I wanted to know how good are chances for converting your SA to FT ? I am contemplating to complete my degree in Summer 2009. So if i manage to get into SA class of 2009 is it possible to join FT analyst class of 2009?
Thanks
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so they only have a certain no. spots for FT hires and a certain no. spots for their SA hires.
If they fill up their FT class and SA class, they wouldn't have another desk just waiting for you. You'd have to wait your turn as the previous class finishes up so you can get a seat at the table.
I really doubt it. If you are at a smaller bank or working in a smaller office maybe, but most large banks are looking for reasons to either not hire, or delay hiring analysts. Perhaps if some of the current analysts jump ship or something, then there will be a void to fill, but these days people with jobs are happy the have them and are staying put.
Percent of interns that get full time offers (Originally Posted: 07/02/2007)
About what percent of summer interns in S&T get full time offers?
The industry average is and has always been exactly 86.84%.
GS: 45.64% MS: 91.34% CS: 62.44% UBS: 49.65% OMG: 32.32% PLZ: 55.24% USE: 22.94% SEARCH: 34.41% U:88.98% RETRD: 99.99%
hahahaha
most
Been discussed. Do a search.
SA to FT this summer (Originally Posted: 06/09/2010)
What is the expected % of SA's that will get FT offers this summer in the BB banks considering the economic outlook? Are some groups looking to hire more than others? ( M&A vs. DCM vs. TMT for example) Thanks
78.264%
some less than others: gs e.g
Around 80% from what I've read.
Bout tree fiddy
this is awesome
SA -> FT in current market conditions. (Originally Posted: 04/01/2008)
Given the existing market conditions, to what capacity do you guys feel that this will impact firms' position to hand-out FT offers to SAs?
It will probably improve your odds actually. They already are committed to paying and investing in the SAs. So better to offer most/all of the FT jobs to summers rather than spend more money for FT recruiting. Outside of the top targets, where they need to keep a good relationship, I seriously doubt many people will get even interviews for FT tis fall.
Agreed with gomes. By using last year's FT recruiting as a guide (I did not go through it, but friends of mine did) - a number of places didn't interview outside of the SA's they hired.
Yeah, I know for sure Lehman did almost no hiring outside of their SAs, but they are a little different because they have 2 classes of SAs and thus twice as many kids to pick from, so it made more sense. But across the board, the banks pulled back the number of interviews and offers outside of SAs, and that was just at the start of the downturn. Q1 & Q2 M&A was very, very strong, and only right during recruiting (August-October) did the market start to cool off rapidly.
SA to FT offers Stats (Originally Posted: 11/10/2011)
Does anyone know the general numbers of summer associate to full-time offers at the major players in ER? I hear about 50%, but I'd like to see some concrete numbers. (e.g., GS took x amount of interns, and gave out x offers.) Thanks so much!
Not sure about the sell-side shops, but on the buy-side, Fidelity made 0 offers out of 4 to the Boston interns. One guy got an offer for Hong Kong, and a sophomore who's interning there got an offer to return next summer. The previous year, I think 2/6 got offers. Not sure if this helps - Fido is pretty notorious for being very, very selective on whom they hire.
Source: A school alum within FMR.
from internship to full time (Originally Posted: 12/04/2007)
hi, i just wanted to know what percentage of summer analysts get full time offers??
depends on the firm and the division. I think IBD percentage is usually fairly high.
if you search, you'll find many threads on this issue.
hmm...credit suisse IBD???
74.876%
74.786%
Seriously, its usually quite high. As in, as long as you're not a big screw up you get an offer. This upcoming year, who knows, but that was the past.
it was about 60% at my bank this year, but they over-hired for the summer
The latest batch of summer interns definitely had a lower conversion rate than in 2006. I am a personal example (GS summers and no offer) and I wouldn't regard myself as too much of a screw-up! Just go give your best shot and hope it works out. Not everything is in your control.
