12/16/08

Some people have mentioned BoA's lev fin group as being highly prestiges, in the JPMorgan forum. I was wondering, especially after the merger with Merrill is completed, what other groups will BoA be strong/prestiges in? Does anyone know about their M & A, TMT, Nat. Resources, Consumer etc...

Comments (168)

  • aloki
  •  12/16/08

Merrill has fairly strong groups across the board. I know healthcare was top notch, multi-industries (includes metals, mining, infrastructure, etc)is pretty good, and the same goes for M&A + consumer. But yeah, back when lev fin was popular, B of A did very well. Only JPM had a better practice.

Investment Banking Interview Course

12/16/08

BofA had a great leveraged finance division... it's not very active now but it was a powerhouse a few months ago...

12/16/08

Also, you have to wait and see what divisions/bankers they keep from Merril after the merger because if they can the M&A division, per se, then that division is still the crappy bofa one...

12/16/08

It also sucks that those crappy BofA groups don't appreciate the awesomeness of the ML groups, and many of the IB cuts might likely be on the ML sides.

12/16/08

I have been hearing that ML is just waiting for the closing of the transaction to pull their first year offers from the summer. My friends who are still in school have already lined up back up plans.

Has anyone heard anything different (other thant he BS HR speak from ML that denies this, which is complete crap)

12/16/08

IBnutz, who has told you that? That sounds like pure speculation on part of the summers who received FT offers?

I am one of those and keeping my fingers crossed. I have no backup plan. Merrill HR has told us our offer will be fine, but obviously who knows. I am pretty worried, but haven't heard otherwise.

12/16/08
masterg:

IBnutz, who has told you that? That sounds like pure speculation on part of the summers who received FT offers?

I am one of those and keeping my fingers crossed. I have no backup plan. Merrill HR has told us our offer will be fine, but obviously who knows. I am pretty worried, but haven't heard otherwise.

The last people you should ever trust are HR.

12/16/08

I've heard health care is one of their best groups.

12/16/08

bofa and merrill have already announced post-merger group heads... and across the board most of them are ML (i think 14 out of 17).. the only ones where BofA guy is head of is Healthcare, Real-Estate, and Corporate Banking (ML doesn't have corporate banking).. so that should give you a clue where BofA strengths... that's not to say that ML's groups in those areas aren't good.. I'm pretty sure ML HC is good too.. not sure about Real Estate

12/16/08

On a side note anybody heard any rumors on what the Investment bank will be called. I know GWM will still keep the Merrill name but is the IBK now called Bank of America Securities or Merrill Lynch?

12/16/08

BoA real estate is quite good. But so is Merrill's. It'll be interesting to see how both groups merge.

12/16/08

My info on the rescinding of offers comes from an MD in the ML healthcare group. But he qualifies that info with the fact that is his best estimate. Could be full of shit.

12/16/08

What about research and S&T (I'm guessing for fixed income both divisions are closely tied)

12/16/08

Healthcare/Pharma is the best from merrill, most BofA layoffs are from BofA, not Merrill, anyways

http://www.afr0jacks.com/
Afro Jacks

12/16/08

...so reminiscent of my BSC situation back in April. HR: "no worries, your offer is still good." ahem..

12/17/08

Soy, thats not true. At least at junior levels, ML is going to take the brunt of the lay-offs. Do you really think BofA cares about ML's supposed
'prestige' when to Ken Lewis its just a strategic move to get an asset management unit?

I think ML's IB is bigger than BOA's to begin with, meaning that at least in absolute numbers I'd expect ML to take a few steps back with hiring/keeping people employed.

12/17/08

bofa and merrill have
by bigal2127 (Chimp, 2 Banana Points Points) on 12/16/08 at 2:43pm

bofa and merrill have already announced post-merger group heads... and across the board most of them are ML (i think 14 out of 17).. the only ones where BofA guy is head of is Healthcare, Real-Estate, and Corporate Banking (ML doesn't have corporate banking).. so that should give you a clue where BofA strengths... that's not to say that ML's groups in those areas aren't good.. I'm pretty sure ML HC is good too.. not sure about Real Estate

Where you getting this information from? Any links..

