Guess it's almost that time of year where #'s are getting communicated. Share below (if possible in below format). I'll get it started:
YoE (since Grad / on Buyside): 8 / 6
Strategy: Credit/Event
Total 2022 Comp (Base + Bonus): 750k (150 / 600)
Total 2021 Comp: 1.1M
Notes: fund exp to be down 5-10% this year
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Please do also report the country. I guess you are US, but for the London guys, would be good to know also Bonus
include approx AUM too or some form of size metric if possible.
Interested in hearing your stats / comp / fund size / performance / mm vs sm
Also please include MM vs SM in posts
$750 when the fund's down 5-10%...not bad at all, congrats. Approximate size of the firm/fund?
Don't want to reveal too much but >1B
YOE buyside: 13
strategy: multi asset/quant
2022 comp: $5.5mm ($500k base / $5mm bonus)
if you're able to share, approx size of fund?
Large fund ($10+ billion).
this sounds very encouraging for those who started as quant alpha researchers..
Mind to share if your total comp is considered top 10-20% amongst all PMs in your fund this year?
making money like a professional soccer player, congrats
Unrelated Q but have you found your hrs over the past 10yrs have stayed pretty constant around 50-65/week? Curious if more tenured buysiders (6+ yrs) see hours change over a long enough time horizon. Thx
I usually work ~50 hrs a week (8AM - 6 PM) although I do spend a lot of my time outside of work thinking about markets. Rarely does it get over 60 unless a lot is going on in the markets.
What does a undergraduate junior math major with a summer IB position at a Jefferies/WB/Guggenheim caliber firm hoping to be in your position some time down the line have to do. Any valuable hard skills to learn early (maybe accounting?).
Honestly, I’d recommend you enjoy college and make sure you use that time to study the things you are passionate about (and take the weird classes/seminars that sound interesting that you may not get a chance to do later in life). And also enjoy the social aspect, you are surrounded by people your age, there are so many great opportunities to take advantage of in college, don’t waste that time worrying about what’ll get you in a HF down the road, most of that stuff won’t matter (you’ll learn a lot on the job).
I never set out to work at a HF out of school (barely knew how they worked), so I can’t say my advice is any good. But I’ve had most of my success when finding the things I’m passionate about and working hard at them. A few things:
1) follow your passions: when I set out the quant space wasn’t that big, the technical skills weren’t valued as much, but I enjoyed it. I focused on being the best at that
2) focus on learning: too often people are focused on being the best or being “right” without focusing on actually learning content. A big difference between a HF and school is that there isn’t a “right” answer, you need to be creative and see things others don’t
3) don’t be afraid to fail: so many people I’ve met come from impressive backgrounds, have always been the “best”, they don’t know how to fail and learn and they are so afraid of it
4) take all the opportunities presented to you (to a degree): don’t stress about things being “beneath” you, work hard and every opportunity is an opportunity to learn and advance.
that’s all I have for now
YOE (total / buyside): 3/1
Strategy: LO
Total Comp: 420k (180 base + 240 bonus)
NYC?
What is your prior experience?
Going to be honest - was totally oblivious to how well LO could comp if this is legit
What type of LO? Fidelity/T Rowe or Wellington, Sands, etc
Probs fake lol.
Unbelievable comp!
YOE (Total/Buyside) 1.5/3 months
Strategy: LO HY/Distressed Credit
Total comp: 220k (130 base + 90k bonus)
What is performance this year and size of fund?
Performance is decent (Around -6% ytd), fund size is 7-8bn depending on our marks lol
Hi. What type of roles feed into HY/distressed funds? Any chance you can dm me, would love opportunity to ask you a few questions. Really enjoy the complexity of distressed credit
What does LO mean. My apologies, still learning.
Long Only
Hey OP, couple questions
Don't want to get too specific but reasonably lean. I'm a mid to senior level analyst, don't think there's path to partner but I would guess the much more senior analysts make 3-5x+ what I make
Ignore the title from a prior role.
YoE: 8 / 7
Strategy: Credit/Event SM HF
2022 Comp: 1.1M total (300 base / 800 bonus)
Performance: down 0-5%
AUM: $10BN+
Ugh - this thread is good motivation as I continue to throw everything I have towards transitioning to a HF role, but damn my comp sucks
Don't let this thread skew your perception. For every post that's $1.1M in comp there's 20 untold stories ranging from "got fired" to $400k all-in.
How are you getting that bonus even with 0-5% year? Is comp not just linked to fund performance?
