured) produced a ~60% annual return over a 10 year period, this is PHENOMENAL, but monthly returns were certainly not consistent (PE is lumpy cash flow) AND this is still ONLY 4% per month.

11/10/12

good going

1/30/15

Who the hell thinks a corporate accounting gig is prestigious? Tell your parents to get on your level.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

2/2/15

Mother of god if this OP isn't full of shit, which if you were really making that much trading your own account I find it highly unlikely you would really feel the need to ask this question at all because the answer is right before your eyes.

On the off chance the OP is not lying: Fuck prestige, if you have to choose prestige over money which many people unknowingly do every single day (and pay a premium for it), use your noodle and choose money. Would you rather be a small fish in a big prestigious pond or a big fish in a less prestigious pond who makes twice as much money?

Also, like other people said, prop shops.

2/3/15

so much monkey shit I need to take a shower

Make Idaho a Semi-Target Again 2016
Not an alumnus of Idaho

4/30/16

okay i am day trader to and I make a little more than you on average. Just wanted to say
RULE NUMBER 1 : FUCK WHAT THEY SAY
enjoy your money just dont forget to make some smart investment like a house. I am sure you also know when you have the right formula you make easy money but discipline is the key

6/14/16

If you're making 8k trading, why would you wanna start working for someone else? You'll have less freedom and you'll allow other to manage your time for you.

Why is it so important for you what you can tel other people? When someone asks what you do for a living just say you a trader. It's not even a lie.

I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing.

See my Blog & AMA

6/14/16

Never Happened.

9/9/16

I believe that you took the right decision, if you are earning by sitting at the comfort of your home and earning more than what you can earn in job.. than there should be no problem for others.

5/11/17
5/20/17
5/28/17
6/23/17
5/20/17
6/25/17
Add a Comment