12/17/08

Greg Fleming, who will be head of Global Corporate, Commercial and Investment Banking (GCCIB) following legal day one, today announced the members of the GCCIB Leadership Team. Regional heads, global business heads and global industry heads will have joint leadership accountability to ensure coordination and cross-selling across businesses and industry groups to maximize client coverage and profitability. These individuals will continue in their current roles until the successful closing of the merger and will assume their new appointments on legal day one.

* Americas Corporate and Investment Banking will be led by Brian Brille. (BofA)

* Asia Pacific Corporate and Investment Banking will be led by Jim Forbes.

* Europe, the Middle East & Africa Corporate and Investment Banking will be led by Mark Aedy.

* Global Energy & Power will be led by Jonathan Grundy.

* Global Financial Institutions will be led by Michael Rubinoff.

* Global Healthcare, Consumer and Retail will be led by Paul Donofrio. (BofA)

* Global Industrials will be led by Purna Saggurti.

* Global Real Estate and Gaming will be led by Ron Sturzenegger. (BofA)

* Global Telecom, Media & Technology will be led by George (Woody) Young.

* Global Corporate Banking will be led by Joel Van Dusen. (BofA)

* Global Mergers & Acquisitions and Financial Sponsors will be led by Jeff Kaplan.

* Global Client Development & Business Analytics will be led by Sara Furber.

12/17/08

Word on the street is that E&P is a sweatshop.

12/17/08

I can confirm that the BAML Power Group in NYC is a sweatshop (100+ hrs per week). Double all-nighters not uncommon. Rarely get holidays off. A lof of junior bankers leaving.

12/17/08

I can shed light on the E&P group:

They are actually a pretty strong group, advising on the shell/bg deal. They are trying to build out their platform, as they have strong deal flow but are also under-staffed. Energy is stronger than power, also have been informed that exit ops out of energy are a bit better. Energy has 25% of their group in NYC, and 75% in Houston, Power if my memory serves me correctly is just in NYC, or at least has the most people. Energy in NYC is possible, but most likely you would be placed in Houston.

Place is a sweatshop though right now, just due to them being understaffed.

"My name's Ralph Cox, and I'm from where ever's not gonna get me hit"

12/17/08

Why bash if that is where you want to work, go for it.

12/17/08

M&A and FSG are top notch

"Success means having the courage, the determination, and the will to become the person you believe you were meant to be"

12/17/08

Consumer/Retail and Real Estate.

But then again, go for something that you're actually interested in/passionate about.

12/17/08

,

12/17/08

M&A is a really strong group + very fun guys

You can't kill the guys you trade with

12/17/08

Financial Sponsors definitely

12/17/08

If you have an opportunity to work there, it's a good experience regardless. Do not be one of those group/firm snobs. So few people get opportunites to work in groups even close to this one that you have to take your opportunity and run with it.

12/17/08

Thanks for the insight. Did you use to work in this group?

12/17/08

Pm me

12/17/08

All of the groups in GCIB are based out of NYC.

12/17/08

Although some groups are split with Charlotte like lev fin which may actually be bigger there than NY (not sure)

12/17/08

Most of the leveraged finance analysts and associates moved from Charlotte to NYC as of last year.

12/17/08

TMT is the only group with legit exit opportunities unless you want to go to Lindsay Goldberg or something...

Consumer was good when Romitha was there. Now it is just a piece of shit.

12/17/08
bunkerbanker:

TMT is the only group with legit exit opportunities unless you want to go to Lindsay Goldberg or something...

Consumer was good when Romitha was there. Now it is just a piece of shit.

Tech and Media & Telecom are separate Coverage groups... also Energy & Power has strong presence in Houston, naturally, in addition to the NYC personnel... also you couldn't be more wrong with regard to the firm's exit opps... BAML has been crushing it in the syndicated loan space... Lev Fin has phenomenal PE placement and so do most coverage groups... don't make blanket statements about groups you know little about...

12/17/08

in response to the above post, why is working at a respected ~10B AUM firm not a "legit exit opp"? pretty ridiculous and leveragedsellout-like

12/17/08

Technically, Leveraged finance is not part of GCIB. It is part of Capital Markets. That being said the Lev Fin group is split between high yield bonds in New York and leveraged loans in Charlotte.