SA to FT Conversion (Originally Posted: 03/14/2008)
From what I've heard about the BB, the general consensus is that you go into a SA position with the FT spot as yours to lose. Is this pretty much the case? I know some people mention exceptions (i.e. GS), but this seems to be the general gist.
have a good attitude, work hard and you should be ok
i talked to an ex-SA from a BB IBD and he said the Asia BB IBD office only gave about 1/3 of the SA's a FT offer, and that was in the good times of 2006.
also, do you guys think the downturn in the markets will affect the SA to FT conversion rate, given that SA class is probably the same in good or bad times, but FT will probably be cut down? and will the markets affect London/NYC/HK conversion rates differently?
SA-->FT (Originally Posted: 02/10/2013)
Know this is probably group and bank specific, but what's the general feeling about converting summer into FT offers for those who have done it? Broadly speaking, does it feel like its "yours to lose" or something you need to compete to get?
Obviously I understand its something you need to earn, but wondering if its more of a don't mess up thing or a go above and beyond thing.
It's impossible to make a generalization about this. It not only varies from bank-to-bank, but also from group-to-group. There are a bunch of threads more specific to groups and firms.
"Obviously I understand its something you need to earn, but wondering if its more of a don't mess up thing or a go above and beyond thing."
Like the above poster said, it's really hard to generalize. There are numerous factors, including the bank, the group, the timing of the market (if the market starts dropping, you can be sure that offers won't be handed out as frequently, and if the market goes all bull on everyone, then the bank may decide that it needs more bodies, even if they're not all top bucket interns... whatever that means).
In general, you can gauge this by just asking someone you trust in your group about how many converted into FT last year, and you can ask why some people didn't get offers to return. It's a perfectly acceptable question, but it never hurts to be a little discreet about who you talk to.
SA to Full Time Converstion Chances???? (Originally Posted: 04/12/2008)
Now that things are looking so bad. What are the chances that a good number of summers will be able to convert our summer opportunity to a full time job?
A question that was also raised today when talking to a buddy is why wouldn't the banks just hire some of these first and second years that are floating around out there jobless who can start immediately and actually know what they are doing and can add value right away in stead of hiring some of us from the summer class who are really inexperienced?
1st year analysts fresh from summer are cheap.
I don't know why people worry so much about their chances of getting a return offer. Simply put, if you work your ass off, add value to the firm, and get along with the people you work with, you'll probably get a return offer.
Now, if you're working for Company X and they pull a Bear Stearns in the fall, you probably won't.
my friend who is going to join JPM this summer as an SA said that because of the bear fallout their deal teams are larger and thus it means less conversion. in addition, the anticipated writedowns in 08' would further exacerbate the FT conversion rate.
Do NOT worry as an SA. You've got a better shot than anyone else. Imagine if you didn't get an SA position. Your chances next year as a FT are much slimmer (they always have, but more exaggerated this year).
Conversion rates were always very high. As long as you didn't screw up, worked hard and were well liked, you got a job. This year, it will be a bit harder, but I would expect SA classes to be smaller this year, and the conversion rates to remain high.
In general, about what % of SA get FT offers? (Originally Posted: 03/21/2012)
For those of us really hoping to get a job out of the SA opportunities at banks (I'll be at a MM) in various divisions like structured finance, acquisition finance, and ECM etc around what % get return offers?
I've heard around 50% is this true? How can you maximize your chances?
about 53.3333333%
donkey punch all your MDs
Typically, it is about 2/3 or 3/4 of the interns. Basically, if you do a decent job and don't seem incompetent, then you will get an offer. Those who do not get offers either don't expect the long hours and can't live with them or the ones who know nothing about finance and don't care to learn anything more.
When you say that they don't expect the long hours, how do they react to them? I mean, how is it shown that they didn't expect the hours?
keep a good relationship with all the ppl there
be the 1st there in the morning + be the last there at night + never ask for overtime pay = you get the ft offer
Never ask for overtime pay? Being in first and leaving last would mean you would do at least 15-20 hours overtime during the week. Is it looked down upon to log those hours even though you were given an overtime pay rate?
i think it depends on the bank too. I know bmo gave about 85-90% of their interns FT offers last summer.
one of the most important questions bankers ask when deciding which summers get offers--which hasn't been mentioned here--is which ones are we 100% certain will accept the offer to return. in my group we tried to make sure all the great summers got full time offers, but for the okay/good summers, commitment to return went a really long way.