Not OP but next year distressed / credit is expected to be attractive so need senior analysts in seats to drive incremental returns.
At 10bn+ should be well within the 300m+ / IP range or better so the management fees are there and 0-5% should beat relevant credit benchmarks.
Im more impressed by the base salary.
Congrats - sounds like we are in similar enough age / industry / seats (I'm OP). How was your 2022 vs. 2021? I kind of expected comp to be down, haven't really figured out if I should be underwhelmed, happy, sad or what with what they gave me (I guess should default to grateful to have a job and pay great vs. many many others)
My comp is down pretty materially y/y from 2021 (fund was up ~12%), so I feel ok all things considered. Not underwhelmed, not overwhelmed, just whelmed…
Can you share brief career path please?
wheres all the fund closed down/fired/0 bonus datapoints? don't be shy guys
interested as well, to paint a realistic picture
See below
that's what I'm thinking. the market has been atrocious this year. funds are going bust. layoffs everywhere. and people in here are all like "fund down 5%, comp mil+". one guy even posted that he made 5.5mil. that's what Olivier Giroud is making - one of the top goal scorers in the World Cup, leading goal scorer in French history, the man who brought France to the World Cup final. and then somebody who lost 5% of somebody else's money is getting paid the same. ridiculous.
I’m the person who posted the $5.5mm and we didn’t lose 5%. We are up a fair bit this year. Also, many football players get paid a lot more (you are cherry picking an example) but on the other side there aren’t many people at funds that make this either (so you are comparing a good players to a senior person at a “top” fund). It isn’t crazy, both are people who are excelling in a competitive field.
I mean the top HF guys are all richer than the top footballers so it isn't too crazy
YoE: 8 / 2
Strategy: L/S Equity Pod Shop
2022 Comp: $550k total (175 base / 375 bonus)
Performance: +5%
What was your experience prior? Do you run your own sleeve?
That seems really low to me assuming it's a +5% on your team's GMV (which would be a great year). What's your own PnL like?
SS Research previously. I don’t run my own sleeve but contribute to idea gen process and did generate P&L. GMV is <$700m so yes it was a good year
You were calling for someone with a shitty year, here I am
YOE: 4 / 4
Strategy: L/S Equity and HY
2022 Comp: $120k + $30k
Notes: fund expected to be down around 25% for the year. Based in Europe.
how big is your fund?
YOE: 5-7 / 5-7
Strategy: L/S Equity
2022 Comp: $100k + $0k
Notes: fund expected to be down around mid-teens for the year. Made a lot of investment errors this year, will bounce back next year hopefully. Based in US.
Jesus bro do u need go fund me
I could make $500k in a good year sir
I respect the candor. Unfortunately, doughnut years are unfortunately a part of the business if you want to retain the ability to play for upside + career optionality. I have been there before and can empathize.
Doesn't the base feel super low, especially given the years of experience?
Following
For you london lads:
YoE (since Grad / on Buyside): 2 / 1
Strategy: Quant Alternative
Total 2022 Comp (Base + Bonus): ~£290k (~95 + ~195)
Notes: dogshit first half of the year, crazy good second half.
an unsolicited guess..sounds like baupost?
YoE (since Grad / on Buyside): 5 / 3
Strategy: L/S Equity (Crossover)
Total 2022 Comp (Base + Bonus): 380k (160 / 220)
$1-5bn fund size, down ~25% this year
How does this compare to your comp last year?
Not really a relevant comparison as I was in PE last year, but it’s roughly flat
Why are they paying you a fat bonus even with being down 25% on the year? Genuinely curious
Cause it’s not a fat bonus?
So if you're making 220k in bonuses when fund is down 25 percent, then how much could u make if it was up 25 percent?
They were hired from PE in first year, if the fund was up 40% prolly would have made 400k. The first year of comp is basically guaranteed range, otherwise they would never attract talent.
I’d clarify this to confirm that yes the floor comp was guaranteed for first year, but I took the role for the upside in good years. If I was paid $400k in a year we were up 40% then I would be looking for another job, as the $400k is under market to begin with
Well how much would/should u be expecting in a 40% return year?