12/17/08

o yea ur right seth i forgot how they split it up

12/17/08

real estate has some bankers in charlotte as well

TMT is not TMT it is split into Traditional tech (based in SF), business tech (based in NY) and Media & telecom (based in NY)

12/17/08
corruptbargain:

real estate has some bankers in charlotte as well

TMT is not TMT it is split into Traditional tech (based in SF), business tech (based in NY) and Media & telecom (based in NY)

The tech group is mostly in Palo Alto, which is the biggest BAML office globally outside of NYC, cos the global head of tech banking sits in that office.

I know there is also a corporate finance group in NYC comprised of around 15 bankers.

12/17/08

real estate!!!!

"The higher up the mountain, the more treacherous the path"
-Frank Underwood

12/17/08

There's an older thread on this topic....

//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/baml-groups

12/17/08

Comments

C.R.E.A.M.

12/17/08

bump

12/17/08

Is this for the NY office ?? The top groups at BAML in NY are Lev Fin, FS & M & A. The above three groups do place well into PE. I have heard Energy is decent but not the best.

12/17/08

how about for the sf office?

12/17/08

how about for the sf office?

12/17/08

is the energy group the one in Calgary?

12/17/08

Nope I am talking about Houston.

12/17/08

They have (arguably) the best real estate coverage group on the Street, if you're into that.

Float like a butterfly, sting like the bee.

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12/17/08

Any of these should do - Lev. Fin., M&A, Financial Sponsors

12/17/08

Their Lev Fin group has been doing really well lately, but I believe that it is classified under "Global Capital Markets" line of business (with DCM/ECM) so I believe that it is a different interview process.

12/17/08

Sponsors handles the LBOs, LevFin gets into the nitty-gritty debt stuff. Former is probably better for PE, latter (guessing?) for credit HFs, but they'll both get you looks from everywhere. It's true at most places, but for BAML especially you'll want to be in product.

As for avoid like the plague...TMT. It kinda blows.

12/17/08

Anymore perspectives on this? I'm curious but don't want to start a new thread.

12/17/08

for exit opps, financial sponsors by far. Then M&A. Lev Fin gets good deal flow but the experience you get isn't as good as people on this board claim.

12/17/08

bump

12/17/08

FX or Rates trading

12/17/08

Here is a list of desks that might tickle your fancy
- EM Credit Trading
- Rates (swaps + sov) and Credit Trading
- FX Trading
- Inflation Trading
- LCT Rates (Local Currency Trading)

12/17/08

thanks rumplesmoothspin

12/17/08

Same issue- interested in macro and have a rotatoin program in rates trading at a bank- i can do swaps, options and inflation- all USD. What should my order of priority ideally be if given a choice?
Thanks!

12/17/08

swaps first, then inflation, then options. I honestly think STIR will force you to learn the most macro of any asset class but I am biased from experience...

12/17/08

Cool, thanks! Any other points of view? How relevant are options for macro trading in general anyway?

12/17/08
9956:

swaps first, then inflation, then options. I honestly think STIR will force you to learn the most macro of any asset class but I am biased from experience...

Interested to know why you recommend swaps over options. What about your experience makes you say this?

Also STIR is often used to refer to the FX forwards desk. I assume you meant IR swaps by that?

12/17/08

Right, I was meaning the short end of the rates curve - equally trading cash would provide the same education. Reasoning being is that if you are trying to develop your awareness of macro trends, you are primarily going to be thinking about your outright or curve movements rather than your vol position and your gamma/vega risks. I.e. "I think rates are going to go down as the ECB/Fed/BoE injects liquidity" rather than "I think volatility is underpriced in this sector". Obviously there is a huge amount of overlap - you do think about delta on a vol desk and CB interventions will have significant effects on vol, but in the day to day running of the options desk, a LOT of stuff is going to be delta neutral. Does this make sense? You are forced to really get to grips with what drives the outright movement of the short end (macro stuff) if you trade it, rather than looking at your delta as an often minor component on a vol desk. I have been on both types of desks. Let me know if this doesnt make sense - I am sick right now and mind is a bit foggy!