In general, across all banks, I'd say most end up with offers
SA to FT Conversion Rate Unchanged? (Originally Posted: 03/25/2009)
Banks hired much smaller SA pools this year. Does that mean this year's SA to FT conversion rate won't change that much?
I think its going to be much higher. They selected more carefully so that they don't have to do FT recruiting much. Last year was a bloodbath at some firms.
Rev: Just out of curiosity, what info are you basing your opinion on SA-FT conversion rate off?
Good news for this year's SAs. I think that people who get into banking now have nowhere to go but up. While the best time to get into an industry is when it's down (provided that industry is going to be around for the long term), it is also, sadly, the hardest time to get in.
I'm with Revsly. recruiters at the firm I'm working for said the same thing
Talking to HR Reps (where I'm working specifically), SA from last class who got offers, people on the desks currently.
Think about it this way, last year offer rate could be as low as 30% (that I know of), but that was because they had a pretty big SA class as the recession wasn't as full blown.
This year, classes have shrunk what, about 50% or so compared to last year. They still have about the same needs as last year in terms of FT, if not more based on the firms projections of economic recovery. All things considered, its not too difficult to see that offer rates should be up for SA classes (though of course things could change in the future).
scared they'll find out how much of a douche bag you are?
what a pathetic loser.
anyway, yes, i agree with you guys that SA to FT conversion rate might actually go up this year...hopefully ;)
Which BBs have high FT offer rates for IBD SA class? (Originally Posted: 06/14/2011)
Hey everyone,
I have used the search function but most of the topics that have come up are relevant to pre-fin crisis. I was wondering if anybody who has interned at some of the BBs ( excluding GS since they have low offer rates) recently or works there could kindly elaborate on the FT offer rate for the SA IBD class at their banks?
I know there are topics on the dos and don'ts of a SA but just wanted to get a general view on how high/low the percentage is at BBs like ( Citi/JPM/CS/BAML)
Thanks a ton guys!
summered at a Citi/CS/BAML, and IBD FT conversion rate was through the roof. when people said it's yours to lose, it honestly was.
off the top of my head, everyone got an offer except someone who flat out lied about their ECs and was pulled at the start of the internship, a kid who was arrogant beyond belief, and a few others who just honestly weren't good/bad attitude/no idea what was going on.
totally i think only 5-8 people probably didn't get offers.
Are SA positions exclusively for juniors? If a senior does one, how long until they start FT (assuming they get offered)?
I'll be a senior, but will only have my university's investment fund experience and a boutique PWM internship I'm doing right now. I'll apply to both SA and FT and will take whatever comes
got a PM regarding advice to convert an SA to FT, thought it might be helpful if i post it here. there are lots of threads on this, a few really good ones in the last few weeks by star users (dos and donts of SA, the one regarding whether to come in on the weekends or not) but from my experience, just be normal.
go in, work hard, especially on stupid little things you think have no value. think about it this way, if you can't put together a PIB without making mistakes, why should someone give you a chance on a model? everything, whether consciously or unconsciously, is being scrutinized as you establish a reputation.
just be hard working, but at the same time relaxed.
SA to FT - Percentage of SA class at BB offered FT? (Originally Posted: 03/16/2011)
What percentage of a SA class at BB's are usually offered positions for FT? Specifically in AM(IM), but IB and S&T would be good to know too.
totally depends on the bank.
i only can speak for IBD but it can be anywhere between 30% to 90% or in cases even less. this is really depending on the year, the job hr has done in sizing the group, deal flow and and and.
tough to pinn down a number as it could be anything ( I have seen as low as 30% and heard of as high as 90%) though these are arguably some outliers.
30%? That would suck...
depends on the bank really
JPM, Citi, CS, and others known to extend offers to / take the majority of their incoming 1st yrs from SA (75%+ offer rate); even more so at some elite boutiques
Don't remember for the other BB's
And GS notorious for giving low offer rates (30-40%)
Asset Management from what I've seen is a little trickier. It's usually a smaller class and many don't get the offer until weeks/months after they've finished their internship. Getting a FT offer is more based on need and the discretion of the members in your group/fund. Good luck
40-60% dependent on group performance, need, and individual performance
i think most banks are higher than this. the bank im working for this summer has been known to be 75%+
Honestly I've been told 80-90% by a MD...that's obviously on the high end, but this aint meant to be a competition...