>$600k at least
Lol something seems off if 400k is under market and 600k is expected comp in a blowout year
I’m not sure what you’re specifically referring to here but for context staying in PE for a third year comp would be ~$450-500k (hence $400k is under market). If we were legitimately up 40% this year I would hope to be above $600k but also recognize there is likely some ceiling to what I’d get in my first year on the HF side. Have heard of first year guarantees from top crossovers for 2+2 backgrounds in the $600-700k range (this was in 2021 though)
You sound like a first year banker getting pissed off at centerview analysts making $50k more than you your first year. That's not how this works
Explain your point then instead of just making vague, unproductive comments. At no point did I complain about the comp, I’m simply stating the market rates for the benefit of others
What value did you contribute to your crossover fund -25% that makes you entitled to more than 400k of comp / "it is not good comp"? You sound tone deaf if how you're describing "but my PE comp would've been this if I stayed" where your clear value is a cog in the machine of churning out models for your MD vs. having questionable value to tech-beta HF that itself probably has questionable value if they were down 25% this year.
Compensation doesn't just move in a straight line upwards because you got college / banking / PE with a golden spoon after you first opened a Vault guide 10 years ago. You should be grateful your fund hasn't been liquidated frankly.
Got it, I’m sorry you’re upset about the people who have been able to ride the levered long tech beta wave to wealth over the past few years - sounds like you weren’t on that path and I can understand the frustration. With that said, my comp does not include any sort of tie-in to incentive performance so in many ways (this is my opinion you don’t need to agree) I am still a “cog in the machine” where my comp / cost is based on the other respective opportunities in the market. FWIW I joined part way through the year and the fund was already down - the P&L for the names I cover / pitched was actually positive.
So they paid you 220k bonus for not a full year? And you're running victory laps for pitching some ideas mid way through the year after names drawdown 50-70% and we've gone through 3+ bear market rallies?
I could care less how others make their wealth (especially in industry like ours where the average HF professional value add is "negative" returns) but when I see young kids with shiny eyes having attitude / entitlement problems, I try point it out only so that it may help you down the road. I guarantee you that your "P&L for my names are positive" matter equally at best (and less than at worst) to your attitude early in your career and senior analysts / PMs notice that stuff.
*deleted*
I’m not OP and I love this drama but it really gets me when people say “what did you to deserve $x”. What do you do to deserve your $200k base comp versus some guy in any other job. Who the fuck cares.
Everyone knows it’s not necessarily a straight line up progression in the HF world but in the more SM funds at a junior level - it’s kind of like that. You’re not as levered as you are to fund performance (so you don’t make crazy amounts in a blowout year either) and they build in some some of career progression path.
Literally nothing wrong with comparing his forward PE comp with HF comp. That’s literally the choice one has to make when leaving PE too.
Fund is down and he’s still getting 400k or whatever? Who cares - good for him. Maybe it’s a good seat and the fund values retaining people + can afford despite being down.
Can you share brief career path please?
If these guys are being paid so well when the fund is losing money I wonder how macro guys are doing right now...
8 YOE, 6 buyside
$1.5b fund, sm equity l/s and not market neutral, down mid-high single digits
$250k base, $200k bonus
wish we performed better, but outperformed our bench. can’t complain, expected a donut since bonus is mostly tied to fund p/l, but prob given out to help with retention
Not bad - what have other years looked like for you? Thanks.
$700k to $1mm the last 2 years after P&L linkage
Can you share brief career path please?
YoE (since Grad / on Buyside): 5 / 5
Strategy: Event
Total 2022 Comp (Base + Bonus): 635
Total 2021 Comp: 620
0% PnL; my positions meh
WOW
That’s really good for only 5 years… and especially when mergarb returns weren’t even out of ballpark this year. can you share fund AUM and returns? Is this a farallon?
You must’ve been a pretty strong individual contributor to have an up year on comp while the fund or pod returned flat to negative.
3 years out of college. 1.5 on buyside. 125k base; 350k bonus. 475k total comp. Pod at mm.
How was performance and did you contribute to p&l? Was this a big year or is that pretty average?
could you give any insight on how many hours you work in a week? i'm trying to get an idea of the pod lifestyle
Depends on the team really. The stressful part about the job isn’t really the hours. You’ll end up thinking about the stocks, ideas and themes way beyond the hours you spend at the desk..
For my specific case, my actual hours at the desk look something like 7:30am to 5:30pm. Extend that a little bit during earnings. Some teams spend all their time building very detailed models which can mean they spend more time at the desk. Again, hours worked not really the main driver of wellbeing on the job I’d say.
Team performed in line with overall fund so pretty normal year.
Can you share what your career path was? Also, excuse me for still learning but "pod"?
If you trade equities, your bonus was keeping your job
.
Jane street?