12/17/08
9956:

Right, I was meaning the short end of the rates curve - equally trading cash would provide the same education. Reasoning being is that if you are trying to develop your awareness of macro trends, you are primarily going to be thinking about your outright or curve movements rather than your vol position and your gamma/vega risks. I.e. "I think rates are going to go down as the ECB/Fed/BoE injects liquidity" rather than "I think volatility is underpriced in this sector". Obviously there is a huge amount of overlap - you do think about delta on a vol desk and CB interventions will have significant effects on vol, but in the day to day running of the options desk, a LOT of stuff is going to be delta neutral. Does this make sense? You are forced to really get to grips with what drives the outright movement of the short end (macro stuff) if you trade it, rather than looking at your delta as an often minor component on a vol desk. I have been on both types of desks. Let me know if this
doesnt make sense - I am sick right now and mind is a bit foggy!

This makes sense and thanks for the write up. Curiously enough, the traders I met often recommended going for the vol desk over cash (this is not specific to rates) because they could make money trading the gamma/vega while also putting on delta positions (i.e. leaving stuff unhedged) if they felt like it. The focus is different, like you said, but the traders I met seemed to prize the "more ways of making money" part of a vol desk quite highly.

Is there any difference between swaps and vol in terms of the type of clients you interact with? I heard most macro funds these days like putting positions on using options, so if you were on a vol desk you might get more exposure to the sophisticated ideas they were running, in addition to building a stronger relationship with those funds. How does that compare with a swaps or cash desk - would you see more corporate activity and fewer hedge fund clients there?

12/17/08

Curious to know where you heard the following things you said. Also curoius about any additional viewpoints.
"I heard most macro funds these days like putting positions on using options"
"Curiously enough, the traders I met often recommended going for the vol desk over cash (this is not specific to rates) because they could make money trading the gamma/vega while also putting on delta positions (i.e. leaving stuff unhedged) if they felt like it."

12/17/08

whalesquid123:
9956:
Right, I was meaning the short end of the rates curve - equally trading cash would provide the same education. Reasoning being is that if you are trying to develop your awareness of macro trends, you are primarily going to be thinking about your outright or curve movements rather than your vol position and your gamma/vega risks. I.e. "I think rates are going to go down as the ECB/Fed/BoE injects liquidity" rather than "I think volatility is underpriced in this sector". Obviously there is a huge amount of overlap - you do think about delta on a vol desk and CB interventions will have significant effects on vol, but in the day to day running of the options desk, a LOT of stuff is going to be delta neutral. Does this make sense? You are forced to really get to grips with what drives the outright movement of the short end (macro stuff) if you trade it, rather than looking at your delta as an often minor component on a vol desk. I have been on both types of desks. Let me know if this
doesnt make sense - I am sick right now and mind is a bit foggy!

This makes sense and thanks for the write up. Curiously enough, the traders I met often recommended going for the vol desk over cash (this is not specific to rates) because they could make money trading the gamma/vega while also putting on delta positions (i.e. leaving stuff unhedged) if they felt like it. The focus is different, like you said, but the traders I met seemed to prize the "more ways of making money" part of a vol desk quite highly.

Is there any difference between swaps and vol in terms of the type of clients you interact with? I heard most macro funds these days like putting positions on using options, so if you were on a vol desk you might get more exposure to the sophisticated ideas they were running, in addition to building a stronger relationship with those funds. How does that compare with a swaps or cash desk - would you see more corporate activity and fewer hedge fund clients there?

Sure, I can see the appeal of that - if you can master all of those things then that is pretty awesome. Are the guys you are thinking of equity guys? I have no idea about that side of the business. Also on the cash desk people will still have options on the books (ahem as hedges of course) so it is not like you will never get any vol exposure. If you trade options on the cash desk it will almost certainly be as a punt on the outright level, rather than a vol trade, and GENERALLY speaking on the vol desk your main risks will be your other greeks. A lot of trades are by construction delta neutral (swaptions often trade as straddle/strangle in the interbank mkt) but obviously you have the choice of what to do with your delta when you get gammaed into positions or trade a package that has delta. You will learn a huge amount on both desks, so other factors should massively feature in your choice (so definitely more important than "shall i do cash or vol?" is "is this senior guy going to teach me some tricks and patiently indulge my dumb annoying noob questions when I sit next to him?" I am by no means knocking the vol desk (i had fun on it) but the question as I understood it in the context of this thread was "what will I learn most macro on", not "what desks makes more money in the market making environment"