Thanks everyone! It seems there is a large range... I was told around 80% and just wanted to see what others thought. I was also told as long as you don't screw up badly then you should have no problem getting a FT offer at this point.
Your objective should not be to "not screw up badly" but rather to work your ass off! They want to hire someone who will stay with the firm and not leave after 2 years like most people. Show them you mean business: you'll be on better the with the higher-ups and have a better chance of moving up. Anyone can get a job at a BB, very few can succeed.
?
Citi's official thing on efinancialcareers says 60%, but completely depends on the year the group and the product area is having.
Summer Analyst to Full time (Originally Posted: 03/04/2007)
What percentage of summers are extended full time offers at the end of the summer? My perception is that if you work hard and play nice, you'll get a full time offer.
Depends on firm. i don't know figures, but from what i've heard, Lehman and Citigroup give many of their interns full time offers while Goldman gives relatively fewer full time offers to interns (as a percentage).
Would love to hear more thoughts on this though, as I'm not completely sure.
I would say it's really hard not to get a full time offer. You have to be really dumb or have a horrible attitude to not get an offer. I also don't know numbers, but out of my SA class, I would say about 80% got offers.
I interned at a non-top 3 BB (think Deutsche, Bear Stearns, UBS) and everyone who really wanted to come back got an offer. I believe it wound up being 90-95% of the IBD interns got offers. If you try hard and have a positive attitude you'll be fine.
Seems to be the Street standard.
Similarly, anyone I know from Goldman's been offered at the end.
conversion rate intern to full time
UBS
2005 45% 2006 45%
depends on your team..
Sometimes its also group dependent. Some groups weed out their interns a little more.
UBS is notorious for not converting market interns. They take in large numbers and pick the best performerse.
I think IBD is different when looking at interns - the guys in the intern class are capable its just a case of seeing can they hack the hours.
If they can bring them back!
is that for firm wide offering summer interns a full time position, or is the 45% just for 1 segment of UBS?
What Percent of SA's get FT offers? (Originally Posted: 02/23/2008)
I am curious as to what percentage of SA's get FT offers once their summer stint is up? Any thoughts?
search search! it varies by firm/group
I think it really does depend on the bank. I know that Citi and Lehman definitely don't hire all or even most of their SAs back. I think for Citi, it was something like 25%...Other banks are different in that they hire fewer SAs, so those people will, for all intents and purposes, get a FT offer assuming they do well. Just do well in your internship and you'll be taken back.
why do people make these ridiculous statements? 25%? this isn't Blackstone.
citi is in the 80-90% range, Lehman is solidly in the 90-95% range.
25 percent is brutal odds! I always thought that assuming you didnt mess up and everyone liked you, you would be offered a full time spot
It's considerably higher than 25%...
SternMonkey's right, it's considerably higher for 25%. In fact, I hear that Lehman is KNOWN for hiring a majority of its summer analysts.
Anyone familiar with GS SA hiring rate?
At a JPM presentation I attended, the number is around 80%.
This is what lehman had to say about hiring their SA. They told us that you start the summer with a ft offer and it is yours to lose. So as long as you do well over the summer, you should get an offer.
of course it depends on the quality of the SA, but this is the impression i got from talking to people and from observation:
(these are approximations)
JPM - 90%+ lehman - 85% UBS - 80% Merrill - 75% goldman - 55% Citi - 20% (but this was due to what's been going on in the econ)
I do admit that I am seriously wrong about Lehman. Sorry for the scare guys.
This absolutely is not true, how its guaranteed how many SAs will get offers. It all depends on the personnel needs of the desk, which dictate to HR who won't be hired. Let us remember that the DESK, not HR or those running the SA program, decide what percentage get offers.
This is another example of the rumors circulating on this board, many of which are uncorroborated.
Which BB has the highest rate of giving summer interns full time offers? (Originally Posted: 05/23/2008)
Plx comment thanks!
I think Lehman has the highest. Normally 90%+.
no it is UBS , take your offer to UBS , I am sure you will get an offer there.. 95%+
I'm fairly certain Lehman has the highest.
The offer percentage will be down a bit this year due to market conditions, but it should still be fairly high.