11/11
PM L/S
13mm
32mm
Household name MM
any advice for choosing a sector to cover in MM? any recommendations? I will be an intern at one of the big platforms next summer and would like to hear from someone with your experience
Depends more on PM/Team you are learning from
32mm?? Thats wild. Congrats. Do you think that's replicable at any SMs?
Probably not - you need a formulaic payout.
In this case it means making about 150mm of pnl at a multi-manager which can be done in a big year with 1-2bn of capital.
what percentile of PMs would you say you are in at your MM? top 20%? top 10%? This might be the biggest comp number posted in any WSO bonus thread
I think that at a top MM, maybe 5-10% of teams will make about 20mm in a year.
Damn
is the 13 for 2022 and the 32 for 2021?
YoE (since Grad / on Buyside): 11 / 6
Strategy: L/S Equity
Total 2022 Comp (Base + Bonus): 400k (150K / 250K)
Total 2021 Comp: $1M+
Notes: fund down ~10% - not a great year so generally happy
How big is your fund approximately?
$750M
YoE: 10 / 10
Strategy: Discretionary Macro at MM
Total 2022 Comp: 950k (200k / 750k)
Total 2021 Comp: 200k
Notes: Junior PM / Senior Analyst with Capital Allocation & P+L Economics.
Wow what were returns in 2021 vs 2022? Also do you work at a macro-specialized MM or one of the bigger MMs (citadel/baly/MLP)?
I work at one of the bigger MMs. I had good performance in both years, but I was netted out to zero in 2021 as opposed to 2022.
YOE: 0.5/0.5
Strategy: LO
Comp (Annualized): 160k (115k base + 45k bonus)
Honestly very surprised, beat my expectations.
Is this a 1.5/15 type fee structure or a traditional management fee only LO?
.
CTA or specific commodities?
Natural gas + power
Don't be modest. You made $800k, $550 cash :)
These reports seem to be mainly from the U.S based folks. How are the quants based in Asia and Europe doing this year?
YoE (since Grad / on Buyside): since finishing graduate school: 4.5 / 2.5
Strategy: Equity L/S SM, sector specific, $600M AUM
Total 2022 Comp (Base + Bonus): 925k (250 / 675 (425 cash, 250 deferred)
Total 2021 Comp: 650k
Notes: fund up around 5%
Sounds excellent for fund size and YoE. Congrats.
Are you able to share what sector?
YoE: (since grad / on buyside): 5 / 5
Strategy: Equity L/S SM, ~$500M AUM
Total 2022 Comp (Base + total bonus): $510k (200 / 310 - cash + equity)
Total 2021 Comp: $390k
Note: Fund up DD %
What does equity mean here? Do you mean a percent of the incentive fee? Or actual equity on the management company whereby you share in both management and performance fee streams?
Both
What % do you own?
GP minimal, LP more
YoE (since Grad / on Buyside): 6 / 4
Strategy: Credit/Event
Total 2022 Comp (Base + Bonus): 500K (160 / 340)
Notes: fund down 5-10%
Thought I came out OK this year given market, but some of these equity guys’ numbers got me thinking tho…
Mind sharing fund size by any chance? Feel like that's a pretty decent outcome given market regardless of what some equity guys in this thread got
i'd be pretty happy with 500k especially in bear market we have. My guess is you probably could see upside to 700-900k in better markets in that type of role by time you hit early 30's
Any color on the pay in Asia - Hong Kong / Singapore?
YoE (since Grad / onbuyside: 5 / 4
Strategy: Equity LO
Total 2022 Comp (Base + Bonus): 140 75/65
Notes: fund down 5-10%
Europe not London
Depressing how much being underpaid lol
Don't compare to London/NYC comp if you're somewhere else in Europe. Cost of living must be inferior for you ;)
.
congrats
How big is the fund and what was your background prior?
bump
YoE (since Grad / on Buyside): 12 / 10
Total 2022 Comp (Base + Bonus): 2.3M
Total 2021 Comp: 650k
Notes: feast or famine, boys. Senior Analyst at a SM fund.
nice, congrats
Congrats. What strategy/industry?
Not equity l/s, being a bit vague beyond that.
What strategy is the fund?
Would love to get some advice! Trying to break into banking after graduating I’ve hit a road block
YoE (since Grad / on Buyside): 3 / 1
Total 2022 Comp (Base + Bonus): $350k ($150 base / $200 bonus)
Notes: 2 years of BB IB. $3bn L/S SM fund
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