12/17/08

9956:
Sure, I can see the appeal of that - if you can master all of those things then that is pretty awesome. Are the guys you are thinking of equity guys? I have no idea about that side of the business. Also on the cash desk people will still have options on the books (ahem as hedges of course) so it is not like you will never get any vol exposure. If you trade options on the cash desk it will almost certainly be as a punt on the outright level, rather than a vol trade, and GENERALLY speaking on the vol desk your main risks will be your other greeks. A lot of trades are by construction delta neutral (swaptions often trade as straddle/strangle in the interbank mkt) but obviously you have the choice of what to do with your delta when you get gammaed into positions or trade a package that has delta. You will learn a huge amount on both desks, so other factors should massively feature in your choice (so definitely more important than "shall i do cash or vol?" is "is this senior guy going to teach me some tricks and patiently indulge my dumb annoying noob questions when I sit next to him?" I am by no means knocking the vol desk (i had fun on it) but the question as I understood it in the context of this thread was "what will I learn most macro on", not "what desks makes more money in the market making environment"

Thanks dude. Also interesting that a couple of swaps guys have been in the news for doing well in macro, e.g.
- Platt traded IR swaps at JPM before BlueCrest
- Varadhan traded IR swaps at ML before moving to GS, where he's now head of macro trading
- Head of CS IR swaps desk just moved to Brevan

Haven't heard of many IR options guys making the switch, could be something to it, or maybe just coincidence that the swaps guys are the ones that pop up in the news.

12/17/08

I have also noticed that many senior inflation market makers shifted to PMs on buy side- PIMCO, BlackRock etc...but haven't noticed any swaps guys that have done so (more towards prop trading side like brevan, bluecrest etc. as mentioned above) Could there be a specific reason for this?

12/17/08

9956, great job with those answers

12/17/08

It's structured and reputation-wise as good as JPM. Likewise with JPM, if you get an offer in the Sponsors silo in LFG, then it's a great group in terms of exist ops and reputation. The other industry silos are solid as well, but I doubt that they'll have the same ops as the Sponsor silo.

12/17/08

bump

12/17/08

BAML and JPM are always #1 and #2 in the league tables with 20ish percent market share with #3 usually falling in the 9% range. You'll get lots of live deal exposure at each.

There is no sponsor silo at BAML, the two silos are NR/C&R/FIG/TMT and GIG/HC/REG&L

12/17/08

Check your PM.

12/17/08

Anyone know anything about their Financial Sponsors or their M&A?

12/17/08

M&A is not that good relative to other BBs.

12/17/08

If you're looking for exit opps, the groups that do the best in PE at any bank are always M&A, Sponsors, and Lev Fin. Except for Goldman since they don't have a separate M&A or Sponsors group.

BofA M&A is consistently top 5. It's under JPM, MS, and GS, but comparable if not better than the rest. ML M&A was a very prestigious group and the new BofA M&A is largely the legacy ML team.

Real Estate, Industrials, FIG, and Consumer have been seeing good deal flow.

As a whole, BofA ML tends to be more down to earth than some of the others

12/17/08

Do you mean the former ML bankers or the former BOA? Either way, neither has ever had much of a west coast presence. ML was historically better but never a top 5 player. BOA was a bit player at best, definitely the least-successful of the BBs.

12/17/08

The former BoA group, not Merrill. Merrill Lynch only had healthcare and consumer/retail groups in San Francisco, as far as I know with the tech group in Palo Alto.

If anybody else knows about the BoA group, I'd appreciate whatever knowledge you have. Thanks.

12/17/08

bump

12/17/08

Its a decent group that does smaller deals than the rest of the BB's that compete in the area. Should be getting better deal flow once the market picks back up (and BOA has the books for large-scale underwriting again). Also, most of the ML sector groups do their own M&A on the West Coast (meaning that the merged entities might end up having less deal flow through the legacy BOA group).