So does anyone know the offer rates of the big banks in general? Which BB has the lowest?
From what I understand, Goldman does. Although, regardless of where you go, your shots of getting a job offer are pretty high.
And I don't know if graduate24 was being sarcastic, but do NOT go with UBS. I don't know anything about their offer rate, but it's highly possible that they will lose their investment banking unit.
yeah, he's also wrong about GS, at least in London, no way they make a high rate of offers, many people have told me it is one of the hardest place to convert from SA to FT
aloki has no idea what he/she is talking about concerning UBS IBD
Offer rates last year are not indicative of this years rates. Last year a much higher percentage of interns signed with the company they summered with due to the upheavel in the markets, which made it difficult and not politically astute to shop around or wait on an offer too long.
Historically, Leh has highest ratio and GS lowest.
i think ibanker07 is pretty spot on, but regardless i think most banks are north of 75% so work hard and dont fuck up and you should be ok
disclaimer, this could change dramatically due to mkt conditions but i really have no idea
Joe I am sure many assume that it is hard but I believe that they give offers on an ad hoc basis - for my class it was not that hard! 3 out of 5 of our UK M&A interns were made offers - but only 1 accepted.
Lehman in the UK is similar to the NY office in that the majority of the interns are made full time offers. However I have heard that the offers are lowballed and the salaries are not equivalent to the rest of the city!
In terms of toughest in the UK I have heard that MS is a beast and that they only make FT offers to interns that are uber impressive.
joefish knows nothing about anything.
joe....baby...that response was for which had the lowest rate.
So what do you do? -I work for an investment banking firm. Oh okay; you are like my brother, he works for Edward Jones. -No, a college degree is required in my profession
Odds of FT offer to start immediately after SA position (Originally Posted: 01/26/2011)
What are the odds of getting a FT at the end of a SAssoc position?
Given: -completed first year of MBA -was already working FT job (non-finance) and going to school at the same time
Is it common for some to go directly into FT from a SA spot?
It can be negotiated and I've seen it done but it's by no means a common occurrence.
yep it happens, you might be able to negotiate something half way through during the summer. let them know your plans and if they offer you a spot you might go directly into ft from sa
thx for the replies. I figured its a possibility.
I know that the traditional method for MBAs is to intern the summer prior to graduation, then go back in the following summer (possibly rotational program of some sort). That's all fine and dandy for those MBAs who go to school full time. I hope to emphasize that I have already been balancing a full-time job and MBA program at the same time. Then maybe, if they like my performance, they'd be willing to extend a FT offer directly out of SA.
Has anyone here on WSO ever achieved this?
The issue I see is that you won't have your MBA yet (right?) and that, technically, would potentially leave you unqualified for the position (as far as education is concerned). Obviously, if they like you and you impress them, then it may not be an issue, but I see that as being a potential problem. Essentially it would be similar to you just apply and getting an offer, except they have the benefit of working with you first, so you would have already be qualified for an associate position. The problem there is you would have to quit your full time job just to complete the internship and it's very doubtful they would offer you any sort of guarantee that they will hire you...so logistically, it seems like it would be a bit of a gamble on your part.
I thought about doing a similar situation after I graduated and didn't immediately have a job...though at the analyst level...but, I was going to apply for summer analyst positions and then try to leverage that into a FT position immediately following the completion of the internship. I've never heard of that happening but banks do hire off cycle, so there is no reason they shouldn't hire someone who is/was interning with them that did a great job over someone they just brought in for an off-cycle interview. I ended up getting a FT offer so I didn't pursue that route but the battle would have been to get a bank to bring me on as an intern even though they might not be able to keep me at that time due to staffing needs so they would let me go and hope that I would be around in 8 months to start full time. Obviously, anyone out of school would likely have to work over that 8 month period so the bank risks losing a possible future employee, thus would be much less likely to give you the internship in the first place.
Regards
Regards
cph- you hit the nail right on the head... it is absolutely a GAMBLE... I'm in engineering at the moment, and if I land an internship, I say fuck it. I'm going for the internship. I must build credibility and experience in the IB/S&T industry somehow. I guess I'll find out. First thing's first... get a SA offer... shit, I think I submitted 15-20 application in the past few weeks. Probably not enough, but its better than nothing.
A friend of mine was actually asked to start FT right after internship and he accepted. It was because of his language skills that the company needed asap though. However, that is the only case I've ever heard of.
Haha... well, being that I'm from South Louisiana, I can be a great interpreter for the NY offices when they're dealing with folks from down below the Mason Dixon line. Maybe I have something going for me after all! Though, I'll need to learn how to listen to and comprehend 800 words per minute coming out of New Yorkers mouths!
Summer 2011 SA >>> FT Offer Rates (Originally Posted: 02/07/2011)
Before I began my post, I have searched this topic and all of the information on offer rates is from 07 when times were really good or from 08-09 when the IB industry was doing terrible.
Does anybody know what the expected offer rates will be for SA's this upcomping summer? MS in particular?
What groups at MS have higher offer rates than others? Groups with historically low offer rates?
Also, what can one do pre-internship to best prepare to do well and get an offer post-internship?
Thanks everyone.
I cannot speak to MS, but I from what I heard / saw, DB and Barcap took 80-90% of their SAs and did light recruiting in the fall.
Having been an SA who got an offer, the best advice I can give you regarding preparing for the summer is, enjoy the last few months of school. Once the internship starts, however, go balls to the wall for the entire program. My plan of attack was simple: ask all the people around me (associates and analysts) if they had anything I could do for them, be the first in / last out and, most importantly, always kept a smile on my face
Good luck
other than GS, I think all the BB's have pretty high conversion rates
Conversion rates? dude....just do your job
Banking is all about perception. If I see you in the office, I assume you are doing work. Why would you be there collecting a ridiculously large overtime check and eating free dinner/lunch on the weekends.
Have a great attitude and do not turn down work unless you are SERIOUSLY and i mean SERIOUSLY jammed.....like you have 3 books to due the same week and you just learned what floor the print shop is on.
Work the most hours, turn in work at an average pace, have a good attitude and don't make mistakes. Unless you are at GS, this will guarantee you an offer
My advice applies to every firm except Goldman. At Goldman, face time = the culture. GS, the only firm where Vice President use Seamless daily.
haha what about GS S and T
what? overtime check? Who gives overtime checks?
my bank ha
BAML, C, CS, DB, MS
Pay overtime to SAs, although the pay schemes are different.
Practise FILO (First In Last Out). Try to have a great attitude.
To prepare, sleep a lot. Work out (you wont have time once you start). Get your summer partying in. Be prepared to devote the rest of your summer to your internship once you start.
Congrats and good luck
I know for summer (associate and analyst) C and BofA ML give overtime, maybe more. Supposedly the result of some law.
What is goldmans conversion ratio? Is it actually so poor or is this another over exaggerated talking point about the firm?
What about BBs in HK (GS, MS)???
Most BBs in London had conversion rates of 70-80% last summer. Not sure about NYC though.
Most banks take most of incoming class from SA... the only reason you may have an easier time with FT recruiting is if you have a FT offer in hand already, else it's almost impossible... a lot of banks are shying away from FT recruiting (bc it's expensive and it's a gamble vs. a proven SA)...
SA ---> Full-time (Originally Posted: 03/21/2008)
This summer I'll be at an M&A advisory firm, think Rothschild or Lazard or Greenhill or Evercore [etc. etc. ]
Anyone got an idea approx. what percentage of interns get offers at these firms? e.g I heard that at Laz, less than 50% chance of conversion from SA to FT!! Would this apply at other firms?
I did an internship last summer at a european i-bank and was told multiple times that I would get an offer unless I massively scr*wed up, that it was really mine to lose.
Will this be the case this summer as well???
I am actually in a similar position, therefore your opinions about this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
I have a feeling Lazard's conversion rate is so low because they have two batches of interns. Might be wrong about this though.
Why would this affect the conversion rate?
two batches of interns? similar to lehman?
Lazard is well above 50%, closer to 75%+.
I just checked the Lazard website and they say they take 25 interns then hire 15 full time, making for a conversion rate of 60%. If in fact they hire two batches of 25 interns, the conversion rate is a much lower 30%.
I mention the latter scenario because I find it hard to believe a large bank like Lazard would only have 12 or 13 interns at a time in their London office. As I said before though, I'm just speculating and could be wrong.