None of what I have written is first-hand knowledge, so if anyone else could weigh in that would be good

12/17/08

M&A, Lev Fin, Healthcare, FIG, Real Estate

12/17/08

LevFin at ML is not good.

FIG/Healthcare are very good
M&A is 2nd tier

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12/17/08
<span class=keyword_link><a href=/finance-dictionary/what-is-the-bulge-bracket-BB rel=nofollow>BB</a></span>.MandA.3rdyear:

LevFin at ML is not good.

FIG/Healthcare are very good
M&A is 2nd tier

hahahahah!

12/17/08

M&A is not 2nd tier....i'd say it's right up there after MS M&A (GS doens't have a separate group)

12/17/08

Sponsors group is good at ML as well.

12/17/08

Every time ML Lev Fin is mentioned you jump all over it, but you have nothing to back it up.

12/17/08

Sorry for the bump, but also.. any idea on what to expect or how I should prepare for final round/superday? I've been targeting Prop Trading shops as my career, so I've been reviewing all probability/stat questions ect. Anything I should really focus on or refresh on for the Public Finance Superday?

Thanks again

12/17/08

Cant say much about culture. Public finance exit ops can be pretty good, less attractive than some other IB positions because you are only working with debt. Fewer products and limited work with the equity side of the balance sheet means you may not be as appealing as an M&A or leveraged finance analyst if you are trying to go into PE or something of that nature.

Study up on bond math, yield curves, know what public finance is and who they work with. Pay +Bonus is comparable to other IB analysts maybe 80 - 90%. You may have slightly shorter hours but not by much.

Do a search for "public finance" on here, you will find similar information.

12/17/08

bump

12/17/08

bump

12/17/08

FIG, Healthcare, M&A, CorpFin

12/17/08

M&A and CorpFin

12/17/08

Will I get dinged by making a minor error on ML's phone interview? It was in calculating FCF for DCF analysis. I left out the CAPEX.

12/17/08

in the large scheme of things, that can be permissible if your interviewer really liked you. but in terms of calculating FCF, capEx is hugely important.

12/17/08

Anyone going to MLs super day next week?

12/17/08

When did you get the invite for super day? It's on Thursday right?

12/17/08

ill be there

  • b
  •  12/17/08

It's also Merrill's last superday... Reliable inside source told me that 60 candidates have been invited; looking to take significantly less than that though.

12/17/08

I got my invite yesterday afternoon. I would assume ML has done at least 2 superdays, so chances are slim from that 60, but that is kind of expected from any BB superday.

12/17/08

there were already two superdays in january, with around 30 people each

12/17/08

The OP's question was in reference to top groups at ML.

Here are a few points to consider:

  1. If you got an offer at ML, or any top bank for that matter, great job. If you are interested in banking, you've earned yourself a great start...
  2. ...with that said, interest is the key. The top group for each candidate is unique. To some people working in Corp Fin will not be as interesting or rewarding as working in a Tech group.

Suffice to say, all of ML's groups are solid. Think about what you want to do, and chances are that you will be more content and successful.

PLEASE DONT CHANGE EXCEL SHORTCUTS!!!

12/17/08

Energy is primarily in Houston, whereas Power is in NYC.

As for the strongest groups, I think they are all pretty solid, but on the coverage side, Healthcare, TMT and Industrials are good from what I know.

12/17/08

Healthcare used to be strong until Tom Davidson and Alan Hartman left after they advised on the PFE/WYE deal.

12/17/08

Thanks for the insight...if I want to work in Energy PE in Houston down the road, would the Energy group in NY be my best bet? Or should I focus on a product group..M&A or FS?

12/17/08

What have some of you guys heard about BAML's TMT group?

12/17/08

If you want Energy PE, then the Energy group in Houston would be the obvious choice, bigcheese. There are only about a half a dozen energy bankers in NY, almost non-existent. Energy & Power are linked as a group, but Power is based out of NY with the Energy team based out of Houston.

12/17/08

Well my offer is for NY so I'm just trying to figure out what is the best out of my options. I suppose I'll try and get a FT offer in Houston

12/17/08

at the analyst or associate level?
TMT is no good
only groups i'd even consider at BAML are healthcare, LevFin and FS

12/17/08
mlx2286:

at the analyst or associate level?
TMT is no good
only groups i'd even consider at BAML are healthcare, LevFin and FS

please explain why you think TMT at BAML is "no good"? Are you simply a college kid who thinks he knows about banking?

12/17/08

analyst level...this is for a summer position

12/17/08

From his past posts, it looks like he worked at BAML. Maybe he was in TMT and had a bad experience?

12/17/08

go for the atm group at Bank of America

12/17/08

Yeah maybe, but I'd like to know why he thinks that group sucks because my understanding is a bit different, though I could be wrong I suppose.

12/17/08

M&A is considered one of the top groups at BAML (as with many BBs). Also, I've heard that BAML is very strong in LevFin.

That said, the structure of IBD at BAML for junior bankers may be about to change, and group placement could become less critical. If the plan goes through, it sounds like analysts will be rotated amongst groups. I have no insight on this issue other than what was in an earlier thread, but perhaps others can chime in. Something to at least be aware of...

//www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/how-bofas-layoffs-cou...

12/17/08

1) Lev fin
2) Fin sponsors
2) M&A
3) Industrials
3) Consumer
4) Nat Res (or whatever they call the energy group)

Should note, I'd def. try to get into one of the three product groups I listed. The s**t I've read about what they're trying to do w/ the coverage groups sounds like a disaster, would try to avoid.

Ace all your PE interview questions with the WSO Private Equity Prep Pack: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide/private-equit...

12/17/08
Stringer Bell:

1) Lev fin
2) Fin sponsors
2) M&A
3) Industrials
3) Consumer
4) Nat Res (or whatever they call the energy group)

Should note, I'd def. try to get into one of the three product groups I listed. The s**t I've read about what they're trying to do w/ the coverage groups sounds like a disaster, would try to avoid.

I would add Healthcare to the list. I can't imagine how this rotation system would work. It just sounds like an awful idea. I have a friend at DB and their associates are on rotation.

12/17/08

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but it sounds like it won't really matter. The Journal, as well as some people I know at the bank, report that they plan to move all junior bankers (associates and below) into a massive generalist pool.

12/17/08
jd-to-ib:

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but it sounds like it won't really matter. The Journal, as well as some people I know at the bank, report that they plan to move all junior bankers (associates and below) into a massive generalist pool.

Product groups as well? Maybe M&A and Fin Sponsors, but cap markets...that'd be a disaster.

Ace all your PE interview questions with the WSO Private Equity Prep Pack: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide/private-equit...

12/17/08
Stringer Bell:
jd-to-ib:

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but it sounds like it won't really matter. The Journal, as well as some people I know at the bank, report that they plan to move all junior bankers (associates and below) into a massive generalist pool.

Product groups as well? Maybe M&A and Fin Sponsors, but cap markets...that'd be a disaster.

Is the generalist pool system for Analysts considered undesirable? Because that makes harder for them to acquire a specialized skill set and knowledge?

12/17/08
Puss:
Stringer Bell:
jd-to-ib:

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but it sounds like it won't really matter. The Journal, as well as some people I know at the bank, report that they plan to move all junior bankers (associates and below) into a massive generalist pool.

Product groups as well? Maybe M&A and Fin Sponsors, but cap markets...that'd be a disaster.

Is the generalist pool system for Analysts considered undesirable? Because that makes harder for them to acquire a specialized skill set and knowledge?

I would guess that it depends on what your personal goals and interests are. If you really like a specific industry, and want to specialize in it/gain industry expertise, then the generalist pool would be annoying. However, if you don't have a strong industry preference, then it might be good to be able to gain some exposure to different industries.

12/17/08
asiamoney:
Puss:
Stringer Bell:
jd-to-ib:

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but it sounds like it won't really matter. The Journal, as well as some people I know at the bank, report that they plan to move all junior bankers (associates and below) into a massive generalist pool.

Product groups as well? Maybe M&A and Fin Sponsors, but cap markets...that'd be a disaster.

Is the generalist pool system for Analysts considered undesirable? Because that makes harder for them to acquire a specialized skill set and knowledge?