My point is the fact that they have two batches in no way impacts the overall percentage of offers given out. You could make the argument that being in one batch over another gives some sort of advantage but that is not what you are saying.
The numbers in your hypothetical are not grounded in logic. Lazard is not going to have a fixed number of offers and a variable number of interns, there has to be some correlation between the two.
ideating, I don't think you understood my previous comments. Let me rephrase it for you...
We know for a fact that Lazard hires 15 full time analysts. (Actually, I am absolutely certain about this. Last summer, their hiring goal was to hire 15 from their interns, plus 1 or 2 who interned at other banks.) Now what if we want to calculate a conversion rate? Well, we need to know how many interns they had. If they had 25 interns, we get a conversion rate of 60% (=15/25). If they had 50 interns, we get a conversion rate of 30% (=15/50).
My point has nothing to do with whether one batch is favored, or whether the number number of interns is variable.
Ok this is an incredibly inane argument. Short version: 25 interns, doesn't matter how you cut it (1 or 2 batches) and 15 offers will yield the same %. Your assumption that X interns refers to per batch rather than total is really weird...
Obviously the number of batches doesn't matter.
It's the total number of interns that matters. And depending on whether there are 25 or 50 in total, the % will differ.
If your point is that Lazard hires just 25 interns in London... OK, I'm inclined to agree with you, because, as I said before, I'm just speculating in order to see if there might be an explanation for the OP's point.
I interviewed for Laz London, and the 25 is a total for the entire summer. They have a batch of 12 and a batch of 13.
Thanks for your input!
Does anybody have an idea what the situation at Rothschild in London is with regard to intern to full time conversion?
For one, I know that the Paris office does not particularly give preference to past interns for full-time positions... As for London in 2006, Rothschild had a 30 percent conversion rate if my sources are correct, does anybody know more about this?
No offense Fisher, but these questions are rather pointless. No one on this board is going to be able to give you definite percentages or odds of you turning your SA offer into a FT offer. If Rothschild's converstion percentage is 75% as compared to Lazard's 60%, are you going to take the offer b/c of that. Is it going to make you work any less hard to secure that offer? Choose the bank that fits you best, bust your ass, and all will work out.
BTW, I really doubt RC hires only 30% of their summers.
Lazard hired 25 interns for the NYC office - confirmed by their head recruiter.
nystateofmind, I sure do see your point. Of course it all depends on your own motivation to get a FT offer... I am just looking for more info about conversion rates at Rothschild as a friend of mine will be interning at Lehman, where conversion is ridiculously high at about 90 percent according to HR. Lehman supposedly intends to almost solely recruit from their SA pool. Therefore I just wanted to see if anyone could confirm my impression that Rothschild does not give such a strong preference to SA's for FT offers as some other banks. Particularly curious about the reasoning behind this...
2011 IBD SA to FT offer stats (Originally Posted: 08/08/2011)
Every winter, users ask about the SA to FT offer-conversion rate at several of the top shops. This year, I thought it would be good to preempt the confusion by recording the offer stats of the major (and non-major too!) banks, so that we can reference this thread down the road. This is the last week of SA season at most major banks, so we're going to have several new data-points shortly. Please post anything you hear here!
Thread summary (will update as more data is posted):
-GS:
-MS:
-JPM: SF 100%; LA 100%
-CS:
-DB: Tech Group SF/Boston: 100% (6 of 6)
-C: NY ~91% (M&A: 8 of 9; Chemicals: 1 of 2; Comms: 6 of 8; Power: 6 of 6; Inudstrials: 7 of 7; Consumers: 7 of 7; FEG: 5 of 5)
-BAML: NY 100% w/ several groups unreported (Energy/Power: 7 of 7); Houston 100% (Energy: 4 of 4)
-BarCap: NY ~90% (100 of 111)
-UBS: NY ~80%
-BX:
-LAZ:
-EVR:
-GH:
-PWP:
-Moelis:
-Rothschild:
-CV:
-Allen:
-QP:
-Jeff:
-HLHZ:
-WB:
-HW:
-LAZ MM:
-RBC:
-RBS: Stamford ~69% (Cap Mkts: 9 of 13)
-PJ:
-WF:
-Nomura:
-Macquarie:
So far, I've heard that every JP Morgan IBD SA on the west coast received an offer.
posting to follow.
I heard Citi NY IBD conversion rate was around 80%
Numbers are looking pretty high overall.
Do you think this will change by next summer? Will there be fewer interviewees during recruiting season?
I don't know if we can draw those kind of conclusions from offer conversion alone.
However, when mixed with the current blood rivers on the street, the only trend I would be willing to predict is a static FT recruiting season - that is to say, illiquid. Banks have likely chosen their guys already and won't be looking to add much more through FT hiring. Thus, if an MS summer wants to go to Goldman and a Goldman summer wants to go to MS, neither will be able to simply because banks won't have extra slack in their systems.
That being said, this is all speculation. I don't claim to actually know what I'm talking about, haha.
We'll see how the market plays out in the next handful of months, if we get another injection of QE then we might all be able to make it through our analyst years before another crash!
I also heard from someone who works at Citi in S&T, that Citi was going beef up their S.A offers..
People I know are 3/9 for offers at Citi across IBD and S&T... JPM IBD conversion was very high this year.
Here's what I heard about Citi Citi Power: 6/6 Citi Industrials: 7/7 Citi Consumer: 7/7 Citi Comms: 4/7 Citi FEG (Alt Assets/Sponsors): 5/5 Citi M&A: all but one or two got offers
How odd that you are friends with 6 people who didn't get offers.
Awesome, thanks for the input doddfranky, I've updated accordingly.
Keep em coming guys, I expect this thread will start heating up as the end of the week rolls around...
Oh, also, feel free to let me know if I'm missing any of the banks with major summer programs. Thanks.
I've heard MS NY IBD is 80~90%. Could someone confirm?
I've only heard on one group within MS, but I know that all 11 of them were getting offers (pending they were absolutely god-awful). I spoke to a VP there and the impression I got was that IBD is running a pretty lean ship this year, and the FT recruitment they will be doing will be mainly to fill the spot of any SA who declines. And given that this is MS we are talking, I can't imagine that there will be too many who turn down an offer.
As a FT recruit, not exactly the best news....
I've heard from a high up source that JPM recruiting budget is still pretty generous for what its worth
^So maybe F.T recurting?
What about moelis?
I have a friend at Moelis and their summer program isn't done yet.
any know anything about barclays?
Are conversion rates usually this high?? I was under the impression that at most banks it was more like 50%? Do you think that at the banks doing well currently, the offer rate will stay this high over the next 6 months or so (assuming the entire financial system doesnt collapse....)?
^I believe its been always high since the financial crisis, prob a lot higher this time around because of all the events that have taken place.
I have it on good authority that the offer-rate at Barclays NY was 100 of 111 (90%) for the IB summer analysts. Not sure on group breakdown, but definitely continues trend.
Should also note that these offers are post recent market implosion, so hiring might not take the hit some of us were expecting it to. We'll see though.
Keep the data coming guys...
do you guys think barclays will be hiring and ft's? or only if some of the SA's decline?
They seem to have 11 more seats open, I hope a lot decline. I'm really interested to see UBS numbers. It seems like its going be a bad year for F.T recruiting.
Barclays S&T of who I know is 2/12. Dismal year-- NYU and Brown got spanked with no offers
Yikes. I guess they will be interviewing for s&t. Hope they will be looking for ibd A's well
Quite the contrary actually. They aren't even sure if they will have FT spots at all--but it's definitely going to be very minimal.
And westcoaster, I know 1 nyu grad that got an offer, so it wasn't a complete shutout. also there's 1 nyu kid on hold.
Energy & Power @ BAML NY:
2 of 3 associates 7 of 7 analysts
Note: Only adding analyst figures to consensus
-NR
UBS NY: I heard about 80%
I'm interested in finding out the word for their ibd ft
RBS Stamford: 9/13 cap mkts & 15/35 s&t.
I know GS has not given out offers yet but anyone have any clue about how tight it is going to be? It would suck to be a GS summer right now cause all of your friends at other banks probably already have offers or know what to do next while you are stuck in limbo.
Haha when are GS numbers coming out? My friend is over there and he is busy not replying to my emails/calls anymore
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