I would guess that it depends on what your personal goals and interests are. If you really like a specific industry, and want to specialize in it/gain industry expertise, then the generalist pool would be annoying. However, if you don't have a strong industry preference, then it might be good to be able to gain some exposure to different industries.

On the surface your defense for a generalist pool seems logical, but I don't it'll work because eventually the groups that are actually getting on deals (speaking of m&a here) are going to need associates and in many cases analysts that have familiarity with the industry involved deeper than one night of cramming research reports and industry primers, which I know from personal experience aren't the best learning tools.

The sr deal team members will start to have their favorites or go to guys they've worked with in the past, staffing needs will get fucked again and they'll have to go back to the previous method.

Ace all your PE interview questions with the WSO Private Equity Prep Pack: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide/private-equit...

12/17/08

Does anyone know when the pooling will take into effect? And will it affect current bankers or just new hires? Also, is it for industry groups only or for all groups?

12/17/08

their O&G group is doing very well with a 29 year old super star VP.
As others have said, M&A, HC, Lev Fin, Sponsors are all pretty good places to be.

Although I'm not sure if I want to be in a group that is close to the balance sheet right now...

12/17/08

A generalist pool....wtf. Thanks for the info guys.

12/17/08

My understanding that the pool will encompass both industry coverage and products. Sounds like a bad idea to me. Something like M&A really demands focus. At least, in my experience.

12/17/08

I think the generalist idea is 1) going to take a while to implement and 2.) fail.

Analyst starts in Group A...does good job. HR goblin tries to rotate him, MD/whomever says "we need bodies who have been working on this stuff, you're not moving him". HR crawls back under bridge.

Externally they might implement it, but it seems pretty doomed internally just based on the way offices function.

12/17/08

Morgan Stanley has a pool don't they?

12/17/08
barf:

Morgan Stanley has a pool don't they?

Yes, but only for first years, after that they are placed in groups. And the politicking to align yourself with a specific group gets pretty ruthless.

12/17/08

note. stay away from LevFin

12/17/08

LeggoMyGekko, are you currently an analyst?

12/17/08

He's just someone who has no life, and makes 100 post in a matter of a week because he "knows" the industry, because he has "friends" who are in it. Yet he spends more time on here then most.... Anywhooo I would wait till someone who is working in the industry, or did a internship there last summer, gives you some solid advice.

12/17/08

I agree, its hard to say. But, I would add industrials to that group.

12/17/08

Mainstreet_Wall: Nope. You're right. I apologize that I wasn't clear on where I've gotten my opinions/facts, but should be careful where you spit your bullshit if you don't have anything to add.

Continuation from my post: Not an analyst. I'm simply a jr SA.

Worked as a soph SA though (not in LevFin), but worked pretty close to them. Now I can repeat what others have said, and say that their jr bankers left very early due to a lack of work, which I completely agree with. I recently went to another BB to speak to their levfin group, and got similar views.

Their work doesn't add as much value as it used to. Their work is primarily being used as supportive material - to give a football field view of the valuations possible, and no longer is given as much weight as it had gotten in the past.

Now, this is coming from a jr SA. And I'm sure others have different views. Mainstreet_Wall... any comments?

12/17/08
LeggoMyGekko:

Mainstreet_Wall: Nope. You're right. I apologize that I wasn't clear on where I've gotten my opinions/facts, but should be careful where you spit your bullshit if you don't have anything to add.

Continuation from my post: Not an analyst. I'm simply a jr SA.

Worked as a soph SA though (not in LevFin), but worked pretty close to them. Now I can repeat what others have said, and say that their jr bankers left very early due to a lack of work, which I completely agree with. I recently went to another BB to speak to their levfin group, and got similar views.

Their work doesn't add as much value as it used to. Their work is primarily being used as supportive material - to give a football field view of the valuations possible, and no longer is given as much weight as it had gotten in the past.

Now, this is coming from a jr SA. And I'm sure others have different views. Mainstreet_Wall... any comments?

Very well put and semi informative, however I would take this only as hearsay, but still something to consider. It's nothing personal Leggo, you prob are a cool kid, but still just somethings about you makes me think... anywayssss I wonder if anyone from ML can comment?

12/17/08